Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[TomKittel]

Tom, I'm looking forward to hearing what you think after trying this with your TT08A.

 

I used the SSV3 / RCF TT08 combo yesterday night at a bar gig with my bluesrock band. The sound was just glorious. I positioned the two speakers right next to me. Similar to what you suggested I put the TT08 on the backside of the SSV3 but horizontally in monitor wedge position. I have no idea how it works but the sound was pristine. Piano, rhodes and organ, everything sounded clear and unadulterated with plenty of headroom. My keys could be easily heard on stage and everywhere in the room, SSV3 3D effect included of course. Pure enjoyment!

 

Hey Al, thanks so much for sharing this terrific idea!

 

Tom

 

To recap my experience of using SSV3 standalone versus the SSV3 / TT08 combo I would say SSV3 is heaven for most keyboard sounds but leaves somewhat to be desired for shining piano sounds. In comparison Al Quinn's combo idea is cloud nine for all sounds including pianos. This combo sounds very much like the studio monitors in my music room plus the added benefit of the glorious SSV3 3D-effect. The TT08 also adds bass and total volume to the SSV3. I very much prefer this combination over just using two TT08 speakers.

 

JMTC

 

 

 

[M_G]

 

Interresting !

 

I use the SSV3 as a "slave" with my Cromachord Keyboardcombo.

The Cromachord is very neutral and has just the right amount of bass. The SSV3 adds the "space".

With this setup my X3 AND SV1 sound great.

:-))

 

[MathOfInsects]

Tom, I'm looking forward to hearing what you think after trying this with your TT08A.

 

I used the SSV3 / RCF TT08 combo yesterday night at a bar gig with my bluesrock band. The sound was just glorious. I positioned the two speakers right next to me. Similar to what you suggested I put the TT08 on the backside of the SSV3 but horizontally in monitor wedge position. I have no idea how it works but the sound was pristine. Piano, rhodes and organ, everything sounded clear and unadulterated with plenty of headroom. My keys could be easily heard on stage and everywhere in the room, SSV3 3D effect included of course. Pure enjoyment!

 

Hey Al, thanks so much for sharing this terrific idea!

 

Tom

 

Just to be a pill: you're describing a $3000 rig. It damn well SHOULD sound good!

 

I like the SS3 because it's small and disproportionately affordable for its quality. If I'm getting into two speakers and the $3000 range, I have lots of options. IMO the value prop of the SS3 is that it is the ONLY one-square-foot, less-than-$800 box that sounds this good.

[TomKittel]

Tom, I'm looking forward to hearing what you think after trying this with your TT08A.

 

I used the SSV3 / RCF TT08 combo yesterday night at a bar gig with my bluesrock band. The sound was just glorious. I positioned the two speakers right next to me. Similar to what you suggested I put the TT08 on the backside of the SSV3 but horizontally in monitor wedge position. I have no idea how it works but the sound was pristine. Piano, rhodes and organ, everything sounded clear and unadulterated with plenty of headroom. My keys could be easily heard on stage and everywhere in the room, SSV3 3D effect included of course. Pure enjoyment!

 

Hey Al, thanks so much for sharing this terrific idea!

 

Tom

 

Just to be a pill: you're describing a $3000 rig. It damn well SHOULD sound good!

 

I like the SS3 because it's small and disproportionately affordable for its quality. If I'm getting into two speakers and the $3000 range, I have lots of options. IMO the value prop of the SS3 is that it is the ONLY one-square-foot, less-than-$800 box that sounds this good.

 

True, indeed. Luckily I bought my RCF TT08 speakers used for a very good price a couple of years ago. The TT08s used to be my main keyboard monitors in stereo. After I got the SSV3 I shelved both TT08s and solely used the SSV3 ever since. I absolutely preferred the SSV3's simplicity and great 3D sound over the TT08's higher audio fidelity. Only when Al came up with his great stacking idea I took one TT08 out of the shelf and gave it a shot. Result is noted above.

 

I still prefer one single SSV3 over two active speakers of any quality level. Positioning and handling is so much easier with the SSV3. The RCF TT series are some of the best speakers you can get but it's always difficult to position both of them properly on stage.

 

The bottom line is that Al Quinn's SSV3 / TT08 stack idea beats a single SSV3 as well as two TT08s. This stack setup is easy to schlepp and it fits everywhere. The additional TT08 is small enough and weighs only 25 lbs. I guess that a cheaper good sounding speaker like a RCF310 or a QSC K8 would also do the trick.

[BornAgnMusician]

Hey Aspen,

The SS v.3 subject is now on the Korg forums site for the Pa4X. All the usual questions. All the audio engineers come out with their opinions. People that actually use the SSv.3 with the Korg Pa4X are happy with it including me.

[BornAgnMusician]

I've been using my SSv.3 on top of an ELX115 for almost a year. I agree it sounds better than the SS or the ELX by themselves. Everybody was talking about subs, but someone started talking about using a bass amp, so I thought 'how about on top of a powered speaker'. I tried it with crossovers and without. I like it best without. I also use a mixer to balance the levels between the two.

[Al Quinn]

Just to be a pill: you're describing a $3000 rig. It damn well SHOULD sound good!

 

I like the SS3 because it's small and disproportionately affordable for its quality. If I'm getting into two speakers and the $3000 range, I have lots of options. IMO the value prop of the SS3 is that it is the ONLY one-square-foot, less-than-$800 box that sounds this good.

 

Agreed and just to be clear I love the SS and use it on most gigs. My only struggle is with the APs which benefit from high-end speakers. So for AP only gigs (i.e, jazz) I've been using the TT08A's. But speaker placement is usually a challenge and I don't get the omnipresent sound of a real acoustic piano. So, the SS / TT08A combo provides the best of both worlds. I suspect an SS/QSC or SS/EV combo would also sound better than the SS alone. If that's the case, we're talking about a more affordable combo. Perhaps even a combo some folks already own.

 

I plan on trying the SS / TT08A combo on a gig for the first time this Saturday (assuming we don't get rained out).

[Al Quinn]

Tom, I'm looking forward to hearing what you think after trying this with your TT08A.

 

I used the SSV3 / RCF TT08 combo yesterday night at a bar gig with my bluesrock band. The sound was just glorious. I positioned the two speakers right next to me. Similar to what you suggested I put the TT08 on the backside of the SSV3 but horizontally in monitor wedge position. I have no idea how it works but the sound was pristine. Piano, rhodes and organ, everything sounded clear and unadulterated with plenty of headroom. My keys could be easily heard on stage and everywhere in the room, SSV3 3D effect included of course. Pure enjoyment!

 

Hey Al, thanks so much for sharing this terrific idea!

 

Tom

 

Awesome!

[cdom]

I couldn't wait... I purchased the SA Really-Mini-Tremor and used it with a Nord Stage2 and the SS3 on 2 gigs. To my ears, it may be better at reproducing a nicer-sounding acoustic piano, compared to the SS3 matched with the B1200 (I now have both subs). When I have some free time in my home studio, I will A/B both subs and share my thoughts.

[Mjazz]

OT (not Spacestation) ... A question for you Seismic Audio Really-Mini-Tremor sub users: Does it have enough oomph to use for playing left-hand bass, which I occasionally need to do (CP4, small jazz gigs and jams; EV ZxA1s)? Thanks.

[Doerfler]

When I have some free time in my home studio, I will A/B both subs and share my thoughts.

looking forward to that. I have a Really-Mini-Tremor as I eschewed the Behringer sub. Won't be purchasing another sub, but would be curious.

[Doerfler]

OT (not Spacestation) ... A question for you Seismic Audio Really-Mini-Tremor sub users: Does it have enough oomph to use for playing left-hand bass, which I occasionally need to do (CP4, small jazz gigs and jams; EV ZxA1s)? Thanks.

 

can't say for sure but I would think not. Spend US $30.00 more (that's all) and get a Mini Tremor. It's a 12" speaker instead of a 10" speaker and a louder amp. Of course it's bigger and a little heavier but I think you will be happier based on your application.

[Mjazz]

OT (not Spacestation) ... A question for you Seismic Audio Really-Mini-Tremor sub users: Does it have enough oomph to use for playing left-hand bass, which I occasionally need to do (CP4, small jazz gigs and jams; EV ZxA1s)? Thanks.

 

can't say for sure but I would think not. Spend US $30.00 more (that's all) and get a Mini Tremor. It's a 12" speaker instead of a 10" speaker and a louder amp. Of course it's bigger and a little heavier but I think you will be happier based on your application.

 

Thanks. That size/weight gain is what I'm hoping (probably unrealistically) to avoid ... 43 lbs. vs. 27 lbs.

[Doerfler]

Thanks. That size/weight gain is what I'm hoping (probably unrealistically) to avoid ... 43 lbs. vs. 27 lbs.

 

I hear you, but yes that extra 16 pounds is going to deliver a lot more of the bottom end you are seeking.

[MathOfInsects]

I hear you, but yes that extra 16 pounds is going to deliver a lot more of the bottom end you are seeking.

 

On me it goes right around the middle.

[cphollis]

I'm going to try the K8 + SSv3 combo next week, and hopefully report back here. A K8 has excellent dispersion, and is a featherweight to carry.

 

Just to be clear, I am not in need of extra bass. For what I do, the SSv3 (and the K8) have more than enough bass.

[Danny Linguini]

OT (not Spacestation) ... A question for you Seismic Audio Really-Mini-Tremor sub users: Does it have enough oomph to use for playing left-hand bass, which I occasionally need to do (CP4, small jazz gigs and jams; EV ZxA1s)? Thanks.

 

Obviously, when it comes to subs, bigger is usually better. It depends on how much more oomph you need/want. I believe Aspen has gotten by with a whole 4-piece through his SS3 and a hi-fi sub. The really-mini-tremor should give you more bottom than that. It's not plaster-shattering thump, but it definitely fills out the low end very nicely, enough to make a difference between my drum machine sounding good or not. Unfortunately I can't tell you in a wordy post if that's enough for what you need.

[MPN21]

OT (not Spacestation) ... A question for you Seismic Audio Really-Mini-Tremor sub users: Does it have enough oomph to use for playing left-hand bass, which I occasionally need to do (CP4, small jazz gigs and jams; EV ZxA1s)? Thanks.

 

Obviously, when it comes to subs, bigger is usually better. It depends on how much more oomph you need/want. I believe Aspen has gotten by with a whole 4-piece through his SS3 and a hi-fi sub. The really-mini-tremor should give you more bottom than that. It's not plaster-shattering thump, but it definitely fills out the low end very nicely, enough to make a difference between my drum machine sounding good or not. Unfortunately I can't tell you in a wordy post if that's enough for what you need.

I am also trying to decide between the Really-Mini-Tremor and the Mini-Tremor. The Mini-Tremor is a little bigger than the other one. Yes, 27 lbs vs 43 lbs, but I am thinking that it is only 1 pound more than CPS. I am waiting for Aspen's thoughts on the Mini-Tremor as he said he was getting one.

[Aspen]

I am also trying to decide between the Really-Mini-Tremor and the Mini-Tremor. The Mini-Tremor is a little bigger than the other one. Yes, 27 lbs vs 43 lbs, but I am thinking that it is only 1 pound more than CPS. I am waiting for Aspen's thoughts on the Mini-Tremor as he said he was getting one.

 

Feeling the need to chime about now, w/ my 'sub chapter'; my misadventures with the 'Really' Mini Tremor.

 

It started out with the best intentions, a bit of this mega thread initiated R&D GAS curiosity. I though I'd buy a Mini Tremor to see if it could possibly be a better match for our SS3 than the Behringer B1200 (which as many of you may know I bought awhile ago, also as a R&D project...more on that later).

 

I had been intrigued by several positive reports here on the 'Home Thread" touting the Mini Tremor, and if it could cut the gig then I liked the size and cost reduction over the B1200.

 

My mistake was that when I went to the Seismic Audio site to pull the trigger on the Mini, I saw the 'Really' Mini and thought; wow, even smaller size and weight....and with just slightly less power (250RMS). Also, I had been using HiFi 10" sub that did the job, with even less power (100RMS)...so I thought "why not?".

 

So instead of the Mini, I bought a 'Really Mini". Ooops.

 

It arrived 2 weeks ago and it took me a few days before I found time to take it into the studio and do a serious evaluation. And I have to say guys, I was underwhelmed.

 

I even called and spoke with a very nice guy at SA. I think we eventually came to the same conclusion; not a good fit for our SS3. My Best Buy Sony HiFi 100wt 10" sub was louder, and lower...and retailed for $100! (but of coarse, no handle, not made for travel...and certainly not 'cool'.

 

The problem I encountered was having to crank it full up, even dial up it's low pass (extend the HF fully) all the way. But almost nothing was noticeable when I plugged it in/out...it was barely audible. I thought; maybe it's a defective unit. So I called SA customer service.

 

During my rather long conversation with the nice SA tech, trying to get some basic specs like input sensitivity and frequency response (they offered little on the website and didn't really give me much over the phone). Finally I was able to confirm what I thought I was hearing; it takes a much stronger preamp level signal (than our SS3 delivers) to drive it to full power. Maybe their sub's input sensitivity is compatible with their other products, but not with our SS3.

 

But also, and perhaps more disappointing for me, IMHO; it 'Really' lacks low end! When I tried a mixer in between to give it more level than I was getting from the SS3 SUB output, it got louder and in better balance to the SS3 level BUT, it didn't really shake my booty! I thought it's not got much below 80Hz, and to my ears it rolled off fairly sharp around 80Hz. It's resonate frequency was fairly high too for a 'sub', which felt like 100Hz.

 

Back to my talk with their tech. After asking for some input sensitivity specs and/or Frequency Response curves...as there were none on their site...he said he wasn't sure about 'levels', but he had recently 'shot some response curves' there at their offices.

 

After some internal debate (talking to another guy there about "which curve he was reading belonged to which sub") he confirmed what I thought I had heard; his Really Mini Tremor DOES roll off strong at 80Hz, and it's strong resonance peak is around 100Hz.

 

Ooops.

 

Kind of a shocking admission that your sub poops out at 80 Hz! Heck, my SS3 is fairly flat to 100Hz, and it is MUCH louder at 100Hz too!

 

However, while those 'specs' doesn't change my opinion on the Really Mini Tremor, after he described the way they "shoot their curves", I wouldn't put much stock in their test results.

 

I have been shooting FR curves on mics and speakers for more than 40 years, mostly looking over the shoulders of really smart engineers who know what they are doing. And if I have learned one thing; getting 'reality' below 100Hz is VERY tricky business. That's why speaker companies build $50,000+ dollar test chambers...just to accurately test low frequencies. Frankly, testing accurately below 100Hz is nearly impossible without expensive tools, an anechoic chamber and mucho experience! I do not think SA has any of that.

 

Darn, I WANTED it to impress me, but it fell flat. So after a half day trying various ways to squeeze more level, and lows out of this Really Mini Tremor, I gave up and returned it. BTW, be forewarned; I did so at my cost for the return shipping ($48) and took a 15% restocking fee hit too (about $30) So this purchase was not a Sweetwater experience!

 

I suspect the problem is mostly because of it's input sensitivity being comparatively low. Which was helped by using a mixer 2nd main output to get a stronger drive signal to the sub, and balance the louder SS3.

 

But if the common +4dB level out of the SS3 is not enough to wake up the Really Mini, then it's really a non-starter for a SS3 end user. Therefore I can not recommend the SA Really Mini Tremor sub, sorry to say.

 

By contrast, and Apples to Apples, I run the B1200 right out of the SS3 SUB and it works just fine! I am usually around 50% level @ 120 on down...before it 'overtakes' the SS3 SPL level. So no complaints for me with the B1200, except perhaps I feel it overkill; too big and probably too loud to be a 'perfect match'. You must be careful not to add too much sub, but I trust your band mates will tell you when you have 'exceeded your limits'!

 

So now I am back to square one, and thinking about buying a Mini Tremor, for the same purposes. It has a 12", more power, and weighs a bit more (it's actually 1 lb. heavier than a SS3!).

 

However, the SA guy tells more that the Mini's 'curve looks about the same'. But as I said; I do not trust his low frequency measuring methods. In the end, as it always is, I'll just have to 'try one and see'. I do believe several of you already have, so I am pretty sure it will cut it...but I'll have to try it for myself before recommended it to my CPS family!

 

Therefore; I just ordered a Mini Tremor...$219 shipped to my door (can't complain about the price and the free shipping). I hope to give you a more positive report in a few weeks.

 

FYI, if you want to 'try one out', from SA, it will cost you. Seismic Audio is a 'direct' marketing company importing these from China, and ONLY selling direct to end users at what would normally be considered 'wholesale' price. Hence, no dealers will stock them, and if you want to return something, you have a short decision window, and there are 'penalties'.

 

So this is NOT like buying something from Sweetwater, or my Aspen & Aasociates's website (yes, we sell direct too, but with free freight in the lower 48, and return options w/o restocking fees!)

[MPN21]

Thank you, Aspen, for your detailed, professional report on the Really MINI. A good thing that I waited for your report. Sure appreciate your doing all these tests for SS3 users.

[MPN21]

I stumbled upon this sub. It has some pro features. http://www.monoprice.com/product?pg_no2=4&c_id=115&cp_id=11504&cs_id=1150401&p_id=605999&sortby=&period=&rating=&seq=1&format=4#feedback

[hatricklov]

I stumbled upon this sub. It has some pro features. http://www.monoprice.com/product?pg_no2=4&c_id=115&cp_id=11504&cs_id=1150401&p_id=605999&sortby=&period=&rating=&seq=1&format=4#feedback

Monoprice has some decent products. I've ordered some 1/4", XLR and MIDI cables from them before and they're good, hearty cables.

 

I've seen this before and would be willing to try it out, except (like Aspen pointed out with his Sony sub) this seems more suitable for a studio application than being built for the road and gigging with.

 

MPN21, let us know if you end up picking up Monoprice's sub and trying it with the SS3!

[Danny Linguini]

Feeling the need to chime about now, w/ my 'sub chapter'; my misadventures with the 'Really' Mini Tremor.

.....

 

Darn, I WANTED it to impress me, but it fell flat. So after a half day trying various ways to squeeze more level, and lows out of this Really Mini Tremor, I gave up and returned it. BTW, be forewarned; I did so at my cost for the return shipping ($48) and took a 15% restocking fee hit too (about $30) So this purchase was not a Sweetwater experience!

 

I suspect the problem is mostly because of it's input sensitivity being comparatively low. Which was helped by using a mixer 2nd main output to get a stronger drive signal to the sub, and balance the louder SS3.

 

But if the common +4dB level out of the SS3 is not enough to wake up the Really Mini, then it's really a non-starter for a SS3 end user. Therefore I can not recommend the SA Really Mini Tremor sub, sorry to say.

 

By contrast, and Apples to Apples, I run the B1200 right out of the SS3 SUB and it works just fine! I am usually around 50% level @ 120 on down...before it 'overtakes' the SS3 SPL level. So no complaints for me with the B1200, except perhaps I feel it overkill; too big and probably too loud to be a 'perfect match'. You must be careful not to add too much sub, but I trust your band mates will tell you when you have 'exceeded your limits'!

 

So now I am back to square one, and thinking about buying a Mini Tremor, for the same purposes. It has a 12", more power, and weighs a bit more (it's actually 1 lb. heavier than a SS3!).

 

However, the SA guy tells more that the Mini's 'curve looks about the same'. But as I said; I do not trust his low frequency measuring methods. In the end, as it always is, I'll just have to 'try one and see'. I do believe several of you already have, so I am pretty sure it will cut it...but I'll have to try it for myself before recommended it to my CPS family!

 

Wow. I honestly was not trying to mislead in my own assessment of the really mini tremor. Admittedly I have nothing else handy to compare it to, but I definitely find a noticeable difference playing through the SS with and without it, especially when using the drum machine, but also with the lowest piano notes. Yes, I need to turn the sub volume almost all the way up to hear anything, but I just assumed it was because of the level of the signal coming out of the SS. I guess maybe I need to get my hands on another sub to test with to see what differences there are.

 

My sincerest apologies if anybody picked up a really mini tremor on my say-so and was disappointed.

 

[Mjazz]

Feeling the need to chime about now, w/ my 'sub chapter'; my misadventures with the 'Really' Mini Tremor. ...

 

Thanks Aspen! Super informative.

[MikeB47]

I'm confused...should I be looking at purchasing a powered subwoofer or a passive subwoofer? I have a Behringer Eurorack MX 20004A with the Spacestation v3. The Behringer will host 3, and maybe 4, keyboards: Korg Kronos2; Korg TR, Korg Pa3X and a Hammond SK2. Looking for that low bottom with the SSv3 Thanks in advance for any help.

[MathOfInsects]

Powered.

[zaphod betamax]

Re: Really Mini Tremor review.

As I am a synthesizer player /programmer and not an organ/ piano player my expectations differ in regards to this sub.

 

I have quite a few sound effects (usually based on sine) such as "Mothership" that simulate an alien craft take off and landing patch.

 

With the CPS alone, the low end kind of "farts" and their is no low end energy.

However, with the Really Mini Tremor engaged (and I only run it 7/10 volume) and the CPS at 5, the effect shakes my garage in 3D.

 

Overall, my MS-20 and monotribe (in glorious hz/v), My three Blofelds and Sledge 2 all benefit from the Really Mini Tremor.

 

Granted, I have nothing to compare it to, besides a CPS sans Sub, so it is entirely possible that another Sub would be even better.

 

Again with the volume set to 7, it adds just the right amount of bass to my rig, which again is synthesis and not organ/piano.

And as always, your results may vary. Mine certainly do, and yes I have noticed that the rolloff is steep after the low A on my Blofeld.

 

My test setup was an 8' sinewave out of the Blofeld and this is what my ears told me. But for me and the (by the time I paid exchange, $95US shipping, taxes and duty) my Really Mini Tremor cost me close to CDN$500, so my options for return are zero.

(Reminds me of the Maclean and Maclean album "Slightly Higher in Canada!)

 

So, I had best suck it up and roll with the Really Mini Tremor!

[MathOfInsects]

Where did MotiDave's hi-f*cking-larious post go?

[Aspen]

"Wow. I honestly was not trying to mislead in my own assessment of the really mini tremor" ... "Yes, I need to turn the sub volume almost all the way up to hear anything, but I just assumed it was because of the level of the signal coming out of the SS." ... "My sincerest apologies if anybody picked up a really mini tremor on my say-so and was disappointed."

Sleeping Bear, you don't need to apologize for anything! Your experience is extremely valuable to share...as you should. Others may find that for the under $200 range this is enough sub support.

 

I said I was 'underwhelmed", and I was. Yes, you could tell a difference in/out...but only a slight difference. Not enough IMHO to justify schlepping this to a gig. But then again, I had the B1200 there for comparison. And that is MUCH more sub to schlepp, and also much more to spend too (about 1/3 more in price too).

 

My main complaint was that the Really Mini input levels were not a good match for the SS3 output levels. I do not think you should ever run any amp "all the way up". I believe there should be some headroom in any gain structure. I am hoping the 12" 500 wt Mini Tremor will not have that issue, but neither their spec sheet nor their customer service rep could really answer that for me...so I will try one and see.

 

BTW, this level issue can be easily corrected using a mixer that has a second output channel....and I was able to get more level in that way...but I do not need an additional gain stage with either the B1200 or my really cheap Best Buy Sony 10" sub, largely because of the design of those subs with a more sensitive input stage. But now we added a sub AND a mixer!

 

But nobody here should ever feel intimidated to express their honest opinion, and I must apologize to YOU if I made you feel uncomfortable. Not my intention at all.

 

So please keep posting, by all means, I have been enlightened and encouraged by your voice here, many times...thank you!

 

And to all concerned, please take my comments with a large grain of salt! And remember, I am NOT KB player! (and not much of a guitar player either). And should I ever show up at your gig, you would be well advised to not let me sit in, as I am probably the least experienced musician on this forum (but I have had fun TRYING to be a professional musician for the last 55+ years!

[Doerfler]

I admittedly haven't tried another sub other than the Really-Mini-Tremor with my SS3. However, bang for the buck, cost me US $ 150.00 inc. S/H, it does what I need it to do. Waiting for Chuck's review on the QS8 with the SS3, other wise staying put. Budget is blown for the rest of the year.