Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[MPN21]

 

 

Wow. I honestly was not trying to mislead in my own assessment of the really mini tremor. Admittedly I have nothing else handy to compare it to, but I definitely find a noticeable difference playing through the SS with and without it, especially when using the drum machine, but also with the lowest piano notes. Yes, I need to turn the sub volume almost all the way up to hear anything, but I just assumed it was because of the level of the signal coming out of the SS. I guess maybe I need to get my hands on another sub to test with to see what differences there are.

 

My sincerest apologies if anybody picked up a really mini tremor on my say-so and was disappointed.

 

I don't see any motive for you to mislead. I appreciated your post on your experience with the Really Mini Tremor. It works for you and others. To be honest, it might work for me, too, but Aspen is kind enough to make another purchase and try out the bigger sub to give feedback to owners of SS3. That's very nice of him.

[MPN21]

I stumbled upon this sub. It has some pro features. http://www.monoprice.com/product?pg_no2=4&c_id=115&cp_id=11504&cs_id=1150401&p_id=605999&sortby=&period=&rating=&seq=1&format=4#feedback

Monoprice has some decent products. I've ordered some 1/4", XLR and MIDI cables from them before and they're good, hearty cables.

 

I've seen this before and would be willing to try it out, except (like Aspen pointed out with his Sony sub) this seems more suitable for a studio application than being built for the road and gigging with.

 

MPN21, let us know if you end up picking up Monoprice's sub and trying it with the SS3!

I totally agree with you in regards to all types of cables and products by Monoprice. I do 14 hour flight travelling quite a bit and I love using a Monoprice noise-cancelling headphone. It works very well. Some even say it works better than their own "famous" $300 headphone by a company that starts with the letter B. Well, I am in the habit of paying for quality but nor for names. Anyway, if I do get their sub, I will most certainly share my experience here. I did some tests by connecting the SS3 to the subwoofer portion of my Maui 28 by LD Systems, also a 500 watss, 22 pound Acoustic Image Corus, and Roland BA330. I think I got better results with a $50 KHL E 10 subwoofer - something similiar to Aspen's Sony wub. I'd like to have some control feautres on the sub, though.

[MotiDave]

Where did MotiDave's hi-f*cking-larious post go?

 

Yeah, second thoughts ... I usually don't post those, but I write em non stop in my head. I need help lol

[Danny Linguini]

I'm good -- @Aspen, you definitely didn't make me feel uncomfortable or intimidated. I just would have felt bad if I was giving people bad info. Luckily there are others who've had similar experiences as me with the same equipment, so at least I know (think) I haven't totally lost my mind. Yet. But I'm also thankful that Aspen (and others) have the means and take the time to do such comparisons. While I think my sound is ok, y'all remind me that there might be better options to keep my eyes open for -- for those times that I run out of GAS on my own.

 

It's all good!!!!

 

Edit: Aspen, great idea to use a second output channel from the mixer. I will definitely try that to see if I get a little more punch.

[TWB121234]

I also bought a really-mini sub to use with my SS V3, probably at least somewhat based on reviews by sleepngbear. Considering the size, weight, and price of the really-mini, I am satisfied, not thrilled, but satisfied. I probably would not have purchased this after reading Aspen's review, and the addition of the really-mini still doesn't get my pianos to where I would like them to be. However, overall it's an easy schlep to gig, is a great base for the SS, and does offer enough of an improvement that it's worthwhile. So no worries sleepngbear, I always appreciate other people's experiences.

 

I guess now I have to save up for an RCF TT08 A and try that combination (a considerably larger investment). You guys are killin' me, but I love it - the never ending search for a satisfying to play piano sound.

[bjosko]

Just bought a new mixer (Behringer XR18), and are using 2 aux channels to the SS3. Since the Aux are XLR, the only cables I had around was XLR-TSR. Quality cables, but as soon as I plug them into the mixer, the SS3 start to make noise, even with turned down volume at the mixer. Wondering if it are the TSR that are the reason for this ?

The connectors on the cable are sealed, so there are not possible to disconnect the ring on the Jack/TSR.

 

I know the SS3 are made for mono Jacks.

 

Have a gig on Saturday, and no chances to get new cables , but wondered if other have observed this?

The noise/hiss are not that loud, but sitting in my dungeon, it are a bit annoying.

I guess as soon as the band start playing, I will not hear it.

 

 

[Danny Linguini]

I also bought a really-mini sub to use with my SS V3, probably at least somewhat based on reviews by sleepngbear. Considering the size, weight, and price of the really-mini, I am satisfied, not thrilled, but satisfied. I probably would not have purchased this after reading Aspen's review, and the addition of the really-mini still doesn't get my pianos to where I would like them to be. However, overall it's an easy schlep to gig, is a great base for the SS, and does offer enough of an improvement that it's worthwhile. So no worries sleepngbear, I always appreciate other people's experiences.

 

I guess now I have to save up for an RCF TT08 A and try that combination (a considerably larger investment). You guys are killin' me, but I love it - the never ending search for a satisfying to play piano sound.

 

If your set-up allows, you really need to try pumping a signal straight into your sub from a aux out on the mixer. Wow, what a difference.

[TWB121234]

Thanks sleepngbear I will try that. I use a little Mackie 8 channel. I was wondering if an aux send would work.

[jazzpiano88]

I just received SS3.0 today and here are a few first impressions.

 

1. Hooked it up in home studio. Not impressed but my existing bar is way too high with everything in stereo already with good amp and speakers. I'm used to it sounding as sweet as possible. I know this is an unrealistic comparison, but just to say the SS will in no way compete with a decent stereo monitoring system if that is what you want it to replace for your own personal sound on stage (e.g. mixer + dedicated stereo brick amp + 2 full range 15" speaker cabs).

 

2. Expectations tempered..... re-assess...

 

- Stereo field on Sk1 Organ is pretty good. I think I could gig with that.

 

- AP's sound horrendous (Yamaha CP300). So boxy/honky at the same Sk1 settings to be almost unusable. Adjusted EQ's on AP and SS side to eventually sound ok at low volumes (cutting mids). Not sure how I would deal with it at a live performance).

 

Now I understand why people are trying to figure out how to combine with with higher quality speakers to overcome the fidelity shortcomings required for AP.

 

Not sure if I'll keep it. My next live gig will determine. I Apologize if this is late to the party with all of the prior commentary. I kind of completely agree with one of the early reviewers a few hundred pages ago in 2014 who sent his unit back during one of the early production shortages. To much tweaking required to make it work beyond a Leslie replacement.

 

 

[drawback]

The goal for APs is to make them sound like there's a piano in the room. Not like they're coming out of a studio mix or headphones in stereo. In the room. Takes a bit of work and perspective.

[Doerfler]

Gospel truth from drawback.

[Danny Linguini]

The goal for APs is to make them sound like there's a piano in the room. Not like they're coming out of a studio mix or headphones in stereo. In the room. Takes a bit of work and perspective.

 

I was just fiddling with mine earlier tonight in my office/studio with the CP-4 through the SS and really mini tremor, and after just a little tweaking of the sub I got exactly this. Not quite as crystal clear as the Mackie studio monitors, but every little nuance made it very easy to imagine it was a real grand in the room. I usually don't like a PA in that little area, but once I had it set to where I liked it (which took all of two tries), I couldn't stop playing.

[Raymb1]

When I first got the SS3 it didn't take too long to set it up correctly. First impression that my wife and I got was that there was a real piano in the room. Not at all stereo but more a 3D sound. I play mostly small venues, jazz, standards and iRealPro for accompaniment. Using a small mixer for bass and drums I get more bass than I need.

[TomKittel]

- AP's sound horrendous (Yamaha CP300). So boxy/honky at the same Sk1 settings to be almost unusable. Adjusted EQ's on AP and SS side to eventually sound ok at low volumes (cutting mids). Not sure how I would deal with it at a live performance).

 

 

New speakers need to wear in for a couple of hours before you can really judge their fidelity. While I agree that AP sounds are a bit of a challenge for the SSV3 (which is true for most PA speakers) it definitely doesn't sound horrendous.

[cphollis]

 

- AP's sound horrendous (Yamaha CP300).

 

 

I've been gigging with mine for quite a while. I rely heavily on AP sounds, but am no jazz player. From Seasons 4-7, a replay of community findings re AP sounds?

 

If you're using it in a small venue or as a nearfield monitor, proper positioning really helps. Many of us use a small amp stand, lay the SSv3 horizontally, and aim the 8" driver at either the floor (small venue) or aim it to the rear (really small venue).

 

When the 8" is aimed at the floor, sound bounces, which helps with the bloom. When the 8" is aimed at the rear, same thing only more so. Don't worry, you'll have plenty of volume. My guitar buddies always point out that I'm setting up my amp "wrong", but it works surprisingly well to improve AP clarity. Strange, but true.

 

What you don't want to do is plop the SSv3 three feet from you and aim it at your ears. That can sound like @ss. Consistent reports that what you hear up close isn't what everyone else hears (smooth, balanced, presence, etc.)

 

I play with largely a flat EQ, but select my piano voices judiciously. The more "bite" in the piano voice (attack and upper harmonics), the better. I even layer in a bit of DX7 for extra help. I stay away from the deep, sonorous piano voices. A smudge of light stereo chorus or reverb helps bring out the 3D effect.

 

That being said, if you're playing AP-heavy jazz all night, you might want to spring extra bucks for a pair of those RCF TT08a units everyone loves. I have technically "better" speakers in my inventory, but I keep coming back to the SSv3 unless it's a special situation.

 

Those hybrid setups you saw a few pages back actually work quite well, but at the expense of another piece of gear. I played that setup at a party as part of a trio just because I was curious, and it was a nice balance all around. But the extra piece could have stayed home as well.

 

Agree with TomKittel about speaker break in. Mine loosened up after a few gigs. I saw the same effect when I got my second one.

 

We do have more than a few folks on this board who've tried the SSv3 and concluded "not for me". I see a much larger group who've tried it, and said "yup, that's for me".

 

Compared to reasonable alternatives, I think it does the job and does it well. The only setup I have that's better is a pair of very high end self-powered PA speakers that I position in the back corner on each side of the stage. I only get to hear half of it, as I'm off to the side, but everyone else gets a full-deal stereo sound stage. Works well for, say, an outdoor venue with no reflective surfaces (although I've tried the SSv3 in that environment, and it did surprisingly well).

 

The two approaches aren't even remotely comparable in terms of cost and complexity.

 

Best of luck!

 

-- Chuck

 

 

[jazzpiano88]

- AP's sound horrendous (Yamaha CP300).

I've been gigging with mine for quite a while. I rely heavily on AP sounds, but am no jazz player. From Seasons 4-7, a replay of community findings re AP sounds?

Thanks for the summary and suggestions! Here at home I did quite a bit of experimentation with positioning, angling, etc. As I said, I eventually got the AP to sound ok (non horrendous) with EQ but I'll try your suggestions as well.

 

I'm looking forward to hearing how it sounds with the band.

[cedar]

On a somewhat separate note: I've struggled at a couple of recent gigs with getting a sound I'm content with when playing he Rhodes/tine patches on the CP4 (connected through a small Yamaha mixer).

 

Basically, I am finding the overall sound to be a bit shrill - especially in upper octaves. I've tried to fiddle with the EQ on the CP4, but not satisfied yet.

 

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Mjazz]

On a somewhat separate note: I've struggled at a couple of recent gigs with getting a sound I'm content with when playing he Rhodes/tine patches on the CP4 (connected through a small Yamaha mixer).

 

Basically, I am finding the overall sound to be a bit shrill - especially in upper octaves. I've tried to fiddle with the EQ on the CP4, but not satisfied yet.

 

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

You might try just turning down the treble control on the Rhodes preamp sim (usually it's Effect A, but on some of the EP voices it's Effect B). The CP4 factory setting on most of the EP voices has the preamp treble up.

 

EDIT > PART > EFFECT-[A or B, whichever is Ctg: PRE] > page down to Treble control

 

Of course, you can go for a more elaborate EQ solution by using an equalizer as one of the effects and dialing in a curve that you like.

[hardware]

I gave the band a pair of QSC K12s after the SSv3.

Sampled Pianos sound fine but Pianoteq Pro using Mic placement editing sounds fantastic.

 

I use IEMs though and the SSv3 is for non IEM members.

Even on a big stage Noon is as far as it goes on volume.

 

I love my 24 driver IEMs to much to change sounds.

But Piano was one since the highest octaves get buried easily.

[Aspen]

Hi all, sub chiming time again...

 

Got in my Mini Tremor today, and also found time b/w sessions in my big room for another quick A/B comparison with the Behringer B1200.

 

As you know, I had returned my Really Mini Tremor a few weeks ago...not because it was 'horrendous' (it was not THAT bad!), but more because I was not knocked out with the input sensitivity and the lack of really low bass response. The SS3 SUB output just didn't drive it hard enough, so I had to run it 100%...or use a separate mixer with a AUX channel drive to bring it up to the loudness I wanted when pairing to the SS3. So I didn't think I could recommend it as a "great" stand alone sub solution.

 

So that said, my first impression of the Mini Tremor on it's own driven from the SS3 SUB output; pretty good! Much better than the RMT! It had more low bottom, and at least 3dB+ louder than the RMT, although I was still running it around 80-100% to balance w/ the SS3 level...but it was easily 'heard'.

 

So I CAN recommend the Mini Tremor as a 'fit' to the SS3, if just driven from the SS3 SUB output. It is also cheaper by $80 as compared to the B1200.

 

So what does an extra $80 for the B1200 get you? More.

 

So next I A/B'd the MT against the Behringer B1200 (using mostly a few familiar tunes like Babylon Sisters and some others...then some KB demo patches I have on hand.

 

Result; I still have to say guys, as a stand alone partner to the SS3...the B1200 beats the MT hands down. Frankly, it may be worth the extra $80, depending on your applications.

 

Also, I only need to run it at 50% to get same SPL as the MT produced at 100%. And frankly spoken, the bass and lower octaves just sounded...well, lower! To my ears, the B1200 feels strong to 40Hz, while the MT seems strong to 60-70Hz...but the MT may be all you need for APs, or for vocals and guitars as many are using the SS3 thesedays.

 

The other considerations are size, vand cost.

 

The B1200 was around $300, the MT around $220...$80 less. So cost advantage to the MT. However, the MT appears larger than the B1200. But I didn't measure or weigh them today (maybe I will tomorrow...kinda had a fast 10 minutes for this in the big room today, while our client was taking a break).

 

But there is NO question the B1200 is louder and goes lower; IMHO, you get your extra $80 money's worth. That said, I do see why folks like the MT, it is adequate sub support for the SS3, and good bank for buck (I could not build it for that...which is why there are no APD subs!)

 

Last point, which is just me; but I MUCH prefer the B1200's Black Tolex covering over the MT's black carpet. Carpet seems to attract all forms of dust and lint...it just looks shabby after a few weeks on the road.

 

Bottom line (pun intended); I will NOT be sending the Mini Tremor back. I think it will be useful w/ our small stock of SS3 demo amps. And also it looks way cooler than my $99 Best Buy Sony 10" HiFi sub!

 

Just my 2 cents, and well worth what you are paying for it.

[tnelson]

I gave the band a pair of QSC K12s after the SSv3.

Sampled Pianos sound fine but Pianoteq Pro using Mic placement editing sounds fantastic.

 

I use IEMs though and the SSv3 is for non IEM members.

Even on a big stage Noon is as far as it goes on volume.

 

I love my 24 driver IEMs to much to change sounds.

But Piano was one since the highest octaves get buried easily.

 

Hi hardware,

Do you mean that you run your piano sound to the house through the QSC speakers and use the SSv3 as a stage monitor? I'm one of the many here seeking to optimize acoustic piano sounds (Pianoteq) both on stage and out there. Agree that nothing beats Pianoteq pianos through headphones and IEMs. It's virtual reality on a great piano once your keyboard velocity is accurately mapped inside Pianoteq.

[MPN21]

Aspen, thanks for the great review. It is good that we owners of the SS3 have a few good and inexpensive subwoofer options. It seems that for my small gigs even this studio subwoofer can do the job. http://www.monoprice.com/Product?p_id=605999 I complained to Monoprice why they are selling it $10 cheaper on eBay when it costs them to sell their products through eBay. Well, today I foud out that they is a 15% discount for the sub. One question I have for you Aspen is will the TRS connections be OK with the SS3 unblanced outputs?

 

 

Hi all, sub chiming time again...

 

Got in my Mini Tremor today, and also found time b/w sessions in my big room for another quick A/B comparison with the Behringer B1200.

 

As you know, I had returned my Really Mini Tremor a few weeks ago...not because it was 'horrendous' (it was not THAT bad!), but more because I was not knocked out with the input sensitivity and the lack of really low bass response. The SS3 SUB output just didn't drive it hard enough, so I had to run it 100%...or use a separate mixer with a AUX channel drive to bring it up to the loudness I wanted when pairing to the SS3. So I didn't think I could recommend it as a "great" stand alone sub solution.

 

So that said, my first impression of the Mini Tremor on it's own driven from the SS3 SUB output; pretty good! Much better than the RMT! It had more low bottom, and at least 3dB+ louder than the RMT, although I was still running it around 80-100% to balance w/ the SS3 level...but it was easily 'heard'.

 

So I CAN recommend the Mini Tremor as a 'fit' to the SS3, if just driven from the SS3 SUB output. It is also cheaper by $80 as compared to the B1200.

 

So what does an extra $80 for the B1200 get you? More.

 

So next I A/B'd the MT against the Behringer B1200 (using mostly a few familiar tunes like Babylon Sisters and some others...then some KB demo patches I have on hand.

 

Result; I still have to say guys, as a stand alone partner to the SS3...the B1200 beats the MT hands down. Frankly, it may be worth the extra $80, depending on your applications.

 

Also, I only need to run it at 50% to get same SPL as the MT produced at 100%. And frankly spoken, the bass and lower octaves just sounded...well, lower! To my ears, the B1200 feels strong to 40Hz, while the MT seems strong to 60-70Hz...but the MT may be all you need for APs, or for vocals and guitars as many are using the SS3 thesedays.

 

The other considerations are size, vand cost.

 

The B1200 was around $300, the MT around $220...$80 less. So cost advantage to the MT. However, the MT appears larger than the B1200. But I didn't measure or weigh them today (maybe I will tomorrow...kinda had a fast 10 minutes for this in the big room today, while our client was taking a break).

 

But there is NO question the B1200 is louder and goes lower; IMHO, you get your extra $80 money's worth. That said, I do see why folks like the MT, it is adequate sub support for the SS3, and good bank for buck (I could not build it for that...which is why there are no APD subs!)

 

Last point, which is just me; but I MUCH prefer the B1200's Black Tolex covering over the MT's black carpet. Carpet seems to attract all forms of dust and lint...it just looks shabby after a few weeks on the road.

 

Bottom line (pun intended); I will NOT be sending the Mini Tremor back. I think it will be useful w/ our small stock of SS3 demo amps. And also it looks way cooler than my $99 Best Buy Sony 10" HiFi sub!

 

Just my 2 cents, and well worth what you are paying for it.

[tonybanksfan]

Just bought the SS and have been testing a bit. I'm using it in my low ceiling, open concept carpeted basement, kind of a cozy room.

I'm using the sub out to a GK MB112 bass combo amp so have lots of power available to me if I want. Its a little hard to detect the bloom but I'm not too concerned in that regard as I realize it will be different on stage or on a gig.

I'm more concerned about achieving the best quality sound for my environment. I use a Kurzweil pc3k through a Mackie profx8 mixer with my left and right channels panned at 3 and 9 o'clock. So far I did not like the sound hard panned as it seemed to create more of a reverb effect. The SS is all set at 12 o'clock positions and seems good. I have it angled horizontally down onto a piece of plywood and happy with the sound and quality.

My greater concern is the combo bass. Instead of using the SS sub out, can I get a more detailed bass response using a mixer channel. My keyboard has the ability to route an aux out, so I'm thinking about editing all the bass programs and setups I use to this aux out, but then I would lose all my other programs access to the lower hertz as they would only be going to the SS. I've decided the SS doesn't give me my desired bottom end. I'm kind of new to all the paraphenalia so wondering what alternatives I have? The Mackie mixer does have those 100hz buttons on each channel and it also has a separate mini equalizer.

Does anyone with more experience have any suggestions in running my cables and setting the EQ. The Kurzweil piano programs need access to the bass amp and eq'uing so I need a flexible solution.

I'm not in a band so play a lot of LH bass and I only have the one keyboard. I have no intention on buying any more equipment.

 

Thank-you Aspen for the great service and personal response to my queries and for providing a nice little discount to Canadian customers to help offset costs. I feel a little special when you told me only a couple dozen have been sold up here.

 

[MPN21]

When I back to Monoprice, I saw a $20 coupon for products over $100 in addition to 15% off bringing the price down to $166.99 with free shipping. Just the right time, I guess. I went ahead and bought the subwoofer. The offer ends today.

 

Somebody asked me to post a review if I get it. I will do so, but I invite anybody to give me specific procedures and guidelines so that I can be as obejective as possible.

[tonybanksfan]

Just bought the SS and have been testing a bit. I'm using it in my low ceiling, open concept carpeted basement, kind of a cozy room.

I'm using the sub out to a GK MB112 bass combo amp so have lots of power available to me if I want. Its a little hard to detect the bloom but I'm not too concerned in that regard as I realize it will be different on stage or on a gig.

I'm more concerned about achieving the best quality sound for my environment. I use a Kurzweil pc3k through a Mackie profx8 mixer with my left and right channels panned at 3 and 9 o'clock. So far I did not like the sound hard panned as it seemed to create more of a reverb effect. The SS is all set at 12 o'clock positions and seems good. I have it angled horizontally down onto a piece of plywood and happy with the sound and quality.

My greater concern is the combo bass. Instead of using the SS sub out, can I get a more detailed bass response using a mixer channel. My keyboard has the ability to route an aux out, so I'm thinking about editing all the bass programs and setups I use to this aux out, but then I would lose all my other programs access to the lower hertz as they would only be going to the SS. I've decided the SS doesn't give me my desired bottom end. I'm kind of new to all the paraphenalia so wondering what alternatives I have? The Mackie mixer does have those 100hz buttons on each channel and it also has a separate mini equalizer.

Does anyone with more experience have any suggestions in running my cables and setting the EQ. The Kurzweil piano programs need access to the bass amp and eq'uing so I need a flexible solution.

I'm not in a band so play a lot of LH bass and I only have the one keyboard. I have no intention on buying any more equipment.

 

Thank-you Aspen for the great service and personal response to my queries and for providing a nice little discount to Canadian customers to help offset costs. I feel a little special when you told me only a couple dozen have been sold up here.

I think I over complicated things. If I just use 3 mixer channels with the 100hz button activated for the left and right channel for the SS, and 100hz off for the bass channel then finding a better EQ should be easier. That eliminates the low signals being processed through the SS. So I just need to use a separate mixer output to the GK input and things will be improved,... uhh... I think.

I may have jumped the gun on posting my issue here but needed to thank Aspen anyhow.

If anybody has any input or experience hooking things up this way, let me know please.

Thanks

[hardware]

I just bought the B1200 for some extra oomph and low end.

 

Taking Sub out from the SSv3 is this the way to use it?

If so would this require a TRS to XLR Y cable.

 

If the Sub is meant to send stereo out to SSv3 please let me know.

 

Just want to know the best way to run the SSv3 and B1200.

 

I seem to recall a Taking Gain from my Chain remark a few 1000 pages back, want to clarify...

[MathOfInsects]

Sub Out on SS3 is full-range mono output.

 

The two options are 1) Stereo into sub, crossover at 100, stereo out to SS3, or 2) Stereo into SS3, Sub (mono) out to Behringer.

 

Way back when the universe was new, Aspen indicated that he preferred the latter for what he experienced as better sound at the bottom. Folks here do it both ways.

[hardware]

Thanks, then no need for a Y, just use a single channel on the B1200 taken from mono out of SSv3....

 

 

ANkyuvarymush

[MathOfInsects]

Omenshunit!

[hardware]

Just received my foldable reflectors for SSv3.

www.tapplastic.com

 

Outdoor gigs really need these as stage volume by my mates is much louder from larger distances.

 

opaque black 1/4" plexiglass.

 

3 x 12 x 16 hinged. Rounded edges. Middle plate has cut out for Ssv3 back I/O section.

Bottom plate 12 x 32 angled in to match hinged tops.

 

Never thought I'd get all scientific and shit but these help when you have no reflectable surfaces.

 

Again, I use IEMs so this is for bandmates.

 

90 bucks shipped....