Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[cedar]

I have a gig coming up this Friday. Just me (on a CP4), sax and singer. Singer will bring her own mike, but has no amp. Venue is a small bar. I'm planning on using the SS V3 (and small Yamaha Mg06 mixer) but will not have a chance to rehearse with it before the gig.

 

Any quick suggestions for settings on the SS with singer/keyboard in a small venue?

[Rofox]

You're limiting yourself a bit here, cedar. Singer's mic. is going into channel 1 or 2 (the only two with xlrs and tone controls) leaving you with 3/4 or 5/6 for your CP4 and no tone controls. You'll be bass light unless you have EQ on the Yamaha.

SS3 settings are going to depend on the room but, at the sound check start with Aspen's advised 12 o'clock and "season to taste"

[SteinwayB]

Last week I had a gig and the SS V3 was completely dead; would not turn on. Had to do a 30 minute drive to pick up another amp which delayed the gig. Assumed it was a blown fuse; was not. Faced with the prospect of huge shipping charges to send it back to Sweetwater, I unscrewed the back plate and found one of the push-on wire connectors had come off and was dangling. I replaced it (somewhat loose fit) and thankfully everything works fine. I'm nervous that the other connectors could come loose and fall off as well, potentially during a gig. Perhaps a phillips screwdriver should be part of my gig bag.

[Rofox]

Hi Worth, saw you on the PA1X videos and Korg Forums. Good to see you here.

Amongst my keyboards I have a PA3x and I understand entirely your views. The accompaniments really need a system that can reproduce the lower registers - you've got to hear (and feel) the bass and kick. I, too, was looking for that mythical beast, the all-in-one, easy to lift solution. SS3 goes about 80% of the way and I'm impressed.

Honestly folks, I can understand that if you're gigging with a bass player the SS3 will fulfill most of your needs but for Worth, who's providing solo accompaniment to a choir, and me, gigging solo for 24 years....well we need a bit of "wellie" (Brit speak)

Worth, get in touch with Gear4music, they do a 30 day return, and try a Gallien-Kruger MB112. If you don't like - money back!

I guarantee it will change not only your view but your percepion.

 

Meanwhile, Aspen, if you're watching, kudos! But please register me for a (sizable) early adopters discount on an SS4.

[zaphod betamax]

Just bought a Seismic 10" Mini Tremor for a sub.

Will report back on how it works with the CPS!

[Rofox]

I've read good things about Seismic Audio and this would have been my "go to" but they don't have a European distributor. So it's a risk to import, what with duties, VAT and delivery.....and then if it doesn't suit.....

Eager to hear your report Zaphod.

[zaphod betamax]

 

Quoting Rofox:

I've read good things about Seismic Audio and this would have been my "go to" but they don't have a European distributor. So it's a risk to import, what with duties, VAT and delivery.....and then if it doesn't suit.....

Eager to hear your report Zaphod.

 

 

 

 

It kicks arse! All my sound effects rumble rather than fart without the subwoofer. All my synths have an awesome low end.

The CPS makes everything 3D, but the mini tremor makes it 4D!

 

I'd like to know if there are any placement suggestions for the sub and the CPS, right now I have them side by side, should I have some distance between the two beasts?

[zaphod betamax]

Hey, how about a CPS on a rotating platform. Electricity would be tricky, but it would combine 3D sound, with Leslie speaker technology.

[Danny Linguini]

Quoting Rofox:

I've read good things about Seismic Audio and this would have been my "go to" but they don't have a European distributor. So it's a risk to import, what with duties, VAT and delivery.....and then if it doesn't suit.....

Eager to hear your report Zaphod.

 

 

 

 

It kicks arse! All my sound effects rumble rather than fart without the subwoofer. All my synths have an awesome low end.

The CPS makes everything 3D, but the mini tremor makes it 4D!

 

I'd like to know if there are any placement suggestions for the sub and the CPS, right now I have them side by side, should I have some distance between the two beasts?

 

I put the SS on top of the mini sub. Just seemed like the logical place to put it, it fits nicely, sounds great. Not to mention the nice compact footprint.

 

You shouldn't need any distance between, as the low frequencies from the sub are pretty omni-directional, and the SS does what the SS does pretty much wherever you put it.

[Worth]

Hi rofox . Thanks for your suggestion . Are you saying that I should use the Gallien-Kruger MB112 bass amp instead of the space station amp or as well as the space station amp ?

[timwat]

Hi, Worth,

 

I can't speak for rofox, but I'm one of those guys who uses the SS sitting on top of the GK to provide LF support (keyboard rig stereo outs --> stereo inputs of SS, "sub out" of the SS --> input of GK MB112 Mark 2).

 

I'm guessing that's also what rofox is suggesting, but of course he can confirm or amend when he gets a chance to chime in.

 

Tim

[Worth]

Thanks Tim . I thought that might be the case . Unfortunately I want to try and limit the amount of stuff I need to carry with me to my venues and places of worship and limit the amount of time setting up and breaking down my kit . Introducing an additional amp is probably not the best solution for me at this point .

 

It's shame really as i like the cps for all the reasons previously spoken of . It's a shame the 8 inch woofer speaker doesn't have any more woof !! I have owned stereo systems with the same size woofer and smaller that seem to handle the weightier bass notes much more fully and I am not sure why the cps 8 inch woofer sounds as inadequate as it does .

 

I am open to anymore all in one preferably stereo type amps the good folks here might wish to suggest for my needs.

 

Thanks again for responding .

 

[timwat]

It gets tricky for sure. You're right, schlepping both amps almost defeats the purpose (or at least, one very big advantage) of the light, all-in-one SS.

 

And I can't think of another all-in-one that offers a similar set of benefits.

 

I use to gig two self-powered 8" speakers (DXR8s), and at least one member here (Dave Ferris) sometimes gigs two self-powered 8" speakers (but far better quality, and much higher price point).

 

All-in-ones that come to mind might include Traynor K4, Motion Sound KP 500S. Each has it's pros, but I'm pretty sure each are significantly heavier than the SS.

[MalH]

Another new adopter here after following this thread for the last 12 mths. I took the SS on its maiden gig last to an outdoor big band concert here beside Lake Zurich, Switzerland. I decided on the SS after dissatisfaction with my trusted but ageing Samson powered 12" PA and many comments from the band that they would like to be able to hear the piano better.

 

Last night the SS was on an amp stand on its side with the side speaker reflecting off the paved ground. The source was a PX5s direct into the amp - not my favourite piano sound but surprisingly good with the SS. At home I had been testing the SS with my preferred piano - an adaption of the Galaxy Vintage D for an old E-mu sampler.

 

All I can say is wow - complete satisfaction! All the band and conductor could hear the piano much better, but what I was most surprised by was how much clearer I could hear myself. With such an open sound, I could hear the subtleties in the playing much much better and respond with much greater control of dynamics.

 

Thank you Aspen!

[JPerry]

Another bass amp user here - I sometimes pair a Gallien Krueger MB112 with my SS and it works very well. The MB112 is light for its class, much lighter than the SS itself, so I feel the schlep factor isn't too bad.

 

A word on SS placement, however - if you can use a wall or especially a corner to set up the SS next to, you might be surprised at the difference in bass response. I like to set mine sideways (side speaker facing down) on an amp stand, or even directly on the floor with a wedge under the front to angle the front facing speaker up 20 degrees or so. This really makes a difference, and often I don't feel the need to use the bass amp at all. Give it a try!

 

[zaphod betamax]

I however notice a huge improvement with my sound with the Subwoofer. As I play synth and not an organ or electric piano, I use many crazy high to low sounds at the same time, and I find IMHO that to get the highs WHILE playing a crazy low end booming sound effect.

 

I went almost a year without a sub, and I really can "feel" the difference!

[Rofox]

+1 to all the points here....enjoy.

 

Oh, and Worth...you're already moving a keyboard, stand, bench, leads, pedals and an SS3, would a small bass amp make a significant difference when considered against the improved sound and increased satisfaction you'll achieve. Give it a try. Gear4music offer 30 days money back and if you notify them within 7 days they'll even collect FOC......and NO I don't work for them!

[Worth]

Ha ha thanks rofox . I hear you however I have to consider my boot space and set up and break down . At the moment it's one trip to the car and I stil have all 4 passenger seats for my wife , daughter and two singers . If I get another amp , it's at least two trips to the car and extra time to set up and break down and I will have to lose at least one seat in the car . No jokes about strapping one passenger to the roof ha ha !. Tried that .... Wife wasn't impressed

[BornAgnMusician]

You are not going to find anything small like the spacestation that sounds as good. So if space is the issue.....it's gooding to a long road of experimentation.

 

I'm also a guy who uses arranger keyboards and I sympathize. I have a Traynor k4 and I had to do a lot of modifications to make it sound really good for the arranger setup. Also I have to use a mixer with it to drive the input hard enough to get the volume I need. It is also twice the weight and size of the spacestation.

 

I've tried many stereo speaker setups which always require much more setup time, size and weight.

 

I finally settled for a small subwoofer (which is what the bass amp ends up being) because the SS doesn't really need a big sub to accomplish the bass issue. I'm using one that was meant to be used with small studio monitor speakers and it works great. There is very little more to set up the SS with a small subwoofer. There is a sub-out on the SS that goes to the input of the a sub, a power cord to the sub and you are up and running.

 

I've experimented over a lot of years with coaxial speakers and specifically with the Eminence line and even the 12" doesn't put out much bass. The 8" Eminence is what is used in the SS.

 

[BornAgnMusician]

I don't know your confidence level with changing the internal speaker configuration. That is probably your only option to keeping the small size, sound quality, and increase in bass. If you are, go to parts express and look at the higher quality/price components. This is only a suggestion.

[Worth]

I don't have any confidence really when it comes to electronics. but it is a very interesting suggestion . Is it fundamentally a difficult thing to replace the 8 inch speaker with say a 10 inch and would the cabinet be able to accommodate it ? If I could find someone to do that hypothetically , would they have to consider any other ramifications and if it didn't work, how easy would it be to put the SS back in the original configuration ?

[Danny Linguini]

I don't have any confidence really when it comes to electronics. but it is a very interesting suggestion . Is it fundamentally a difficult thing to replace the 8 inch speaker with say a 10 inch and would the cabinet be able to accommodate it ? If I could find someone to do that hypothetically , would they have to consider any other ramifications and if it didn't work, how easy would it be to put the SS back in the original configuration ?

 

A lot of variables to consider here. #1 is if a 10" speaker will even fit in that cab. Going by recollection, because I don't have my amp in front of me, it's a pretty tight fit already with the 8". If it could fit in the cab, you'd have to widen the speaker hole to get the full effect of the larger cone, which means you wouldn't be able to get the original one back in.

 

Also, when looking for any replacement, regardless of the size, you need to be sure that:

1 - it's a triaxial without its own crossover -- it will need to have three pairs of connectors, not just one.

2 - Each component will need to be able to handle the power output of the three amps as well or better than the original triaxial (100w woofer, 40w mid, 40w tweeter).

3 - the woofer will need to have better low frequency response than the original, or you wouldn't get the improvement you're looking for out of the swap. I believe the stock SS woofer starts dropping off at 100hz -- you'll want to find one that's rated down to 50hz (or even lower, if there is such a thing in a 8" instrument triaxial speaker).

 

That's all I can think of at the moment, but you'd need to find something that meets all those criteria to make it worth your while. There could be more to take into consideration that somebody with more of an engineering mind might be able to add.

 

Considering all the research Aspen has done on this before settling on the component he did (which I believe the manufacturer had to dig out of moth balls for this project), finding something that addresses all of these needs is going to be a tall order. Personally, for all the trouble and expense you'd have to go through for something that may or may not work, and making potentially irreversible modifications to the SS cabinet, I'd try to figure out how to incorporate a small subwoofer into your rig, which has been proven to be an effective solution. But that's just me.

[wineandkeyz]

Is it fundamentally a difficult thing to replace the 8 inch speaker with say a 10 inch and would the cabinet be able to accommodate it ? If I could find someone to do that hypothetically , would they have to consider any other ramifications and if it didn't work, how easy would it be to put the SS back in the original configuration ?

 

I doubt you would be able to squeeze a 10" speaker into that cabinet. And as sleepngbear noted, even if you could, it would require cutting a larger mounting hole, which would eliminate the possibility of returning it to its original configuration.

 

I think what BornAgnMusician was suggesting would be to identify a higher priced, higher quality 8" as a direct replacement for the existing one.

[Aspen]

...I unscrewed the back plate and found one of the push-on wire connectors had come off and was dangling. I replaced it (somewhat loose fit) and thankfully everything works fine. I'm nervous that the other connectors could come loose and fall off as well, potentially during a gig. Perhaps a phillips screwdriver should be part of my gig bag.

 

VERY sorry to hear about this SteinwayB, but SO glad you brought this to light for some discussion.

 

The good news is the SS3 chassis is completely a plug and change design, so most anyone w/ a Phillips screwdriver could exchange a chassis in case of a failure...which has happened, but honestly guys, VERY rarely happened.

 

The 4 speaker leads all have a locking plug to the chassis PCB, there are 4 speakers so 4 locking plugs...this system has only failed once, as noted in a recent post here when the crimping of the wire into the back of the plug was not a tight fit, so the wire came out...but the plug itself did not fail.

 

The only potential for out right "disconnect" are the 2 wires that have speaker type "tension" lug plugs that attach to the rear of the AC Inlet...and this is the "disconnect" that SteinwayB encountered.

 

There is a White and Black wire that lead from the backside of the AC inlet to the power transformer of the power supply. If either of these fall off it will be "lights out". I am SO happy he had the good sense to open it up and check (BTW, as long as it is not plugged into the wall this there is NO danger in this), and that he saw the loose AC lead wire and reconnected it. If still loose, just use a pair of pliers to squeeze and crimp the plug so it's a tighter fit.

 

I hope this never happens again to anyone here, but at least you know that it takes about 5 minutes and a Phillips screwdriver to check for this should "lights out" ever happen to you!

 

Honestly, I can't remember this "disconnect" ever happening to a user in the field before. But I have noticed a looser than usual fit on this AC plug myself when inspecting an issue or changing out a chassis. So I have added this issue to QC my check list and also notified my factory to double check this in the final QC process.

 

Look guys, stuff happens. 98% of the times I see issues w/ a SS3 it turns out to be faulty cables, signal chain mismanagement, or otherwise source related...and these are the easy fixes...many handled now by other users here who chime in from their own experiences (BTW, THANK YOU!!)

 

But after 1,000s of SS3 amps sold, it is an unfortunate reality that we will get a few failures for various reasons. On the positive side; these are always assembly issues like that plug that was not crimped tight enough, or the rear coax driver was not screwed in tight enough (causes a rattle)...and NOT design issues (or we'd get 100s of failures!).

 

Frankly spoken, the only design failure was that the back chassis mounting that was not recessed deep enough to protect the control pots with a backward fall event, and we have since deepened that recess so that can not happen again (NOTE: and also suggested a preventative measure for all SS3 amps with the addition of 2 small rubber feet to rear side of cabinet in line w/ the pots to protect the pots in this event)

 

Life occasionally gives us all Lemons, and as mentioned here several times recently, the SS3 is no exception. So for me, it's all about making Lemonade ASAP when that happens. And also as mentioned here recently, I will always do my best to get you back on track ASAP. (BTW, thank you all for your kind reviews on my customer service...much appreciated!)

 

Actually, I prefer to hear directly from you when ever you hit a glitch with your SS3 (or any of my APD products), so I can consult and help correct the issue faster this way. And yes, I know it sounds crazy and expensive for me...but I will often bypass my (amazingly good) Dealer Partner (Sweetwater for most of you) to figure out what going on. And if needed, I will advance replace your amp to keep you in business (NOTE: this has been very rarely required, but it is a welcome relief for you when "stuff happens"...and it is they way I would want to be treated by my vendor).

 

This approach is more expensive for me, but it saves you my user who gave me your support first, and my Dealer Partner Sweetwater, a lot of time, hassle and expense! My reputation is FAR more valuable than any one shipping expense! But more importantly, I can "learn" what happened and design better systems to make my APD products even better. Also, I can give immediate feedback to my Vendor partner (Eminence Speaker Corp...amazing folks too) and so incorporate these "fixes" into the next production run.

 

I can think of several items I have made better in the SS3 from this kind of direct feedback, and also from listening to comments here on this AMAZING forum. Dealing directly with my end users in this manner has been a blessing for me, as a small business owner with limited human assets. So I am most grateful for your continued support and patience as I continue to "perfect the product".

[jpgxk3]

Did it; don't do it! Had the prior ss model and figured what the heck. Used an Emi 10" coaxial which is the "bigger" brother of the 8". Did the surgery to the speaker baffle ( waffle if you ask me) shoe horned the 10 in there and the difference was NOT worth the effort. Grab a small bass amp or sub and call it a day. My current cps will remain stock; lesson learned. These coaxial speakers just don't have the paper to push that bottom, but the trade off is great in my opinion. Using an sk1 with it if that makes any difference to anyone. Enjoy Aspen's gift. I am. Joe

[Worth]

Ok thanks for the advice folks . Will order the Galllien Krueger amp . Cheers

[zaphod betamax]

I'd like to record the room acoustics that come out of a CPS.

I tried omni stereo mic but this does not cut it. Probably some sort of MS stereo with post phase inversion?

 

Thanks

[zaphod betamax]

I researched these speakers. They will not ship out of the U.S.

 

Ok thanks for the advice folks . Will order the Galllien Krueger amp . Cheers

[Ledbetter]

I'd like to record the room acoustics that come out of a CPS.

I tried omni stereo mic but this does not cut it. Probably some sort of MS stereo with post phase inversion?

 

If I was going to record an SS3, I would use 3 microphones: one for center and one each for both sides of the "sides" speaker. I'd put the center speaker in the center, and both sides panned hard R & L.

[Aspen]

I'd like to record the room acoustics that come out of a CPS.

I tried omni stereo mic but this does not cut it. Probably some sort of MS stereo with post phase inversion?

 

Thanks

 

If you scroll back to Season 3, episode 4, you will see my trivia question about what was the 1st most often asked question when folks first hear our Center Point Stereo; the answer was "How do I record that!"

 

Perhaps that was my first challenge too when I started making some demo videos, and frankly spoken I do not think I have ever been able to 100% capture the real life audio magic you hear standing in a room with a CPS Speaker (unless you play it back thru one! :>)

 

That said, and having written a small chapter on stereo recording in my "Choosing and Using Microphones" manual, all of my on line videos were recorded in M/S (Mid-Side), or otherwise known as reverse CPS!

 

I love live big room stereo recording, and we do a lot of that here at my studio (APR)...and most is with M/S. Listen to the Doyle Dykes recordings that show our mic techniques...there are 6 out of the 11 channels devoted to M/S stereo mics.

 

Just my 2 cents, and well worth what you've paid for it.