Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Brettymike]

I think Aspen said the best way to use two would be one on top of the other with maybe the bottom one upside down so both side speakers would be right on top of each other. That should preserve the full stereo effect and double the output. But that would also put the side speakers close to ear level and blast you off the stage. Maybe the thing to do in that case is to raise them both up like a flying PA on some kind of stand.

 

Personally, I think if you need more than one with a sub you're going through a FOH system anyway.

 

Bob

 

I want a Bigger SS#? ......

 

Brett

[Danny Linguini]

I wonder what 2 x SS3's would sound like? , for stereo/sound surround on steroids

 

Brett

A friend of mine who is buying an SS after hearing mine asked that question to Aspen and he said it's not a good idea. I don't know anymore than that. I'm sure Aspen will chime in.

I think you could end up with a lot of phase cancellation if you use two. The front and side speakers in one unit are out of phase specifically to avoid that. If you use two, you'll have exactly the same things coming out the two fronts and the two sides. This box is designed to cleanly disperse two distinct sounds (L+R from the front, L-R from the side) from a single location; if you try to disperse the same sounds from two locations, I can see how that would be less than ideal.

 

The only possible placement I could think of that might work would be to stack them with both pointing in exactly the same direction. I think you'd have less of a chance of phase cancellation in that configuration.

[endlessummerkeys]

If you used 2 you may have to reverse the phase of the fronts and sides so they were not the same. In other words you would have a stereo front and a stereo side and still a stereo R+L and R-L? looks good on paper but not sure about real life!! Kind of gets you back to the old days of QUAD. Maybe we need a QUAD SSv.4?????

[16251]

This is the question and answer by about using 2 SS's I mentioned in a previous post.

 

I have a couple questions for you if you have the time to indulge. Would it be beneficial to use 2 Spacestations? (not as a conventional stereo left-right model, but to augment the sound field in the room).

 

ASPEN: I have tried it and IF They contain the same content then Id advise against it unless it was VERY far away...try and and see if you really think you will need it (my guess is you wont)

[Ledbetter]

Emperor has no clothes? You're not squinting enough. It's a you problem.

[cphollis]

I wonder what 2 x SS3's would sound like? , for stereo/sound surround on steroids

 

Brett

A friend of mine who is buying an SS after hearing mine asked that question to Aspen and he said it's not a good idea. I don't know anymore than that. I'm sure Aspen will chime in.

 

The only possible placement I could think of that might work would be to stack them with both pointing in exactly the same direction. I think you'd have less of a chance of phase cancellation in that configuration.

 

Yes, I would think on top of each other. I think the hardest thing for people to get their heads wrapped around is that we're not dealing with the typical left speaker, right speaker thing anymore. Then again, until you hear one, it's hard to understand.

[mate stubb]

Is it just me, or do the Youtube video demos show little to no stereo effect?

 

I'm listening with a good set of Grados, but don't hear the stereo image get wider when he plays with the knob. I do hear the sound change subtly, but that's all.

[cphollis]

Is it just me, or do the Youtube video demos show little to no stereo effect?

 

I'm listening with a good set of Grados, but don't hear the stereo image get wider when he plays with the knob. I do hear the sound change subtly, but that's all.

 

No, it's not you. The videos don't really do the real-world effect justice. Most eye-opening for me was the Leslie effect -- it's everywhere in the room.

[Aspen]

Sounds like it would, but I hate to spend $800.00 on theory.

David, Has there been a price increase I am not aware of?

 

The price from Sweetwater or Aspen & Associates is still just $749, shipped free anywhere in the USA.

 

And, I don't mean to sound argumentative BUT...we are way past "theory" David! I have 100s of happy KB campers who are using their SS v.3 and hearing stereo patches like never before.

 

Of course you would have to actually try and hear one...I get that. But Sweetwater has a great return policy, and also offer free financing over 24 months (which BTW, I subsidize)....so it's pretty easy and painless to "try one and see".

[Aspen]

I'd like to see this technology in a processor box so that we could build higher power ultra flat speaker systems.

Where were you 15 years ago when I made the old E1 encoder (line level CPS processor), and a host of GT SFX cabs...including a side speaker only so you could place a dual 12" under a JBL 15" PA cab.

 

But these separate component systems were bigger, and far more expensive...so few bought them. If you'd like to build a custom CPS system using your own full range front system give me a PM and I'll send you some info...or also you can check out the archives at my aspenandassoc.com

 

So we already threw that party, but nobody came...

[Aspen]

I wonder what 2 x SS3's would sound like? , for stereo/sound surround on steroids

 

Brett

 

I wondered the same thing! Like setting 2 up as a PA system (with subs) in small-mid size venues ... not sure if any cancellation would occur or not .... I'm guessing none would ... Aspen?

 

While I'd love to double my CPS Sales tomorrow, I have to be honest guys; one Center Point Stereo Spacestation is actually more effective that two. But that is the second most common question I get asked once somebody first hears a CPS system.

 

I know that may seem counter intuitive to what you are used to with conventional stereo speaker systems, but CPS is just different than any other system you have ever experienced. In this case, less really is more.

 

So I rarely recommended using two in a room, with the following exceptions; if they are spaced very far apart in a long room application (then I'd place one on either end), or if two are used to applify different stereo material such as a band's instruments thru one, and vocals thru the other (that BTW sounds REAL good when stacked). I have also used two on opposite ends of a room to do a 5.1 sound track (but that requires a mixer to get the Center back to L&R Front)...but you get surround sound image EVERYWHERE...really crazy stuff!

 

But for what most of you want; a big omnidirectional 3D stereo image that is seemingly everywhere without blasting ears off...one is comfy, while two is a crowd. Here's why.

 

The secret behind Center Point Stereo effect is there is just one single "Center" point of transmission of two electronically altered "out of phase" signals that do not have ANY common information. The CPS encoder inhales L&R, and exhales "Sum" (all the common, or mono parts of L&R), and "Difference" (all the content that is different, or unique to L&R). We label these encoded signals "Front and Side". They each have their own level control, so you can adjust the stereo image for various venues (more width for a dead room, less for a very live venue).

 

Then we amplify these Front & Side signals thru two speakers that are "physically" out of phase so they do not "mix; like ordinary L&R speakers do, but rather they "repel" off each other to enhance dispersion. And because they are out of phase, they remain pretty much unchanged until they reach your ears...where they "come together". That's why CPS produces a uniform "3D" stereo image no matter where you stand in the room.

 

I guess I can not over emphasize how cool it is for the player to hear exactly what his band mates hear, AND know this is what his audience hears!

 

In fact, the farther away you stand, they more the Front and Side interact and "bloom". So the stereo image actually gets better as you move away, it will even travel thru open doorways into adjacent rooms and never collapse.

 

Perhaps more importantly, the stereo image sounds the SAME no matter where you are because there is only ONE "Center Point" of origin. You just have to hear it, I know it all sounds crazy, but it really works.

 

The reason conventional spaced L&R speakers do not work in live performance (and never will) is that they are, of course, "in phase" signals (electronically, and physically) with different content. So by design, they will only produce a very small "sweet spot" where they first intersect. And that's "good news" for those lucky few in the sweet spot.

 

However, that is "bad news" for everone else standing in the "sour spot"! And, no matter where you stand outside that small sweet spot, it will sound different from every other spot. Either to much L, or too much R...or worse you hear a nasty result of these in phase signals mix to create a maze of weird cancellations...and the more reflection in the room the worse it sounds. This is why most FOH sound system, albeit stereo capable, are mixed "mono" so the sound at least remains uniform and intelligible for the larger part of the audience.

 

But when you use two CPS speaker systems close together, then you basically have two pairs of Front speakers that are "in phase, and two pairs of side speakers that are also in phase and this condition will produce even MORE signal cancellations and weird acoustics than a conventional L&R stereo pair would.

 

In other words, "audio caca occurs", disrupting our "Center Point" 3D image magic.

 

Short answer; one CPS speaker is all you need to produce a uniform stereo image everywhere.

 

[HammondDave]

I have a better idea... In Ear monitors for each audience member!

[Joe Muscara]

I have a better idea... In Ear monitors for each audience member!

Have you watched any of the Snarky Puppy videos that have an audience in studio? For example:

 

[video:youtube]

[HammondDave]

I have a better idea... In Ear monitors for each audience member!

Have you watched any of the Snarky Puppy videos that have an audience in studio? For example:

 

[video:youtube]

 

Now That's the idea! That drummer is sick!

[M_G]

 

Hi Aspen,

 

maybe it seems that it's time to design a "bigger" spacestation...with no need for subs or little mixers..

;-)

 

Like this:

12inch woofer instead of the 8inch,

double the power (200+200+80+80 watts)

3 or 4 stereo inputs

 

If you do so, put me on your "reservation list" !

;-)))

 

cheers

markus

 

Maybe it never gonna happen, but it had to be out of

my mind....

 

 

[HammondDave]

For those who really want to throw sound around...

 

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff374/hammonddave/083bb360_zpsd3e60cdc.jpg

[video:youtube]

[dsetto]

wow, great snarky puppy vid. - and that's out of a mac mini, in small embedded window.

[KingstonCrim]

For those who really want to throw sound around...

 

OMG, I remember seeing one of those in a local music store here, must have been in the early 70s. Had black light tubes in it too, IIRC. Great find!

[Brettymike]

For those who really want to throw sound around...

 

http://i1232.photobucket.com/albums/ff374/hammonddave/083bb360_zpsd3e60cdc.jpg

[video:youtube]

 

 

I built this to throw my sound around a few years ago

 

Musical instrument gear (Kurzweil PC1X and speakers) 053 by brettymike, on Flickr

[Bosco Adama]

 

 

I built this to throw my sound around a few years ago

 

Musical instrument gear (Kurzweil PC1X and speakers) 053 by brettymike, on Flickr

 

You could attach a couple of drones to it and have it fly around.

[theGman]

^^^ Cool

[Brettymike]

It's a beast and weighs a ton. The drones would be rooted .

I knew it was going to be heavy , but I had been wanting to build it for years.

 

Brett

[NewImprov]

I built this to throw my sound around a few years ago

 

 

These are my "surround" speakers for my living room stereo:

http://i.minus.com/ibkjdISEfaq93t.JPG

 

They were built by my wife's best friend's stepfather, who was this amazing tinkerer, builder, inventor. In the '60's, he wired his entire house as a multi-zone audio system, with a switch-bay that turned speakers on and off through out the house. He also built most of the amps that powered the whole system, I think they were Heathkits. There were wall-mounted speakers in these exquisite little boxes in every room. These were his main stereo pair.

 

The larger one is about 18" in diameter and has 15 drivers, and the smaller is 13" with 11 drivers. There are 3 different types of drivers in the system, but there doesn't seem to be any system as to how the drivers are laid out. They do sound really good, they lack extreme lows and highs, but project the mids beautifully into the room. I have a pair of Infinity's that take care of the lows and highs.

 

I got the speakers after our friend's stepfather passed away, no-one could figure out how to get sound out of the system, and they bought modern equipment to replace his stuff. As it turned out, the only reason they couldn't get sound out of the whole system was because they had the tape-monitor engaged on the main receiver! They gave me these in exchange for setting up their new system, but as far as I knew, everything in his old system worked.

 

We used them for the cover of the Xenat-Ra LP:

http://f1.bcbits.com/img/0000707333_10.jpg

 

[timwat]

Like this:

12inch woofer instead of the 8inch,

double the power (200+200+80+80 watts)

3 or 4 stereo inputs

 

 

Not to derail the Death Star Speaker turn, but this idea Markus notes above is very attractive to me as well.

 

But, as a business strategy professor, there's a whole lot of "ifs" in that sentence. Managing growth and scaling in a small business is not for the weak of heart. One wrong step can permanently bankrupt a promising enterprise, and introducing the right upgrade product at the wrong time (e.g., in the face of insufficient actual market demand for the upgrade) is one of those famous wrong steps. I am hopeful Aspen continues to make right moves in the midst of the wonderful demand for his existing product and feature set. Full disclosure, I just ordered one from Sweetwater last week.

 

For a lot of reasons, I'd love to see a small company that is passionate about a product succeed over the long haul in the music equipment business. I'm really encouraged in the short term by Aspen's challenges (demand outstripping supply), but we're all old enough to know it's the long term that matters.

 

[HammondDave]

 

 

I built this to throw my sound around a few years ago

 

Musical instrument gear (Kurzweil PC1X and speakers) 053 by brettymike, on Flickr

 

This looks like something from a World War II submarine movie...

[HammondDave]

Like this:

12inch woofer instead of the 8inch,

double the power (200+200+80+80 watts)

3 or 4 stereo inputs

 

 

Not to derail the Death Star Speaker turn, but this idea Markus notes above is very attractive to me as well.

 

But, as a business strategy professor, there's a whole lot of "ifs" in that sentence. Managing growth and scaling in a small business is not for the weak of heart. One wrong step can permanently bankrupt a promising enterprise, and introducing the right upgrade product at the wrong time (e.g., in the face of insufficient actual market demand for the upgrade) is one of those famous wrong steps. I am hopeful Aspen continues to make right moves in the midst of the wonderful demand for his existing product and feature set. Full disclosure, I just ordered one from Sweetwater last week.

 

For a lot of reasons, I'd love to see a small company that is passionate about a product succeed over the long haul in the music equipment business. I'm really encouraged in the short term by Aspen's challenges (demand outstripping supply), but we're all old enough to know it's the long term that matters.

 

This is true. It is so difficult for a small company to compete in this international marketplace.. dealing with foreign manufacturers, union strikes, and shipping issues. Its difficult enough with only one product. If the spacestation three is selling well already, why take the chance with another product?

 

I was speaking to one of the Aspen's partners at NAMM about this. I too suggested a larger model with more power. But right now there seems to be nothing from the competition to compete with the spacestation three. So why take the chance and expand with a new product this soon?

 

Plus you have the issue of cost-effectiveness. I am sure that Aspen and his team tried to build the most powerful speaker system and still hit a price point where it would be competitive in the marketplace. A larger speaker and amp would not only cost too much money, but maybe it would be too heavy to transport. He is a smart man, and I'm sure he thought about all of this when he designed the spacestation three.

 

 

[HammondDave]

 

 

I built this to throw my sound around a few years ago

 

Musical instrument gear (Kurzweil PC1X and speakers) 053 by brettymike, on Flickr

 

You could attach a couple of drones to it and have it fly around.

 

And drop it on the club owner's head...

[cphollis]

Like this:

12inch woofer instead of the 8inch,

double the power (200+200+80+80 watts)

3 or 4 stereo inputs

 

 

Not to derail the Death Star Speaker turn, but this idea Markus notes above is very attractive to me as well.

 

But, as a business strategy professor, there's a whole lot of "ifs" in that sentence. Managing growth and scaling in a small business is not for the weak of heart. One wrong step can permanently bankrupt a promising enterprise, and introducing the right upgrade product at the wrong time (e.g., in the face of insufficient actual market demand for the upgrade) is one of those famous wrong steps. I am hopeful Aspen continues to make right moves in the midst of the wonderful demand for his existing product and feature set. Full disclosure, I just ordered one from Sweetwater last week.

 

For a lot of reasons, I'd love to see a small company that is passionate about a product succeed over the long haul in the music equipment business. I'm really encouraged in the short term by Aspen's challenges (demand outstripping supply), but we're all old enough to know it's the long term that matters.

 

This is true. It is so difficult for a small company to compete in this international marketplace.dealing with foreign manufacturers, union strikes, and shipping issues. Its difficult enough with only one product. If the spacestation three is selling well already, why take the chance with another product?

 

I was speaking to one of the Aspen's partners at NAMM about this. I too suggested a larger model with more power. But right now there seems to be nothing from the competition to compete with the spacestation three. So why take the chance and expand with a new product this soon?

 

 

Exactly. When I first started conversing with Aspen, I had a long list of potential suggestions. And then I realized what he was trying to do -- build the one great thing that met 80% of the market's needs. And do so as largely a solo venture.

 

All that being said, product line expansion wouldn't be the right thing for right now. More distribution of the existing product, new use cases (e.g. small PA), etc. seems more in line. Even though we're all familiar with it, we represent only a small portion of the potential target market. Much, much room to grow.

 

Hey, how often do we get a product that delivers like this?

[HAMEGZ]

I , for one, admire Aspen for pulling off what he did with his Phoenix Rising product, knowing what he has been through up to this point.

 

It does function for the 80 % stated above,I like the Boutique aspect of the SS.

 

I was guilty of bugging him to design and build a matching sub, until I rethought the big picture, so I can understand the buzz, we are not unhappy with what he built , we just want more !!

[Brettymike]

I built this to throw my sound around a few years ago

 

 

These are my "surround" speakers for my living room stereo:

http://i.minus.com/ibkjdISEfaq93t.JPG

 

They were built by my wife's best friend's stepfather, who was this amazing tinkerer, builder, inventor. In the '60's, he wired his entire house as a multi-zone audio system, with a switch-bay that turned speakers on and off through out the house. He also built most of the amps that powered the whole system, I think they were Heathkits. There were wall-mounted speakers in these exquisite little boxes in every room. These were his main stereo pair.

 

The larger one is about 18" in diameter and has 15 drivers, and the smaller is 13" with 11 drivers. There are 3 different types of drivers in the system, but there doesn't seem to be any system as to how the drivers are laid out. They do sound really good, they lack extreme lows and highs, but project the mids beautifully into the room. I have a pair of Infinity's that take care of the lows and highs.

 

I got the speakers after our friend's stepfather passed away, no-one could figure out how to get sound out of the system, and they bought modern equipment to replace his stuff. As it turned out, the only reason they couldn't get sound out of the whole system was because they had the tape-monitor engaged on the main receiver! They gave me these in exchange for setting up their new system, but as far as I knew, everything in his old system worked.

 

We used them for the cover of the Xenat-Ra LP:

http://f1.bcbits.com/img/0000707333_10.jpg

 

Thank you for showing us this , very interesting!

 

Brett