Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[miden]

[Bif_]

Also remember and consider it's energy is dispersed 300 degrees......

 

In other words, the CPS speaker is VERY different, and may take a some adjustment to have the confidence that you are plenty loud in the total band mix...

 

Aspen,

 

Sounds like your design needs the industry to define a new way to measure SPL.

 

Would it be fair to say that your designs wider dispersion creates more sound energy?

 

P.S. I appreciate your invention, business acumen and attention to the details as demonstrated by your involvement on this forum.

 

Keep up the good work and I hope you reap the benefits!

 

Greg

 

 

[mate stubb]

Frankly , particle board is one of THE BEST materials to make speakers out of - NOT solid wood.

....

 

Brett

 

No particle board for me, ever. If it's a wood cabinet, I'll have plywood please.

[cphollis]

It's been said before here, but maybe worth repeating ...

 

Typical amp/PA unit: very directional, stand in front to judge the levels coming out, you figure if it sounds loud to you it's going to be OK for everyone else because sound will attenuate quickly with distance, other instruments, etc. Amp wars 101.

 

SSv3: almost omnidirectional, standing in front to listen may give you lower levels, but what you do hear is what everyone else is going to hear. If you wildly crank it up like a normal amp/PA, everyone else will hear it wildly cranked up and not just you.

 

Hence the frequent requests to turn down if you happen to do that.

 

Bottom line: you have to recalibrate your expectations around levels and what other people are going to hear. If you expect it to directionally blast in one direction, it doesn't do that. It took me a while to get my thick skull wrapped around what was happening.

 

That's why so many people here recommend taking it on a gig and getting feedback from others.

[drawback]

 

No particle board for me, ever. If it's a wood cabinet, I'll have plywood please.

_________________________

Moe

---

About the only thing I'd run through a Roland KC amp is a chainsaw even if it means I gotta get a new chain afterwards.

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

 

Fixed

 

 

 

 

[miden]

Frankly , particle board is one of THE BEST materials to make speakers out of - NOT solid wood.

....

 

Brett

 

No particle board for me, ever. If it's a wood cabinet, I'll have plywood please.

 

^^ This. Plywood (min 5 ply) is the best for speaker construction. Chipboard second (but not a close 2nd), and natural wood third (if ever)

[miden]

To be blunt, I think this whole Spacestation thingy is a combination of imagination (analogy being 256-v-320 MP3's for example), hype and sheep following.

 

There has been nothing in 139 pages of forum thread to convince me otherwise.

 

It's a keyboard amp, albeit an expensive one for what you get, but just another amp. Sounds no different (based on internet demos) to anything else really. Bit like all the hype that surrounded Motion Sound.

[TomKittel]

To be blunt, I think this whole Spacestation thingy is a combination of imagination (analogy being 256-v-320 MP3's for example), hype and sheep following.

 

There has been nothing in 139 pages of forum thread to convince me otherwise.

 

It's a keyboard amp, albeit an expensive one for what you get, but just another amp. Sounds no different (based on internet demos) to anything else really. Bit like all the hype that surrounded Motion Sound.

 

How can you judge a product you never tried or heard? And please spare me with your plywood bullshitting.

[miden]

[Dave Bryce]

How can you judge a product you never tried or heard?

 

You can't, of course. Certainly not one that's a speaker.

 

Miden - this choice of coming into a really popular thread and telling everyone who's digging this product they're victims of hype and sheep should work out very well for you - especially given the fact that you haven't heard it.

 

dB

[theGman]

In the Southern Hemisphere you have to turn the unit upside down to work as it was designed.

Eh?

[Al Coda]

But Stereo Inputs and 300 USD is hard to pass up.

...

Would love to see a Spacestation Sub with an Emminence 12.

 

Or 15" ...

Give a s##t on a bit less portability and a bit more weight.

 

Now, after the last delivery of SSv3s, the thread turns into the same crap than most threads here,- like ...

 

"I want the most loudness and low end from a most portable and matchbox sized lightweight piece of gear for the price of a consumer active hi-fi speaker,- but professional usability."

(similar to: I want the most lightweight and portable keyboard for under 1K bucks but it should do it all, should be reliable for the upcoming 100 years and I only buy if the manufacturer offers a service center in every village around the globe).

 

I cannot hear or read that anymore because it´s so stupid.

There´s no way to change the physics.

Low end needs a larger cone and a larger cabinet, period.

AND,- quality as well as service has a price too!

 

Cannot afford any low priced small crappy mixer from chinese production regardless of brand printed on it (these are the same anyway),- no?

Give up making music and look for a different job!

 

Same Grill. Maybe even small side ports.

Yum-Yum..

 

Yes, that´s what we want,- great sound AND great look !!!

IMO, the SSv3 combined w/ a CPS sub would be a cool rig for some purposes.

When I read what the SScv3 really can,- 100Hz at max., I knew where the limits are.

Everyone should know this.

It´s quite natural stressing the woofer too much when going much lower without using a sub.

It´s also quite natural plugging in different electromagnetic and/or digital keyboards directly into a SSv3 results in different behaviour, may it be by impedance mismatch and/or gain stageing issues.

 

To me, it doesn´t matter if someone uses his keyboard w/ 75% of master volume or 100%, or he used it 3 feet away on the gig yesterday and today it was only 2 feet away but in a corner.

That´s all no references and subjective observations.

I never used keyboards w/ their master volume faders set up less than 100%, but I accept a mid/side speaker performs better w/ reflective surfaces.

 

When using keys in studios,- normally w/ electromagnetic gear you go into DIs and if it´s digital line out, you use a preamp or the line preamp of the console,- right?

With any active speaker, do the same live!

When it distorts and your mixer settings are right,- that´s the limit.

 

For the real large gigs, there should be plan-B in addition. In-ear is common today anyway.

 

A.C.

[Raymb1]

The SS sounds better than any other keyboard amp/speaker I've ever had. I've gone through quite a few over the years. To condemn something without hearing it is pretty dumb. Ray

[Dglavko]

I for one am happy to say "Bahahaha" and bring my SS V3 instead of my (since sold) K4, (since sold) MS145, (still retained) Leslie 3300, Acoustic Image Corus/Coda combo, or QSC K10.

 

But then truth be told I've always been rather fond of of sheep...

[theGman]

^^^ dittos

 

[miden]

How can you judge a product you never tried or heard?

 

You can't, of course. Certainly not one that's a speaker.

 

Miden - this choice of coming into a really popular thread and telling everyone who's digging this product they're victims of hype and sheep should work out very well for you - especially given the fact that you haven't heard it.

 

dB

 

1.

2.

3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTQA0XE5yuc

 

That is just a few...and I did state heard via internet in the post. It was a general comment re the hype and other...was not directed at anyone in particular, did I direct it at anyone?

 

And so what if it is a long and "popular" thread? Doesn't mean someone cannot disagree.

[Dglavko]

Just remembered that Keyboard Corner has a spam(ignore user x)function which can be utilized on demand and wondered how often it is used...

[Dave Bryce]

so what if it is a long and "popular" thread? Doesn't mean someone cannot disagree.

Disagreeing is one thing...but disagreeing without having heard the amp in person is pointless....and calling people sheep when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about is asking for trouble - intentionally.

 

The videos don't tell you beans, either. The process simply can't translate to L/R reproduction. You have to be in the room to hear it. If you'd have been paying any attention at all to how it works, you'd understand that.

 

The "long and popular" comment was an effort to get you to realize the preponderance of people you're poking, many of who now probably don't think a lot about your opinion. Feel free to keep sharing it, though. As mentioned previously - I'm sure that will work out well for you.

 

 

dB

 

 

[Brettymike]

Frankly , particle board is one of THE BEST materials to make speakers out of - NOT solid wood.

....

 

Brett

 

No particle board for me, ever. If it's a wood cabinet, I'll have plywood please.

 

^^ This. Plywood (min 5 ply) is the best for speaker construction. Chipboard second (but not a close 2nd), and natural wood third (if ever)

 

I've made lot's of speakers over the years , and own and read plenty of books about it , and that fine particle board is as good as it gets.

Plywood or solid wood is more likely to resonate/vibrate.

Aspen knows all this.

 

Brett

[Brettymike]

Frankly , particle board is one of THE BEST materials to make speakers out of - NOT solid wood.

....

 

Brett

 

No particle board for me, ever. If it's a wood cabinet, I'll have plywood please.

 

Plywood on the outside veneer sure , and then Aspen would be forced to put his price up and numbers made down.

 

Brett

[miden]

Disagreeing is one thing...but disagreeing without having heard the amp in person is pointless....and calling people sheep when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about is asking for trouble - intentionally.

 

The videos don't tell you beans, either. The process simply can't translate to L/R reproduction. You have to be in the room to hear it. If you'd have been paying any attention at all to how it works, you'd understand that.

 

The "long and popular" comment was an effort to get you to realize the preponderance of people you're poking, many of who now probably don't think a lot about your opinion. Feel free to keep sharing it, though. As mentioned previously - I'm sure that will work out well for you.

 

 

dB

 

 

I was disagreeing on what I have heard, simple. Maybe if the thing ever got below the equator and people here COULD hear it in person, then perhaps an opinion could change. But the guy making it has stated he has no interest in getting it down here, so all there is to go on is what is heard online.

 

Whether folks think anything good or bad about my opinion is an issue for them. We all disagree with someone along the journey.

[mak1457]

So were original Leslie's made out of real wood or plywood?

 

As far as the SS is concerned, I'm a satisfied customer (this is my first amp so I'm not picky). It has plenty of power for me and any distortion comes from what I'm doing with my board, not the amp itself.

[miden]

Frankly , particle board is one of THE BEST materials to make speakers out of - NOT solid wood.

....

 

Brett

 

No particle board for me, ever. If it's a wood cabinet, I'll have plywood please.

 

Plywood on the outside veneer sure , and then Aspen would be forced to put his price up and numbers made down.

 

Brett

 

A lot of the really well made sub boxes and speaker cabinets were all ply..seven and nine ply for the sub bins I used to go around with...weighed a ton, but no resonance and they pushed some pretty big sub air!

 

The early Mackie speakers and RCF speakers were ply as well afaik...

 

Maybe modern MDF and/or chipboard is better :idk

[Dave Bryce]

Maybe if the thing ever got below the equator and people here COULD hear it in person, then perhaps an opinion could change. But the guy making it has stated he has no interest in getting it down here, so all there is to go on is what is heard online.

 

...that, and trusting that some of the people on this forum who have actually heard the Spacestation know what they're talking about. That's supposed to be one of the main functions of forums like this.

 

 

The difference between you and I here (besides the fact that I've had one for months) is that I actually know the guy who makes it, and have discussed his sales plan with him...and he'd quite like to get it pretty much everywhere that there are keyboard players. Including Australia.

 

However, not everything falls into place immediately all the time - finding the right partner might take a minute....and it's a better idea to take time to get it right than do it wrong for the sake of making it happen right away.

 

dB

[cphollis]

I was one of the early adopters.

 

Not a sheep, nor a victim of hype, just intellectually curious with what Aspen had come up with. I knew the limitations of single amps, and stereo self-powered PA units. I have bought and sold more amp gear over the years than I care to remember.

 

I had never heard the SSv3 live before I bought one. A leap of faith that paid off.

 

For my small-to-midsize gigs, it's my go-to amp now. I have other choices in the inventory (see sig below), but for what it does there's nothing like it. It isn't perfect, but it's pretty damn good -- a product you can get enthusiastic about.

 

Yeah, it's mostly a US thing at present. Aspen is working it, but those things take time.

[Ledbetter]

To be clear about the frequency attenuation issue, I think it would improve the product if inserting a plug into the (full range) subwoofer jack reduced or eliminated frequencies below 150 hz going to the internal speakers.

 

The one I received is built like a tank, as the saying goes, with no rattles or loose screws.

[KingstonCrim]

I'm using mainstage into an apogee duet into the SS.

 

This caught my eye as I also have the Duet and am starting to spend more time working with Mainstage. I'm stoked to try it all out when my SS arrives here, hopefully by end of this month. So are you running your cables straight out of the Duet's breakaway connectors into the SpaceStation inputs? I was wondering here whether to insert either a small mixer or a Radial Pro2 DI into the chain to feed the SS. Maybe I'm just overthinking it?

[Aspen]

Are all the people reporting distortion in SS get the 2nd batch? Aspen mentioned that some of components were changed from first go round. If people from first batch also getting distortion then I guess my premise has no merit - never mind.

 

OK, OK, after that posted sound bite I heard yesterday with the awful sounding SS KB distortion samples starting w/ the Level set at 2 o'clock and higher, albeit without any SPL reference to calibrate, and then hearing some speculation that perhaps there was something wrong with this latest run...I decided to do some extensive listening tests today.

 

I am always open to the possibility that perhaps something MAY have gone amiss in the latest run.

 

S I decided to test this subjectively and also I have sent an amp from this latest run out to our test lab for calibrated measurement comparison with the first two runs.

 

For my subjective tests today, I enlisted one of my APR engineers to join me, Bill Kaylor who plays bass in our Big and Wide band (seen in our video at the amp show). Bill was also employed by Ray Charles for some time at Ray's studio (up until Ray passed on, so he has VERY good ears I can trust to be objective. Bill is also very familiar with the SS v.3 development, and participated in many of our live studio recordings you see on line.

 

Short story; Bill and I agreed there is no audible difference b/w the 1st, 2nd and 3rd run SS units. I suspect my test lab results will confirm this, although sometime you can measure things you can't hear. Perhaps more importantly, sometimes you can hear stuff that you just can't measure. I am relieved to report that we heard nothing abnormal with the latest run of our CPS Spacestations, period.

 

And, in our opinion, the Spacestation continues to deliver clean, clear sound, with a big stereo image, right up to it's rated 105 Max SPL. This is an amp that has until now, surpassed all expectations by most every earl adopter. It is surprisingly LOUD for a box just 11" wide and deep, 18"tall, and whose "woofer" speaker is just 8".

 

Which brings me to an observation; I think after so many positive gig reports how our little SS v.3 is working in larger/louder applications than we had originally designed it for, competing for jobs formerly held by speakers twice it's size and power....well, it seems now that "expectations have been raised"!

 

I would like to remind you that from the beginning of this thread, I have always recommended using a powered sub for those louder band gigs...there are physics in place when it comes to "moving air" in the lower registers that can not be ignored.

 

I also believe that some of you who have followed my "signal path" set up advice are not experiencing distortion the way others are...who perhaps have not....and/or who have come to expect more SPL than we can deliver.

 

After my listening tests today, I am convinced these distortion events recently reported here by some users are more likely due to over driving our input stage, than from the reaching amp or speaker distortion limits. But to be sure, our speaker does have limits, as any system will, and when pushed beyond our limits it WILL result in distortion.

 

As a designer, setting the impedance and input sensitivity was a "trade off" at best...there is never a perfect solution. My goal was to accommodate BOTH an "instrument" signal level ( -10dB level high impedance) KB, AND a low impedance (+4dB line level) preamp/mixer balancing many instruments. So we had to set our input sensitivty high enough that a weaker keyboard could drive it to max SPL, and yet not be too sensitive so that a higher line level signal from a hotter KB and/or a line level mixer would overdrive the first stage and distort before Max SPL was achieved.

 

This is why for those applications where you are using various KBs, I asked you to consider balancing these with a small mixer so you can keep your signal chain pure and avoid un necessary distortion. Those of you who followed that advice seem to be enjoying the SS v.3 to it's full potential.

 

Frankly, when the signal chain is correctly set with a low impedance line level mixer, or a hotter KB...I have RARELY needed to raise the level above 12 o'clock to reach "max SPL". In my experience, raising the Level control to 2, and 4 o'clock will certainly produce distortion, and not any more volume. If you need more SPL than 105dB, then you will likely just need a bigger and more powerful amp. And, as advertised, the SS is for small and medium venues and applications. And, as as we have read here many times by USERS, it has more often surpassed expectations, than not, and even without a sub.

 

But if you want to play MUCH louder, you should consider adding a sub. FYI, I took BJ's recommendation and ordered that Behringer $299 sub yesterday, which is $249 MORE than I have spent on any of my swap meet hifi subs I have now!

[B. J. Love]

[DanL]

Hello all,

 

My eagerly anticipated SS V3 arrived. Nicely packed, no damage, obviously handled with care. The first thing I do with any electronic audio gear is the quiet test. So, I unpacked the SS, made sure all knobs were set to minimum, plugged it in, and turned it on. Instant hum and slight high-pitched whine! Strange, but okay, Ill move it to another outlet. But, first, just for grins, I turned up the Width control. When I got past 12 oclock, I began to hear hissing. Remember, all other knobs are at minimum. When I turned the Width control all the way up, the hissing was noticeable, even from a couple of feet away. I then turned up the Level control. The volume of the Width control hiss did not change until the Level control was at about 1 oclock. After that, it increased quickly and significantly. However, if the Level control is turned all the way up, and the Width control is turned off, there is no hiss. Only the hum/whine. And, the hum/whine does not increase in volume as the Level is turned up.

 

Now, by comparison, I got out my old (old!) Roland Cube 40 Keyboard amp. I unplugged the SS V3, and plugged the Cube into the same outlet. Turned it on no hum or high-pitched whine! I turned both volume knobs (one for each input) all the way up still quiet. Now, the Cube does have a couple of scratchy pots the Treble knob and the Reverb knob. They can also introduce some hiss, so sometimes I have to whack em to quiet em down. Still, in all the Cube was as quiet as the SS V3!

 

I moved the SS V3 to another room and outlet. No change. Remember, the only knobs not set at minimum were the Width and Level knobs. So -

 

1. Are the rest of you getting any hum and/or whine when you turn your units on with nothing plugged in?

2. Are you getting hissing sounds as you turn up the Width control?

 

I bought the amp to use with three instruments

1. E-drums

2. Keyboards

3. Chapman Stick

 

My current rig is massive (including a JBL 18 inch powered sub) compared o the SS V3. Im definitely looking to downsize.

 

Its true I havent plugged anything into the SS V3 yet. But, I tend to approach electronic audio items pretty methodically. If you guys with great working units can confirm that your units behave in the same manner as mine simply by turning yours on, Im good to go. With the Level knob all the way up, the Width and Mid EQ at about 1 oclock, and the Hi EQ all the way up, the hiss is noticeable, but not particularly objectionable. I can only imagine how loud an instrument would be played thru the amp at those settings. The hum/whine is always there, but again, not audibly objectionable. Its just disconcerting that a decades old Roland Keyboard is as quiet/quieter than the SS V3.

 

Thanks in advance.

I've noticed a slight amount of noise/hum in a quiet environment.

 

Turning up the width control is actually controlling the volume of the side speaker. So of course if you crank up the amp it's going to make more noise.

 

If you were to plug in a keyboard and play with the amp turned all the way up, you'd probably break your windows. I'm sure that your Roland amp, when turned all the way up and the treble turned up, makes some noise as well. My K10 makes noise when I turn it all the way up as well.