Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Aspen]

I was going to wait until after my first gig with the V.3, but I had some time waiting for the Superbowl, so here are a few first impressions. Okay, more than a few.

 

A little background: My first contact with the Spacestation was the Mark II. I picked one up at GC for a blowout price hoping to replace a pair of 1st gen JBL EON 15s. I really liked it - well, the idea of it. It was small, light and the organ/Leslie (Roland V-Combo) sounded great - especially paired with a small pro-sumer Jensen sub I had laying around. But I never could dial in an AP sound I could live with and it simply wasnt loud enough - had trouble keeping up with the guitarists Blues Jr. I returned it. Came across a Fender SFX 200 on ebay and took a chance. Loved it. About 3X the size and 4X the weight of the Mark II, nice integrated mixer, all balanced, decent DSP. Only 80 watts X 2 but loud as hell and clean. Everything I put thru it sounded great. But after rotator cuff surgery, just too big and heavy. I replaced it with a pair of EV ZXa1s. Very happy with them. Crystal clear, plenty loud, surprising bass for a pair of 8, small and very light. So why a V.3? 1) As good as they sound (especially for AP), the EVs just dont match the magic of the SFX for B-3/Leslie. 2) The pair, on their sides in floor monitor position, elevated on milk crates, carve out a pretty big footprint behind me on the small stages I usually play. 3) One less trip from the car.

 

My live rig for the blues band I play in consists of a Hammond SK1 and Casio Privia PX-5S. Mostly B-3 & AP, some Wurli, Rhodes, and a very little clav. My solo act is all Great American Songbook - vocal with PX-5S AP and left hand Acoustic Bass.

 

Out of the box: very well packed, as was mentioned. Excellent fit and finish, looks great and feels solid. I will definitely be adding some sort of corner protection - bare tolex corners get nicked up pretty quick. I did discover a potential problem in the cabinet design - one that could explain the buzz or rattle some others have described at high volumes (not the distortion). I make it a habit to snug up all the screws on a new piece of gear; invariably, I find one or two loose ones with the potential to buzz or rattle. A few on the V.3 took a 1/4 turn or so to snug, however the 3 along the bottom front are impossible to tighten properly. There is a 1/2 inch gap between the grill and where the screws first make contact with painted 1/2 MDF. Tightening the screws, one exited the other side slightly and none of the 3 tightened sufficiently - all arrived stripped. I have not noticed the noise at high volumes, but this could be the source and Im sure will be a problem in the future. Its an easy fix: a 1/2 strip of pine glued between the grill and MDF would give the wood screws something to grip - asking them to span a gap half the length of the screw is asking for trouble.

 

So how does it sound? Out of the box? Well.. I only had a short time to test it when it arrived. I fed my iPhone into a small mixer and into the V.3. Best of EWF. A few minutes of fooling around with the knobs and WOW! Very cool; nice, balanced sound, beautiful stereo all around the living room. Bass was a little anemic - added the Behringer sub that I thought it might need. Problem solved.

 

The next day I brought it into my small office/studio to try to dial it in. It is not an ideal room for this purpose - and 8X12 sunroom, paneled on two sides, glass on other two, carpet, acoustic ceiling, but otherwise untreated, packed with office/studio furniture and gear. I was using the PX-5S and SK1 thru a Mackie 1202. I first tried the V.3 alone, flat on the floor in the center of the room. My initial impression, frankly, was pretty underwhelming. The SK1 sounded pretty good - nice stereo effect on the Leslie - but no where near enough bass for my taste. (I try hard to stay out of the bass players way in the blues band, BUT when I do pull the first drawbar out all the way and floor the expression pedal, I want to rattle the walls! Surprisingly, I can with the twin EVs.) And left hand bass? Fagetaboudit! Just not enough there there. With slight adjustments to the knobs, the Rhodes sounded very good overall - especially with stereo effects: phaser, chorus, delay, reverb. Stock Rhodes triangle-y auto-pan isnt very distinct; probably more like what a listener would hear half-way back in a large room. A much more subtle effect than the ping-pong you get in the sweet spot of a pair of near-field monitors or sitting at a Suitcase. I tried it with a square wave and several other settings on an Alesis Ampliton with interesting results

 

Acoustic piano was again, disappointing. Flat on the floor, or tilted slightly back, I could not get the AP to sound right. It reminded me of the Mark II, only louder. Boxy, mid-range-y Again, the stereo effect was impressive - even in my little box. To be clear, I was trying to dial in the sound using only the controls on the V.3. I try to use as little EQ as possible and to cut rather than boost. With the band, I use a slight variation on an EQd piano programmed by Jim Alfredson & Mike Martin and a darker tweaked Classical or Dolce Stage Setting for practice and solo work, but I went thru a bunch of the PXs APs with varying degrees of success - the V.3 seemed to favor brighter pianos than I would ordinarily use. I went back to my go-to band AP and started messing with the PXs EQ. With the V.3s controls closer to flat - where the SK1 likes em, I was able to get a pretty good AP with the EQ. Again, a little weak in the low end, but fine for the band. I also need to consider that I tweaked my patches (PX Stage Settings) for the EVs; they all sound great through the EVs now, but they didnt start out that way. Gonna take some work to get them right for the V.3. And then I added the sub

 

Wow. Just wow. I mean wow Signal chain: PX & SK1 into Mack 1202, Main Outs balanced to L/R of Behringer Eurolive B1200D-Pro, 100Hz High-pass filtered stereo out to V.3 stereo in. Everything on the V.3 straight up flat, 12:00. The sub input level set just-there at between 9:00 and 10:00. V.3 sitting flat directly on top of the sub. It was glorious. All the boxy-ness in the APs disappeared. Crystal clear throughout the entire range. The low C on the SK didnt rattle the V.3, but it sure rattled the windows! Adding the sub literally made all the difference in the world to me. Relieving the V.3 of the sub-100Hz frequencies really allows it to shine and do what it does best - throw the mids and highs all over the room. I tweaked the mid and highs a little, worked on the balance between the V.3 and the sub, the results were flat-out astonishing. The Behringer is a great match and a good buy at only $300 - though you could probably get by with an even smaller, less powerful sub, if you could find one.

 

So did it hit all three of my reasons for buying it? Well, 2 out of 3 aint bad. With the sub, the magics back - in spades. And stacked, they are a smaller footprint than the EVs laid end to end. But its still 2 trips from the car and each trip carrying nearly twice the weight. Though to be fair, until I have a chance to gig with it, I wont know for sure. With more room to bloom and surfaces to bounce off of, the low end may be fuller and the mid range cleaner than I experienced here. I plan to try it with and without the sub - at my age, I dont want to carry any more than I have to - but sitting here today with the sound of the whole system in my ears, I cant imagine performing without it.

 

Bottom line for me is that its a great rehearsal/jam amp all by itself and an incredible sounding performance amp when combined with a sub. And its still a good value. As an early adopter, I was fortunate enough to get the V.3 for $600. I have an over abundance of mixers, so adding the $300 sub still kept my investment below $1000. For the sound Im getting, Id have gladly paid another $150. Youre still at the bottom range of what youd pay for a good pair of powered PA speakers. I do hope the minor issue with the cabinet is addressed, but that certainly doesnt keep it from being a clear winner.

 

Oh PS: I tried to reproduce the distortion others have reported with the Hammond SK and I just dont hear it. For what its worth

 

Excellent review B.J., very thorough. Obviously at the SPL you require the sub is a no brainer. It was never the intention of our design to replace the bass player in a loud band with a drummer w/o a powered sub.

 

However I really like that you are putting the sub ahead of the SS v.3 and sending it a stereo signal rolled off @ 100Hz...very smart. The Front 8" can really kick butt if it doesn't have to do heavy lifting at 30-100Hz!

 

FYI, in the 1st model SS (and SFX100) I had a 100Hz hi pass roll off for the woofer kick in when the sub was plugged it, as well as a 125Hz low pass on the sub send. But in the MK2 and now the v.3 I have let that Sub send go full range so it can also be used as a FOH send, reasoning that most subs have that filtering in place already. That Berringer sub sounds like a bargain for $300, I may pick one up myself!

 

You comments on that lower row of 3 grill screws being "stripped' upon arrival is duly noted. I have not noticed that yet but it's on my check list from here on out. Hopefully that was a one off over zealous assembler who just tightened those too much. There is just as much wood there as elsewhere...so a secondary wood strip should not be required.

 

Thanks for being a second generation customer, it is much appreciated as is your informative review. I definitely like the way you are running that sub, makes perfect sense.

 

Can't wait to hear your first gig report!

[Jazzmammal]

It's been talked about several times including by Aspen that this amp is almost organic in the way different rooms and different placements can affect the sound. I get a decent sound at home but this thing really wants some open space.

 

Bob

[Aspen]

Needless to say I need to figure out what made it sound so different in the different spaces. In my room I had it about 4 feet behind me and about 2 feet from the wall, angled up a bit as recommended. The gig was in an outdoor courtyard, and I had the amp stuck right in a corner, also leaning back, about 3 feet behind me. I don't know if it was just the corner that made all the difference, or if there were other factors too.

 

A couple of thoughts about enhancing or reducing bass response:

 

1) a tilt back will also reduce LF coupling to the floor, and lose bass. So in smaller rooms where "projection" is not an issue, it may actually sound better set flatfooted on the floor.

 

2) Setting it against a wall or better a corner will add LF and help the 3D "bloom". When you are so close to it in a small room it will sound deceptively thinner than it will sound 6 feet away or in a larger room. These two "out of phase" speaker systems kinda need some room push each other around. So the farther away you are, and/or the more surfaces involved (corners, walls and even ceilings) the more you will experience this effect. This is that "blooming" phenomenon I talk about, what I also believe is the "magic" of this design and what makes that 3D image, even bigger than stereo.

 

3) If you want more bass, try less "treble" and add more Level. Sounds simple, but more bass is another way of saying "less bright". If you start off with the MF and HF above 12 o'clock and higher the woofer can be "overpowered" by these components on some patches.

 

That's why when I set up a SS, I start with every control off, so I set the "tone" in MONO (Front only). I bring Level up to a loudness I think reasonable for my situation, then 2nd I bring up the MF until I just hear it...this is usually b/w 11 and 12 o'clock (so not too bright), 3rd I crank the HF up to 12-1 o'clock or until I "hear it" (and that's w/ a string patch, you may not even hear this at all when it's full up on a B3 or Rhodes). Then only after I have a nice round articulate Front sound do I add the Side...and for this I like to stand back walk around to judge it off axis if possible. A good starting point is 12 o'clock....then usually a bit less for a reverberant room, and maybe a bit more Side for a dead room or where it's not up against a wall or corner.

 

But be careful, too much Side can also start to make some patches (like AP) sound "boxy" and weird. But back to "more LF"...it the system starts to sound too thin, lower the MF and crank the Level...that should add some round.

 

[cphollis]

those of you using the nord stage 2 88 I am not hearing a big stereo sound on the AP Grand imperial. Do you know if this is mostly a mono sample? Everything else sounds awesome on the SS and this sounds great too, just not a lot of side separation. Just wanted thoughts from other Nord users. thanks

 

My understanding (which may be incorrect) is that most of the Nord AP samples are mic'd directly from a real piano. So bass notes tend to be heard more through the left channel, and treble notes through the right. It's a very subtle stereo effect.

 

If I'm jumping around on the keyboard high and low, it sounds great, as the perceived location of the sound moves with me. But that's the exception, rather than the rule. I can't keep up those gymnastics all night, and -- besides -- it'd get annoying before long.

 

For that reason, I sometimes use a bit of chorus when playing live, as it adds more stereo effect. The other thing that I'm doing more of is layering in a small amount of strings, DX7 or other "sweetener", and using a stereo chorus effect on that.

[Bosco Adama]

Slighly off topic for Keyboard corner but related to SS V3:

 

I've been experimenting with my electric guitar through a Zoom G5 pre amp FX pedal into the SS V3. It sounds very good but it's not easy to output a stereo signal for utilizing the side speaker. Using a stereo delay, stereo reverb, stereo chorus or auto pan fx seem to be the only way I've found at this point.

 

Does anyone have any suggestions for stereoizing a mono signal in order to enjoy the spaciousness of the SS V3 on stage?

With a guitar rig? Why not take the stereo tap off the last pedal in line from your pedal board?

 

dB

 

The Zoom G5 guitar FX pedal does have stereo outs which I am utilizing. So far I can only create a stereo field (audio from the side speaker of the SS v3) using a stereo delay, stereo reverb, stereo chorus or auto pan fx.

I'm wondering if some keyboardists with mono synth sounds might have some suggestions for enhancing the stereo field.

 

 

[Mitch Towne]

So quick report from last nights gig. I got positive feedback from all in the band and audience on the sound. It definitely filled out the sound more,as for the distortion issue, its still there, but harder to distinguish in a band setting.Seems like its a problem with the front speaker, ie L+R, the side speaker L-R does not have the same crackle. Overall sound quality was ok, but I think the dxr10 I was using up till now sounds better, but it is mono, Im talking overall sound quality not taking into account the stereo field. I wasn't playing loud, but it did seem like I was "pushing" the amp's limits. Gain was set to about 1 o'clock, width at around 12 o'clock and the vol level on the sk2 was no more than 4 o'clock . I didn't hear any discernible difference when adjusting the HF, so I kept both HF and mid to around 12 o'clock.

As for my earlier post, yes, I had the OD off, and when using the vent, had the drive off. I checked all my settings, tweaked eq etc, distortion still there at anything above a quiet / medium sound level. I will further investigate and hook up the xk3c tomorrow to rule out the sk2. I really want to love the SS so Ill keep investigating. I don't want to sound negative about this product, trust me. Maybe just 1 less than perfect QC, it happens.

 

I am experiencing pretty much the exact same thing, except the crackling is coming from all around. Basically, the amp is distorting at anything above a medium level. It is definitely not anything in the settings of the Mojo.

 

I made a Soundcloud example.

 

 

[endlessummerkeys]

Thanks that was what I thought CP, and I agree with maybe a little chorus or something to thicken it up a bit. Thanks for the input

[B. J. Love]

Nice review BJ - did you try moving it from the centre of the room? Tucking it into a corner/near the wall made a siggnificant difference to me.

 

No I didn't. I moved it around as much as possible in the confines of my very crowded workspace. I honestly don't have access to a corner or a wall! I'm really looking forward to gigging with it Thursday night. I'm in the upstage corner of a small stage; small/med neighborhood bar. Unfortunately, there's carpet running about 3 feet up the walls onstage; I'll try to bring a piece of plexi or something. I'd love for it work for me all by itself in a band context! I'll also try Aspen's suggestion of turning up the main level and rolling off the others to increase the bass response.

 

I'm also convinced that tweaking my patches to the V.3 will make a significant difference. Maybe even choosing a different "go-to" piano. It's a very different sound than what I'm used to with the ZxA-1s; when I'm done tailoring the patches to the amp, I really think I'm going to like it better.

[TomKittel]

So quick report from last nights gig. I got positive feedback from all in the band and audience on the sound. It definitely filled out the sound more,as for the distortion issue, its still there, but harder to distinguish in a band setting.Seems like its a problem with the front speaker, ie L+R, the side speaker L-R does not have the same crackle. Overall sound quality was ok, but I think the dxr10 I was using up till now sounds better, but it is mono, Im talking overall sound quality not taking into account the stereo field. I wasn't playing loud, but it did seem like I was "pushing" the amp's limits. Gain was set to about 1 o'clock, width at around 12 o'clock and the vol level on the sk2 was no more than 4 o'clock . I didn't hear any discernible difference when adjusting the HF, so I kept both HF and mid to around 12 o'clock.

As for my earlier post, yes, I had the OD off, and when using the vent, had the drive off. I checked all my settings, tweaked eq etc, distortion still there at anything above a quiet / medium sound level. I will further investigate and hook up the xk3c tomorrow to rule out the sk2. I really want to love the SS so Ill keep investigating. I don't want to sound negative about this product, trust me. Maybe just 1 less than perfect QC, it happens.

 

I am experiencing pretty much the exact same thing, except the crackling is coming from all around. Basically, the amp is distorting at anything above a medium level. It is definitely not anything in the settings of the Mojo.

 

I made a Soundcloud example.

 

 

It sounds like the input stage of the SSV3 overloads with increasing volume of the Mojo. My SSV3 doesn't show this behavior. But I am always using a Mackie 402 or a Yammie MG10 together with the SSV3 just because I prefer to have volume and tone control within reach.

[Analogaddict]

[

So he placed an order and agreed to be our exclusive outlet for all my APD products in Europe.

 

Yeeeeah!!!

[Mitch Towne]

I'm actually not adjusting the volume of the Mojo. In the example, I'm increasing the volume of the Space Station. The Mojo level is consistent.

[Joe Muscara]

That's nasty, Mitch. I hope it gets sorted.

[endlessummerkeys]

Mitch I think you need to get a different speaker. I don't think this one is acting correctly listening to your sound cloud. I may be wrong and I am sure there are other people on this site that could help you better but I play the similar type music through mine and it does not sound like that. However I am using a Nord Stage 2 and maybe that is the difference?

[Brettymike]

So quick report from last nights gig. I got positive feedback from all in the band and audience on the sound. It definitely filled out the sound more,as for the distortion issue, its still there, but harder to distinguish in a band setting.Seems like its a problem with the front speaker, ie L+R, the side speaker L-R does not have the same crackle. Overall sound quality was ok, but I think the dxr10 I was using up till now sounds better, but it is mono, Im talking overall sound quality not taking into account the stereo field. I wasn't playing loud, but it did seem like I was "pushing" the amp's limits. Gain was set to about 1 o'clock, width at around 12 o'clock and the vol level on the sk2 was no more than 4 o'clock . I didn't hear any discernible difference when adjusting the HF, so I kept both HF and mid to around 12 o'clock.

As for my earlier post, yes, I had the OD off, and when using the vent, had the drive off. I checked all my settings, tweaked eq etc, distortion still there at anything above a quiet / medium sound level. I will further investigate and hook up the xk3c tomorrow to rule out the sk2. I really want to love the SS so Ill keep investigating. I don't want to sound negative about this product, trust me. Maybe just 1 less than perfect QC, it happens.

 

I am experiencing pretty much the exact same thing, except the crackling is coming from all around. Basically, the amp is distorting at anything above a medium level. It is definitely not anything in the settings of the Mojo.

 

I made a Soundcloud example.

 

 

Could be loose screws somewhere.....or loose wire connection....

 

Brett

[endlessummerkeys]

Yeah now that you mention it Bretty it does kind of sound like a wire vibrating on the speaker cone

[16251]

Somewhere in this thread Aspen talks about the difference between running keyboard hot vs. running amp hot. Maybe that can help sort out why it's distorting.

[cphollis]

Yeah, doesn't sound right. I run my SSv3 with organ much hotter than you were, and I don't get anything like that.

[HAMEGZ]

I get a weird rattle buzz sometimes, and it goes away if I tilt/lean the SS one way or another,,

I have removed the grille and pulled the woofer to see if there is anything, the only thing I see "may" rattle are the power wire leads to the toroid xformer.

[Mitch Towne]

I'm just about positive this isn't a rattle. This is distortion.

[hardware]

Nice to hear about the Sub 1st being used. I was always accustomed to other methods until I got QSC KW153/KW181 Bundle.

 

Once I took the stereo out from the X32 into the Subs, then to the KW153's I realized this placement of Sub 1st rules supreme.

Way more control w/ Crossovers, etc.

 

I just need a behind the head, small stereo/3D sound as I do not like IEMs for this particular Group. I don't sing and I definitely want to hear every player involved.

 

IEMs are great for getting rid of Vocals, players who have no ears, but chops, etc.

 

If I need to fill up a small venue that Behringer looks perfect as it has the Stereo Ins.

Over at Behringer someone is definitely listening to the wants of performers.

[hardware]

Oh, and Aspen Pittman too, or we wouldn't have this kick ass Stage Monitor.

 

Thanks Again Gents, great forum, lots of cats gigging.

[DavTomSun]

Can anybody recommend an inexpensive but effective subwoofer to pair with the SSv3?

[Danny Linguini]

Can anybody recommend an inexpensive but effective subwoofer to pair with the SSv3?

Somebody mentioned Behringer Eurolive B1200D a few posts up. I'm giving it a good look myself ... I'm not sure I'm happy with the sound I'm getting out of my EV's. Of course I'm not in front of them while I'm playing, so I'm getting the out-of-dispersion crap sound. But this is a nice looking little unit, and fairly light weight for a powered sub.

Behringer Eurolive B1200D-PRO

[Analogaddict]

The Eurolive B1200 D-Pro seems to be getting favorable reviews. If you're going to gig with it, you'll want something that holds up well...

[cphollis]

I'm just about positive this isn't a rattle. This is distortion.

 

Sounds like that to my ears as well. I'd double-check the entire signal chain: cables, levels, mixer channel, etc.

[endlessummerkeys]

I like the idea of the individual sub and then feeding the SS with a >100khz signal to not have to burden the SS with the low end and save the power for the mids and the highs. I ordered a B1200d-pro today from sweetwater and will let you know how it sounds

[Aussie_Chicago]

So quick report from last nights gig. I got positive feedback from all in the band and audience on the sound. It definitely filled out the sound more,as for the distortion issue, its still there, but harder to distinguish in a band setting.Seems like its a problem with the front speaker, ie L+R, the side speaker L-R does not have the same crackle. Overall sound quality was ok, but I think the dxr10 I was using up till now sounds better, but it is mono, Im talking overall sound quality not taking into account the stereo field. I wasn't playing loud, but it did seem like I was "pushing" the amp's limits. Gain was set to about 1 o'clock, width at around 12 o'clock and the vol level on the sk2 was no more than 4 o'clock . I didn't hear any discernible difference when adjusting the HF, so I kept both HF and mid to around 12 o'clock.

As for my earlier post, yes, I had the OD off, and when using the vent, had the drive off. I checked all my settings, tweaked eq etc, distortion still there at anything above a quiet / medium sound level. I will further investigate and hook up the xk3c tomorrow to rule out the sk2. I really want to love the SS so Ill keep investigating. I don't want to sound negative about this product, trust me. Maybe just 1 less than perfect QC, it happens.

 

I am experiencing pretty much the exact same thing, except the crackling is coming from all around. Basically, the amp is distorting at anything above a medium level. It is definitely not anything in the settings of the Mojo.

 

I made a Soundcloud example.

 

 

Yep , that's exactly what I have. I noticed in the demo it sounds like you had the leslie in stop mode, if you go to chorale, can you hear the distortion revolving ie-as is sweeps through the speaker ( front for me ) ? I start getting distortion at around 12 o'clock , even with the sk2 at no more than 4 o'clock. I also put it through my Yamaha MG 06 mixer, and still the same once you start increasing the level on the mixer , it distorts way before its at a gig playing level.

I tried it the other way , increase the organ level, decrease the SS, still the same . Definitely not loose screws or wires, its distortion.

[David Loving]

Maybe the amp works well with some setups, and not so well with other setups. My setup is like Aussie's. I'll use an XK3, or XW-P1 122/AMA, and a Vent. If it is not loud, I can't use it.

 

[hardware]

I like the idea of the individual sub and then feeding the SS with a >100khz signal to not have to burden the SS with the low end and save the power for the mids and the highs. I ordered a B1200d-pro today from sweetwater and will let you know how it sounds

 

Please do, I won't need one for a few months, but definitely want to hear about it.

Otherwise I will be taking mono out of 2 x KW181s into the SSv3.

No biggie really but 200 lbs. worth of Subs is a little overkill.

[rickp]

I like the idea of the individual sub and then feeding the SS with a >100khz signal to not have to burden the SS with the low end and save the power for the mids and the highs. I ordered a B1200d-pro today from sweetwater and will let you know how it sounds

 

Please do, I won't need one for a few months, but definitely want to hear about it.

Otherwise I will be taking mono out of 2 x KW181s into the SSv3.

No biggie really but 200 lbs. worth of Subs is a little overkill.

 

The outs from the KW181's are full-range pass-through, so you wouldn't be reducing the frequency range fed into the SS3 - sure would get some serious air from the subs though!