Keyboards in guitar-based blues

[Dr88s]

I'm in need of some direction.

 

To put in context for those who don't know me, I'm an amateur/hobbyist with a long background in classical but I've transitioned to rock in the past 3-4 years. I can play most things from sheet music given enough practice time, but improvisational skills are seriously lacking.

 

One thing I've never been comfortable with, which my bandmates always seem to expect to be the easiest thing in music, is to play simple 12 bar blues. I get the form. I get the chords. I just can't play anything MEANINGFUL. Holding down 7th chords on organ or rhythmically plunking 7th chords on piano gets old really fast.

 

I've bought and read many books on blues piano, but just about all of these are geared towards solo boogie woogie or New Orleans style where the piano is up front. I need to fit in with guitar-based blues. I have never found any place where a Huey Smith lick the books all teach would be appropriate.

 

I have no need to solo or be a rock star. All I ever aim to do is to contribute something meaningful to the band, to make it sound considerably better with me than without. As blues, I consistently fail at this.

 

Please direct me at some blues artists/ bands with keyboard sidemen to listen to and to try emulate. Bobby Whitlock in Derek and the Dominos springs to mind.

 

Suggestions please?

[Bill Spencer]

Avoid thick voicings. Often roots and fifths are enough. Use the color tones (3rds, 7ths, altered fifths, etc.) for interest. On piano, high right hand octaves on the root are very effective and can fill a spot that the guitar(s) generally leave open. Listen to piano parts in guitar oriented blues tunes (Stevie Ray, etc.).

[Hobo]

Try listening to Billy Preston with Clapton.

 

Another one, not strictly blues, but the right attitude, is Ian McClagan, in the Small Faces and The Faces.

 

Sometimes I feel I have to punch out like a guitarist in these situations just to be heard!

 

 

[Dr88s]

Try listening to Billy Preston with Clapton.

 

Another one, not strictly blues, but the right attitude, is Ian McClagan, in the Small Faces and The Faces.

 

Sometimes I feel I have to punch out like a guitarist in these situations just to be heard!

 

 

Excellent choice; Maclagan is a guy I'd love to emulate. Man, can he rock the Wurly...

[Mr. Nightime]

It would be a good idea to learn to do some soloing. This would help you develop some licks that can be used in comping.

 

The first set that I played with Jimmie Rogers, I was much like you described, wanting to just sit in the background and provide chordal support. After that first set, he came up to me and said "You play pretty good, but you don't play enough."

 

Piano can be more than just a background instrument to the guitar and vocals. It can add color all its own. Even playing some light lead behind vocals can help the overall feel.

 

I use a lot of what many would consider "Jazz" chords, 13ths, 9ths, etc. For instance, in G... on the 1 I might play a regular G triad. Then on the 4, drop the B to a Bb, leaving out the root and get a C9, Or use a G13 on the 1, using F-B-E as the notes. It will spread the notes out a bit.

 

Someone will most always be hitting the root somewhere, so you can leave that out.

 

Remember that blues can be very difficult in its simplicity. It's not about the notes, it's about the feel.

 

After the Jimmie Rogers gig, I began listening to a lot of Pine Top Perkins. That's a good example of how to put the embellishments in there that add to the song without getting in the way.

 

It sounds like you're already aware of the most important thing for playing the Blues - Listen. One of my best friends is an unbelievable pianist. Put sheet music in front of him, and he can immediately sight read it perfectly. But, because he never developed the ear, take it away and he'll flounder.

 

 

[JeffLearman]

I have about 3 tricks that I use all night and people are fooled into thinking I'm a good player.

 

Let's put it in G, since that's my favorite and a sweet key for piano voicings. And it's all about voicings, motion, and timing (rhythmic chops).

 

I only have time for one trick right now. On piano, while playing the I chord, voice right hand G7 as F B D. Walk this up and back down two white keys, keeping the same pattern. The two higher triads are a C and Dm, 2nd inversion.

 

For spice (and use spice liberally) play a grace note when landing the chord, sliding the middle of the three notes from the lower black key to the white key. This works on the G7 and Dm triads. (Note that the G7 triad is rootless.)

 

Be sure you know where the dissonant chords are, like G13, use D+ on turnarounds, and know when you can slide in 7b9 or 7#9 chords. Always experiment with "sloppy" technique, sliding from black key to white key. Once you have that down, learn to imitate it in keys where you have to use two fingers to "slide up". Resist the temptation to follow your classical training and never slide: the sliding produces the correct tone, leaves other fingers free for important stuff, and is the standard for the genre. But you'll also need to learn to imitate this when playing in keys where you have to "slide up". That takes some licks off the table, but usually adds others.

 

Next post, later today, my brain-dead easy-peasy trick for playing drone organ all night esp in slow blues, using only two fingers that hardly move. Someone might beat me to it.

[vonnor]

Try working against the vocal lines, that is play a couple melodic licks when there are no vocals happening. Work the blues scales (1, b3, 4, b5, 5, b7) So if in G for example: G, Bb, C, Db, D, F, G. I try to make up little counterpoint melodies using mainly that scale with some variation for funk/tension. Starting out just use that scale on the root chord and on the 4 (G and C in the above example) and lay back a bit on the 5 (D). You can also add 2-note intervals, play the high or low root note or b7 with the 5, b5, 4, b3 etc. and add in grace notes (b5 to 5, b3 to 3, b5 to 4) here and there.

 

Listen while you play, play along with a recording you like and pretend you're the piano player. I've been recently messing with Wilson Pickett's Mustang Sally in the above manner. Good fun!

 

~ vonnor

[mate stubb]

Take up organ. It's easier to play a few notes and sound good. You can hold a single note, and shade the dynamics with the pedal, the tone with drawbars, and the tension/release with the leslie switch.

 

Listen to Gregg Allman on the classic Live at the Fillmore album.

[Threadslayer]

Less is more. One thing you might try is to play along with your favorite blues recordings and sort of feel your way. If you're playing too much, it will conflict with what the other players are doing and sound muddy and out of whack. If you have a way to do it, record only your instrument while you're doing this. Then play it back and listen to it. You'll be amazed at how minimalist your accompaniment is.

[wmp]

A wise man once told me to play in sixths. Those will be major or minor sixths, depending on where you are in the scale. Check out what Billy Preston does with the first verse of this tune.

 

[video:youtube]C8Z6-RxlA3o

He's playing through the one chord and the four chord in ascending sixths. Each time he gets to the top inversion, he leads to the next chord with a 13 chord to a 9 chord with the 7 on the bottom. Note the the motion on top is fourths, 3 and 13 on the 13 chord, 9 and 5 on the 9 chord.

 

I tend to think of chords as a buffet of possible intervals. I tend to play around the progresion in sixths, fourths and flat fives instead of full chords. You can always drop a note or two inside of that sixth to fatten it up.

 

If that sinks in, and you can pick out what Billy does with this tune, you'll be playing better blues.

 

 

 

 

[Dr88s]

I am reading all of your posts with great appreciation and would like to address them but I'm at work and can't until later.

 

Much useful information to ponder here before deciding which to tackle first. Keen 'em coming!

[Baldwin Funster]

I'll offer the easiest organ trick. Just play simple, tastefull pentatonic blues licks over everything. Be sure to UNDERSTATE everything except when its solo time, then OVERSTATE. This is what I hear in a lot of Ian Mclagen.

[JeffLearman]

OK, here's the brain-dead easy-peasy trick for playing drone organ. We'll do this in C. I don't have a keyboard handy, and I usually make mistakes when I go from memory, and hopefully someone will correct if I goof it.

 

I use flutey drawbar registrations for this, like 8400 00048 or 8000 04004, something nice and silky in the background.

 

On I ©, play major 3rd and minor 7th (E, Bb). Either inversion. Start with whichever comes naturally, then learn it in the other too.

 

On IV (F), drop both notes a halftone to Eb, A, which are now the minor 7 and major 3 of the F.

 

On V, raise both notes a halftone from the I to F, B, which are now the minor 7 and major 3 of the G.

 

Meanwhile, play with leslie speed and drawbars, or play this with left hand and play rhythmic punctuation stabby chords on the piano. In either case, have your foot on the swell pedal, and fade in and out tastefully. Don't just drone at constant volume and tone!

[JeffLearman]

I'll offer the easiest organ trick. Just play simple, tastefull pentatonic blues licks over everything. Be sure to UNDERSTATE everything except when its solo time, then OVERSTATE. This is what I hear in a lot of Ian Mclagen.

Yup, and not just pentatonic but include your favorite grace notes:

 

b3 to 3 (often followed by 5, or trill 3-5)

b6 to 6 (often followed by 8, or trill 6-8)

#4 to 4 (often while holding 8 or m7)

[JeffLearman]

Here are some of my favorite piano punctuation chords:

 

1-5-8, sliding from 5b to 5

4-8, sliding from #4 to 4

 

13-chord, voiced as b7-3-13. In G: F A E. With a grace note, sometimes (guess which one). Plus those three chords I listed in my first post -- those work equally well on I and IV.

[JeffLearman]

I think that's it -- that's my 3 tricks. Easy!

[miden]

............... On piano, while playing the I chord, voice right hand G7 as F A C. Walk this up and back down two white keys, keeping the same pattern. The two higher triads are a C and Dm, 2nd inversion...............

 

Sorry, but this one has me confused... While playing the I chord (meaning GM I assume) then G7 = F major?? With a C Major and Dm...seems really odd. For starters how can one play the I chord and simultaneously play an F major? Seems more like an G9(+11) and secondly that's an awful lot of notes when trying to play "sparse" blues lines.

 

Not criticising just trying to get my head around it...perhaps and audio demo?

[Dave Weiser]

Try this - swap out the I (note) for the VII with your thumb. And roll into the maj 3 from the flat 3.

So for a G7 chord you'd play bottom to top - F B D and roll into the B from the Bflat. (Best in the middle C range.)

Now alternate this with a major C triad: G C E.

Vamp on this when on the I chord (G).

An easy trick for vamping on the IV chord: Just make that B natural into a B flat and do the same vamp, alternating between the G-7 and C triad.

For the V you could do the D #9, as all the notes are close by: F# C F natural.

Also a D 13 is nice - F# B D and you can slide down chromatically to the A triad - E A C, which is the C13 for when you go back to the IV chord.

This stuff sounds pretty authentic and doesn't require much movement.

 

Check out Leon Russell on Freddie King's Gettin Ready, Pine Top Perkins, Otis Spann, etc. Also be sure to check out and cop horn section parts from blues recordings - those are great for organ and piano voicings. (see the Elvis clip below)

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFN7IvYW0cY

 

[video:youtube]

 

[CEB]

Random basic FWIWs -

 

Drill the 6ths

Just for giggles practice playing 6ths up and down the keyboard work your speed up as fast as you can (while being accurate!) just go up and down chromatically or you can walk up and down in a scalular manner in context of select keys. E-A-D-G are good unless you are playing with one of those Eb downtuning wankers. Then adjust accordingly either with a transposer or play in the flat keys. You want to be able to hit 6ths cleanly and quickly we needed.

 

A Chord Voicing/ Right hand substition thingy

3/7 voicings often work well.... or play minor 3rd's chord over the real root.

 

Example if I am playing a organ vamp of fill over C in a C blues I will play Eb minor chord. When you go to the iv I will play an Ab minor. I might only play one hand, I might do this with two hands, I might play the root in the left or root/5/root in the left example would be C/G/C .... Eb/G/Bb. I might get really light and play just Eb AND Bb notes. It works because the 3s(Eb) and 7s(Bb) determine the flavor of the blues. OFTEN I just play 2 notes the 3 and the 7. Like Bill said you avoid thick chords. Block chording 7th chords in the blues generally sucks. It just sounds like blues from a year 2 piano repertoire text book. .... If your play a major blues you will raise the 3rds of course.

 

The subtle stuff is what is hard. Listen to Ray Charles he was great at the subtle stuff. Ray Charles can be used to advance all you genre of play. His voicings were masterful.

 

 

 

Scale crap

Pentatonics or preferrably the 6 tone Blues scales is a great base to start with. Learn it in all your keys. Learn to the point you can forget it. (that is why we learn this crap is so we can not think about it) Once you learn it then start to ignore it and use your ears instead. As long as you are not clamming the one everything else can be a passing tone. You need to get the one right.

 

Crushing

Tension is good, especially in blues piano. Guitars can bend notes. We try to do this with tension by doing what Chick called playing between the cracks. Crush notes are critical Do a search on crush notes.

 

I may post some other non-lick specific things later. But I have probably spewed too much crazy nonsense already.

 

PS Organ aint piano. This is a great genre to begin learning Organ. A lot of good organ knowledge on this forum.

 

[JeffLearman]

............... On piano, while playing the I chord, voice right hand G7 as F A C. Walk this up and back down two white keys, keeping the same pattern. The two higher triads are a C and Dm, 2nd inversion...............

 

Sorry, but this one has me confused... While playing the I chord (meaning GM I assume) then G7 = F major?? With a C Major and Dm...seems really odd. For starters how can one play the I chord and simultaneously play an F major? Seems more like an G9(+11) and secondly that's an awful lot of notes when trying to play "sparse" blues lines.

 

Not criticising just trying to get my head around it...perhaps and audio demo?

No, just my mistake.

 

That should have been F B D, not F A C. Sorry! b7, 3, 5.

 

I'm going to edit my post above to fix it.

[miden]

LOL! No probs thanks, that makes sense to me now.

[JeffLearman]

Try this - swap out the I (note) for the VII with your thumb. And roll into the maj 3 from the flat 3.

So for a G7 chord you'd play bottom to top - F B D and roll into the B from the Bflat. (Best in the middle C range.)

Now alternate this with a major C triad: G C E.

Vamp on this when on the I chord (G).

An easy trick for vamping on the IV chord: Just make that B natural into a B flat and do the same vamp, alternating between the G-7 and C triad.

Yup, that's what I'm talking about, and with a third chord (the next one up from the C, which is Dm). But using just two is very useful and more common.

 

A really nice little figure is, thumb plays the G, other two fingers then play the rest of the C chord, and then play the G7. In slow blues, play these as 1/4 note triplet pickup, landing the G7 on the downbeat: rest - G - CE - FBD. Thank you Roberta Flack (though I bet she was far from the first.)

 

And great point about shifting from G7 on the I to G-7 on the IV. Another easy trick, works great on both organ and piano.

 

And Dave's later point is good too: especially on organ, but true on piano too, find legato voicings, where you can make minimal moves when shifting between the three chords (I, IV, and V).

[CEB]

All this stuff is based around the same subset of changes. you can add the 5 in the the mix and make the 7 the bottom static note and roll or crush the 3b and 5b up to the 3 and 5.

 

I am now playing a solo in Sweet Black Cherry Pie in Cm (not blues- Santana tune but I've done this in blues also).... Play the old wornout octave roots trilling 3b to 3 to 1. Then just take it up the keyboard till you get to where you want to resolve to. I don't know the notes. I just do it. It is a mechanical lick that trills black keys to white keys that sounds cool. Once you learn the rules ignore them. Notes eventually become irrelevant. LOL!

 

Just don't repeat the same tricks more than once a night. Tricks are nice.... As my old Chesscoach would say... "Cheap is good."

 

 

 

[miden]

and if I may add - avoid where possible all root voicings as a general rule when playing with a bass man. They will thank you for it ( perhaps not openly, but they will )

[CEB]

Did someone say when you play the pentatonic based riff over the I and go to the IV to keep playing on the I scale? You can goe to the IV's scale but staying on the home blues scale sounds really good.

[Kevmo]

Leon Russell Nicky Hopkins

[Baldwin Funster]

Did someone say when you play the pentatonic based riff over the I and go to the IV to keep playing on the I scale? You can goe to the IV's scale but staying on the home blues scale sounds really good.

 

Then play major (pentatonic) in the key that is the root of the V chord.

[JeffLearman]

Just don't repeat the same tricks more than once a night. Tricks are nice.... As my old Chesscoach would say... "Cheap is good."

Well hell, there goes my plan.

 

Did someone say when you play the pentatonic based riff over the I and go to the IV to keep playing on the I scale? You can goe to the IV's scale but staying on the home blues scale sounds really good.

Most of the time, stay on the 1, but avoid the major 3rd: you're playing the minor now (enharmonic to the IV7 chord).

 

You can stay on the blues scale (1 b3 4 b5 5 b7 8) through the whole I IV V, but it gets a bit boring.

 

Yeah, it's a pentatonic, but there are a lot more notes in there to enjoy. As mentioned above, the major 3rd is good on the I (but not the IV). The 2 and 6 are nice too, so don't snub them.

 

Note that you have 5 chromatic notes in a row to make good use of: b3, 3, 4, b5, and 5. Use those to help avoid being stuck in pentatonic hell.

 

I generally don't switch to the IV's blues scale on the IV chord. Instead, I alter the way I use the tonic scale, switching from major to minor. Instead of sliding from b3 to 3, I slide from 2 to b3.

 

But I do often shift to the key of the V chord during the V chord, and sometimes when the IV follows it, play the same or similar lick in the IV key, despite what I said above about usually not shifting to the IV key.

 

Anything that sounds good, often sounds better letting the pink ride along on (say, on the b7 or 8 when playing 1-3-5 area, or on the 5 when playing 7-8 area.)

 

Classic simple lick, two notes on each hit:

1 8

3 8

4 8

#4 8

4 8 or 5-8 5-8 5-8

 

and take off from there, or back down. Those are solo licks, but when used tastefully work well as backup too, as long as not too much else is going on, or you time it to dovetail nicely with the vocals or guitar. Do it way up high to avoid collisions. Etc., etc., etc., as the king says.

 

[Moon Zero Two]

I quit playing guitar blues bands a while ago - I had been in a couple of twin guitar outfits and when two guitars are playing rhythm then there isn't much to do except hold down some triads of Hammond glue. When you get a moment to shine piano works but B3 seems to just be perfect for blues.

 

Everyone has a hero - for this style for me it's Bruce Katz - the Ronnie Earl stuff is incredible.

 

 

[Steve Nathan]

Clonk & listen