Ashville.Guru Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Objectively, the dynamic range was surprisingly limited. ... Subjectively, someone might like that or not like that, but objectively it's fair to say it had limited dynamic range. ...so if I were interested in the samples (I am!) I would definitely be interested in learning more about the source and would appreciate finding that information in the same thread. ... if there were a sample set of a rare violin and someone actually knew about the instrument, it would be pretty cool for that person to pop in and say "well, I've played it and this is what I can tell you from my perspective." Technically, sampled pianos only have tonal fidelity, and do not recreate the dynamic range of the source piano. Dynamic range is determined by the sampler engine/programmer, and is not tied down by the source instrument. Many VIs like Ivory will let you alter the dynamic range in real time, even. In other words, your experience with the acoustic source of the samples isn't quite relevant to the sampled VI piano itself. - Guru This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sMatt Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Objectively, the dynamic range was surprisingly limited. ... Subjectively, someone might like that or not like that, but objectively it's fair to say it had limited dynamic range. ...so if I were interested in the samples (I am!) I would definitely be interested in learning more about the source and would appreciate finding that information in the same thread. ... if there were a sample set of a rare violin and someone actually knew about the instrument, it would be pretty cool for that person to pop in and say "well, I've played it and this is what I can tell you from my perspective." Technically, sampled pianos only have tonal fidelity, and do not recreate the dynamic range of the source piano. Dynamic range is determined by the sampler engine/programmer, and is not tied down by the source instrument. Many VIs like Ivory will let you alter the dynamic range in real time, even. In other words, your experience with the acoustic source of the samples isn't quite relevant to the sampled VI piano itself. - Guru interesting point. however, you sit down at some pianos and you can get a tremendous range of colors, from whispering to barking. when you open up, they open up, and you get this incredible resonance and power. this piano didn't do that. tonally, it was more monochromatic. I don't think that's irrelevant, but I don't know how it effects the samples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted February 16, 2014 Author Share Posted February 16, 2014 sMatt, while we're waiting on the delayed release of the product, all speculation/relevant info is good. And no matter what one's impressions of the acoustic instrument are, it eventually will come down to personal taste. Just listened to the "So What" duo above (with its less "relevant" note-age ) on my crummy computer speakers vs. a $500+ pair of Sennheiser cans. In the video, the acoustic sounded nice but a little small, although it did seem like it was recorded from a distance. The bottom on the sampled piano, boosted by a Focal sub-woofer, is much bigger sounding than the bass on the Raven' acoustic... while the highs on the Raven acoustic sound a little better to me than the sample. So, similar to what I think Asheville is saying, the extra controls/tweaking of the sample (including room mic) should make a huge difference in the tone, dynamics and perception of the size of the instrument. Translation: the sample should be fun to work with. CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashville.Guru Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Tonal variation (or lack thereof) is indeed relevant to the samples. However, the term 'dynamic range' typically refers to the volume component - as do 'incredible resonance' and 'power'. Mere semantics? Could be, but my gut says otherwise. In an acoustic piano, volume dynamics are married to tonal variation. Your very experienced ears may be expecting a certain tone at a certain volume at a given key velocity. While the real deal may fail to meet the expectation of your ears, it is quite possible that the sampled version may. A programmer can change both the tonal response and the volume response independent of each other, in ways that are possibly more pleasing/useful than the original. Or he could just leave them to be tweaked by the end-user. - Guru This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Very strong recommendation from Steve Nathan, who is perhaps one of the few on the forum who has had a chance to live with this. I almost went for the introductory price, But it would require for me a completely new computer with lots of memory. The person I spoke to from VI Labs is NOT recommending 4 gig RAM to run it. It says you probably need around 8 GIG. I * might* have to consider one of the other VI Labs offerings so that I won't need a new computer also. I would love to try it, but I haven't been anywhere near anyone else who has this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 The person I spoke to from VI Labs is NOT recommending 4 gig RAM to run it. It says you probably need around 8 GIG.Yeah, of course you're better off with 8. Again, the Vi Labs site says 4G of RAM "suggested" as the minimum it will run on. If you go with a different piano, FWIW: I ran True Keys American with no problem on my computer with 4G before I got 8G. CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryanstern Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I spoke to someone at VILabs. "Yes, that laptop should be sufficient to run the Ravenscroft virtual instrument. 4GB really should be okay to get things up and running." Will order 8 GB, if needed, but I will probably only have 4GB when I install Ravenscroft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashville.Guru Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Heads-up to those with 4GB RAM machines - you can usually upgrade to higher memory, provided you have a 64-bit operating system. @bryanstern's approach to try it out with 4 gigs before upgrading, therefore appears sensible. - Guru This is really what MIDI was originally about encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wright Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 http://bloggersbug.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/anticipation-image.png [video:youtube] . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midinut Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I was already considering the VI Labs True Keys Piano bundle, which includes the Italian, the American and the German. Just wondering if the Ravenscroft could/would be included in the bundle at some point, or available at a discount to those who purchase the bundle. From what I hear (reviews and Steve's opinions) I'd really like to own all their offerings. I can also pick up Steinberg's The Grand 3 for pretty cheap using my educational discount. Anyone have any experience or thoughts on those pianos? Hardware: Yamaha: MODX7 | Korg: Kronos 88, Wavestate | ASM: Hydrasynth Deluxe | Roland: Jupiter-Xm, Cloud Pro, TD-9K V-Drums | Alesis: StrikePad Pro| Behringer: Crave, Poly D, XR-18, RX1602 | CPS: SpaceStation SSv2 | Controllers: ROLI RISE 49 | Arturia KeyLab Essentials 88, KeyLab 61, MiniLab | M-Audio KeyStation 88 & 49 | Akai EWI USB | Novation LaunchPad Mini, | Guitars & Such: Line 6 Variax, Helix LT, POD X3 Live, Martin Acoustic, DG Strat Copy, LP Sunburst Copy, Natural Tele Copy| Squier Precision 5-String Bass | Mandolin | Banjo | Ukulele Software: Recording: MacBook Pro | Mac Mini | Logic Pro X | Mainstage | Cubase Pro 12 | Ableton Live 11 | Monitors: M-Audio BX8 | Presonus Eris 3.5BT Monitors | Slate Digital VSX Headphones & ML-1 Mic | Behringer XR-18 & RX1602 Mixers | Beyerdynamics DT-770 & DT-240 Arturia: V-Collection 9 | Native Instruments: Komplete 1 Standard | Spectrasonics: Omnisphere 2, Keyscape, Trilian | Korg: Legacy Collection 4 | Roland: Cloud Pro | GForce: Most all of their plugins | u-he: Diva, Hive 2, Repro, Zebra Legacy | AAS: Most of their VSTs | IK Multimedia: SampleTank 4 Max, Sonik Synth, MODO Drums & Bass | Cherry Audio: Most of their VSTs | Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Just wondering if the Ravenscroft could/would be included in the bundle at some point, or available at a discount to those who purchase the bundle.I don't know that they'd include it as a bundle, as I expect they'll produce more pianos in the future... they can't all be bundled. I don't work for Vi Labs or UVI, but I also don't think they'll give a discount beyond their already reasonable prices. The only discount for now is the pre-order of Ravenscroft, where you save $50. And I believe you have a very small window to place a pre-order. I've been hearing things... a little birdie told me... What is that tapping, (or is that someone rapping), tapping on my inbox door? Quoth the Raven, "not much longer". Or somethin' (and the reason I'm not a poet) CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wright Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 http://www.poets.org/images/authors/130_eapoe.jpg Indeed! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted February 21, 2014 Author Share Posted February 21, 2014 Youtube post from yesterday: [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVvAVecvHws&feature=player_embedded#at=15 nice CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 So the VI Labs Ravenscroft introductory price has been extended, correct? If I can run it with `4 gig of RAM then I might consider it. I will also look into finding a laptop that has upgradable memory. That's a lot of memory for just a piano sample BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wright Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 So the VI Labs Ravenscroft introductory price has been extended, correct?If I can run it with `4 gig of RAM then I might consider it. I will also look into finding a laptop that has upgradable memory.That's a lot of memory for just a piano sample BTW. I wouldnt wait too long. I half expected it to be ready today. Heres Hoping. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 My recollection is that the sale is good until the day of release, whenever that is. Don't count on any warning! I pre-bought my copy a couple of weeks ago. Can hardly wait! Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 How do you get past the shipping loop at the web site? When I get to delivery method in checkout I get this message "Warning: No Shipping options are available. Please contact us for assistance!" When I click continue I get "Warning: Shipping method required!" and can't proceed. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Busch, you can't get it until it becomes generally available - just got home and haven't checked to see if it's up yet. I do know that when you do, they will send RAR files. They told me it's too much to put in one zip package, which they had hoped to do. So it will be a download only, no shipping. CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningbusch Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Thanks Steve. I got it taken care of. I was trying to do the pre-purchase and there was a glitch in the ordering. Busch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Nathan Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 These guys are definitely in the "home stretch" and I think the release date will come very soon. The preorder discount is still in place, but it will go away as soon as it is officially released. If you're going for this thing, I wouldn't wait too long. I also asked about the 4gig sys requirment, and I believe anyone with a reasonably recent processor and 4 gigs will not be disappointed. Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can! http://www.stevenathanmusic.com/stevenathanmusic.com/HOME.html https://apple.co/2EGpYXK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyman27 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 How did "on or about Feb 14" turn into some time after Feb 26? They sure didn't wait to take my money... they took it right away. But I'm still waiting for the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Grace Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Granted, I can see how that would be frustrating. But on the other hand, if they're using the extra time to make a better product, then you'll ultimately get more for your money and still save $50. Best, Geoff My Blue Someday appears on Apple Music | Spotify | YouTube | Amazon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 How did "on or about Feb 14" turn into some time after Feb 26? They sure didn't wait to take my money... they took it right away. But I'm still waiting for the product. OMG, a two-week delay? The horror! Surely you're familiar with how pre-sales work, yes? ...if they're using the extra time to make a better product, then you'll ultimately get more for your money and still save $50. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Zero Two Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Obviously none of you guys own a Receptor. That is a real test of patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Nathan Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Did they actually take the funds or is it a "pending" charge? Don't rush me. I'm playing as slowly as I can! http://www.stevenathanmusic.com/stevenathanmusic.com/HOME.html https://apple.co/2EGpYXK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keyman27 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 They took the funds. Went through on 2/14. I know, I am impatient, maybe being unreasonable. But what's left to do with the product? It sounds great in the demo videos, it's been beta tested for awhile, right? Me want piano sample now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 A year from now you'll have forgotten all about this delay. Unless it hasn't shipped by then either. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SK Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 I understand the frustration for sure. I've had some contact with them, but I don't know everything behind the scenes. I do know they expected to release it on the 14th, but found more tweaks they wanted to make (whatever they were). Something to keep in mind: Unlike a typical product release, we have TWO companies here (Vi Labs and Ravenscroft), each with very exacting standards, working together on a mutual product touted as "the best piano software on the planet" before its release. So the pressure is on and the expectations are high. I've heard it's already developed beyond what was demoed at NAMM, with both new and deeper features... so that's a 'win' for the consumer. I hope it won't be much longer, but with this positive little info to go on, it really should be "state of the art" when it gets here. CD: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/stevekessler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George88 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Poor Synthogy. At least they have good uprights, but I haven't used the grands since I got True Keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LX88 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 I am glad for the delay. I have trying to decide whether to take the plunge. Hearing that 4 gig of memory should do the trick with this is helpful. Seriously... any more than that and it gets kind of spendy just to run one program. Unless you are able to add memory to the computer. At the same time though , I am highly intrigued. Will this amount of computer power finally give us a satisfying amount of realism? I remember years ago when I chased that latest developments in cassette decks, thinking I could somehow get a cassette to reproduce the same sonic realism as the recorded source. I remember being very caught up in this. Huge amounts of money were invested in most of the major audio companies to try to perfect cassette tape playback systems. The fact was...the flaws inherent in cassette tape format could never be overcome ( particularly tape flutter issues, background noise etc. etc.) So we will see if digital piano sampling ( or modeling or whatever) can ever actually be perfected. Meanwhile, I guess the choice is to keep chasing the holy grail or be satisfied with what we already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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