The Real MC Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 This editor is brave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threadslayer Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Love it. I've finally come to terms with my own GAS. I have the same attitude toward my golf clubs. I have a very nice older set of Taylor Made irons. I promised myself several years ago that if I ever get to where I am outplaying my clubs and they are actually limiting my performance, I will spring for a custom made set of Callaway's or whatever the GAS boner set happens to be at the time. I don't expect it to happen anytime soon. Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. -Mark Twain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 "All those great records of old started with strong performances of great songs, and it was the studio's job to capture and enhance the music rather than to radically re-shape it or repair it." This statement excludes Bitches Brew and many other landmark albums of the modern era that could only have been created through radical reshaping. I understand the point Paul is trying to make, but there's more than one valid way to skin a cat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 "All those great records of old started with strong performances of great songs, and it was the studio's job to capture and enhance the music rather than to radically re-shape it or repair it." SOOoo true. Music to my ears.. it's men ( men used to refer to mankind ) that are chiefly responsible, not machines, for making wonderful music. You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I could make much better music if only I had better gear. Plus a talented person to operate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I could make much better music if only I had better gear. Plus a talented person to operate it. That's my situation with musical instruments and golf clubs, too. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 Sounds more like a mule or a bull than an elephant, also the room appears to be something else. Apart from that: even if a whole world of people denies there are technical reason as well (of course the talent reasons are agreed upon), there are. And for one reason or another the manufacturers of the synthesizers, keyboards, workstations and important effect equipment have, just like somehow Open Source has very much not like in the computer world, where Linux is the most mature and most professional system, "made it", not much "given away" the perfect sounds, put all the right patches in the workstations, and have collectively not given the keys away to making their equipment work like even a 60s A grade studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeronyne Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 To horribly paraphrase Sting, "Gear is its own reward." "For instance" is not proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 The writer's suggestion that all it takes is a laptop running a DAW with two inputs is a little bit naive. Fine if you like to do it all yourself, but I don't. I like a big sound, all live. My #1 band is 8 to 12 piece, and there could be a horn section in addition to that. That takes a lot of inputs, mics, cables, speakers, stands. I've spent more time acquiring, moving, assembling, and working on gear this year than I've spent playing it. There's gear for the studio, gear for lightweight gigs, the larger organ over piano rig, and it's nice to have a few extra keyboards to leave with people I play with. The Vent and the Burn may seem "unnecessary" when you have a Leslie 3300, but they're much lighter, smaller, and easier to use live. Do I really need a real piano, B3, and Clav? Yeah, I do, dammit! A handful of guitars and a bass too? Absolutely. I'm not just untalented, I'm multi untalented. --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I'm not just untalented, I'm multi untalented. Quote of the day. I've found my new sig. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 "I'm not just untalented, I'm multi untalented." Except with the ladies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I'm not just untalented, I'm multi untalented. Quote of the day. I've found my new sig. I was thinking the same thing as I read that, but you beat me to it. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 "I'm not just untalented, I'm multi untalented." Except with the ladies. Well, like Woody Allen said, I practice a lot when I'm alone. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillplaying Posted December 23, 2013 Share Posted December 23, 2013 I'd already read Paul White's editorial. Hadn't realised that's what this thread was about. His editorials are always interesting, he does a good review and he's a gigging musician himself - as well as having all that recording savvy. Man's got a point. The Beatles had three good songwriters and George Martin helped make the music happen with his vision and know how. Keyboard ran an article decades ago called something like How I Learned To Love The VL1. It was about stopping worrying about the things your gear won't do and working with what you can do with what you've got. Can we have an online archive with a good index please? Like Sound On Sound. I'm the piano player "off of" Borrowed Books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 That article says it all... to me, anyway. Of course, I know my music would sound better if I bought a Kronos. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Emm Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 What if a person IS talented, even multi-talented? So what? I'm fairly listenable and far better now than when I was a newbie with just a cassette deck & a Boss pedal, but a swelled head ruins your personal tuning. The other side of the 'white elephant' is that while its a pleasure to feel inspired and be able to bring it to fruition in a defining personal manner, "talent" is merely the starting point. As Wendy Carlos once astutely pointed out, "There are no shortcuts, just hard work." Talent doesn't provide you with anything but added fire for whatever creative process drives you. What I bring to the table musically that might be seen as above average by some is matched by my minimal ability to change my spark plugs. I cuss quite a bit then. Practice a little perspective. Don't allow yourself to become either too daunted or too arrogant. They can damage your brain's bit-rate. New gear doesn't send me into orbit anymore, either. The field of sound production has matured. We're now in a period of lofty refinements to super-expressive playability on one end (Vienna Instruments, as one example) and downright disposable, cheap instruments on the other. Instant-gratification consumer mindsets don't mesh well with the underlying expectation that you know what you're doing, or that you will devote 100 hours or more to completing a piece. Having the option of an all but unlimited number of tracks at 96 KHz, a convo reverb and a choice of 20 instruments brings it back to the starting point: Can you make something of it all when that space-cadet glow turns into beads of cold sweat on your forehead? If you think you need more than that, see "The Packrat." "I like that rapper with the bullet in his nose!" "Yeah, Bulletnose! One sneeze and the whole place goes up!" ~ "King of the Hill" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana. Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 By all accounts, Jordan Rudess is a keyboard virtuoso. He has all the technique and equipment he could possibly need to make brilliant music, right? And yet no one outside of musician and prog circles knows who he is. Gee, I wonder why. OK, back to listening to this for inspiration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyMary Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 By all accounts, Jordan Rudess is a keyboard virtuoso. He has all the technique and equipment he could possibly need to make brilliant music, right? And yet no one outside of musician and prog circles knows who he is. Gee, I wonder why. OK, back to listening to this for inspiration. Pleeeeease. He is the most successful non-frontman kb player of last decade. His music is appreciated by millions and he makes a decent living out of it. What more could you ask for?! And yes, he always uses the latest toys. Why not?! He's a rock star after all Stage: MOX6, V-machine, and Roland AX7 Rolls PM351 for IEMs. Home/recording: Roland FP4, a few guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzmammal Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I agree Rudess doesn't have the same name recognition as Mick Jagger but Dream Theater is pretty darn big nonetheless. I suspect if you or I had his level of success we'd both be very happy. Bob Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManInTheBox Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I think his premise is wrong. Most of us have accepted that we'll never be multi-platinum recording artist. The gear at our disposal was never the limiting factor. We buy new gear because we get bored, simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzikTeechur Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 There is another point to be made here - actually I think it's been made on other threads of the same nature: better gear CAN make you play better. It can inspire you, free you, help you to take chances you might not have if you were struggling with stale sounds or beat-up equipment. There's no substitute for good old-fashioned sheddin', but having a great axe to play goes a long way in the motivation department. Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine. HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Chorus, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, History of Rock, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncledunc Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 Today even fairly basic DAW software running on a personal tablet such as an iPad far exceeds the capabilities of the leading studios used during the musically productive '60s and '70s, yet most of us fall short ... Wrong. He's leaving out the importance of the microphone and the recording chain. Most of the studios in the 60's and 70's had the most expensive mics on earth at their disposal. So did the Beatles. Putting up the wrong mic/preamp/compressor can result in a very unpleasant sound. Depending on the source and genre, mic choice can make or break a production. Once the signal actually hits the microphone 90 percent of the job is already done ... Wrong again. Any studio engineer knows you can't "fix" a poorly recorded track in the mix. You can run it through various gear combinations to try to disguise how crappy it sounds, but you can't fix it. I'd say the editorial writer makes a valid point about the quality of the songwriting and production, but he's dead wrong about the gear - unless he's referring to a Black Keys type of grunge production where gear quality doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluMunk Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I don't spend money on gear because I think it'll be the key to success. . . I spend money on gear because it's a slightly healthier bad habit than hookers and blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I-missRichardTee Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 uncledunc you are alright! What about the room the recording occurs in? I recorded in those very cavernous studios in NYC... will ITB** recording substitute for a grand sounding room for your mic/ pre/ chain? ** In The Box= purely digital recording, making a wonderful sounding room, ostensibly unnecessary! Hmmm You don't have ideas, ideas have you We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Lots of the time, for me, messing around with new gear doesn't have anything to do with trying to compose and record some wonderful new piece of music. I just enjoy messing around with new gear. Michael Montage 8, Logic Pro X, Omnisphere, Diva, Zebra 2, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ITGITC Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 I don't spend money on gear because I think it'll be the key to success. . . I spend money on gear because it's a slightly healthier bad habit than hookers and blow. Have you been listening in on my conversations with my wife, BluMonk? I tell her this all the time. She just gives me this in return: "Music expresses that which cannot be put into words and that which cannot remain silent." - Victor Hugo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zahush76 Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 And more on the subject: [video:youtube] Vermona Perfourmer mkii, Nord Stage 3 76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManInTheBox Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 Today even fairly basic DAW software running on a personal tablet such as an iPad far exceeds the capabilities of the leading studios used during the musically productive '60s and '70s, yet most of us fall short ... Wrong. He's leaving out the importance of the microphone and the recording chain. Most of the studios in the 60's and 70's had the most expensive mics on earth at their disposal. So did the Beatles. Putting up the wrong mic/preamp/compressor can result in a very unpleasant sound. Depending on the source and genre, mic choice can make or break a production. Once the signal actually hits the microphone 90 percent of the job is already done ... Wrong again. Any studio engineer knows you can't "fix" a poorly recorded track in the mix. You can run it through various gear combinations to try to disguise how crappy it sounds, but you can't fix it. I'd say the editorial writer makes a valid point about the quality of the songwriting and production, but he's dead wrong about the gear - unless he's referring to a Black Keys type of grunge production where gear quality doesn't matter. What if we get to the point where microphones, preamps, & audio interfaces are completely transparent? Then ITB pres, compressors, eqs, impulse responses, summing busses.... I know we're not there yet, but we're getting closer everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrapperJack Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 There are thousands of expert, classically-based musicians who are not one bit famous. There is no connection between musical expertise and fame, and this is especially true in popular culture. What do you want to be: famous, or an expert performer, (engineer, composer, etc)? One of the things that annoys me about a very few "frequent contributors" to this forum is that they clearly are not high achieving performers, but they pretend they are. Why are any of us entitled to be famous? What have we created? Sorry, Jordan Rudess is not famous: poll your everyday friends. So why do people buy more hardware or software that will improve their capacity only 2% on what their existing gear will allow? Do they want to buy fame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuzikTeechur Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 One of the things that annoys me about a very few "frequent contributors" to this forum is that they clearly are not high achieving performers, but they pretend they are. Wow. I wasn't aware that there were prerequisites to posting here. Guess I'll be leaving now. p.s. I don't care if you're Liberace or a Rank Beginner: we all have a voice and something to say. If you're performing in Carnegie Hall or Clem's BBQ Shack: chances are you're the best keyboard player in the room, and that's enough. Muzikteechur is Lonnie, in Kittery, Maine. HS music teacher: Concert Band, Marching Band, Jazz Band, Chorus, Music Theory, AP Music Theory, History of Rock, Musical Theatre, Piano, Guitar, Drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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