The Elephant in the Room

[I-missRichardTee]

Hi David, I appreciate the humour and innovative approach of forum members with their avatars, etc. And in an internet world where we don't want people choosing how and when to bother us, I support the anonymity, and, indeed, I "hide" behind that myself. I want a quiet life.

 

But I don't mislead people about my interest, experience, qualifications, and achievements in playing and writing music, in teaching music, in what I've done, or where I've been. Whether you think I know anything about what I say can be readily assessed from my contributions ... as it can be for all of us.

 

I have certainly reacted to some blatant contortionist postings, just like I would if someone applied to my faculty with false degrees and false resumes. At the very least, in the context of this forum, it is deeply disrespectful.

 

If I discourage people from doing this misrepresentation, distinct to having fun, and being clever, then I think our whole community is better off.

 

Misrepresentation...Unsubstantiated.

[wmp]

Hi wmp.

 

"You're the dude I've nicknamed Preacher Jack."

 

I like it.

Yeah, that figures. It wasn't meant to be flattering. Your frothy evangelism does nothing for the subject matter. I haven't looked too closely at most of your posts because it seems that you're here to set up the Preacher Jack School of Music, mine for students, and question the skills, background, work ethic, and honesty of forum members. Other folks have been posting very helpful stuff here for years without the extra helping of brimstone and damnation. That's the way (uh huh, uh huh) I like it. Dave Frank posted some of his stuff here a year ago without your help and without forcing it down anybody's throat.

 

Not saying you don't know the subject, but you're the antithesis of what I'd want from a teacher. You remind me of Sister Mary Hitler (not her real name)..

 

 

 

 

[TrapperJack]

Hi wmp,

 

My first reaction to your posting above was simply to do nothing, to not engage with with it. I choose, now to respond, for three reasons:

 

1) I have more or less assured Joe that I do not "ignore" people and their contributions;

2) If such an outburst had come from a staff member, either in a staff meeting, or after they had made an appointment with me, I would deal with it;

3) Your "Sister Mary" reference is something of an alarm bell, in this day and age: it would be remiss of me to do nothing, when I could do something.

 

Now, if people don't look back, they might not see what I wrote most recently. And so I include it here:

 

Hi wmp.

 

"You're the dude I've nicknamed Preacher Jack."

 

I like it. From the Church of Support, Dialogue, Musical Ideas and Honest Sharing Between All Players and Listeners.

 

Did I say Straight Shooting, Helpfulness, Broad Taste and Hard Work Not Fiction?

 

Look back through my "less than 200" postings, and you will see I am a committed member of the Church.

 

Thanks for the mention.

 

OK, that's revisited.

 

I do note that you haven't paid a lot attention to what I have written in this forum, and so it might not have occurred to you that "froth" is not one of my trademarks. Plenty of froth in my music, but then film and television music, advertising and other commercial music "demands" froth quite often, and part of being successful is to do the business as required.

 

Just as an aside, I chuckled at your "That's the way I like it" reference: Does this wmp member know me? Back in the mid 70's, as an undergraduate, having returned to study after three years of playing for a living, this chart was one of my first, or very first, commercially successful arrangement. I tell you no lies. I had it's score bound, along with the other first 100 charts I succeeded with, and it is around the place somewhere. I have not bothered with preserving the other scores: one doesn't, with time.

 

Froth isn't me.

 

Next, if you ask an elite athlete, a tennis champion, say, who has turned to coaching, I assure you (for I have asked such questions of such people), that this coach has not turned away from the steps that made him or her successful. Nor do I. Read again the "gospel" I outlined above. But I have no need for further students.

 

Such an outburst would not occur from anyone I worked with, and for twenty years my staff has been over 100 professionals. They know, in the best professional way, better. I tell you no lies.

 

Finally, because we don't want to clog the forum with this exchange, I urge you, if you haven't done this, to sit with someone you trust, face to face, and talk through the "Sister Mary" issue, and, indeed, issues of the same context. Open things up a little, in a private consultation. I mean you all the best, here.

 

Good luck with your music.

 

[I-missRichardTee]

Can you, will you answer, in very few words, each of these questions?

Are you a teacher? Y or N. if Y, What aspects of music do you teach?

To have 100+ pros under your direction, sounds like a Dean of a college... am I close?

I have never known a teacher who can play the way people I respect can play the music I am interested in. Regarding BB King, CT, Herbie Hancock, Benson, teachers cannot help me; on the contrary, I could help them. Help them if their minds were open. Unfortunately, that is not likely the case- open to being taught themselves.

Last time: is Tee a phony?

edit In my experience.. teachers, arrangers, and players are three different skills.

 

[wmp]

Hi wmp,

 

My first reaction to your posting above was simply to do nothing, ...

I've often heard that the first reaction is the best reaction.

 

I do note that you haven't paid a lot attention to what I have written in this forum, ...

What I have read is a bunch of nebulous bull$#!t about people faking their resumes, claiming experience they do not have, and criticizing other people's work ethic. Not particularly endearing. At the same time I read nebulous bull$#!t about your faculty of 100 and vague references to your credentials and vast experience. And even advice about chair making, tennis, and psychology. You don't know jack about psychology. You mistake my best efforts at honesty and respect for an outburst.

 

I urge you, if you haven't done this, to sit with someone you trust, face to face, and talk through the "Sister Mary" issue, and, indeed, issues of the same context. Open things up a little, in a private consultation.

Thanks for your concern and your condescending paternal bull$#!t, but I settled that with the angry penguin herself a long time ago. That was an outburst.

 

... because we don't want to clog the forum with this exchange,

It's a little late for that, eh?

 

If you don't ignore people, why haven't you answered Tee?

 

[J. Dan]

Wow, this one sure went to hell in a hand basket.

 

I'm still a bit confused as to who is misrepresenting their credentials and how. Can you point out a single example? Just one?

 

Different people on here have different things to contribute, and I think they all stick to their respective areas of expertise when offering advice.

 

That said, and back to the topic, I don't expect any technology to make me better. For me, my last few purchases have been centered around efficiency - making it easier to do what I need to do, in less time, less weight, easier setup/tear down at gigs, etc. It's more about workflow and efficiency.

[I-missRichardTee]

J Dan ok ok I admit it I am a total fraud... lol

[J. Dan]

J Dan ok ok I admit it I am a total fraud... lol

 

Yep, me too. I've actually never had a paying gig and don't really own a Kronos. I don't have an engineering degree either, all my technical responses are just stuff I've copied and pasted from LearJeff. The Midwest KC hang was a real challenge as I had to be careful not to play any of the keys within earshot of other forumites as to not blow my cover.

[I-missRichardTee]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha We KNOW that is not true, don't we. A persons vibe eventually comes through even on cyber paper.

What did Lincoln say.. you can fool some of the people all the time, etc

Thank you J Dan, and the rest of you all, have a happy new year.

[wmp]

I'm no fraud. Earlier in this thread I claimed to be multi untalented and I can prove it. Not long ago I mentioned that I once had a roommate who called me stone fingers. It's true. My own grandmother used to call the cops on me for playing and blame it on the neighbors. When insults are hurled at unnamed wanna be chumps, I can't help but take a little offense.

 

[J. Dan]

I'm no fraud. Earlier in this thread I claimed to be multi untalented and I can prove it. Not long ago I mentioned that I once had a roommate who called me stone fingers. It's true. My own grandmother used to call the cops on me for playing and blame it on the neighbors. When insults are hurled at unnamed wanna be chumps, I can't help but take a little offense.

 

LOL! Wayne, you should write a book. You're full of some of the funniest, or at least most interesting stories. Maybe a reality TV show? I'd watch it!

[I-missRichardTee]

I'm no fraud. Earlier in this thread I claimed to be multi untalented and I can prove it. Not long ago I mentioned that I once had a roommate who called me stone fingers. It's true. My own grandmother used to call the cops on me for playing and blame it on the neighbors. When insults are hurled at unnamed wanna be chumps, I can't help but take a little offense.

 

LOL! Wayne, you should write a book. You're full of some of the funniest, or at least most interesting stories. Maybe a reality TV show? I'd watch it! [/quote

 

Yeah Wayne. You are gritty and funny

If you need a band for your upcoming show. You can use the forum for a band ! Maybe reality TV. You are definitely real.

[area51recording]

WOW cool thread....

gotta go now though....I've got brunch w/DeNiro in the AM, then it's off to the French Riviera for that gig w/the Stones.....

[Jazzmammal]

I was about to throw a ton of shit right on top of good ole Trapper but instead I'll come clean like all the rest of you guys.

 

All those shows I did in Vegas was actually me playing a kazoo in a clown suit in front of Caesars. 'scuse me while I wipe my eyes...

 

God, my life is complete, I feel so much better now.

 

Bob

[J. Dan]

WOW cool thread....

gotta go now though....I've got brunch w/DeNiro in the AM, then it's off to the French Riviera for that gig w/the Stones.....

 

This is just about the funniest contribution from a true pro!!!

[I-missRichardTee]

I just lost 3 gigs, one steady for 10+ years ( new age "church" )

and the nearly 2 year- 2 nights per week, jazz gig.. yuck. This promises to be an interesting year, for the Faker known as Tee! Funny thing my Dad was a singer ( pro ) many moons ago. He actually used the term a "faker"; meaning a musician who is "not legit" and who plays by ear, and doesn't read music too well. Here is an old pic of me ... Tee the Faker

http://p2.la-img.com/890/33714/13692418_1_l.jpg

[J. Dan]

Are you the monkey or the clown? I suck reading music. I'm an ear guy. I can read, but it's bad.

[I-missRichardTee]

Hmmmm monkey, clown, monkey, clown... a local pianist here uses the term "clown" sarcastically, regarding people who are not all that talented. I'm the clown!

[DulceLabs.com]

He actually used the term a "faker"; meaning a musician who is "not legit" and who plays by ear, and doesn't read music too well. Here is an old pic of me ... Tee the Faker

I suck reading music. I'm an ear guy. I can read, but it's bad.

 

+1, LIKE and thumbs up. And high five. Also a gold star and "atta boy".

 

Before the Interwebs, this book is how I would learn my songs. Great book, BTW. Just chords, lead line and lyrics.

http://images.guitarcenter.com/products/full/HalLeonard/634164056812750258.jpg

 

 

[timwat]

Of course, there's also Jerry the K's contribution:

 

http://media.wiley.com/product_data/coverImage300/91/11187054/1118705491.jpg

 

All kidding aside, Jerry is obviously a valued member here with a ton to teach. I'm seriously glad he wrote this (haven't browsed it yet) and I'm sure it will be extremely helpful for a lot of folks.

[MAJUSCULE]

You guys crack me up.

 

Tee, I feel like Herbie would be a good teacher. He seems to have the demeanour. Pretty sure he does the UCLA/Monk Institute stuff too.

 

Jack, I admire your work ethic (or at least the one you claim to have ). Thankfully, we don't all want the same things, and therefore don't all need to put in the work you do. kthxbye.

[I-missRichardTee]

Is Herbie giving private lessons now? I know he is on the faculty ( along with Wayne Shorter ) of UCLA, where one of my friend/ bandleaders is also on staff. Herbie is my Main Man.

 

[I-missRichardTee]

Of course, there's also Jerry the K's contribution:

 

http://media.wiley.com/product_data/coverImage300/91/11187054/1118705491.jpg

 

All kidding aside, Jerry is obviously a valued member here with a ton to teach. I'm seriously glad he wrote this (haven't browsed it yet) and I'm sure it will be extremely helpful for a lot of folks.

 

I think I know the name Jerry Kovarski from my days in New Jersey. Ask Jerry to PM me.

[J. Dan]

For me it's just a matter of how I spend my time. I've been playing in cover bands for over 20 years, and you have to learn them by ear. I used to be much better at sight reading, but if just rarely do it anymore except maybe learning some Christmas songs for the family.

 

This Christmas, my sister broke out the hymnal for us to sing some Christmas songs. I could get through them sight reading, but not without pauses and flubs. Luckily I didn't really have to, since the idea was for us to all sing a Capella. So I just gave us each our notes and we all site read our vocal parts...I sang tenor and my sisters sang alto and soprano parts. It actually turned out pretty nice.

 

But long story short, if site reading was something that was important to me, I'm sure regular practice is all it would take. But for what I do, that practice time is better spent learning songs (by ear) that will pay the bills!

[area51recording]

Agree 100% I'd like to be a better sight reader myself, but the fact is that it's a skill that only comes up on a tiny portion of the gigs I play. Being able to sort out tunes by ear is a LOT more of a useful skill for me right now. I think both ways are skills that develop (or atrophy) as you use them (or not).....

[MAJUSCULE]

I had to check to remember what this thread is about. Haven't seen the rails in a while...

[timwat]

I had to check to remember what this thread is about. Haven't seen the rails in a while...

 

Elephants, clowns, monkeys...it must be a circus!

[I-missRichardTee]

I distinctly recall the Beatles saying, they could no longer play live gigs, presumably because their music had become so produced beyond a quartet.

 

[allan_evett]

Picking up a copy of Jerry K.'s book is on my list. It'll help toward filling in those pesky gaps of knowledge that keep popping up - and will continue to pop up. These days, in addition to owner's manuals, I'll take all of the reference guides I can find.

It's all part of being mostly self-taught in improv and electronic keys. Somewhere, back there, I had around twelve years of classical study. It would take some intense work to get that level of facility back, though - especially my LH, which is rough in several areas.

Funny, despite a preference to play from charts / learn by ear, reading keeps finding me. I'm a fair reader - a lot of which comes from having stuff thrown my way on church gigs: I get hired to cover the contemporary side, but tend to get pulled over into the traditional / 'classical' side for various things.

 

The GAS EITR ? Lately it feels like I have plenty of synth coverage - between Rompler, VA, and SN tones; clonewheel, finally as well - with the updated Kronos organ engine. Live piano is where the GAS bug is biting at the moment. Seems that levels of DP dynamic interaction step forward strongly every few years; have been noticing that lately - both from playing a Roland FP50, and from reviews and audio / video samples of the CP4.

[wmp]

Humble apologies to the women, children, and innocent bystanders. There are so may threads in this basket and there's plenty of room for a few more.

 

http://b3and88.com/img/kc-hell-handbasket.jpg

 

I'll try to be civil. It ain't easy sometimes.

 

To stray back on topic a bit, I am very grateful for the steady improvements in the price the performance of a lot of gear. It's still a large pile of gear, and it's a lot of cash for me, but serious multitrack home and remote recording is doable now, where it wasn't so small or affordable decades ago. Reaper for $60 is an incredible value. A Midas Venice F32 for a little more than $2000 is also incredible bang for the buck that didn't exist a few years ago. Upgrading and updating the rig has been a constant for many of us. Streamlining the live rig, reducing set up time, and such.

 

True that it takes a lot more than gear. The sound source, the room, and the mic matter most. So I've been told. One of my current problems is the room. I need to find one that works in a hurry and get set up again. I'm living large for sound sources including my gear, the folks I play with, and their gear.

 

I've lost out on more than a few gigs for poor reading skills over the years. At my age with my eyesight, I'll never be very good at it. I doesn't matter so much because I'm more concerned with writing and arranging than reading these days. I'm slow and messy by hand, neater and slower in software, and downright neat and efficient if I let one of my other keyboard players do it for me.

 

There's a lot I can't do musically, but there's somebody in my band who can. I'm the only self taught ear playing chump. I'm not even the best keyboard player in my own band. The rest of them are schooled players, music teachers, choir directors and whatnot. But they're all perfectly comfortable working entirely by ear and writing what they prefer to read or not. The singers typically read annotated formatted lyrics using Italics where everybody is singing. Only an occasional reference to what notes they're singing. One of my favorite B3 players is a very skilled, schooled arranger. I get back beautiful, detailed, handwritten charts from the recordings and scribbles I give him.

 

 

As mentioned by many in this thread, it's a team effort that requires a lot of necessary ingredients. I can do a lot of different jobs, but there's a hard limit on how many of them I can do at once. Finding the George M (take your pick) kind of guy and a good roadie or two is a lingering problem. There was a time in my life when I could fake all that, fake playing and singing, and not fall down, but those days are over. Now that I have the tools and the musicians I want.

 

It's always something.

 

For the moment it's packing my hand basket and finding a suitable location for me and all my gear outside of Boston.