Theo Verelst Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Last week, I was practicing a Professor Longhair song (actually true, from one of as far as I know 2 albums "Crawfish Fiesta", which I have as the only song in HD), and yesterday I was listening to the song again, and try to tap my feet. I tried some Dr. John songs, dug a bit in my memory and presto: I know for sure you cannot learn New Orleans music with a metronome! T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Why would you want to? Just curious? I use a metronome for scales but that's about it. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 For Fess you may need 2 metronones. One for the right hand and one for the left. LOL. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 I don't know what Fess means, but I'd think there aren't enough opportunities for those 2 pure rhythms to come together in a good way, so that's a no. But funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I found the timing between the 2 hands on this Dave Grusin number very tricky indeed , theme from "the Firm" (awesome movie) > Dave Grusin plays like a killer machine . Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMEGZ Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 I don't know what Fess means, but I'd think there aren't enough opportunities for those 2 pure rhythms to come together in a good way, so that's a no. But funny. that was slang for the artists name actually Nw Orleans playing is about feel, breathing , not structured to a metronome, even solo but with a combo you play off the group, tempo is not locked just play it Theo... SpaceStation V3, MoxF6,PX5S,Hammond-SK2,Artis7,Stage2-73, KronosX-73,MS Pro145,Ventilator,OB DB1,Lester K Toys: RIP died in the flood of 8/16 1930 Hammond AV, 1970s Leslie 145, 1974 Rhodes Stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Paxton Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 That's just silly. [video:youtube]ne2qFL1M8oY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 That's just silly. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 FWIW. If anyone wants to get into New Orleans piano and is having rhythmic challenges from trying to cop the polyrhythm style Fess started you could maybe check out Champion Jack Dupree first. Champion Jack did some cool stuff. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Uehm, yeah, I did that, like in the 80s, he was called the Champion for a reason, very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Of course I have an opinion about tapping along with well known N.O. music style: there's dance in there, and there is a need for the players at hand to know to keep a pretty steady rhythm before even trying to play it! Evidently, the pulling forward and backward, and the funky mountains built by combined warm and heavy sounding chord and bass parts use musical wave tuning. Possibly the great players rhythmically and sound-wise tempo tune and average other signal properties as well, including what the various parts of band sound will favor in the reverberation. Very interesting. The piano example is good in that it is a rendering of the Tipitina's song, which even in a not so great way isn't easy. Clearly the metronome should at least be replaced with a decent rhythm track, which probably can have stable timing in the sense of the exact length ( 1/(BPM) ) of one or a few bars, I think. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I think Theo gets it, he's just looking for a clever way to end the sentence. For example . . . . . . would be like bringing a fishing pole to the desert. OK, I'm not feeling very clever on 2 hours sleep. Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAMEGZ Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 I think Theo gets it, he's just looking for a clever way to end the sentence. For example . . . . . . would be like bringing a fishing pole to the desert. OK, I'm not feeling very clever on 2 hours sleep. http://tienganhphothong.tienganh123.com/file/phothong/on-thi-dai-hoc/on-tap/vocab13/picture/hit-the-nail-on-the-head.jpg SpaceStation V3, MoxF6,PX5S,Hammond-SK2,Artis7,Stage2-73, KronosX-73,MS Pro145,Ventilator,OB DB1,Lester K Toys: RIP died in the flood of 8/16 1930 Hammond AV, 1970s Leslie 145, 1974 Rhodes Stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 That's just silly. [video:youtube]ne2qFL1M8oY My thoughts exactly, though I could never express them so eloquently. If you can't play it to a metronome, you're probably not doing it right. That said, it doesn't mean you should play it to a metronome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncledunc Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 Wasn't there a metronome thread around here recently? An interesting approach is to set the metronome to only play 1 beat per measure, leaving the player plenty of room for slipping and sliding around. The point of the metronome should be to make sure the beginning of the song is the same tempo as the end of the song, not to quantize the playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted November 10, 2013 Author Share Posted November 10, 2013 Well, you could eat a hamburger every second bar, with atomic clock accuracy. Or not! Seriously, the idea of syncing with a accurate time regime every now and then is of course eventually even a thing a composer (in this case of a New Orleans piece) could want to decide on, but maybe it's more that a landscape painter isn't the same as a portrait painter. But people only throwing paint at a canvas are probably not abstract artists... I think playing to a metronome is commonly known as making good sense and a necessary practice method. Learning swing probably isn't enough of an addition to play Prof. Longhair or Ellington, which is exciting, but hard. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brettymike Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I've never played along to a metronome ONCE ever . Brett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Weiser Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 For Dr. John (big favorite of mine) I found that playing along with the albums was much more enjoyable (and effective) than trying to slug it out with a metronome. https://www.theboywhowantedtorock.com http://www.weisersound.com https://www.facebook.com/weisersound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted November 10, 2013 Share Posted November 10, 2013 I thought I saw everything by Fess on YouTube but this was posted in 2013. I hadn't seen this one. I hate to start another thread today. [video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1vwDe9Z94 "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoken6 Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Surely metronome applies here as much as to any music with an underlying pulse? Fess/NO piano has a very clear beat underneath all those pulsating polyrhythms and syncopations, and metronome can help internalise that and make it fluent. As mentioned above, the idea of putting the metronome on fewer beats (as suggested by uncledunc), and Pat Metheny's method of metronome on the offbeat, have helped me improve my time with all sorts of styles. I'll relink to this of bassist Victor Wooten on how to use a metronome. Check out his opening objective: "to wean myself off the metronome so that the good time is coming from me". Cheers, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
area51recording Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I don't play anything like the New Orleans stuff, but as a casual observer, I can't imagine why you couldn't use a metronome in some way, just to keep the tempo steady thru the piece. For instance, while I like to use a metronome in a traditional way for scales, 2 part inventions, etc., I also like to practice stuff like Real book tunes with one. In that case I set the metronome to tap on 2 and 4, which I find helps me keep tempo, but also gives me a bit of room to breathe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 I'm no expert at New Orleans style, other than having tried some Dr. John solo transcriptions, and found them quite difficult. (I used to listen to "Night Tripper" in my adolescence!) I would only say that a little practice with a metronome cannot hurt anybody. After all, we do it with classical music and jazz, and of course that doesn't mean that we have to play with sequencer-like stiffness when we play the tune "musically", without the metronome! It's just a mean to achieve precision and control. Playing along with a record will give you the feel, but a metronome allows to slow it down until it's comfortable, for example. For New Orleans style, I would use the metronome on 1 and 3 (rather than 2 and 4 as in jazz/swing). To my ears, it has a feel like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Metronome? If you are performing some NO style stuff, what do you do when the drummer and bass player chime in? "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
area51recording Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 Why would you have a metronome around if you had a drummer and bass player handy in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted November 13, 2013 Author Share Posted November 13, 2013 Preferably get some digital piano that sounds deep, good, and especially, that will escape the pit of timing misery! Like I was trying out these pretty decent sounds (though far from perfect) which through my studio processing start to "work" IMO, but it's always fighting of "something" in the machinery (PC3 driven by S90 in this case) that interferes with the quite heavily usable sound: tstblueb.mp3 44.1 1 1/2 min T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Preferably get some digital piano that sounds deep, good, and especially, that will escape the pit of timing misery! I'm just guessing that any timing misery isn't the piano's fault. --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 Preferably get some digital piano that sounds deep, good, and especially, that will escape the pit of timing misery! Like I was trying out these pretty decent sounds (though far from perfect) which through my studio processing start to "work" IMO, but it's always fighting of "something" in the machinery (PC3 driven by S90 in this case) that interferes with the quite heavily usable sound: tstblueb.mp3 44.1 1 1/2 min T Theo is that you playing in that clip? "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmp Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 A metronome would probably be a good idea. --wmp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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