Yamaha CP4 - first impressions

[Polkahero]

I just spent an hour on the CP4. The only thing that bugged me at all is the key travel felt shorter than I am used to. Overall still a killer board.

 

I tried a Roland V-Piano today at my friend's studio. Shallowest key travel I've ever encountered, couldn't believe it! Also tried his CP1 and was surprised how much lighter the action is compared to the CP4 even though they're both wooden keys.

[WesG]

Oh, please, don't say that. I was just playing a CP1 the other day and thinking, "Geez, this almost seems like it feels better than the CP4 I want. Nah, can't be..."

 

Wes

[ElmerJFudd]

I played the CP1 three days straight, every chance I got, at NAMM 2010 when it was introduced and since then whenever I find one at a shop. The hammer action is not graded (graded meaning heavier touch on the bottom vs. the top range like an acoustic piano). It's consistent across the whole range. Feels better to play on than any Rhodes I've ever touched (I'm talking action specifically not tine and bark and everything else that makes a "real" instrument a real instrument).

 

IMHO it has more vibe than any other digital intended to take the place of an electromechanical (Stage 2 included). Solid build quality, the black "tolex", beautiful display, 3-pedal included, I wish they had done legs for it, though.

 

It will also cover your acoustic needs and give you a DX, Wurly, CP70/80 as well with all the right VCM FX and amps. It sounds and plays great, it's just too bloody expensive! ha ha

 

So now you are stuck asking yourself, for that price do I just go for the real thing in a VV or is it just more reasonable to use a digital? At just under 60lbs it totally kills the weight advantage of a CP4, it also doesn't have the big AWM2 library in it - which is useful at times. But it does more than a real Rhodes or a VV - minus the "real". Like a real Rhodes, I don't know if I'd carry it to gig or if it's a luxury for home play. Maybe for those special gigs.

 

What an fricken conundrum.

[Polkahero]

Oh, please, don't say that. I was just playing a CP1 the other day and thinking, "Geez, this almost seems like it feels better than the CP4 I want. Nah, can't be..."

 

Wes

 

Doesn't mean the CP1's action is better, just different. I myself prefer a heavier action so I definitely prefer the CP4's action. Not to mention the CP1 is a lot heavier to lug around and doesn't have near the sound set of the CP4.

[dsetto]

And ya' know the thing? I think all these paths are true. There isn't one. I'm not saying what you don't know. Just commiserating. -- I've got one voice saying go for portable purity & simplicity at expense of variety- VV. I've got another voice saying, keep your xf7. Bring in the CP4, and assemble the cp4-xf7-voyager path I've already begun. Whereas, a VV64 in one board hits of lot priorities. Either pairing of the trio above hits a whole lot of good as well.

[ElmerJFudd]

VV with MIDI is an option, but ads to cost and isn't any lighter.

[dsetto]

I have no personal experience with a MIDI-equipped VV. There's a VV-posted video of a MIDI-equipped VV that doesn't seem to track well enough for my wants. So for the sake of my CP4-XF7 vs VV64 comparison, I'm not counting on a MIDI'd VV.

[rickp]

[Previous post moved to new topic]

[agitato]

I've read some negative comments regarding the cp stage bag w/wheels that's available from yamaha that was designed to perfectly fit the cp4. Overall, how bad/unreliable,etc., is it, really?

[keyguy]

All of the above, in addition to being unbalanced.

[agitato]

What soft case would exactly fit the cp4 and have better build quality, wheel placement/operation, etc., and not be much bigger than the cp4 itself?

[Polkahero]

What soft case would exactly fit the cp4 and have better build quality, wheel placement/operation, etc., and not be much bigger than the cp4 itself?

 

You could try this semi-rigid case from SKB as it's not much longer than the CP4. In fact the CP4 will fit in so tight you'll barely be able to get it out! Found this out last week and sent it back. I ended up ordering this one instead. It's longer but weighs the same as the 76-key case. It's a narrow design which is nice but still plenty of room for the CP4. Good luck!

[JeffLearman]

In case anyone's missed it,

interview with Chuck Leavell at yamahasynth.com.

 

 

 

[dsetto]

I don't have any support question or issue at this time, but I am generally curious as to what particular AP and EP patches people prefer (if anything).

 

I find that I don't really have a favorite and that my preferences change according to the room (and my mood). Still curious about others' opinions.

I like all 3. So glad there's the S6. (It satisfies my upright want.) I start with the CFX. I also think the CP80 is terrific - when dialed in, or put in the right sound-chain.

 

rickp- great tutorial links in the support thread.

[timwat]

I use the CP4 almost exclusively for jazz gigs.

 

FWIW, I end up always using the CFX for AP, and the 75 model for EP.

 

EQ for taste, room and amp I'm using.

 

I continue to try the other two pianos and the other Rhodes models - almost every gig, still trying to see if there's a "fit" for one of them. But at the end of the day, I still go back to those two, and use the other tools to adjust to taste.

 

 

[dsetto]

tw, how's the SS working out for CP4's AP? -- I've finally played my CP4 through stereo near-fields (KRK-8's). Wow.

[dreamer65]

I use the CP4 almost exclusively for jazz gigs.

 

FWIW, I end up always using the CFX for AP, and the 75 model for EP.

 

EQ for taste, room and amp I'm using.

 

I continue to try the other two pianos and the other Rhodes models - almost every gig, still trying to see if there's a "fit" for one of them. But at the end of the day, I still go back to those two, and use the other tools to adjust to taste.

 

 

This. You've picked the candy from the box What do you do against the fan noise of your DXR's? I have a pair of DXR 10 to amplify CP4 which works nice with some eq'ing but the fans are quite loud in silent environments.

[WesG]

Has anybody here ordered the music rack? I ordered it, it came in, the e-mail from the store gave the same part number as the rack for the CP-33/330, does that make sense?

 

(It's over a hundred miles to the store, so I like to make sure they have the right stuff before I go get it!)

 

BTW - favourite piano so far is CFX St+ or CFX Mn+. I thought I read in here that "St" was for stretched tuning, not stereo, but then, what does Mn stand for?

 

This is an incredible piano, lots of depth to explore, I still have not scratched more than 5% of the surface. I am driven by upcoming gigs next week rather than my usual philosophy of "try everything". Although I have at least played each performance for a minute or two. I have also tweaked the Clav TWah performance so that it uses my FC7 for pedal wah. Boy, is that a lot of fun!!

 

I can't say enough good things about the action, either. I have taken to this thing like a fish to water. I can practically *feel* the hammers "thunk"ing off the low notes and "tank"ing off the high notes. I was worried it might be too stiff for me (nerve problems), but since this piano reacts so well to softer playing, I don't think it will be a problem. I also use the volume knob less with this piano, it has better dynamics than my DGX 620.

 

My only complaints so far are that there are no internal speakers, so I have to haul a monitor to rehearsals, and because there are no speakers, it's too small to stretch sheet music out on, so I have to bring a couple of music stands, too (for big band stuff). I can live with that. My other complaint is that I haven't found a good drum kit yet! That seems like a silly complaint, except that my 2006 DGX-620 sounds WAY better for drums. I like to play "finger kit" when showing drummers parts, it helps when they can hear them. And I normally use an electronic kit to do tom fills on Golden Earring's "Twilight Zone" toward the end of the guitar solo. Maybe I can pull some better drums out of the VR-09..

 

Wes

[drawback]

Has anybody here ordered the music rack? I ordered it, it came in, the e-mail from the store gave the same part number as the rack for the CP-33/330, does that make sense?

 

(It's over a hundred miles to the store, so I like to make sure they have the right stuff before I go get it!)

Wes

 

Hey Wes, I have the music rack. It's a standard CP rack that fits all the current line. I bought it so I wouldn't have to lug a music stand around for the (rare) binder gig but found out that the CP-4 gig bag's pockets are too small for the rather large rack. So I lugged it to one gig separately which is a PITA, and it sits really high and off the back of the piano, making the binder very obvious, compared to setting my fully collapsible music stand down quite low. So the rack is now just a piece of plexiglass in storage. Maybe I'll repurpose it as a SSV.3 baffle.

 

 

 

 

[rickp]

. . . BTW - favourite piano so far is CFX St+ or CFX Mn+. I thought I read in here that "St" was for stretched tuning, not stereo, but then, what does Mn stand for?

According to this discussion from the CP4 Pages At YamahaSynth.com (quite a bit of CP4 info there, btw):

 

+ = keybanks pich-shifted [sic] positive (up)

- = keybanks pitch-shifted negative (down)

In the case where not every note is sampled, the original key is tuned (pitch-shifted in half steps) either up or down to reach the next sampled note.

The result is a difference in certain timbre and character aspects.

Also, it appears all of the AP's are stretch tuned (and "St" does denote Stereo) except those designated "Fl" per this discussion I found when trying to resolve a tune match problem layering the stretch tuned AP's with EP's (which are not stretch tuned):

 

Bad Mister: You are offered both "stretched tuned" and straight/non-stretched tuned acoustic piano Voices (referred to as "Fl" or "flat tuned") for each of the acoustic piano modeled. (There is even a "Fl" version of the CP88 model). If you layer a "stretched tuned" piano Voice on top of a straight tuned Electric Piano you will experience what you have observed. The beating will be profound at the extreme edges.

 

If this bothers you (and it should), substitute the version of the acoustic piano Voice you are using: the CFX, the CFIIIS, or the S6; each of these modeled acoustic piano has 15 variations.... Those with "Fl" in the Voice Name will layer better with your selected E. Piano Voice... Which is not stretched tuned.

(The CP88 does not have as many variations as the fully acoustic models, but has a non-stretched tuned version as Voice 04: CP88 Fl)

 

So for example if you've been using the Voice: 01: CFX St to build your layer, substitute the Voice: 10: CFX StFl the flat tuned version of the CFX data.

If you were using the stretched tuned 01: CFIIIS St substitute the flat tuned Voice: 10: CFIIIS StFl

If you were using the stretched tuned 01: S6 St substitute the flat tuned Voice: 10: S6 StFl

 

[T]he difference between the "CFX St" model and the "CFX StFl" model, is the tuning of the source piano.

 

flat ................With the Flat curve, the frequency (in Hertz) doubles for each octave increment between keys across the entire keyboard.

 

stretch ..........The Stretch curve models the characteristic response of an acoustic piano. When compared with the Flat curve, lower keys are tuned slightly flatter; higher keys, slightly sharper.

 

At Yamaha we've been manufacturing acoustic pianos since the turn of the 20th century (1900). The stretched tuned piano is preferred by many players for its singing tone - for your purpose, layering with a second 88 note instrument, the non-stretched tune (Fl) versions were provided.

 

[sMatt]

sleepngbear, I think you made the wise choice, the CP4 action is THE most effortless for fast jazz improv ... and it has the better sound presence behavior for live performance. It's Rhodes are great too.

 

You must be playing different CP4's than I have as I would never characterize their action as "effortless."

 

Have you played numerous CP4's, or just one?

 

I do like the sound tho...

[dsetto]

I can't say enough good things about the action, either. I have taken to this thing like a fish to water. I can practically *feel* the hammers "thunk"ing off the low notes and "tank"ing off the high notes. I was worried it might be too stiff for me (nerve problems), but since this piano reacts so well to softer playing, I don't think it will be a problem. I also use the volume knob less with this piano, it has better dynamics than my DGX 620.

Congratulations on the CP4, WesG! I agree. I absolutely love the action, connected with sound. It's very rhythmically immediate. Are you trying the velocity curves? Currently, I'm using Wide 1 a lot.

My only complaints so far are that there are no internal speakers, ...

I haven't tried it yet, but I think phone-market, single enclosure, portable stereo blue tooth speakers may address this.

My other complaint is that I haven't found a good drum kit yet!

I'm actually very happy with the drum kits. I believe there in the other "other" section. I think the 1st one was a solid acoustic. I think adjusting the velocity curve for this helped. I liked how I was able to perform kick with greater depth than on my XF7. I'd almost think, kick & snare for expressive playing may be better on the CP4 with its weighted action, than on something like an XF7.

 

Was it your pursuit in making a DX7 an organ? I found that somewhere. That said, I tried a few straight up DX7 e-piano style patches, mellowed substantially with the LPF. I found them very satisfying, & intriguing to play on the weighted action. (Not related to organ, but, DX7 rather.)

 

[AllanH]

I was looking at the CP4, but would really like a triple-pedal assembly similar to what's on an acoustic piano (with half-pedal support). I cannot find one at Yamaha's web site under the CP4.

 

Is that available?

[sMatt]

I was looking at the CP4, but would really like a triple-pedal assembly similar to what's on an acoustic piano (with half-pedal support). I cannot find one at Yamaha's web site under the CP4.

 

Is that available?

 

just curious -- why would you want that?

[JeffLearman]

I think this is what you'd need to get, for $75 from Yamaha:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LP7AW?adpos=1o1&creative=55644138841&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKEAjwxKSoBRCZ5oyy87DimEcSJADiWsvg7Z4MR3eArHYaUGZco2e71PwRG68YO6grw915YvmATxoC0dbw_wcB

 

The CP4 has 4 jacks for pedals: 2 continuous, two switches. I believe this unit has one continuous pedal and two switches. I believe you can configure the CP4 to handle the two footswitch inputs to handle soft and sostenuto, but you'd have to check. I have no idea whether it supports half-pedaling for sostenuto.

 

Or if you prefer, this for $400 from Nord:

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LP7AW

 

That apparently has 3 continuous controllers. The CP4 has only two CC inputs, but you can use a CC as a switch, possibly needing an adaptor. You would need adaptors to swap T and S for the CC's, since Yamaha and Nord are opposite. But $400 is pretty steep!

 

 

[ProfD]

This past weekend, I played a CP4 again. The variety of Rhodes is nice but the DX Tines in that thing are killer.

[dsetto]

...but the DX Tines in that thing are killer.

+1

[dsetto]

I believe you can configure the CP4 to handle the two footswitch inputs to handle soft and sostenuto, but you'd have to check. I have no idea whether it supports half-pedaling for sostenuto. ...

Does the CP4 AP's react to soft & sostenuto pedal "commands"? I've never tried; but that would be useful.

[WesG]

Thanks for the feedback above. Lost track of this thread due to a crazy schedule.

 

I finally got to really play mine last night, for about 5 hours straight. I've had it for a couple of weeks now, but have been preparing for gigs, which meant I didn't have time to PLAY, just get patches and splits and yadayada ready. I spent all last night in a single performance, just playing the one sound. A CFX St+ that's been eq'd a bit brighter, played through Yorkville NX55Ps (which have a very healthy bottom end and smooth mid/highs).

 

I gotta say, this piano is the cat's ass. The action is fast and sensitive, and the sound is outstanding. I swear to God, I can hear the damn strings jangling in there.

 

BTW the other thing I really dig with this piano is the Wr77 with a bit of tremolo. Not ever having owned an electric piano, I never really differentiated much between Wurli and Rhodes patches. Now I do. Mother of God this thing is outta sight. I now know a bunch of stuff I thought was Rhodes is actually Wurli. I let a buddy play it between sets on Saturday night. He owned a 200 for about a decade, said it sounds and behaves just like the real deal.

 

Hey, am I the only one with issues with the drums? They are placed an octave too low, and if you move them up, it pitch-shifts them also and they sound like crap! Any chance I'm doing something wrong? I like finger drumming, it's easier to explain stuff to drummers by example.

 

Oh, and yes, that was me doing DX7 Hammond experimentation a couple of years ago. I've been too busy to finish it, but I've my unit programmed with some very usable patches. Leslie is best left to outboard units (e.g. Vent). My biggest unsolved hurdle was trying to map the loudness relationships of the upper tones and drawbars properly.

 

I can't believe I played piano last night for 5 hours and hands are still working. A testament to a light action and a good physiotherapist. I can't play my old PF-85 for more than 45 minutes without problems.

 

Wes

[JeffLearman]

I haven't tried them but most likely they use the General Midi drum key map, so you can't fault them for using a standard. Did you try the transpose key? I suppose that doesn't go past 11.