Limited ed RED Ventilator

[Tonysounds]

lol....I guess when you're there first, you can recycle.

 

When you're late to the game, you're "bringing out new products".

 

Mmmmhmmm.

[AnotherScott]

lol....I guess when you're there first, you can recycle.

Hammond recycled the same tonewheel technology for something like 40 years, with just occasional (and somewhat minor) refinements. Sometimes all you need is one good idea... most people/companies are lucky to have even that!

[Craig MacDonald]

I want to see what the Vent II offers from a capability point of view and if it upgrades the sound of the original Vent. I can wait; I'm in no hurry to upgrade the Vent. If the Vent II offers similar capabilities as the Burn and has up'd the ante with the sound that would be more appealing to me than to 'upgrade' to the Burn but in fact not upgrade the 122 sound. And if the Vent II costs $50-100 more than the Burn but the sound engine and features are upgraded, then in my mind I would justify the additional cost. And if the Vent II's sound engine isn't upgraded then I'll just keep what I have and walk away still happy.

 

DD,

 

I've made a number of recent purchases based on demos that I heard on the internet.. First was the Ventilator, then the Mojo, now the Burn, so I fully understand that a lot of us are forming opinions based on what is available on the net, and I think it just reinforces the importance of good video/audio demos.

 

I'm certainly not suggesting that the Ventilator isn't a great product, and I'm not suggesting that you need to go buy something new. The Ventilator might perfectly satisfy your needs, and for that matter, perhaps the mini-vent will do that too.

 

I was one of the first to order the Ventilator, and I absolutely loved it, and I've been one of neo Instruments strongest advocates over the last couple of years. However, I don't like what I'm seeing from them right now.. there's a lack of innovation.. innovation that I'm seeing elsewhere.. the competition is catching up and Neo Instruments aren't delivering anything new and innovative. At best they seem to be recycling their one product (and selling this recycled stuff for a premium price!). For example, how long have keyboard players been asking Neo Instruments for midi capability, allow me to trigger the rotary speed switching via midi? We've been asking for this since day one and they haven't delivered it... however the guys at Crumar have implemented it in the Burn.

 

This thread illustrates my point exactly.. we have a new Ventilator in RED.. and it's even more expensive!!!

We also have a new SMALLER ventilator, and it doesn't have all the features, but it costs almost as much.. WOW!!

[Craig MacDonald]

lol....I guess when you're there first, you can recycle.

Hammond recycled the same tonewheel technology for something like 40 years, with just occasional (and somewhat minor) refinements. Sometimes all you need is one good idea... most people/companies are lucky to have even that!

 

You really think this is a reasonable comparison given product cycles in the 40's and 50's vs today?

 

These day's "you snooze you lose"..

[AnotherScott]

there's a lack of innovation.. innovation that I'm seeing elsewhere..

...

For example, how long have keyboard players been asking Neo Instruments for midi capability, allow me to trigger the rotary speed switching via midi? We've been asking for this since day one and they haven't delivered it...

We're fortunate that the number of engineers in the world who have figured out how to do such an effective Leslie simulation in a module has increased from one to two. These are not commodity skills. I think your "what have you done for me lately" attitude is a bit unfair. Just because you've been asking for something doesn't mean that Neo should have been capable of delivering it. It's a small company making a niche product. If they don't have particular skill sets at the ready, it's not like they can necessarily just hire people who do. How many more Vents would they have to sell each year to pay just one more engineer's salary?

 

GSI and Neo came to their devices from different places. GSI started with things like VB3, where MIDI control was the *only* way to do anything. So they had plenty of MIDI control experience, but it took them years to grow into dedicated electronics. Neo was developed as a piece of dedicated electronics. So maybe it likewise requires some time for them to add the MIDI processing side. I hope we'll see it soon. But regardless, the Vent is still a great device, and will probably still be what some people will prefer, whether to get "that" sound or because they specifically don't like the way GSI's computer heritage has yielded something of a computer menu style interface that is less plug-and-play, less easy/direct to adjust, even though so many more adjustments are available. I really don't see why anyone needs to dis either of these companies. People will buy whatever floats their boat.

 

[Craig MacDonald]

there's a lack of innovation.. innovation that I'm seeing elsewhere..

...

For example, how long have keyboard players been asking Neo Instruments for midi capability, allow me to trigger the rotary speed switching via midi? We've been asking for this since day one and they haven't delivered it...

We're fortunate that the number of engineers in the world who have figured out how to do such an effective Leslie simulation in a module has increased from one to two. These are not commodity skills. I think your "what have you done for me lately" attitude is a bit unfair. Just because you've been asking for something doesn't mean that Neo should have been capable of delivering it. It's a small company making a niche product. If they don't have particular skill sets at the ready, it's not like they can necessarily just hire people who do. How many more Vents would they have to sell each year to pay just one more engineer's salary?

 

GSI and Neo came to their devices from different places. GSI started with things like VB3, where MIDI control was the *only* way to do anything. So they had plenty of MIDI control experience, but it took them years to grow into dedicated electronics. Neo was developed as a piece of dedicated electronics. So maybe it likewise requires some time for them to add the MIDI processing side. I hope we'll see it soon. But regardless, the Vent is still a great device, and will probably still be what some people will prefer, whether to get "that" sound or because they specifically don't like the way GSI's computer heritage has yielded something of a computer menu style interface that is less plug-and-play, less easy/direct to adjust, even though so many more adjustments are available. I really don't see why anyone needs to dis either of these companies. People will buy whatever floats their boat.

 

AnotherScott, that's a very reasonable perspective and I agree that the two companies have come at their product development from very different angles and that may account for the differences in the two products, as they exist today.

 

I would have not taken issue with these two NEO products had they been priced reasonably.. to charge a premium for painting a discontinued product a different colour is really quite outrageous, and I've made my point about the mini-vent for keyboards being a high priced afterthought enough times now, so I will leave it at that.

 

Maybe I'm just digging too deep here and it's time to go back to asking questions like "wow that looks great, what other colours does it come in"..

 

 

[Outkaster]

How Innovative does a Leslie simulator have to be? What do you want it to do your freakin laundry?

[GDP]

It could have a on-board fan, to complete the leslie experience.

[Sparky2]

I also love my original Vent (purchased as an early adopter). I think we are not giving Guido's team enough business credit. They obviously had a plan when they designed the Vent II and the Burn. A plan that included marketing (to guitarists and keyboardists). Obviously the delays in the new Vent allowed them to produce and market interim versions of their technology and see how they can work the market around the Burn. They have to know what they will be up against (price and feature comparisons) when they release the new Vent. And, if they are smart, the new Vent will have features and a price point that will make original Vent owners consider the upgrade. Simple business decisions. In the original anoucement or soon thereafter, Guido said something about the Vent II being what we want for the organ. I'm looking forward to seeing what the new product is all about.

 

Mark

[Craig MacDonald]

Mark,

 

I think that you're giving them too much business credit! There has been a long gap between the end of availability of the original ventilator and it's replacement the ventilator II.. That suggests to me that there's been either some poor planning or they've run into major problems with the new product. I suspect it's the latter, but recycling the discontinued product in different colours and charging more for it isn't going to help them build customer loyalty (as you can tell I'm not particularly impressed with this strategy), neither is putting out a product that is perceived by some (maybe just me) as an afterthought.

 

Obviously there are different opinions on this.. that is mine.

 

EDIT: BTW here's what is currently on the main page of the NEO instruments website...

 

-----------------------------

mini Vent soon to be released

 

 

Neo Instruments is introducing a smaller and lighter version of the Ventilator fine tuned for guitar. The mini Vent is a preset device maintaining the highly acclaimed sound engine of the original model. Features include 2 switchable presets, stereo output, true bypass and slow / fast / stop switching.

---------------------------

Note that there is no mention of the mini-vent for keyboard.. so for you guys who are suggesting that the mini-vent for keyboards isn't an after thought.. give this some thought! AND for those of you who think that NEO Instruments are doing a great job of running their business, why aren't they promoting both the keyboard and guitar models of the mini-vent??

 

Maybe some of you don't care what's going on here.. but I am VERY interested in what is happening in the leslie sim market, and I'm really anxious to see how this all plays out!

 

[Craig MacDonald]

How Innovative does a Leslie simulator have to be? What do you want it to do your freakin laundry?

 

Well, I think that adding presets, midi connectivity, switches that don't click, upgradeable OS, along with numerous different leslie and amp sims as well as other effects is pretty innovative, and that's sort of what I was thinking.

 

 

[Craig MacDonald]

I'm really not sure why a number of you are jumping all over my case? I am merely expressing an opinion and questioning what's going on here..

 

Here we are with the Burn pedal being released with all it's extra features, and the Hammond Suzuki "real" leslie pedal that was announced at NAMM in January, with scheduled delivery in April, is no where to be found. Neither is the Ventilator II despite the original Ventilator being out of production for months now..

 

Am I the only one who's wondering what's going on here?? Has the HS Leslie pedal been shelved? (I hope so because if it's based on the SK sim it's going to suck).. have NEO instruments run into major technical problems with their Ventilator II or have they gone back to the drawing board because the Burn has leap-frogged their Vent II design..

 

Am I the only one who's questioning all of this??? Do the rest of you guys really just want to know what other new colours the ventilator comes in??

 

 

 

 

[b3halt]

Yes, the Vent Limited Ed is expensive. It's only available at Thomann. I had to buy it because I left my original Vent in my home country, and I needed the Vent with the SK1 and C2D here since I have four reagualar gigs every week. I couldn't stand playing with their onboard sim. (By the way, in my opinion, the onboard sim of the Mojo isn't great either. I stopped gigging with the Mojo for a couple of reasons, and I do not wanna talk about it in public.) Anyway, I don't buy used stuff usually, so I contacted Guido K. and many other shops, and they all didn't have the Vent in stock anymore. (Even Guido K. didn't have any.) So, when the limited edition came out surprisingly, I had to get it. Yes, it was more expensive than the original Vent, and it was only available at one shop. Anyway, the red Vent is just a limited edition, and there are not many available. I don't see it as recycling. It does look good with the C2D and the SK2 although I don't care about the look.

 

Sometimes business doesn't go as you planed. As I know a little bit more about Guido K., he tests a lot before his products become available. If there are problems, he really takes care of them as soon as possible. The Vent has been very reliable. This is very important because one of the clone organs I used to use died in the middle of my solo when I was playing at a festival. It was so embarrassing. With the Vent, I never had problems like this.

 

If products are expensive or you think it's overpriced, you have a choice not to buy it. I really do care about good products with reliability. The Vent II will probably come out late this year or early next year, and we have to wait for a while. Yes, it's not great, but if the Vent II is very reliable and sounds great or even so much better than the original Vent, I will probably get it even if it's more expensive. Yes, price is important, but reliability is even more important in my opinion.

[AnotherScott]

have NEO instruments run into major technical problems with their Ventilator II or have they gone back to the drawing board because the Burn has leap-frogged their Vent II design..

 

Am I the only one who's questioning all of this???

Yes. ;-)

 

Really, you seem to be getting awfully worked up about questions that that no one outside the companies will know the answer to, and that are kind of academic anyway.

[AnotherScott]

So, when the limited edition came out surprisingly, I had to get it. Yes, it was more expensive than the original Vent, and it was only available at one shop. Anyway, the red Vent is just a limited edition, and there are not many available.

It is kind of interesting that it's only at one shop, there's not even any reference to it on the Neo site... and as far as I can recall, it didn't come into existence until Neo posted that there were no more available. Maybe someone had some inventory and modded them. Maybe as a way to make more money on a scarce product without making it seem like simple price gouging by just raising the price for nothing (though there is the added appeal to Nord owners). I wonder if anyone knows whether in fact Neo themselves produced this red version? (Not that it really matters... if you want one now, it appears to be the only game in town.)

 

[Joe Muscara]

have NEO instruments run into major technical problems with their Ventilator II or have they gone back to the drawing board because the Burn has leap-frogged their Vent II design..

 

Am I the only one who's questioning all of this???

Yes. ;-)

 

Really, you seem to be getting awfully worked up about questions that that no one outside the companies will know the answer to, and that are kind of academic anyway.

This.

[Craig MacDonald]

have NEO instruments run into major technical problems with their Ventilator II or have they gone back to the drawing board because the Burn has leap-frogged their Vent II design..

 

Am I the only one who's questioning all of this???

Yes. ;-)

 

 

Well once again I disagree.. I think that by questioning this stuff, a couple of things HAVE come out.. first a couple of people have confirmed/stated that the Vent II (and perhaps the mini-vent) have had some technical issues that are responsible for the delays.. Second, it's also been stated that the Vent II may not be available until the New Year..

 

Well, I happen to think that this might be of great interest to anyone who might be trying to decide between the Burn or the Vent II or the vapour that is the HS "real" leslie pedal.

 

This forum is all about exchanging information.. I happen to think that's what's gone on here..!!

[mate stubb]

But since those statements have been made by people outside the company, they are meaningless rumormongering, no?

 

All we are exchanging is speculation. The only actual facts to base your buying decisions on are what is available to purchase right now.

[Craig MacDonald]

Moe,

 

Neither the Vent II or the "Real" leslie are here.. those are the facts.. I'm simply trying to ascertain why they're not, and "where there's smoke there's fire" as they say...

 

Perhaps a Hammond Suzuki rep should join us and explain the delay (actually as I say this and look at their website it has just been updated from an April delivery date to November so perhaps someone is listening).

 

Same thing with Neo Instruments.. their website doesn't even mention the Mini-vent for keyboards!!! AND despite all this hype about the Vent II there's nothing on it there either. So this is ALL rumours, and even those who have stated they're waiting for the Vent II are waiting for a rumour.

 

That's what we all do, and I'm simply trying to separate the flyshit from the pepper. What is rumour and what is reality. I don't look at it as rumourmongering at all.. I'm trying to figure out what the truth is, because I think that will be valuable to the community here.

 

[vanderSchoot]

Do people really believe the attempt of the ventilator's fullrange 122 cabinet can be signifficantly improved ?

I am absolutely sure that the new vent.2 has some extras and different cabinets....whatever......but the basic sound is simply what can be achieved without real moving air.

 

The Dynachord CLS222 from the eighties wasn't improved for a very long time, not through the Hughes and Kettner Rotospheres, Korg G4, Boss or Dynachord's own NEXT model....only since the ventilator came out the virtual leslie was truly bettered.

I don't understand that people do not simply enjoy what the vent does....if you want other effects there are plenty of good stompboxes out there with or without real and/or gimmickly added flashy tubes

 

I for one would not buy a BURN with the equipment I have/need, because I only want a solo organ keyboard which simply immitates an organ with leslie.

With the new HX3 and vent I can make any John Lord crunch by simply combining the overdrive of both units by turning simple knobs....(drive/vent - gain 122amp/HX3).Extremely extravagant crunch.

What I want to say is that I don't hope the vent2 looses its simplicity, because I would't buy it if I can choose between 10 different leslie models, 20 different tube amps, mig tubes, ax7 tubes etc.

 

The Original vent is just perfect and it doesn't need to change.

How many people regreted selling their CLS222 seduced in buying a supposed better, multifunctional device........were they sorry.

Till now the vent does what it does better than anything out there by a good margin (stand alone device).....I would also disagree when I just

purchased a BURN....I suppose.

 

 

P.S I don't know the BURN, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

 

But I do not Always believe people and their new gear defence meganisms.

I remember people dwelling over the superiour MOJO sim., better than Numa/KeyB and at least on par with the ventilator...

Now the first people arive telling BURN is better than what MOJO (internal) has to offer........see ?? And I still hear the vent is the best of the bunch, based on online recordings that is.

[M_G]

 

Nothing beats the Vent ! (nothing other than the real deal, maybe)

 

The burn is indeed a nice little efx box, that does a good leslie sim too,

but it is not a "a game changer" like the Vent was.

 

I bought the burn and I like it for what it is and sounds like.

The features are great. I bought it because it has Reverb, Midi and a

headphone out.

For the leslie algorithm alone, again, nothing beats the Vent!

 

my 2 cents....

 

[mate stubb]

Moe,

 

Neither the Vent II or the "Real" leslie are here.. those are the facts.. I'm simply trying to ascertain why they're not, and "where there's smoke there's fire" as they say...

 

 

I understand, but my point stands - you cannot ascertain "why not" unless you are inside the company.

 

No manufacturer of either software or hardware with any wisdom is going to announce actual availability until they KNOW that they can deliver.

 

Neo may be having trouble with the design. They may be having trouble getting parts. They may be having trouble finding a manufacturing facility. They may have found a manufacturing facility but it burned down or fell down in an earthquake. They may have working prototypes but are unable to build them for a competitive price. They may have decided to retool the design because new devices are coming on the market.

 

It doesn't really matter. Make music with what you've got!

[AnotherScott]

Neither the Vent II or the "Real" leslie are here.. those are the facts.. I'm simply trying to ascertain why they're not

Then you should email Guido and Scott May. At least then maybe you'd get an answer. You're not going to get it from anyone here (unless one of them stops by). But I'm with Moe, it doesn't matter. Whenever these things come out, that's when we'll have the ability to evaluate and purchase them. They're not here today, and any explanation they may choose to provide would not change anything. A little speculation never hurt anyone, but it's hardly anything to be bothered about, IMO.

 

Same thing with Neo Instruments.. their website doesn't even mention the Mini-vent for keyboards!!! AND despite all this hype about the Vent II there's nothing on it there either. So this is ALL rumours, and even those who have stated they're waiting for the Vent II are waiting for a rumour.

 

That's what we all do, and I'm simply trying to separate the flyshit from the pepper. What is rumour and what is reality. I don't look at it as rumourmongering at all.. I'm trying to figure out what the truth is, because I think that will be valuable to the community here.

I didn't think the future existence of a Mini Vent for organ and a Vent II were rumors, I thought Guido had confirmed them, no? Anything that is not from Guido or some other official source (vendor's web site, etc.) I would consider unfounded and completely speculative, and generally a waste of effort going on about.

[ITGITC]

 

OK. I'm ordering a round of beverages for all.

 

It's mandatory.

 

What'll you have?

 

 

[Joe Muscara]

Same thing with Neo Instruments.. their website doesn't even mention the Mini-vent for keyboards!!! AND despite all this hype about the Vent II there's nothing on it there either. So this is ALL rumours, and even those who have stated they're waiting for the Vent II are waiting for a rumour.

Craig,

 

1. I posted the other day in this thread about the mini Vent info on the Neo Vent Facebook page. So there is *official* info out there about it.

 

2. A quick look on the same FB page turns up this about the Vent II and the rack version.

 

NEWS UPDATE In answer to many questions - As of today, the Neo Ventilator 1 is no longer available as a new product. Most dealers are out of stock, and unfortunately, there will be a gap in supply until the new Ventilator products ship. The first new product will be the Mini Vent, which will be available for purchase in mid-September. It will include the famous Ventilator drive and user programmability. Neo has taken extra time to add as many features and controls in this small package and it looks and sounds amazing. Like the name implies, the unit is smaller, less expensive, and has less features than the original Ventilator. But most importantly, it has the "soul" of the original Ventilator in it, and sounds great.

 

Good things come to those who wait - for keyboardists: the updated Ventilator (which I will call the Ventilator II) is projected for delivery for late 2013 or early 2014. It will be a pedal like the original Ventilator, with different cosmetics, and some slight feature tweeks and updates that you've been asking for. Neo also has plans for a rack mount version sometime in 2014. The Ventilator has been used on so many tours this summer, including the Rolling Stones - we thank everyone for your support. Neo is ready to up the ante and the new series will be even more amazing, but keeping the soul of the machine intact.

 

Digging around on that page will give you as much info as anyone should probably need.

 

https://www.facebook.com/neoventilator

 

Sometimes when there's smoke, there's just smoke.

[Craig MacDonald]

Really? All of you guys who spend hours talking about these products and speculating about various different things, all of a sudden have changed your mind and now this kind of speculation is a waste of time.. ?

 

Here we have Hammond Suzuki who, on one hand, announce a product (leslie pedal) with great bravado at Winter NAMM with a delivery date of April and here we are in October and it's not available yet? That's a really very poor business practise, designed to stop people from buying competitive products and instead wait for our fantastic "real" deal!!! That's BS!!!!!

 

Then on the other hand we have the bunch at Neo, and everyone seems to know about their Ventilator II that's coming out, but nothing is announced.. and no one is really sure what the f@#$ they're bringing out.. when the mini-vent for guitar was announced everyone was asking where's the keyboard version, and where is it...? I think it's here... is it? Oh there's a picture of a box with a tiny "keyboard" stamp on it..

 

Seriously ..??!!??

 

I have a gig to go to.. trying my new Burn tonight..

 

 

 

[Synthoid]

OK. I'm ordering a round of beverages for all.

 

It's mandatory.

 

What'll you have?

 

Mandatory? Cool... let's do that more often.

 

I'll have a Dogfish please.

 

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m109/beanbone/Dogfish_Head_90_Minute_IPA_200.jpg

 

 

 

 

[ITGITC]

 

 

Sometimes when there's smoke, there's just smoke.

 

But a really good friend would bring over a six pack too.

 

 

[Synthoid]

Wish granted:

 

http://www.stogieguys.com/sg-content/uploads/2007/05/samadams.jpg

[Aussie_Chicago]

Im not sure what all the fuss is here, Ill patiently wait till the vent 2 is released, test drive it, and decide then what direction to go. But anyway, heres the US distributor if that helps.

 

http://www.gand.com/products/mini-VENT-for-organ-69122.html?sid=be30ae303136827f4350e2c26757cd3f

 

I still lug a road chopped 147, because that is a "real leslie"

 

Oh, and if your taking drink orders, Jack and Ginger will suffice....make it a double