surreal mccoy Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Yes, I've used a Vent with the SK2. Sounds great. The internal sim is very good, too. Have you seen my video yet? That's the internal sim. Direct into ProTools. It doesn't matter how good the sim is, though, if your amplification isn't up to par. You still need to invest in quality speakers. Very cool...thanks for sharing this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surreal mccoy Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Any thoughts on the Key B Solo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Surreal, are you already an organ player? By that I mean have you played and owned real tonewheel hammonds? Are you used to the control layout on a real console and are those things important to you? Or are you just starting to get into organ without any habits? There are lots of other things to think about than the minute details of sound. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surreal mccoy Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Surreal, are you already an organ player? By that I mean have you played and owned real tonewheel hammonds? Are you used to the control layout on a real console and are those things important to you? Or are you just starting to get into organ without any habits? There are lots of other things to think about than the minute details of sound. I'm primarily a Jazz pianist, although I also perform on various digital keyboards. And yes, I've owned 2 A100's w/ Leslies 122 & 147 over the past 30 something years. I realize I might sound all over the place at times mostly because sound/ tone is very important to me. I don't even know at this point if it would be feasible to give up the lower organ manual and bass pedals....I just know that the weight issue of even a 300 lb. Hammond B3 MK2 would be out of the question. I'm honestly leaning towards ordering the Mojo.....I just wish I could sample one in person... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Where are you located? A few forum members own the Mojo, maybe one near you. "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surreal mccoy Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Where are you located? A few forum members own the Mojo, maybe one near you. I'm in central and northern Calif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 It doesn't matter how good the sim is, though, if your amplification isn't up to par. You still need to invest in quality speakers. Jim is Right On! Something I see so many musicians neglect is powerful, ACCURATE sound reinforcement. I played with everything until I found the right rig for me. And that turned out to be twin EV 360's! This past weekend at NAMM I asked the product manager at EV why they discontinued them. He told me that they were so expensive to make that their price point was just too high. They used two high end amplifiers in each, and the same 2" driver that they use in their super high end concert speakers. The speakers originally had an MAP of about $1200... You could get them on the street for $1000, and they finally blew them out at $700! But in today's world of cheap Chinese labor, cheap composites, lower quality amps and drivers... EV is now selling their "comparable" speaker for $400! It's half the sonic and build quality of the 360, but less then half the price. As we have all discussed in the past few days, it seems that most of our colleagues will sacrifice quality for a less expansive product. So when I retired I sold my pair to a local DJ who loved the fact that he only had to pay half price for these gems. He told me that he already owned four and that they were the best speakers he had ever heard... I was not a stranger to that comment as whenever I brought one to a large venue as my personal monitor, the sound guys would come over to check it out. They always told me that they loved those speakers.... I had a gig several weeks ago and borrowed my friend's K12's. Hated them! When pushed their frequency response became very uneven... Not a good thing for piano or organ... I decided to outfit my studio with new speakers and have been auditioning speakers for months... I could not find anything I like.... So yesterday I discovered a company who still had 2 NOS 360's it their warehouse.... I bought them for $450 each! So the moral of the story is.... Do not compromise for price! In the MI world you usually get what you pay for. Why pay $2000 for a great Hammond Clone and think that it will sound good through $500 speakers? And like finding a good wife or husband, once you find those magical speakers, do not get rid of them! Chances are you will never find a suitable replacement. '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJPatton Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 So you're saying people should ditch their QSC's and look for better speakers? I say bunk, the difference is negligible at best, I have no doubt there are higher quality speakers, but I do have doubts that anyone can tell the difference once the band starts, and that those higher quality speakers don't come with a cost in precious power without hooking up more equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tucktronix Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 So you're saying people should ditch their QSC's and look for better speakers? I say bunk, the difference is negligible at best, I have no doubt there are higher quality speakers, but I do have doubts that anyone can tell the difference once the band starts, and that those higher quality speakers don't come with a cost in precious power without hooking up more equipment. +1 Kronos 88 Platinum, Yamaha YC88, Subsequent 37, Korg CX3, Hydrasynth 49-key, Nord Electro 5D 73, QSC K8.2, Lester K Me & The Boyz Chris Beard Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusker Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Perhaps I should just get a couple of Orange stacked cabs and use a wah-wah pedal....then maybe I'll not have to worry about cutting thru..? It's a solid idea. We keyboardists tend to have a blind spot when it comes to amplification. CEB is absolutely on point when he says that good tubes sound better when pushed. If someone has a good leslie on stage, then that not only gives you dynamic tone, but a point source for the audience's psycho-acoustic cues, even if the PA is providing a lot of the sound. John Medeski uses dedicated point source amps on stage for each of his keys. Jan Hammer is another example. We often talk about how his tone was a function of the Minimoog mated with Oberheim Sem. Yet he ran a clean channel and an amped channel in parallel, both live and in the studio. So why do we so easily forget the tubes in his 200 watt Marshall head when we talk about his great synth tone? I am not dissing high quality PA-style speakers, but you've got make sure you have enough headroom to keep up, and your sound sources need to have the tone you want. Otherwise, it's a great idea to get tone from an amp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig MacDonald Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Ilove my QSC K10's!!! Craig MacDonald Hammond BV, Franken-B (A100 in a BV cabinet), Leslies 122/147/44W, Crumar Mojo, HX3 module, Korg Kronos, VR-09, Roland GAIA, Burn, Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 KC500. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEB Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 In terms of cutting the KC500 and KC550 work well. That honky midrange does cut through. "It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne "A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!! So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 In terms of cutting the KC500 and KC550 work well. That honky midrange does cut through. True but the tweeters in the KC500 I had in the late 90's kept blowing. I must have replaced them 5 or 6 times before I finally wised up and bought a pair JBL EON15 G2's in 2001. These definately cut through the mix, to the point where I could finally do a smackdown on loud guitar God wannabees. I'd love to replace my JBL's with a more portable and powerful QSC K10, but the price is too steep for me right now. As a result, I'm now going to try to check out one of the new portable 1000 watt EV 12's that were just shown at NAMM and are, according to Hammonddave, going to supposedly sell for $399. Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surreal mccoy Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 It doesn't matter how good the sim is, though, if your amplification isn't up to par. You still need to invest in quality speakers. Jim is Right On! Something I see so many musicians neglect is powerful, ACCURATE sound reinforcement. So the moral of the story is.... Do not compromise for price! In the MI world you usually get what you pay for. Why pay $2000 for a great Hammond Clone and think that it will sound good through $500 speakers? This makes perfect sense to me! My greatest sound struggle thru the years has been locating amp/ speaker combinations that give me the full range of sound I need for my own monitor mix onstage. It's been difficult to find something with enough power along with the right range to project when I need the sonic clarity for piano/ synths + a strong defined LH bass! I still have an older pair of Yamaha MS400 active cabs....decent range except they're not designed to be nearfields... After all the positive comments on the forum about the QSC K10's....I was hoping that might solve some issues...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delaware Dave Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 As a result I'm now going to try to check out one of the new portable 1000 watt EV 12's that were just shown at NAMM and are, according to Hammonddave, going to supposedly sell for $399. If you are talking about the ELX112P's, check the comment I just put in this thread (dated 1/31/13): https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2463670/Using_powered_speaker_as_an_am#Post2463670 57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil Forte7 & PC3; M-Audio Code 61; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini & Burn Delaware Dave Exit93band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 True but the tweeters in the KC500 I had in the late 90's kept blowing. Frankly, I thought the tweeters, woofers and everything about the KC500 blew. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 As a result I'm now going to try to check out one of the new portable 1000 watt EV 12's that were just shown at NAMM and are, according to Hammonddave, going to supposedly sell for $399. If you are talking about the ELX112P's, check the comment I just put in this thread (dated 1/31/13): https://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2463670/Using_powered_speaker_as_an_am#Post2463670 Thanks. Based on all of the words of wisdom in that thread I'll probably just hang onto my pair of JLB Eon G2 15's for the time being. They are a bit long in the tooth but the new EV's may not be much of an improvement. Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 True but the tweeters in the KC500 I had in the late 90's kept blowing. Frankly, I thought the tweeters, woofers and everything about the KC500 blew. Yeah after I spent a several hundred bucks replacing the cheapazz tweeters 2 - 3 times in the KC500 I realized that it was far nore cost effective (and better sounding) for me to go with high-quality powered speakers and a mixer (duh). But I was still young, dumb, and full of @ at the time because I had just turned 40. Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 So you're saying people should ditch their QSC's and look for better speakers? I say bunk, the difference is negligible at best, I have no doubt there are higher quality speakers, but I do have doubts that anyone can tell the difference once the band starts, and that those higher quality speakers don't come with a cost in precious power without hooking up more equipment. Oh, I can tell the difference... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelHg Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Someone asked this earlier in the thread, but I didn't see an answer. Any thoughts on how well the VB3 software measures up against it's use in hardware instruments like the Mojo and Hamicord? Personally, although it took some getting used to, I'm liking the VB3 on a weighted 88 note controller that I also use for piano. Of course, the layout is different, but I think it's a closer organ experience than an SK1 or Electro 3 because of the extended range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Someone asked this earlier in the thread, but I didn't see an answer. Any thoughts on how well the VB3 software measures up against it's use in hardware instruments like the Mojo and Hamicord? Look again, I posted about it. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 Personally, although it took some getting used to, I'm liking the VB3 on a weighted 88 note controller that I also use for piano. Of course, the layout is different, but I think it's a closer organ experience than an SK1 or Electro 3 because of the extended range. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Personally, although it took some getting used to, I'm liking the VB3 on a weighted 88 note controller that I also use for piano. Of course, the layout is different, but I think it's a closer organ experience than an SK1 or Electro 3 because of the extended range. Sure, makes sense. :idk Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Personally, although it took some getting used to, I'm liking the VB3 on a weighted 88 note controller that I also use for piano. Of course, the layout is different, but I think it's a closer organ experience than an SK1 or Electro 3 because of the extended range. this is truly a WTF? comment. I'm gonna have a few more beers and re-read it and see if it makes any sense at all then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charleston Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Oh, you mean like this: http://www.noisemademedoit.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/pipe-organjpg1-700x466.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surreal mccoy Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 Not to diss or defend the dude that proclaimed his 88 weighted board to extend his organ experience or whatever... But OTOH.. what about Hammond making the new 88 SK board...? Are they trying to appeal to pianists seeking a non-weighted board to play piano on....or trying to market an 88 extended organ experience...??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonysounds Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Covering all bases McCoy. And while I'm not one of them, there are plenty of organists who play multi-keyboards (just like us piano players!), and they prefer a non/semi-weighted action. I can remember reading Chester Thompson saying he could never understand the guys who could play organ and then move to a piano or Rhodes and have to make no adjustment, that he couldn't, and that's why he's always gone with semi/non-weighted controllers. So it's that market. Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surreal mccoy Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 Covering all bases McCoy. And while I'm not one of them, there are plenty of organists who play multi-keyboards (just like us piano players!), and they prefer a non/semi-weighted action. I can remember reading Chester Thompson saying he could never understand the guys who could play organ and then move to a piano or Rhodes and have to make no adjustment, that he couldn't, and that's why he's always gone with semi/non-weighted controllers. So it's that market. Ok...then for all practical purposes...why wouldn't the reverse be equally accepted? As a pianist first, I've often thought that it would be nice to be able to trigger all my sounds/ voices from a single keyboard....I just also realized it's not quite the same for pianists vs. organists...but either way....if you plan to play both....it really IS an adjustment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Not to diss or defend the dude that proclaimed his 88 weighted board to extend his organ experience or whatever... But OTOH.. what about Hammond making the new 88 SK board...? I took him to mean he thought he was going to have one 88 key organ manual and why bother trying to fix that. The SK-88 will default to 44 key manuals side by side in organ mode. The old spinet versions had 44 key manuals so it would be similar to that. However the spinet manuals ran from F to C so it won't be the same key ranges. The split is also probably going to be adjustable up to 61 notes on one side. Also, the 88 key version will have a lighter touch than regular piano type keybeds so it will still feel more organ like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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