This Just In......PX-5S

[LX88]

I heard a PX-5S being played live on Sunday. The speaker system was two QSC K8's.

 

The PX 5S sounded very good live. I didn't hear anything I didn't like about it, and I was standing close to the player.

 

The EP's sounded good too, especially the Wurli as I recall.

 

Unfortunately it wasn't possible for me to demo it for myself.

 

I was probably a bit critical of the PX 350 after I tried it.And I wouldn't be able to use the electric pianos in that one either.

 

In a post above Mike Martin is saying that the acoustic piano sounds different in the PX-5S. I thought they were the same engine. What is the difference?

 

 

[Mike Martin]

I've said the piano in the PX-5S is capable of sounding very different from the other Privia models. From a distance you may not hear some of the nuance and detail that the PX-5S is delivering....above and beyond the capabilities of the PX-350 as an example. Also with the PX-5S's filters, effects, envelopes, EQ and other capabilities it can sound radically different from other Privia models.

[Pa Gherkin]

Anyone know if the immediately upcoming shipments of the PX5S will already have the current updates installed?

[Mike Martin]

No. You will have to download it.

[ADino]

I've said the piano in the PX-5S is capable of sounding very different from the other Privia models. From a distance you may not hear some of the nuance and detail that the PX-5S is delivering....above and beyond the capabilities of the PX-350 as an example. Also with the PX-5S's filters, effects, envelopes, EQ and other capabilities it can sound radically different from other Privia models.

 

Thats interesting Mike. If thats possible, why didnt you(se) guys eq the piano for the best piano sound u could and include it in the piano bank? At any rate, I am anxious 2 try one and do just what u r suggesting. Thx, A.

PS: Tell ur bud at Brents I said hey.

[ADino]

I'm in Orlando, I'm sure we'll get some here soon. I've only been in a few stores so there may well be some here now. Guitar Center in Winter park has the older models so I'm sure they'll carry this one. Unfortunately for me I have to sell old gear to get gear (the boss has spoken) and CL has been terrible. Lots of scammers but not many buyers.

 

 

 

Lol..Ive been trying CL here..big poop..I learned to always ask for a # in your ad, as when I answered via email, I ended up getting porn ads for weeks. Its not a complaint, merely an observation.

 

[Mike Martin]

Thats interesting Mike. If thats possible, why didnt you(se) guys eq the piano for the best piano sound u could and include it in the piano bank? At any rate, I am anxious 2 try one and do just what u r suggesting. Thx, A.

PS: Tell ur bud at Brents I said hey.

 

Who says the default isn't the best piano sound?

By default with the piano Stage Settings, the four knobs are dedicated to EQ allowing you to quickly make an adjustment to room or speaker system. Between that and the stock piano presets that is a lot of variety before ever hitting the edit button or downloading other presets.

 

The reality is that I chose not to mess with the great work that the team in Tokyo had done with our piano sounds. We certainly had our hands full working all the other sounds as well. That being said, I've been doing a lot of studying to understand what people like about our piano sound as well as listening to those that don't.

 

There are a lot of variables at play. Of course everyone has in their mind what they expect to hear and how they expect an instrument to respond to touch. How much of an amplitude dynamic range occurs, how much of a timbre change...both tied to the velocity curve...etc.

 

The team in Tokyo has a spent a lot of time working with musicians to get the Privia piano sound the way it is. The reality is it could be type (genre) of musicians they survey. It could also be tied to just a cultural difference. I know for certain that the default works for a lot of players here in the US and worldwide. I think they've done a great job. For the players that don't like it, I have several of my own theories. It could be as simple as they don't care for the brand or specific model of the piano sampled.

 

It is also possible that the overall amplitude dynamic range is actually too wide for some players. Compared to some other digital pianos, the default of Privia is a bit wider. Narrowing the velocity amplitude response has a big effect on people's perception, earlier in this thread I gave some suggestions which I believe really helped one user get a sound that worked for them. Lowering the "initial attack" in our envelope also seems to have had a positive reaction by some users.

 

In the end the flexibility of the PX-5S really shines. I think our piano sounds great live and works really well in mono too. Users have the option to download presets or edit the sounds extensively.

 

 

[PianoManChuck]

Thats interesting Mike. If thats possible, why didnt you(se) guys eq the piano for the best piano sound u could and include it in the piano bank? At any rate, I am anxious 2 try one and do just what u r suggesting. Thx, A.

PS: Tell ur bud at Brents I said hey.

 

Who says the default isn't the best piano sound?

By default with the piano Stage Settings, the four knobs are dedicated to EQ allowing you to quickly make an adjustment to room or speaker system. Between that and the stock piano presets that is a lot of variety before ever hitting the edit button or downloading other presets.

 

The reality is that I chose not to mess with the great work that the team in Tokyo had done with our piano sounds. We certainly had our hands full working all the other sounds as well. That being said, I've been doing a lot of studying to understand what people like about our piano sound as well as listening to those that don't.

 

There are a lot of variables at play. Of course everyone has in their mind what they expect to hear and how they expect an instrument to respond to touch. How much of an amplitude dynamic range occurs, how much of a timbre change...both tied to the velocity curve...etc.

 

The team in Tokyo has a spent a lot of time working with musicians to get the Privia piano sound the way it is. The reality is it could be type (genre) of musicians they survey. It could also be tied to just a cultural difference. I know for certain that the default works for a lot of players here in the US and worldwide. I think they've done a great job. For the players that don't like it, I have several of my own theories. It could be as simple as they don't care for the brand or specific model of the piano sampled.

 

It is also possible that the overall amplitude dynamic range is actually too wide for some players. Compared to some other digital pianos, the default of Privia is a bit wider. Narrowing the velocity amplitude response has a big effect on people's perception, earlier in this thread I gave some suggestions which I believe really helped one user get a sound that worked for them. Lowering the "initial attack" in our envelope also seems to have had a positive reaction by some users.

 

In the end the flexibility of the PX-5S really shines. I think our piano sounds great live and works really well in mono too. Users have the option to download presets or edit the sounds extensively.

Very interesting. My philosophy - as a pianist - is based on the old-school experience of going from one acoustic piano to any other acoustic piano at any location anywhere in the world! Long before digital pianos (let alone professional digital pianos such as the px-5s) this was your only choice!

From those experiences I can quickly adjust to ANY piano/keyboard in a matter of a few seconds. Other than lid position and pedals, the acoustic piano you sat at was it - no other controls. So I usually always leave the settings of any digital piano to "default".

 

The exception to leaving "default" settings was on my Nord Stage 2 - that digital piano with all of its dedicated physical controls on the board made it so easy to adjust EQ, dynamics and various other factors effortlessly. The PX-5s, can pretty much do the same thing (albeit to a lesser extent) with its programmable physical controls, which is quite attractive to me. To have a digital piano that can do this for $1k is a bargain! Especially considering that its only 24lbs and can run on batteries if need be!

 

Speaking of batteries... if running on AC current, does anyone know if the batteries in the PX-5s kick in immediately in the event of a power outage (thus eliminating the need for a UPS)?

 

 

 

[Mike Martin]

Very interesting. My philosophy - as a pianist - is based on the old-school experience of going from one acoustic piano to any other acoustic piano at any location anywhere in the world! Long before digital pianos (let alone professional digital pianos such as the px-5s) this was your only choice!

From those experiences I can quickly adjust to ANY piano/keyboard in a matter of a few seconds. Other than lid position and pedals, the acoustic piano you sat at was it - no other controls. So I usually always leave the settings of any digital piano to "default".

 

Yes but the way people approach digital pianos is different. The listening environment including headphones vs monitor speakers vs PA speakers all make a difference in perception.

I've also had players on this forum tell me they shouldn't have to adjust their technique at all when they play a different instrument.

 

Spend some time as an observer in the average music store. A guitarist has no problem grabbing a guitar off the wall, plugging it into the nearest amp and turning it up to 11. Keyboard players tend to be much more timid, especially true of less experienced keyboard players compared to guitarists at the same level. In my opinion the average keyboardist won't play too aggressively on an instrument unless by chance they have headphones. In the case of a digital piano, this may mean that they never experience the dynamic range or tonal range of an instrument. I'm not saying this is true everywhere and of everyone but it is certainly something I've observed over the years, just my $.02

 

 

[PianoManChuck]

Very interesting. My philosophy - as a pianist - is based on the old-school experience of going from one acoustic piano to any other acoustic piano at any location anywhere in the world! Long before digital pianos (let alone professional digital pianos such as the px-5s) this was your only choice!

From those experiences I can quickly adjust to ANY piano/keyboard in a matter of a few seconds. Other than lid position and pedals, the acoustic piano you sat at was it - no other controls. So I usually always leave the settings of any digital piano to "default".

 

Yes but the way people approach digital pianos is different. The listening environment including headphones vs monitor speakers vs PA speakers all make a difference in perception.

I've also had players on this forum tell me they shouldn't have to adjust their technique at all when they play a different instrument.

 

Spend some time as an observer in the average music store. A guitarist has no problem grabbing a guitar off the wall, plugging it into the nearest amp and turning it up to 11. Keyboard players tend to be much more timid, especially true of less experienced keyboard players compared to guitarists at the same level. In my opinion the average keyboardist won't play too aggressively on an instrument unless by chance they have headphones. In the case of a digital piano, this may mean that they never experience the dynamic range or tonal range of an instrument. I'm not saying this is true everywhere and of everyone but it is certainly something I've observed over the years, just my $.02

Couldn't agree with you more!! I'm speaking more from a live performance point of view. In the studio, you better believe I've got every knob, button, fader and variable menu selection down! In a live performance however, I treat the digital piano no differently than an acoustic piano... whats in front of you is what you get (but with those physical controls it just makes it so much more a no-brainer to fine-tune the sound in realtime (ie: during performance)). At least that's from my live pianist perspective's point of view.

 

Also interesting to point out the people trying out the electric guitars at stores - yup, they all "want to be heard". Back in the days of being a mobile recording engineer, I've seen fights break out due to who gets what volume settings! Pianos on the other hand are a bit different - they can be standalone, or to be used with a band... same with all the other functions and voices on a keyboard... unless you're Jon Lord

[Steve LeBlanc]

 

 

Speaking of batteries... if running on AC current, does anyone know if the batteries in the PX-5s kick in immediately in the event of a power outage (thus eliminating the need for a UPS)?

 

 

 

yes, it does work this way

 

[PianoManChuck]

 

 

Speaking of batteries... if running on AC current, does anyone know if the batteries in the PX-5s kick in immediately in the event of a power outage (thus eliminating the need for a UPS)?

 

 

 

yes, it does work this way

Excellent!

[area51recording]

Mike, I hadn't thought of this but one of your posts above piqued my curiosity.....what piano WAS sampled for the PX5s?

[Ashville.Guru]

The pianos are set by default for a very wide dynamic range (as are all Privia models).

 

You can reduce this pretty easily although we will have some patches available for download after the firmware update next week.

 

If you want to experiment with this yourself, press the EDIT button, select TONE. Go to the AMP page. Find velocity and reduce it from a value of +64 to around 40. You'll have to scroll back up to the stop of the AMP page and reduce the overall volume to compensate.

 

Mike,

 

Does this parameter (Tone->Amp->Velocity) affect only the dynamic range, without affecting timbre?

 

Illustration - if one were to set this parameter to minimum, would hitting the keys at different velocities produces changes only in timbre, and not in volume?

 

Thanks,

 

Guru

[Mike Martin]

Guru,

You are correct. Some people like the dynamic range reduced, try a value of around 40-45 instead of 64.

 

You may have to adjust the overall volume at the top of the AMP page after making this adjustment. Also, changes here also effect the balance of the damper and resonant effects (you'll probably want to turn them down).

[Ashville.Guru]

Thanks, Mike - and I'm impressed.

 

We've discussed the importance of this before.

 

There are a lot of variables at play. Of course everyone has in their mind what they expect to hear and how they expect an instrument to respond to touch. How much of an amplitude dynamic range occurs, how much of a timbre change...both tied to the velocity curve...etc.

 

Couldn't agree more. If you haven't played around with independent range and velocity parameters, you'll never know what a huge difference they can make.

 

This is a feature first seen in software pianos like Ivory and Pianoteq. Hardware manufacturers have been slow to pick this up until recently - the Kronos and the Krome are the only other hardware pianos that have this feature, AFAIK. It's still not there in the flagship DPs from Yamaha and Roland - the CP5 and the RD-700NX.

 

Kudos to Casio for putting it into the PX-5S...!

 

Nice demo... But to be honest, I have not seen any controller function, or heard any sound from this keyboard that I cannot create on my Motif XS...

So that's a pretty big feature in the PX-5S missing from the Motif. Like I said, if you haven't played around with this feature, you wouldn't know how big a difference it makes.

[uncledunc]

Questions for Mike:

 

Using the DSP Equalizer to customize tones, all 3 bands start at 1Khz. In the planned update, will there be a low EQ band? With a Q setting to do tighter EQ sculpting?

 

Is there an update yet? I check your blog page periodically. I'm assuming a link would appear there?

 

I really like the functionality of the sliders. In keybass mode, I've got slider 5 setting the volume of zone 2 only (the piano) with the minimum set to 80, so I can leave the slider at the mid point and easily bump up the piano volume for a solo without also turning up the bass. My old FP2 had a "boost" button on the right hand side which accomplished the same thing. If the Casio guys wanted to add an option to use the "audio recorder" button as a zone "boost" button, that would be pretty great, but I'm not holding my breath. Also, if they wanted to add an option to use the "number" button for "transpose" with the "no" and "yes" buttons functioning for "minus" and "plus", (or the "tempo" button as another poster mentioned) that would be handy for some folks. I'm thinking these proposed "boost" and "transpose" functions could be toggled in the "system" settings, so that the buttons could also retain their current function depending on the user's needs. This would be only, like, 20 minutes worth or programming, right?

[Mike Martin]

The EQ is improved in v1.10. In the new version the Low EQ goes down to 100Hz and has many more frequency choices. There is not a selectable Q setting.

 

The update has been moved back to next week. Probably by May 15th.

 

You could use Footswitch2 as a boost control the same way you're using the slider. in version v1.10 there is a Toggle mode for the footswitches.

[uncledunc]

One more question: Can I use footswitch 2 to switch between fast and slow rotary speaker? I can't find that in the manual or tutorial pdf - or I need better glasses.

[Mike Martin]

Yes you can.

 

With the firmware update we've changed all the organ Stage Settings, so that footswitch 1 is speed control, footswitch 2 is brake. New in v1.10 they can operate as Toggle switches. Currently only momentary is available so you'd have to hold the footswitch down for fast.

 

To change a pedal or knob assignment, you need to Edit the Stage Setting, scroll down to the Common page. Find Pedal 1 on the list. Then you change the Target of the pedal from CC64 (Sustain/Hold) to the DSP parameter for Speed control. In version v1.10 you'll see the DSP parameter list from the list from this page. In your current version you'll need to know what parameter numerically is the speed switch (the first or fourth I think depending on which rotary effect you're using).

[uncledunc]

Yes you can.

 

With the firmware update we've changed all the organ Stage Settings, so that footswitch 1 is speed control, footswitch 2 is brake. New in v1.10 they can operate as Toggle switches. Currently only momentary is available so you'd have to hold the footswitch down for fast.

 

To change a pedal or knob assignment, you need to Edit the Stage Setting, scroll down to the Common page. Find Pedal 1 on the list. Then you change the Target of the pedal from CC64 (Sustain/Hold) to the DSP parameter for Speed control. In version v1.10 you'll see the DSP parameter list from the list from this page. In your current version you'll need to know what parameter numerically is the speed switch (the first or fourth I think depending on which rotary effect you're using).

 

So, before you posted, I put on my better glasses and discovered that DSP parameter 3 switches between fast and slow rotary. Assigning either pedal to DSP #3 does, indeed, switch the rotary speed, but it also sustains the notes, even though the pedal function has been switched from sustain to DSP #3. Am I missing a step somewhere? Probably doesn't matter for my C&W keybass gig this weekend, unless we have to play "Fast as You". It looks like the version 1.10 update has the situation resolved.

[Mike Martin]

Each controller can have two simultaneous targets. When you're on the screen that shows the pedal Target you should take note of the T1 or T2 on the screen. You probably assigned it to speed for Target 2 while leaving sustain on Target 1.

 

The Zone/Part/Track +/- buttons to the bottom left of the screen allow you to switch between controller Targets.

[uncledunc]

Each controller can have two simultaneous targets. ...

 

That was it. Thanks.

 

ETA: I've got an old DOD footswitch with an LED in it. It works in Pedal 2, switching the rotary fast/slow so I don't have to hold my foot on the pedal for fast speed. This is one cool keyboard.

[Nomadness]

Just a quick and non-technical rhapsody... the PX-5S is having an interesting effect here. I find myself getting lost in the sound, taking familiar pieces and mapping them onto arpeggio patterns, experimenting with different kinds of expression, jamming on classics, and having FUN in addition to the more usual practice/learning modes. I wasn't really expecting this when searching for a lightweight piano with good action, but it invites an intimate and exploratory kind of playing that stretches me in a variety of ways. Every time I pop on the Senns and start to play "for a just a few minutes," I discover that a half hour or more has passed... and not just repeating familiar material with occasional breaks to poke at the measure-from-hell of something on the current wish list.

 

I bought a Soundseat throne that is going to be installed in the boat, and am working on the design for a drawer assembly that will stow the piano under the lab/studio desktop. It will stay connected via a "snake" so that switching from geekery to music should take but a moment... pull it out, lift it onto the desk (24 pounds!), raise the seat 5 inches on its gas lift, pop off the arms, punch up the mixer, and dive in. Speakers are a pair of Klipsch KHO-7 right above the console, so I think the little salon is going to rock when I'm not immersed in the cans.

 

Anyway, this is a sweet machine, even early in the learning curve... just wanted to share my enthusiasm! I'm in wuvvvvv...

 

Steve

 

[uncledunc]

Mike - yet another question. Will it be possible to add more sounds someday via a firmware update or a usb stick or whatever? Coming from the Nord Electro 3, I'm really missing some organ patches I use regularly on that board. I know - the PX-5s is not a $3,000 keyboard, so it's not going to feature a $3,000 soundset, but if there's a way to add another half dozen classic organ patches, that would certainly make my life easier. (I know, a month ago I just wanted a small profile 88 keyboard with the ability to pan the bass to one output jack and piano to the other and turn off the sustain pedal for the bass, now I want it to also replace the Nord. Am I greedy? Yes, apparently.)

[AnotherScott]

Mike - yet another question. Will it be possible to add more sounds someday via a firmware update or a usb stick or whatever? Coming from the Nord Electro 3, I'm really missing some organ patches I use regularly on that board. I know - the PX-5s is not a $3,000 keyboard, so it's not going to feature a $3,000 soundset, but if there's a way to add another half dozen classic organ patches, that would certainly make my life easier.

Mike has talked about the PX-5S having pseudo-drawbar modes where you could create different drawbar registrations, within certain limits. So you wouldn't need any kind of upgrade to create new organ patches, it can do a lot of that already, out of the box. As for what kinds of new sounds could be added by Casio in the future... there was a slightly confusing thread about this in another forum, as to how much of this capability existed, but regardless, even if it does, there is no assurance that it would ever be used.

[David Loving]

Will it do a program change to Kontakt 5 ?

[Mike Martin]

Mike has talked about the PX-5S having pseudo-drawbar modes where you could create different drawbar registrations, within certain limits. So you wouldn't need any kind of upgrade to create new organ patches, it can do a lot of that already, out of the box.

 

Correct and we will be making additional organ sounds using this method and other using the existing samples.

 

As for what kinds of new sounds could be added by Casio in the future... there was a slightly confusing thread about this in another forum, as to how much of this capability existed, but regardless, even if it does, there is no assurance that it would ever be used.

 

I said, we are adding new waveforms in this firmware update (v1.10) and not to expect any additional waveforms in future versions.

 

To quote myself I said:

"Do not read more into this than there is. We're supplementing the existing ROM with some more content in this firmware update. I would not expect more samples to be added."

[Mike Martin]

Will it do a program change to Kontakt 5 ?

 

Sure

[EscapeRocks]

I hereby appeal to Casio to give Mike Martin a serious commission for every PX5s sold.

 

Seriously, if there's a better, more engaged rep out there right now, I can't find him. I just ordered mine based on all the answers that Mike has taken the time and patience to answer.

 

Casio has a winner here, in large part due to Mike. My local stores can't keep the one's they get fr stock for more than a couple hours.

 

 

I'd still say the same things about Mr. Martin even if this wasn't the keyboard for me. How refreshing. Equipment repping done right.