Sound module advice please

[wheel6220]

Hello.

I have just started playing live with a band. I have a basic stage piano (Yamaha P60). I would like some more sounds e.g. hammond, rock organ, clavichord and ideally octaver function. Also would like a piano sound which is not so weak and feeble in the top range when plugged through a PA and competing against drums, bass and guitar.

I don't particularly want to buy a new keyboard. I was hoping plugging through a sound module might help. A shop suggested Roland SD50. But no shop near me stocks them so I can't try it out.

I need to be able to switch v quickly btw different sounds on stage. I don't want the stress of hooking up a computer to my keyboard (or the latency issues). Will SD 50 do what I want (I'm worried about a twiddly wheel to select sounds, I need a button with presets I think.

Please ....someone with some experience, give me some options??

 

Thanks in advance, Richard.

[Analogaddict]

I have no experience with the SD 50, but I own a Sonoc Cell and wouldn't choose it for rock organ or full piano sounds. Also, you need a computer to edit it. Unless you're very attatched to the piano you have, it sounds like a master keyboard of some kind would be the ticket. A used Nord Electro or a Yamaha S-90 series synth could be what you need...

[Kawai James]

Agreed. If you're playing with a band, the Nord Electro is where it's at. A second-hand NE3 61-key can probably be found on eBay for a reasonably good price, and will MIDI up to your P60 for when you wish to play with a weighted hammer action.

 

James

x

[Analogaddict]

A Roland VR760 could fit the bill too, but the Leslie sim is not the most fun... Pair it with a Ventilator and you're good!

[nickd]

Welcome to the forum!

 

Do you have any thoughts on what your budget is?

 

Nord Electro (as said earlier) could be good - you can find the earlier Nord Electro 2 second hand, and there's also a module version if you don't want a second keyboard.

 

 

[wheel6220]

Thank you so much for the replies so far. I already feel I'm getting more focused advice than the shops and website can offer.

 

Realistically I didn't want to spend more than the £335 I was looking at for the Roland SD50. We are only just starting out with the band and I really can't justify a big expenditure but... well if the right equip was avail I could afford more.

 

Following the replies so far I looked at the Nord online. I noticed the module version w/o keyboard and wondered if that would be good. That is the sort of idea I want as I really don't want to have to lug two keyboards around. If the Nord module would have a decent piano sound, organ, etc and would allow me to play my weighted keys with low latency then that could be good??

[CEB]

The new Casio performance synth could be OK. It is around $500 US new. A used Roland XV module could get you a ton of sounds cheap.

 

Nord rack is good but has still held some value. Depends on budget.

[Kawai James]

The Nord Electro 2 (and rack version) doesn't have terribly good piano samples (although probably better than your P60), however the EPs and organ hold up pretty well.

 

Latency can occur when using computer-based sample libraries with older/slower systems, however this is not an issue with hardware MIDI modules such as the Nord Electro rack.

 

Cheers,

James

x

[nickd]

The Nord Electro module will do what you want - have a look at http://www.nordkeyboards.com/main.asp?tm=Products&clpm=Nord_Electro_2&clnem=Information

 

But I don't think you'll find one for £335, to be honest.

 

The only other organ module you might be able to get that I can think of is a Roland Vk-8m. There's one on Ebay UK at the moment (not mine...).

 

But if you don't need a full set of organ controls, there's lots of second-hand modules that will give you good sounds and passable organs. These include Roland Sonic Cell, XV5050, XV3080 - Yamaha Motif Rack ES. Have a listen to some YouTube demos and see what sounds good to you.

 

You could pick up something a little cheaper for about £100-150 (say Roland JV1010) that might give you the sounds you need while you get the band up and running.

 

Lots of people will tell you the organ sounds on most modules are rubbish, but it's all relative - if you're just getting a band going, they'll be good enough to gig with if organ isn't the main component of your sound.

[JeffLearman]

A used Nord Electro 2 / 61 might be in the budget, and would be a great addition (for a two-tier setup) to your Yamaha. However, the piano on the NE2 probably isn't better than the P60. Everything else it has rocks: Hammond, Rhodes, Wurli, Clav.

 

To get a better piano, it'd take an NE3, which also has an even better organ. But that's outside your budget. NE3 comes in various flavors, 61-key semi-weighted, 73-key semi-weighted, and 73-key weighted (NE3 HP). The latter would be the best as a replacement for the Yamaha, but at US$2000 or more it's well over your budget. The first time you carry it, though, you'll fall in love. The NE's are all absurdly light.

 

A few years back I had a piano I liked but needed Rhodes and Hammond, so I used my laptop. If you have a laptop, you should definitely consider it. It's a bit more hassle:

 

- You have to find a place to put it; I used a TV tray.

- It takes some time to get the software set up

- If you use it for everything else, it may occasionally stop working right and you may have to reinstall the audio stuff

 

If you are interested in this avenue, let us know and we can help out. For under £100 total you can get Rhodes and Wurli, and the best Hammond I've tried. That's using your laptop's headphone output. I find that many are good enough, and if you stick with it you can improve on it without breaking the bank.

 

I replaced my laptop with an NE2 and don't regret it. I liked the Hammond and Rhodes from my computer a little better, but I vastly prefer having a second tier, playing organ on a semi-weighted keyboard, and also having a small light board that I can use by itself for rehearsals.

[Losendoskeys]

Roland Fantom XR - rack unit with sample capability, lots of pianos or add your own..........

[Ken Beaumont]

If you can get a second hand Sonic Cell or XV5080 and the SRX-07 Ultimate Keys will get you want you want on a budget.

 

There are quite a few weekend warriors out there gigging with just that setup and an old casio or yamaha.

 

 

[Aidan]

I'd probably look for an original Motif rack (one on eBay UK at the moment current bid £150) or maybe stretch to the Motif ES rack. Or there's an original Motif 6 on the same site for around £350. For my money, it's a better gigging proposition than either the SD-50 or Sonic Cell.

[AnotherScott]

It won't do everything you want (I don't think anything in your price range will), but if you happen to already own an iPad, you can get good organ and other sounds very cheaply driving that from your existing keyboard.

[Dana.]

Before giving advice, I think people need to, you know, actually read and understand the entire post before responding.

 

The critera below rules out about half of the responses.

 

I don't particularly want to buy a new keyboard.

 

I need to be able to switch v quickly btw different sounds on stage.

 

I don't want the stress of hooking up a computer to my keyboard (or the latency issues).

[CEB]

Transmitting patch changes from the P60 is interesting.

[Dana.]

The new Casio performance synth could be OK.

I don't agree.

 

I would like some more sounds e.g. hammond, rock organ, clavichord and ideally octaver function. Also would like a piano sound which is not so weak and feeble in the top range when plugged through a PA and competing against drums, bass and guitar.

I don't particularly want to buy a new keyboard.

[CEB]

I cant think of anything good at that price point where the controller is a P60. A big hurdle is real time patch control.

[Aidan]

I cant think of anything good at that price point where the controller is a P60. A big hurdle is real time patch control.

 

Yeah, I did wonder about that myself.

[Ken Beaumont]

Transmitting patch changes from the P60 is interesting.

 

Agreed, with any sound module you might want to use something like a Tech 21 MIDI Mouse. I have seen these on ebay go for about $50.

[Dana.]

I cant think of anything good at that price point where the controller is a P60. A big hurdle is real time patch control.

Then you need to raise that issue and give it some context. It may be something the OP hasn't considered, and your knowledge could benefit him, but you need to spell it out. Suggesting the Casio, which I don't think is the right solution, isn't helpful.

 

I'm not trying to single you out, just make a point that oftentimes the advice given isn't helpful.

[AnotherScott]

The MIDI Mouse looks fine if you preplan the patches in order. For quick non-contiguous access, maybe something more like a Rocktron MIDIMate (or again, an iPad app).

 

As for other used sound modules that might fill the bill, maybe a Motif Rack ES (possibly with an organ add-on like Organimation or B's Knees), or a Kurzweil PC2R (which includes an older version of their KB3 organ model).

[CEB]

It hits budget has drawbar organ emulation and a broad sound palette. You could use the Casio's surface to contol patch setting. I am not sure the pounds sterling price is but it should be close to budget.

 

Personally I would not use the P60 but try to find a used proline workstation for a price with budget.

 

PS The total budget on this according to my math is about $540 US.

[Ken Beaumont]

Yes, the biggest drawback is he wants to use his P60.

 

There are quite a few options for modules. The ones listed are all doable. But because you would need something for changing patches, and may want a scroll wheel too. The total could end up being more than what you can find in a used board.

 

The best thing to do is decide your budget. Then look at all these suggestions, research the usual places ebay, Craigslist, or the used section of Musician's Friend etc. Good luck!

 

[HSS]

As mentioned previously, a used Kurzweil PC2R module might be within your budget. Used PC2R's can sometimes be purchased on CL and Ebay for as little as $250 - 500 here in the states. It has decent AP's, EP's, clavs, strings, pads, and a passable Hammond B3 emulation (older Kurz KB3).

 

You could also probably pick up an older used Alesis QSR or EMU Proteus 2000 module on the cheap (<$200 in the states) that might also do the trick, although IMO they are not of the quality of the Kurz PC2R.

 

As previously discussed, with any of these modules patch changes from your Yamaha P60 will be very difficult so I would recommend picking up a cheap simple midi foot controller patch change device to use with whatever module you get (e.g. Behringer FCB101 for ~$100 - 150 or the slightly more expensive Rocktron Midimate).

 

Even though you don't want another keyboard, one other possibility would be the Korg Microstation which has fairly high quality sounds that would probably meet your needs. Even though it has 61 keys, the keys are minikeys so the unit is very portable and approximately the same weight (~6 lbs.) as many of the previously mentioned sound modules. The Microstation sells new here in the states for ~$400 and can commonly be picked up used on CL and Ebay for ~$250 - 300.

 

Any of the units above plus a cheap midi foot switch controller could end up being within or very close to your stated budget of ~$500 (£335).

[wheel6220]

Wow - overwhelming number of responses and info. Thanks so much to every one who has replied. I will go through the responses - and see where I'm at. I wanted to say thanks at this stage though.

[RABid]

I just want to mention a couple of pros and cons when choosing between a module and a keyboard.

 

Keyboard - more to carry around but nice to have as a backup. If you play long enough you will have a keyboard go out during a job. That is when it is nice to have more than one keyboard in your setup. Be careful buying a used keyboard. The key bed is the first thing to wear out on a keyboard.

 

Module - Easy to carry and also easy to buy and sell online. I find old keyboards hard to get rid of because there are not many local buyers in my small town and shipping a keyboard is expensive. Also, modules don't have many moving parts. You may have to replace a battery after years of use. Very old modules may need a new screen.

 

If buying used I would buy a module.

[kanker.]

The Nord Electro 2 (and rack version) doesn't have terribly good piano samples (although probably better than your P60), however the EPs and organ hold up pretty well.

 

Latency can occur when using computer-based sample libraries with older/slower systems, however this is not an issue with hardware MIDI modules such as the Nord Electro rack.

 

Cheers,

James

x

Actually, the Nord piano samples hold up quite well when triggered from a good 88. You'd be amazed how good the mono Steinway sounds with my MP8II as a controller

[David Loving]

Welcome to the forum. Don't worry about the advice given so far - as D-Bon pointed out. In every thread like this your questions eventually get answered. I'm no help on a module, but i agree with HSS.

[David Emm]

 

According to your terms, you need a module with some accessible buttons, so that puts rack modules back a notch. You need a tabletop module you can simply bring in and out with a volume control. Put both on MIDI channel 1; disable all program change commands, as well as any other performance CCs you don't want sent; run both into a small mixer that gives you volume control at the source. Voila, no computer, no new keyboard needed, just a little woodshedding to get your performance sounds lined up.

 

You'll have to wrestle your budget like anyone else. You may want to save and hold out for something more high-end. Tabletop-shaped modules are not plentiful and some aren't right for your needs. A Nord module would do you right, but cheap they're not. A Korg M3 module would give you a lot of power, but those still run easily twice your budget, even used. You may want to consider some means of angling a rack module at your perfect playing height; that would bring Roland back to the table, as their gear is tough and in this instance, especially affordable used. Their last generation of XV modules have a good reputation.

 

Older gear can be had that would do the job, but a 10-year-old anything is easily halfway through its useful life. Not always, if they're pampered, but batteries leak, displays die and replacement parts become vaporware. Buy something newer.

 

You might want to at least look at the Korg microStation. You can program that into pretty nice shape for your needs, aside from the very limited acoustic pianos it can provide with only 49 mb of RAM. It has mini-keys (which aren't to everyone's tastes), but if you apply it as a module with a sequencer onboard, it may look like a better option.