Sound module advice please

[HSS]

Actually, the Nord piano samples hold up quite well when triggered from a good 88. You'd be amazed how good the mono Steinway sounds with my MP8II as a controller

 

I agree... Playing the NE2R (and NE2) piano samples with weighted action apparently makes a big difference. I finally borrowed a NE2R module about a year ago for a couple of days from a guy I know and midi'd it to my Privia PX330 and RD300GX. IMO the piano samples sounded pretty damned good with both of these weighted actions, even though the same piano samples sound lame on the semi-weighted NE2 boards.

 

Unfortunately for the OP, NE2R's are very difficult to find. When they do show up on Ebay or CL, they are usually pretty expensive, often running $750 or more.

[Kawai James]

Actually, the Nord piano samples hold up quite well when triggered from a good 88. You'd be amazed how good the mono Steinway sounds with my MP8II as a controller

 

Big +1 on the MP8II controlling a Nord's piano/EPs - I have one at home hooked up to my Electro 3...great combo!

 

James

x

[NoLights]

When I started gigging with a rock band about ten years ago, I had a Yamaha P80 and a Roland JV-1010 module. It was adequate -- but patch changes were bizarre. I recall using an old eMagic app and editing performances -- then by trial and error, figuring out which random buttons on the P80 gave me which performance on the JV-1010. I eventually gave up and got a Motif. The JV-1010 wasn't bad (it was just the P80's wacky UI) -- and would probably be a cheap option. Or the Kurz ME-1.

[wheel6220]

Ok, so I went through all the responses. I am completely new to the terminology and issues here. Could someone explain - what is a patch change (does it mean changing btw voices e.g. organ to piano?). If I have followed things correctly and went for a Korg 2 sound rack, I could plug this into my keyboard and use a foot switch (with maybe 10 switches on it) to change btw sounds? Any difficulties assigning the sounds to the foot switch or compatibility issues with the foot switch and the korg?

 

Why can't I just change sounds by pressing a button on the Korg?

 

Kind regards, RIchard,.

[Tusker]

Ok, so I went through all the responses. I am completely new to the terminology and issues here. Could someone explain - what is a patch change (does it mean changing btw voices e.g. organ to piano?).

 

Yes. A patch is a sound (A word derived from the early period of synths when synths used patch cords. A unique combination of patched cords and knob settings represented a unique timbre.)

 

 

If I have followed things correctly and went for a Korg 2 sound rack, I could plug this into my keyboard and use a foot switch (with maybe 10 switches on it) to change btw sounds? Any difficulties assigning the sounds to the foot switch or compatibility issues with the foot switch and the korg?

 

It will depend on the specific equipment you are using. Got a model #? Download the owner's manual.

 

If you are eager to do stuff with footswitches (and please read my comment below on why you may not want to add modules, wires and footswitches) .... there are two typical ways people use them:

 

1) Most multi timbral sound sources support a midi command called patch increment. Each time the performer depresses the footpedal or switch the next sound comes up. This presumes the performer has laid out all necessary sounds sequentially for a performance. Do you want to do that kind of programming?

 

2) There are devices like this:

 

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCB1010.aspx

 

... which will send actual patch changes to your gear. Depending on the circumstances, conducting patch changes through one of these devices may require you buy a midi merge box (to merge the signal from the master keyboard and the patch selection footpedal). Do you really want to spend a couple of hundred bucks on little gadgets?

 

Why can't I just change sounds by pressing a button on the Korg?

 

Typically, you can. Some like to keep their hands free for playing. You are making your life awfully complicated with all these wires though.

 

I heard what you wrote ...

 

I don't particularly want to buy a new keyboard. I was hoping plugging through a sound module might help.

 

My advice is to NOT add a sound module, and all that wiring, both physically and in your mind.

 

Instead, wait. Save, then trade up your keyboard. Look at Nord Electros, Korg SV1's and the like.

[CEB]

Depending on the music you are performing and how your band performs you may need to make patch changes quickly sometimes mulitple patch changes within a single song. Bands typically do not want a bunch of dead air between tunes.

 

Then again I played in blues acts and a Rock 'n' Roll oldies review show where I would play an entire show with no patches changes at all. It depends on your needs. Simple is good.

[AnotherScott]

If I have followed things correctly and went for a Korg 2 sound rack, I could plug this into my keyboard and use a foot switch (with maybe 10 switches on it) to change btw sounds?

Yes. Besides the Behringer FCB1010 that Tusker mentioned, there's also the Rocktron MIDIMate and the Rolls MP128

 

Any difficulties assigning the sounds to the foot switch or compatibility issues with the foot switch and the korg?

They are all just working with standard MIDI Program Change, so they will all work, but they do have some different features. Things get a bit more complicated if your module has more than 128 sounds and so needs to receive bank change commands to be able to access all its sounds. Usually, the best thing to do is to create a custom bank that includes all the sounds you need within a particular set of 128, but that may not be possible on all devices. So then you'd need a pedal that can access more than a single bank of 128. That is, you have to address the issue on one side or the other.

 

Why can't I just change sounds by pressing a button on the Korg?

It depends which module you get. Some modules have patch select buttons, some may have just up/down which means multiple presses to get from patch 1 to patch 8 or whatever, some have a scroll wheel which is awkward to use in performance, some may use a combination of knobs... it's not always convenient for a quick change. And regardless of any of that, if it's a rack module, you may not be able to place the rack in such a place relative to your keys that you can quickly get to its controls when you need to, with the speed and precision necessary for a patch change. Controls on modules tend to be small, they may be hard to operate easily in sub-optimal light, the flat vertical panel orientation of the rack can be less than optimal, getting the rack at the right height and location for easy ergonomic access in mid-performance can be tricky, etc. So programming buttons on your controlling keyboard when possible to change the rack's sounds, or using a foot pedal, have clear advantages.

 

In some ways, I really like the Microstation idea, because you can think of it as a module that just happens to have some keys attached... I think it would sit nicely on top of your bottom board so the ergonomics are good, and its patch select buttons would be easily accessible. You could play the sounds from your lower board, or use its own keys as you find best. And you'd even have a spare keyboard to get through the gig with in case some terrible accident befalls your main board! The only issue I have with it is whether its sounds are suitably strong in the actual categories you're looking for. Another very compact and light board that might work in this manner could be the Yamaha MX 49.

 

[AnotherScott]

Depending on the circumstances, conducting patch changes through one of these devices may require you buy a midi merge box (to merge the signal from the master keyboard and the patch selection footpedal).

Good point. The MP128 and I the FCB1010 have that built in, the Rocktron does not, if I remember correctly. For changing patches on a module (as opposed to on a keyboard), that function will almost certainly be needed.

[Ken Beaumont]

Then again I played in blues acts and a Rock 'n' Roll oldies review show where I would play an entire show with no patches changes at all. It depends on your needs. Simple is good.

 

Yes it is. That's part of the charm of my SV1 only 8 preset buttons!

[clpete]

Most sound modules are not built for easy front panel patch change. A keyboard that will send program changes, including bank changes, is the solution for using a module live. If you need to get a foot controller and a midi merge then you might as well spend your money on a keyboard. That said you could get a small module, like a Roland JV1010, and dial in the patches. I did it this for a while a number of years ago. Since the patches and banks are on dials you can make the changes pretty fast. These are easy to find and cheap. These have like 1,000 sounds in them. This would get you going. The sounds are Ok. If you only need to add organ, clav and EP then the Nord could be the ticket if you can afford one, but the NE2 racks piano is no better than the JV1010. IMO (but, Ive only played a NE2 keyboard)

 

Adding a second keyboard would allow you to use your P60 to control it as you wont have to send program changes. This will also allow you to get a organ/synth style keybed along with the piano style on your Yamy. Something like a used Juno G, Triton or Motif can be found close to your budget. Again, a new Casio XW-P1 could be an option. One of these would give tons of sounds, but the pianos and organs may not be what youre looking for.

 

Picking up a new single keyboard, with the sounds you need, and not using the P60 would be another option. The Privia PX-330 would set you up with a good piano controller and most likely the other sounds youll need to get started. This option is most likely cheaper than a module with a foot controller. Some of the other boards suggested would be a great option but they will cost much more. You could always add a module or second keyboard down the road. I doubt you will regret upgrading to the PX.

 

 

[Ekewaka]

I'm surprised there are no third party MIDI controllers where you could program a simple A/B/C/D + 8 slot system to send CC messages to switch patterns to any module or synth via MIDI.

[Losendoskeys]

I'm surprised there are no third party MIDI controllers where you could program a simple A/B/C/D + 8 slot system to send CC messages to switch patterns to any module or synth via MIDI.

 

See the Kenton Control Freak Studio - some still around on EBay

 

http://www.kentonuk.com/reviews/index.shtml

[Mididude]

To the O.P., I also am a P-60 owner. I thought, if you're considering using the Yamaha P-60 as a midi controller, I'd mention an issue that the P-60 has. It apparently doesn't transmit (as in, out it's midi output port) the full range of 0-127 values. It only goes up to either 105 or 107. I've had to, when laying down tracks in Digital Performer, use a velocity scaling plugin to get it to where the 'receiving' virtual instrument responded appropriately, e.g. when I hit the keys hard on an electric piano patch it accessed those 'fff' velocity layers. I was never quite able to get the dynamic control (when trying to play from the P-60, into the midi port of an audio interface, into DP) of the electric piano sounds when playing from the P-60 to my liking though, even after tweaking the parameters on that plugin. Check out this thread on the topic for further info: http://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=416

 

Maybe there's some other work-arounds such as a Midi-Solutions box or something that could scale/reshape the midi values better (?)

Having said that, I really enjoy playing it as a stand-alone digital piano. I think it (still) has very good acoustic piano sound, and a grand piano-like feel to the keys.

[RABid]

Wow. This all got very complicated. Put me in the camp that says ditch the P-60 and by a used workstation with the sounds needed at the price he can afford. Forget wiring things together, MIDI merge, foot switches, trying to set up patch changes, etc. I'd rather find an original Fantom or Motif which should be in budget than go through all of this.

[Analogaddict]

Ditch the P60..! You don't want to do everything that's nescessary to make it work in your context. We're talking module + midi solutions velocity converter + unknown patch change system... That's complicated and involves loads of cables.

[mikecorbett]

P60 is an awesome lightweight board, with proper GH action, and cheap. It has nice room to put another keyboard on, BUT,to my great disappointment it doesn't transmit the full velocity range... it tops out around 105 (107 if you drop an elbow on it!)

 

I'm sitting looking at mine, wondering what to do with it. A MIDI solutions velocity converter might be just the ticket. Anyone ever use one?