How to play keys in a Grateful Dead cover band?

[JimboK]

Gotta say it...

 

Primus Sucks!

[wmp]

Oh, and more on-topic: my personal favorite Dead keyboardist was Brent Mydland.

My favorite too. I'm a piano organ fan and he did both well. He also sang Donna's parts better than Donna ever did. He was a great influence on their harmonies.

 

Howard Wales is another notable keyboard player. Organ on Truckin' and the end of Candyman, and piano on Brokedown Palace. I just gave Candyman a listen. The organ work holds up nicely. The vocals don't suck, but they're not particularly strong.

 

Even at their best, they're not great singers. The vocals on American Beauty, Workingmans Dead, Skull and Roses, and Europe '72 are nice, but they're not that impressive. They had to work their butts of to do that and I'm pretty sure they had to repave the vocals on most of the live stuff.

 

I'm not sure how noticing that they sucked can be interpreted as hate. Clam worshipers blew smoke up Jerry's pipe all the time. From what I understand, he respected folks who noticed when it sucked.

 

There are some great insights, suggestions and perspectives on how to approach playing The Dead here. I'll bet a Deadicated KC compilation would get a lot of submissions. I'd be down for one or two.

 

 

[Bridog6996]

I wouldn't say Mydland was my favorite Dead keyboardist. His use of synthesizers never seemed particularly tasteful to me, and his song "Tons of Steel" always makes me want to stick my fingers in my ears and run in the opposite direction.

 

BUT...with that said, He was a good player, listened well, and found his niche within the band. Some of the live recordings from his tenure are among my favorites. His presence also seemed to recharge the band with some new found energy, at least for a time. My personal favorite Dead keyboardist was Tom Constanten, but unfortunately, his chapter with the group was relatively short-lived.

 

 

[richwhite9]

Their vibe is attached to the whole culture surrounding the band. It's more than a band and some songs that they play. It's like an entire musical philosophy of sorts.... a world unto itself. Either you like it or you don't.

 

It was often like a bad version version of Rocky Horror's 'Time Warp' thing

 

They stopped growing in the mid-70s and it was obvious their side projects and personal lives became more important than the band.

 

Swapping keyboardists here and there became their only inspiration.

 

Ultimately Madonna or David Bowie are more creative in re-arranging their older material. The Dead could have brought in sax, synth, violin and truly evolved into something interesting OTOH their fans didn't want that. It wouldn't fit in their tie-dye consciousness. Imagine a tour with David Sancious, Scarlett Rivera, and Larry Young. Hell, Ringo's All Star Band is more creative in many respects.

 

One local guy likes doing the Dead because he can work in whatever theory or scales or genre he's studying at the time and there's enough freedom for him to re-arrange some but its structured enough he doesn't have to shine as a soloist doing it. Beats playing "Separate Ways" for the 1000th time

[Eric Iverson]

But I never was a "Deadhead" type. And I've had a few negative experiences hanging out with Deadhead types over the years, especially the hardcore fanatics. But in any case, I think the Dead is kind of an acquired taste sort of thing. Their vibe is attached to the whole culture surrounding the band. It's more than a band and some songs that they play. It's like an entire musical philosophy of sorts.... a world unto itself. Either you like it or you don't.

=====================

Eric here: yes, whole subcultures rise up around certain musicians. There was also an Allman Bros. cult, and certainly a Charlie Parker one, and one for Trane. Not to mention the Beatles. To followers, it's what the artist REPRESENTS to them, their worldview, not just the music.

No, I'm not immune to it either, LOL! But I try to remind myself that talented musicians are human beings, too, not deities!

[DanL]

It's like an entire musical philosophy of sorts.... a world unto itself. Either you like it or you don't.

 

kinda like Harley Davidsons. Or Macs.

[Tonysounds]

lol...never heard The Dead compared to Harley Davidson. But I can see it.

[Musicale]

Agreed TIT, the new forum member is a welcome addition to the crew here.

 

Regards,

Musicale

[Phred]

My Take:

 

I know that this thread is mostly about the Dead, but others have brought up the jamband style, and I have a few things to say about that. I am not a deadhead, nor a fan of listening to the dead, Phish and many other jambands. However, I was in a Jamband for several years, and had a blast. We played a lot of originals, but also some Dead, and Phish.

 

We did a lot of Jambandy things like: allow tapers, have people sit in, never play any song the same way twice, do super long jams, tie songs into each other (even sometimes we would do a whole set without stopping), do set blenders (the end of one set would be an extended Jam, that would blend into the beginning of the set of the next band).

 

I personally agree that playing in a Jamband is WAY more fun than listening to it. However the crowd that we attracted seemed to disagree. They loved going to our shows. Every single show. We could play a thursday, friday, saturday and unless there was a more popular jamband playing one of those nights, the same group of people would be at all three shows. They could also drink. A lot, so clubs enjoyed having us play there. I remember one night (I may have told this story before) that one club owner looked me in the eye at the end of the night while he handed my our cash. He looked me in the eye and said, 'you guys suck! Your songs are unrecognizable, never end, and all sound the same. However your crowd can sure drink! We had the best thursday night in a long time, better than last friday even... Want a house gig?'

 

The problem is, IMHO, it's virtually impossible to get a walk in crowd to dig you. (I am having trouble wording this...) Knowing the backstory is part of the enjoyment of the music. Part of the enjoyment of the music style is knowing that they are 'making a certain part up' or that they usually do that tune as a regae, and are now doing it funk, or that they just combined two tunes together, or that they are flying without a net... If you don't know that going in, it's just a bunch of tunes that you don't recognize. And although we had a good sized local following, we never grew our following. Not by very much.

 

 

[ABECK]

I do think that Brent Mydland was a good addition to the band both playing and vocally. (Hornsby would be my facvorite, but I see him more as a sub rather than a band member).

Brent's B3 DID scream, though. Monster sound.

[Phil Aiken]

Not a Deadhead at this point in life , but to me there are a couple fundamental differences between the Dead and their musical offspring.

 

First and foremost - there are songs there. For a few year stretch in the early '70's in particular, they wrote more than a handful of excellent folk rock songs. Songs that can walk on their own being played and sang on an acoustic guitar or piano.

The happy marriage of melody/harmony/lyric that elevates a song to something more than a vehicle for noodling over. I don't find anything like that in the next generation of jam bands.

 

2nd - Jerry's personal charisma. Love him or hate him, this is the reason they were anything at all. People wanted to be in the same room as the guy. I always found him to be a melodically inventive player, if occasionally over indulgent and sloppy. WHile his playing with the Dead deteriorated mightily in latter years, I've seen footage of him with his own band and with other artists, where he was considerably more engaged, and he could still play. A virtuoso? Hardly - but usually creative. And I still find his ragged but right vocals to be both charming and vunerable.

 

As to the keyboard players - loved Keith's early contributions, always thought Brent was a little out of place, though more "pro" than the others, and thought Hornsby both added musical interest and perked Jerry up a little.

 

Whoever wrote that jam bands are more fun to play in than to listen to - that is EXACTLY my take!!!!!!

[Jason Stanfield]

I'm a true believer that a good musician can make good music in any format or context. But with a GD cover band you start with two strikes against you. . .the tunes and the audience.

The audience? Not ours!

 

A third of our audience is comprised of women in their early 20s. And they request tunes like "Terrapin Station" ... not "Sugaree" or "Casey Jones," but deep jams only Dead-lovers like.

 

In fact, only a small portion of our audience fits the "old Deadhead hippie" demographic, and those guys are really supportive. Some are even doctors and lawyers and such now who offer us private gig$.

[Adan]

A third of our audience is comprised of women in their early 20s. And they request tunes like "Terrapin Station" ... not "Sugaree" or "Casey Jones," but deep jams only Dead-lovers like.

 

That's kinda hawt.

[Jason Stanfield]

A third of our audience is comprised of women in their early 20s. And they request tunes like "Terrapin Station" ... not "Sugaree" or "Casey Jones," but deep jams only Dead-lovers like.

 

That's kinda hawt.

Yep.

 

We played a gig where a beautiful blonde (I mean, magazine gorgeous) asked us to play "Terrapin Station"; we had only just started working on it, so we were a couple of practices shy of having it stage-worthy. My band mates don't believe it really happened, though, as a couple of guys in the audience got busted with some ... er, hallucinogenic party favors ... so they think we were dosed (we weren't; she was real!). So we played "Althea", and she was happy.

 

[Bottom End]

 

First and foremost - there are songs there. For a few year stretch in the early '70's in particular, they wrote more than a handful of excellent folk rock songs. Songs that can walk on their own being played and sang on an acoustic guitar or piano.

The happy marriage of melody/harmony/lyric that elevates a song to something more than a vehicle for noodling over. I don't find anything like that in the next generation of jam bands.

 

I agree, especially that even if they wander off, most of the Dead's tunes are actually structured songs. With the songs on Workingmans Dead and American Beauty, if the Dead had showed up in Nudie suits and cowboy hats instead of long hair and tie-dyes, they could have been in the Grand Old Opry, or at least alongside Waylon and Willie in the outlaw country movement. Reckoning aka For the Faithful has some beautiful piano work by Brent Mydland, IIRC.

 

I resisted being a Deadhead for a long time, but I heard a lot of live or studio songs that weren't Casey Jones or Truckin' and grew to appreciate the Dead much more. If you hear other bands play their songs without knowing they are Dead songs, you realize that many of them are both very good, and can be played by almost any type of band line-up.

[eric]

Is this a real thread? Seems quite odd that the jazzy OP has not responded or thanked anyone. I'm guessing it was a joke.

[reidmc]

The only problem with Workingmans Dead and American Beauty is that THEY CAN"T SING!!!

 

There, I said it.

 

And note that Graham Nash is to blame.

[eric]

Hi,

 

I need some tips on playing in a Grateful Dead cover band.

 

Thanks!

 

Please tell us about your cover band. Has this thread been helpful?

[RogerD]

My two cents as a Dead Head who mostly started going after 1980.

 

To my ears, the Dead between 1971 through 1977 were (on their good nights) the tightest, greatest rock and roll band who ever played. They invented the jam band and were able (again on good nights) to play complicated sets of country, folk, rock and roll and experimental music that was as good as ever played by anyone. Jerry had a real infinity for playing cowboy country tunes like Big River (Johnny Cash), Me and My Uncle, Mexicaldi Blues, Mama Tried (Merle Haggard) as straight and badass as ever played. Most of the critics here have never listened to the dead on a good night since it required getting a live concert tape many of which have only come out in CD version in the last few years (Dicks Picks)and thats why dead heads traded bootleg casette tapes for many years. When Jerry was on he could play music that inspired and transported and thats why there are many deadheads. And all the b*&s&*%^ attacks about having to be stoned or whatever are just stupid and wrong, I actually dont do drugs and as a metter of fact, I dont like the whole Dead Head culture - just the music.

 

IMHO, after 1978, they began to burn out, get old and become tired and their side projects and Jerry's health problems took their toll and to my ears, they went downhill. I personally dont listen to the Dead after this date. But so what, the Stones arent the same now as they were in the 1970s either. People get old and things change.

 

By the way, Bruce Hornby also remarked once that the Dead never got their due as songwriters, he said (and I agree) that the wrote perhaps 50 great classic american tunes, from Truckin to Sugar Magnolia to Uncle Johns Bad and so on and so on.

 

THe thousands of dead heads are not idiots and contrary to the people on this forum, were genuienly moved by the music. You are welcome to hate it and make fun of whatever you want to, but that wasnt the original question and I'll bet the Dead's music will outlast whatever music you create in your career so you might want to criticize with some humility - even if you dont like it. There is lots of music I dont like that doesnt mean its not any good.

 

And by the way, I will be the only one here to say that I liked Keith the best. I agree he played pretty stright piano but his style fut perfectly with the early to mid 70s Dead which is my favorite period and his style (to my ears) meshed well with Jerrys. I do agre that they were never great singers, but it was much better when they were younger before all the Marlburo cigarettes made Jerrys voice painful at time to listen to.

 

Anyway, its just opinion as soneone who listens to lots of dead even now, and we each get one. Cheers, R

 

 

[TuneinTokyo]

So getting back on topic. I was just watching RISK Episode 8 on Ken Burns jazz. And they get to Louie Jordan and Charlie Parker. And acknowledging that Parker would play country music songs on the jukebox in a jazz bar, I would say that's the best if any place to start.

 

I'm going towards Rhythm and Blues for the time being. Then maybe Miles Davis. (keyboard speaking but also otherwise) Jazz is a tough nut to crack, but if offers pretty much everything you would need for the Dead or jamming. I'm always impressed with Merle Saunders teaching Jerry the standards which in turn shaped his writing style thereafter.

 

I also don't want to stifle true GD opposition, but at least offer ideas that are positive that may help those of us along with he can't play, they can't sing, they're on drugs etc. What should they have done? How should they have sounded? More vibrato? Cleaner tone? Attended 12 Step? More arpeggios? A bunch of nonsense. Say something real. Your like the guy, who shows up and can't swing and doesn't know why. I know why.

 

And I honestly don't care if the OP shows back up as long as some folks around here want to keep it going. It could really go anywhere and still come back to playing in a Grateful Dead.

 

[Ed A.]

Step 1: Smoke a lot of pot.

Step 2: Repeat step 1.

 

Acid would be the preferred choice.

[spazzkey]

!!SMOKIN'!! you guys got it goin.... now there's a post I can appreciate!!

 

 

 

I've been in a band that covers a lot of Dead for almost 30 years. The key is to LISTEN. That's all you need to do. It's a lot like playing jazz in a combo setting, if you don't use your ears, you are lost.

 

Personally I can take or leave the Dead as a band, but I enjoy playing their songs. The songs are just a framework for what the band can do with them.

 

Here's how we do it.

[barnes]

I subjectively disagree with both your definition and conclusion.

[bluesdisciple]

Sorry....I am late to the thread. When I was younger, I liked the Dead but didn't love them and I didn't "get" them either. I did see them once in Greensboro back in 81. Good show.....I remember the crowd more than I did the show though. Fast forward to now. I started listening to my old Dead cassette tapes about three years ago at age 47 and "got" them....now I am a self-proclaimed Deadhead. Listen to Grateful Dead radio and am building the show collection. Have seen Furthur four times in the last two years, DSO four times and Cosmic Charlie twice in the same time period....so 10 Dead-like shows in two years. Far from Deadhead numbers back in the 70's and 80's, but hey, its the best I can do.

 

I started listening and reading and going to shows because of the lack of good music at the time. I wanted to get back to that 70's sound---and so I went to the source. Now I know there are some great new bands that I like too, such as Blackberry Smoke, Whiskey Myers, Swampdawamp and Preacher Stone to name a few. But as I listened more and more to the Dead and read Phil's book, Jerry's biography, and other books, I got sucked into the whole scene. And even a DSO and especially a Furthur show is the next best thing to the real thing. Jerry's playing just resonates in my soul and I love Phil's and Bob's approach to their instruments. Nobody like them then or ever since---except for those who cover them.

 

I don't find the Dead sloppy or terrible at all. The live stuff is better and feels more natural to them. Jerry ain't Slash, but he's perfect for what they do. I just find his sound and playing amazing. Their songs are real songs (not just a few lines of lyric and a nonsense verse through together for an excuse to jam like Phish, moe and a few others these days.) The Dead could play tons of concerts playing their songs and not jam a one and it would be still be cleaner and better than other legendary bands---The Rolling Stones (I have always thought they were terrible and terribly sloppy) and Led Zep to name two. I love Springsteen (being a NJ boy myself) but I can't listen to a live show by Bruce. The Dead were revolutionary in what they did musically, stoned, on acid or straight. They get a bad rap about the drugs too---just about every other major band from that time fought the drug and booze monkey. Unfortunately, some, like Jerry didn't make it out alive and we lost some great musicians. I think it is narrow-minded to categorize or judge the Dead just on the basis of their drug use or some of their jam songs (Hey, I turn off Darkstar, Space and 'Drums too---but those structureless, jam or noodling tunes were the exception and not the rule. Taken as a whole, I personally think the Dead were one of the best bands in history---a close second to the Allman Brothers in my book.

 

Now to the OP---I have always thought Brent was a very aggressive organist. He didn't come in nice and soft and easy---he came on like a bull in a china shop. His playing on the Hammond pushed Jerry to new heights. He played some tasty EP too. I would suggest you really listen and aspire to play as close to Brent as you can. Listen....practice with the band often...learn to key into the song and jam or lay back when best. Learn how Brent liked to use the drawbars and his frequent use of the fast Leslie. I think he was one of the best Hammond dudes in rock. Keith was a great piano player, but he tended to lay back in the mix and tickle along. Pigpen was mostly your typical straight, back-bone style player...nothing fancy. INHO, all the others after Brent were just sit in subs. If you want to play keys like Brent, throw yourself out there and fight for center stage with your Jerry dude, It will push you both to play better and will make the band sound more like the Dead live than going with the Keith or Pigpen style. And it will make your audiences's jaw drop too.

 

I hope to be in the OP's position soon as i want to start a Southern Rock/Jam band after I get fully settled into my new world here in Boone, NC....that means selling a house in Charlotte, buying a house in Boone, and finding musicians. I can;t think of anything better though than playing jam band keys, Brent's music and Gregg Allman all night. Woot !!!!