RobHammer Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Don't get me started... although, you just did. My experience is similar: - am asked "to cover the brass parts" or whatever instrument is otherwise missing from the band (note to self: learn trumpet) - am asked to "make something up or play something cool or something" ... which is fine, but they carry on with the guitar-only cover tune using the original arrangement. So, I suggest re-arranging the tune completely, and I get quizzical looks. I think some instrument-centric folks just don't hear where other instruments fit in an arrangement, and that's it. I hear ya! Despite going out as a Hammond player, with 95% of the clips on my site showing me playing the Hammond I am regularly asked to come in and cover brass parts for bands that are too mean to hire a brass section. The best one was a guy claiming he could get gigs paying £10,000 (yes, that is correct, £10k!) but wanted me to cover brass, orchestra and keyboard parts on funk tracks. Mind you the money earned could possibly have paid for the third hand to be grafted on? Alongside those are the bands that just don't get keyboards - you are only there to provide some whiny drone in the background and obviously have nothing else of interest to offer, you almost feel invisible at times Luckily I also work with some Hammond heavy bands where actual musicianship and creative input is appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 The band is boring I mean they were reading charts?? I didn't see them reading charts at North Sea Jazz Festival. Some of my friends are also bored by some bands I like to see live. I am also bored by some of the bands some friends like. But we're still friends. I was not talking about friendship just the fact that players of that caliber should not be readying charts but then Steely Dan is not really a band anyway out of the studio. Plenty of horn bands don't rely on charts, Chicago for example and their stuff is more complicated horn wise than Steely Dan. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 The band is boring I mean they were reading charts?? I didn't see them reading charts at North Sea Jazz Festival. Some of my friends are also bored by some bands I like to see live. I am also bored by some of the bands some friends like. But we're still friends. I was not talking about friendship The point I was making wasn't about friendship. Don't worry about it now - this is clearly a case of "to each his own". just the fact that players of that caliber should not be readying charts but then Steely Dan is not really a band anyway out of the studio. I didn't see charts onstage at the 2007 North Sea Jazz show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I don't mind if I see a concert and the musicians look at charts if they need to. Of course, if they're the featured performer, they can dedicate more attention to stage presence if they DON'T need to! But my jazz instructors are definitely teaching me not to depend on the Real Book all the time, but to memorize the tunes - learn them so well I don't need the RB. And a lot of those tunes are not so freakin' difficult you can't learn them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Verelst Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I've told and agree with the Jazz teachers. Both for guitarists and other chord-capable instruments featuring a good Jazz song must be accompanied by a solid (probably less than the originals) interpretation and harmonisation, and it should probably be simply forbidden to play them like a classical piece, even if it is for some single improvisation, but preferably more. *IF* you can approach the original chording and phrasing, that whole story changes, and then is different for guitar players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I don't mind if I see a concert and the musicians look at charts if they need to. Of course, if they're the featured performer, they can dedicate more attention to stage presence if they DON'T need to! But my jazz instructors are definitely teaching me not to depend on the Real Book all the time, but to memorize the tunes - learn them so well I don't need the RB. And a lot of those tunes are not so freakin' difficult you can't learn them. There are a couple of local musicians who host Sunday Jazz Lounge in DC, leading a regular quartet. They don't always read off of charts but have them handy for guest musicians who might not know certain tunes. Doesn't bother me when they bust out the charts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offnote Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Anybody else getting tired of guitar bands? show me today one keyboard band which doesn't suck and I start to switch my attention. Times of ELP and King Crimson has gone and won't be back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Anybody else getting tired of guitar bands? show me today one keyboard band which doesn't suck and I start to switch my attention. Times of ELP and King Crimson has gone and won't be back. WTF?? Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Steve, I'm surprised you never heard of that awesome keyboard driven band called King Crimson. Everybody knows of the keyboard exploits of King Crimson great Robert Emerson! And that drummer Carl Bruford - wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 I have been tired of guitar bands since Blue Cheer... '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 - am asked to "make something up or play something cool or something" I would just say... "Nah, I will just take a break while you play this crappy Z Z Top song"... and would just leave the stage and come back when it was over. '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnchop Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 As suggested above, time to do my own thing, and find like-minded folks. Beats complaining, although I may be a one-man act for a while. -John I make software noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammondDave Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 One night I just left the stage, went next door to the jazz club, and sat in on a couple of songs... Went back to the rock club about 20 minutes later... Thank god it was a long version of some Wishbone Ash song (I believe that Wishbone Ash had at least five guitar players... Or maybe it was Blue Oyster Cult... I tried to wipe those bands from my memory...) '55 and '59 B3's; Leslies 147, 122, 21H; MODX 7+; NUMA Piano X 88; Motif XS7; Mellotrons M300 and M400’s; Wurlitzer 206; Gibson G101; Vox Continental; Mojo 61; Launchkey 88 Mk III; Korg Module; B3X; Model D6; Moog Model D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Steve, I'm surprised you never heard of that awesome keyboard driven band called King Crimson. Everybody knows of the keyboard exploits of King Crimson great Robert Emerson! And that drummer Carl Bruford - wow! Is that the Emerson from Emerson Electronics? The descendant from that great poet Frank Zappa Ginsberg-Emerson? Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Steve, I'm surprised you never heard of that awesome keyboard driven band called King Crimson. Everybody knows of the keyboard exploits of King Crimson great Robert Emerson! And that drummer Carl Bruford - wow! lol "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 It's not about the instrument, it's about the player. Like many have said, good music comes before instrumentation for me. Then again, I am pretty excited about my new band, a keys-bass-drums trio. Before we actually jammed we talked about adding guitar. After jamming on one song, we quickly came to the consensus that it wouldn't be necessary. We've got chemistry and are all good enough players that we can fill the room while leaving enough space to experiment. Good times. Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted August 12, 2011 Share Posted August 12, 2011 Question: When was the last time you heard a really good keyboard solo in popular music? Seems most music these days is either guitar-oriented, or dance/electronica if synths predominate. The Canadian duo Chromeo is kinda dance-y and definitely poppy, and I've only heard 3 or so of their songs, but each of those songs has a keyboard solo. One song does have a guitar solo in it, but the keyboard solo follows it immediately to show the guitar who's boss. The solos are on the short side, but nice enough to my ears, and not limited to pentatonic noodling. They have a song that reminds me of "Meeting In The Ladies Room" by Klymaxx. Listening to "Business Casual" right now. One of the big reasons I decided to go to Moogfest. I don't know the Klymaxx tune, but are you perhaps referring to Night by Night? The keys solo is a little shorter, but better. [video:youtube] Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GovernorSilver Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Question: When was the last time you heard a really good keyboard solo in popular music? Seems most music these days is either guitar-oriented, or dance/electronica if synths predominate. The Canadian duo Chromeo is kinda dance-y and definitely poppy, and I've only heard 3 or so of their songs, but each of those songs has a keyboard solo. One song does have a guitar solo in it, but the keyboard solo follows it immediately to show the guitar who's boss. The solos are on the short side, but nice enough to my ears, and not limited to pentatonic noodling. They have a song that reminds me of "Meeting In The Ladies Room" by Klymaxx. Listening to "Business Casual" right now. One of the big reasons I decided to go to Moogfest. I don't know the Klymaxx tune, but are you perhaps referring to Night by Night? The keys solo is a little shorter, but better. [video:youtube] No, it was another song. Here's the Klymaxx tune: [video:youtube] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJUSCULE Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Saw a pretty decent band last night at the local Fringe. Trio, funky kind of drum 'n' bass with digeridoo. Tight rhythm section, interesting sounds with the digeridoo running through some effects and the drummer running a few sequences on a laptop. They had a cool street feel, don't know if they play differently in studio or at a real show. Eric Website Gear page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outkaster Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 If a band does not have keyboards my interest generally drops down a few notches and I don't care how good the players are. "Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello" noblevibes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nightime Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 The other night I was watching Palladium. Had Guitar Legend Jeff Beck. You might think it would be solely guitar oriented, but he surrounded himself with such incredible players, that I was plesently surprised. The line up Jeff Beck - Guitar Tal Wilkenfeld - Bass - She looks like she's 15, but is an unbelievable player Vinnie Colaiuta - Drums Jason Robello - Keys Jason played some incredible parts. And the camera actually trained on his hands while he was playing those parts. My only issue was his synth lines were a bit low in the mix. Audible, but not quite out front enough. "In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome. So God helped him and created woman. Now everybody's got the blues." Willie Dixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnchop Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 That "Live at Ronnie Scott's" show is the shnit... Jeff Beck being--of course--in a different league than the guys who want to play through the classic rock standards list. His music has long been keyboard-friendly. Great synth parts on many tunes, mostly for atmosphere but never boring to play. I make software noises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nightime Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I loved the harmony lines that Jason was doing with Jeff. My wife, who also plays piano, was in total awe watching his hands. It was so nice to see a concert where they actually filmed what the keyboardist was playing "In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome. So God helped him and created woman. Now everybody's got the blues." Willie Dixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Yes, if the keyboardist is the soloist, he/she should be the focus of attention. It's just common sense. Jeff Beck, at least judging by Ronnie Scott's, gives his fellow players all due credit onstage. He's not a limelight hound - surely at this stage in his career, he doesn't have anything to gain by it! LOL "No divas no need apply...." If there's one thing that I don't wanna Is to play with a freakin' prima donna.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nightime Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 Yes, if the keyboardist is the soloist, he/she should be the focus of attention. It's just common sense. Jeff Beck, at least judging by Ronnie Scott's, gives his fellow players all due credit onstage. He's not a limelight hound - surely at this stage in his career, he doesn't have anything to gain by it! LOL "No divas no need apply...." If there's one thing that I don't wanna Is to play with a freakin' prima donna.... I agree. Jeff looked to be very appreciative of all the band members. I noticed on one song there was a very difficult transition that the band nailed. It must have been a section that had given trouble in rehearsal, because Jeff wiped his brow in "Relief" after that passage. Adds some humility to fantastic players, and shows that even at that level, the potential for a train wreck is there. "In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome. So God helped him and created woman. Now everybody's got the blues." Willie Dixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 "I hear the train a comin', it's rollin' round the bend....." LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nightime Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 "I ain't seen the sunshine, since I don't know when" "In the beginning, Adam had the blues, 'cause he was lonesome. So God helped him and created woman. Now everybody's got the blues." Willie Dixon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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