Garrafon Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I will admit first off that I'm not the biggest fan of American Idol. To be sure, there are some great musicians and some great talents on the show, but I have my issues with the show (which I won't bother to state here). So, with my bias set out up front.... Last night, I was doing some work on the computer in the room next to my wife, where she was watching American Idol. I could hear the "music." It appeared that part of last night's contest involved contestants putting their "personality" of some well known songs (there was one in particular I kept on hearing, but can't remember what it was right now). It seemed to my ears that each performance was a Christine Aguillera-type "Star Spangled Bannering." Every vowel of every word was stretched into 32 syllables and 168 notes (ok, I exaggerate a bit, but you get the point). And the contestants tend to get rewarded for this. Why not just have a yodeling contest? Can't a singer be good by simply singing a song well? Do they have to cram every note known into every word? We often talk here about the notion of overplaying; about "less is more; etc. There was a thread not too long ago about players who can tear it up, but don't. It seems to me that the American Idol "mentality" is causing people think that, to be good, they have to do what Christine Aguilera did to the Star Spangled Banner (in my opinion - destroy it). You have to "showboat" how many notes you can add to an otherwise perfectly good song. In my opinion, American Idol only fuels this false sense of "good." Rant over... for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Muscara Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 It's not to blame, the problem existed long before AI. That being said, it could be making things worse. Then again, what could be worse than a HUGE NATIONAL SHOW focusing on singers??? "I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck "The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 In my opinion, American Idol only fuels this false sense of "good." +1 When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Iverson Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The problem is that the singers feel that this is their "big chance to make it big" which may be in fact be true. They have to make an impression with just one song, and it's clearly a competition. This is not a gig where the singer can take their time and set a mood, and relate to a knowledgeable audience on a one to one basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Best opinion out there IMO : [video:youtube] Great guy, great mind. "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwhite9 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I watch the show during the top 10. It's a trainwreck. But then again I'm not the audience. I think Dylan and Tom Waits and Lou Reed can sing. I've spent more time listening to those 3 artists than the total universe of "female pop artists who depend on production and songwiring teams" genre of music. Whitney and Celine are to blame. In the 70s most women thought they had to sound like Janis or Aretha. You'd get ridiculous press hype like "Chi Coltrane - the Canadian Janis Joplin". And the 100s of bad Streisand imitators you no longer remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Pop music has a huge influence on modern "singers". They are emulating the good and bad of what they hear on records, awards shows, concerts, etc. IMO, American Idol (AI) takes its lead from there and only makes it worse by putting these singers on a national stage. That could lead a future generation of singers into believing they have to yodel for attention too. It is unfortunate that AI and Pop music in general revolves around finding the next star or hit record which we know has little or nothing to do with being a pure singer. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Alfredson Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The predominant use of melisma started in black gospel churches and has been around for a long time. All the soul singers in the 50s and 60s used it, but they did so judiciously. Stevie Wonder started using it more and more, but still with taste. Donny Hathaway, same thing. In the 80s, it started to get silly. Luther Vandross, Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey... it started to be more about vocal gymnastics than anything. Now it's everywhere. Keep it greazy! B3tles - Soul Jazz THEO - Prog Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrafon Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 The predominant use of melisma . . . . Just wanted to thank you for teaching me a new term. I had never heard that one before. I could have saved a lot of bytes if I said "melismatic technique" instead of "Christine Aguillera like Star Spangled Bannering." Good think Greg Allman didn't melisma on Melissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusker Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 It's a game/reality show, nothing more. Star Search on steroids as it were. The train wrecks and occasional moments of brilliance are what it's all about. I don't think it is any more symbolic then any other form of entertainment. The overwhelming number of contestants would have gone their careers completely unheard of in the past, now a few of them get 15 minutes of fame, I think its pretty harmless and more symptomatic of modern day attention spans, as opposed to the cause. No more damning than Wheel of Fortune or Survivor. Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusker Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 And more OT...or maybe this is on topic given my point of attention spans. I never really cared about J-Lo, although I did like her in a few of her movie roles. But now, I'm somewhat hooked...ON HER. When I found out she was actually about a year older than me, for some reason her WOW factor increased dramatically. Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I've played backup for 5-6 of em, the most famous being Clay Aiken. The others were finalists, one was named Diana DiGarmo or something, I can't remember the others. They all had one thing in common: they all seemed very uncomfortable. I found that interesting, and a telling commentary on the whole process. They all skipped the entire formative, dues-paying step, and it was painfully obvious. They weren't comfortable in the show or the rehearsal, it was like a kid wearing a tux for the first time to be in a wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adan Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 The predominant use of melisma . . . . Just wanted to thank you for teaching me a new term. I had never heard that one before. I could have saved a lot of bytes if I said "melismatic technique" instead of "Christine Aguillera like Star Spangled Bannering." Good think Greg Allman didn't melisma on Melissa I sometimes confuse melisma with miasma. Which is kind of appropriate. My last girlfriend was an American Idol fan. I think for her, the music was tangential. She was more interested in the personalities and the "stories" that developed. I hated being in the room (or even the next room) when it was on, but you know, there's worse things going on in the world than TV singing competitions. Gigging: Crumar Mojo 61, Hammond SKPro Home: Vintage Vibe 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrafon Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I sometimes confuse melisma with miasma. Which is kind of appropriate. Considering the circumstances, I don't see a difference. My last girlfriend was an American Idol fan. I think for her, the music was tangential. She was more interested in the personalities and the "stories" that developed. I hated being in the room (or even the next room) when it was on, but you know, there's worse things going on in the world than TV singing competitions. I think you are right, this is a big part of the show - the soap opera behind the music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 It's a game/reality show, nothing more. Star Search on steroids as it were. The train wrecks and occasional moments of brilliance are what it's all about. I don't think it is any more symbolic then any other form of entertainment. The overwhelming number of contestants would have gone their careers completely unheard of in the past, now a few of them get 15 minutes of fame, I think its pretty harmless and more symptomatic of modern day attention spans, as opposed to the cause. No more damning than Wheel of Fortune or Survivor. I disagree, i don't think it's harmless, it gives those people the idea that being famous is all that matters, that being a pop star is their goal in life. and that the show have to power to do that. "ok, here you can become a star overnight, or you can be a musician, write your music and play for 20 people". People will choose the 1st option, easily. i agree it's the people's fault for watching and supporting such a fake product, and buying the damn cds. shame on you, people. "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I disagree, i don't think it's harmless, it gives those people the idea that being famous is all that matters, that being a pop star is their goal in life. and that the show have to power to do that. "ok, here you can become a star overnight, or you can be a musician, write your music and play for 20 people". I don't find it much different than what came before i.e. Star Search, game shows, quiz shows. Ever heard of Dr. Joyce Brothers? She won a game show. The ones that are killing society are the "reality" stars that poop out kids or act like biatches to get on the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I find AI far more deliberate and focused than Star Search and similar ilk of a previous iteration, in that it consistently and specifically promotes one distinct model / mold of it has defined for a pop vocalist. It seems to have single-handedly "empowered" the American public to believe they can judge and assess any singer based on the single criteria of "pitchiness" despite being unable to discern the use of autotune or pre-recorded tracks. One-dimensional, replaceable and interchangeable "winners" are the result. This is as much a natural consequence of the genre itself, rather than the television machine which is simply an natural outgrowth thereof. While the "cult of personality gone to seed" mentality which has brought us Jersey Shore and the Kardashians (and its impact on culture/society) is fodder for another thread, I wonder what stultifying effects AI (and that genre's perspective on music) will have on creativity and art in culture over the long run. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 OT: I wish J-Lo would dress a little more age appropriate. At almost 42 you don't need to dress like a teen to look sexy. My take is she dresses that way to keep more eyes on her. In a talent competition it should be about the contestants. Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 "Mutton dressed like lamb". .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Beaumont Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I wonder what stultifying effects AI (and that genre's perspective on music) will have on creativity and art in culture over the long run. I don't know I think at some point the customer loses interest and the pendulum starts swinging the other way as alternative artists start becoming main stream. Sites like YouTube are an outlet for creative expression. As has been stated before our attention spans are getting shorter. I don't see American Idol lasting many more seasons. Boards: Kurzweil SP-6, Roland FA-08, VR-09, DeepMind 12 Modules: Korg Radias, Roland D-05, Bk7-m & Sonic Cell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
area51recording Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 As a 53 year old professional, I'm acutely aware of how the whole "dues paying" aspect, while so important in my career, especially in the early days, really dosen't exist anymore....it's like the Karaoke Kings that can get onstage and KILL one song...the whole place goes bonkers....and all I can think is, "wow, that's really great. Do you have 4 more hours of that?" I once saw a guy in a bar in ATL bring the house DOWN to it's collective knees by lip syncing "Mony Mony" using a ketchup bottle as a mic, for Christ's sake....you'd think the dude was Mick Jagger for the way those boneheads were carrying on. I think for a certain (large) segment of society any kind of taste has become optional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 In the last 50 years, we have shifted from a society where music was experienced and practiced in person to one where the boob toob and the internet provide a million distractions. Musicians with skill and talent were better appreciated when musical instruments were in every house, and a social gathering which featured music meant that the music was performed live. Today, musicianship is not valued or even recognized by most. Technology plays a part too, but music doesn't really occupy a special place in our lives anymore. It's just one of many distractions competing for attention. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthoid Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 I've played backup for 5-6 of em, the most famous being Clay Aiken. The others were finalists, one was named Diana DiGarmo or something, I can't remember the others. They all had one thing in common: they all seemed very uncomfortable. I found that interesting, and a telling commentary on the whole process. They all skipped the entire formative, dues-paying step, and it was painfully obvious. They weren't comfortable in the show or the rehearsal, it was like a kid wearing a tux for the first time to be in a wedding. Yeah, I don't have much respect for people who step into the limelight and receive instant accolades. Reminds me of folks who are handed easy, high-paying "Martha Stewart" jobs, but once again, I'm beating a dead horse. When an eel hits your eye like a big pizza pie, that's a Moray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Jx Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Lighten up guys. It's TV. My 78 year old mother watches it. My 12 year old nephew watches it. It's a vehicle that allows a grandmother and grandson to share in their appreciation of music. The intergenerational aspect of AI viewing is typical, and, IMO, a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fusker Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 People have been looking for shortcuts to fame and riches forever. Idol is very akin to state lottos/gambling/panning for gold/take your historic pick. What message is being sent? Riches without paying your dues!!? Society will now collapse! Who cares if a bunch of 12 year-olds don't get the concept of paying your dues? The overwhelming majority will discover otherwise soon enough. If some kids are THAT misguided, I submit their horrible parents would have doomed them in some other way, with or without Idol. Steinway L, Yamaha Motif XS-8, NE3 73, Casio PX-5S, iPad, EV ZLX 12-P ZZ(x2), bunch of PA stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonianKing Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Lighten up guys. It's TV. My 78 year old mother watches it. My 12 year old nephew watches it. It's a vehicle that allows a grandmother and grandson to share in their appreciation of music. The intergenerational aspect of AI viewing is typical, and, IMO, a good thing. Yeah, it's TV alright. that's why i haven't watched more than 3 or 4 things on it in 10 years. If i want music, i'll buy cds or listen to online radios. If i want movies, i'll buy or rent them. If i want to study, there are books. If i want to know what's going on around the world, well, there's internet and if i want to be entertained some other way, i'll just go out. I don't find anything on tv interesting whatsoever, maybe the animal planet channel. And AI is just another waste of time in all aspects. "The purple piper plays his tune, The choir softly sing; Three lullabies in an ancient tongue, For the court of the crimson king" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnus64 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 OT: I wish J-Lo would dress a little more age appropriate. At almost 42 you don't need to dress like a teen to look sexy. My take is she dresses that way to keep more eyes on her. In a talent competition it should be about the contestants. BLASPHEMER! The Sluttier the better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrafon Posted February 17, 2011 Author Share Posted February 17, 2011 I don't begrudge anyone for trying to find a quick way to riches (fame I don't personally care so much about). If the AI producers approached me and told me I had a reasonable shot at success by bleating out some vocals, I'd probably even do it. As we often here on this forum "how much does it pay?" That does not change my original point that AI (and similar shows) distort what "good" really is. Just say, as a far-fetched example, I won AI. I would still never consider myself good, because I know better. In fact, I often consider myself a musical fraud when people come up at shows and say "man, wow, you are so good, blah blah blah." If they only knew the truth (did you hear the clams?). . . which brings us full circle to the underlying theme in so many threads we've had here: good to the musicians does not equal good to the masses. But, so it appears, as long as the herd is happy, that's what seems to keep the world spinning 'round (or, at least, the money flowing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwhite9 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Managers manufactured teen pop idols by the dozens in the 50s. We remember the ones who lasted. How many stories from the Do- Wop era of bands that got put together for one single, one big break, one chance to be '18 with a bullet', in a quest for fame to get themselves out of their humble beginnings and be seen on Bandstands. See the history of 16 Magazine and teen magazines from the 50s. An yes, the same myth that they were all living the good life was sold and invariably the truth started to surface about financial and sexual predators and the teen idols. I can't discuss morality and AI or Reality TV seriously given the history of Jazz and Rock artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richwhite9 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 OT: I wish J-Lo would dress a little more age appropriate. At almost 42 you don't need to dress like a teen to look sexy. My take is she dresses that way to keep more eyes on her. In a talent competition it should be about the contestants. BLASPHEMER! The Sluttier the better! Otherwise we'd have to listen to her. And who really wants to listen to Kara or Ellen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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