OT: Is American Idol to blame??

[Garrafon]

I guess it's just sad to hear someone (actually, so MANY people) discussing an AI episode and saying "wow, so-and-so was so good...she/he is such a good singer, what skill, blah blah blah," when, no, she/he wasn't and no, she/he isn't.

[The Real MC]

Lighten up guys. It's TV.

 

My 78 year old mother watches it. My 12 year old nephew watches it. It's a vehicle that allows a grandmother and grandson to share in their appreciation of music. The intergenerational aspect of AI viewing is typical, and, IMO, a good thing.

 

Lighten up? I think not. Any program that rewards posers over talent is not a good influence. Stuff like this is teaching kids that you don't have to work hard to succeed and life is all shortcuts. Sadly Real Life is far from that. Look at our unemployment condition today. So many people are out of work today because they developed this poor work ethic. My company is hiring big time, but they don't want the candidates with the poor work ethics and they don't want to waste resources on reversing them. Companies are hiring but there is a lack of qualified candidates.

[Fusker]

All with a grain of salt! From what I saw last night, 75% was terrible, 20% was ok, 5% was good or better. As they say, it is what it is. This is entertainment, not great music or a parable for life. If a parent relies on shows like this to teach their kids how life works, they were already doomed.

 

If someone isn't entertained by it, I totally get it...just turn off your TV or change the channel.

 

As to Jay-Lo, she's lookin fine and is a vast improvement in every facet.

[CrimsonianKing]

Lighten up guys. It's TV.

 

My 78 year old mother watches it. My 12 year old nephew watches it. It's a vehicle that allows a grandmother and grandson to share in their appreciation of music. The intergenerational aspect of AI viewing is typical, and, IMO, a good thing.

 

Lighten up? I think not. Any program that rewards posers over talent is not a good influence. Stuff like this is teaching kids that you don't have to work hard to succeed and life is all shortcuts. Sadly Real Life is far from that. Look at our unemployment condition today. So many people are out of work today because they developed this poor work ethic. My company is hiring big time, but they don't want the candidates with the poor work ethics and they don't want to waste resources on reversing them. Companies are hiring but there is a lack of qualified candidates.

 

+1 Agree 100%, it's easy to complain when you're not qualified for anything but to work in an office answering phone calls. "there are no jobs out there", ok sir, and what can you do? ... oh, i thought so, next." now, back to AI...you're totally right, it's such a bad influence to new "talents", i remember when i played a gig with my sister, all she wanted to sing was AI's stuff, it saddened me.

[Joe Muscara]

How many stories from the Do- Wop era of bands that got put together for one single, one big break, one chance to be '18 with a bullet', in a quest for fame to get themselves out of their humble beginnings and be seen on Bandstands.

http://www.45cat.com/image/065/the-wonders-that-thing-you-do-play-tone.jpg

 

Jimmy Webb talks a lot about the problems of melisma in his book Tunesmith (that's where I first became familiar with the term). IIRC he says much the same as was said here. He must be banging his head against the wall nowadays.

 

As far as AI itself, I *literally* can't get past that horrid, horrid theme song at the top. Even if I wanted to watch it, I couldn't.

[johnchop]

This is entertainment, not great music or a parable for life. If a parent relies on shows like this to teach their kids how life works, they were already doomed. If someone isn't entertained by it, I totally get it...just turn off your TV or change the channel.

 

Amen.

[Cygnus64]

Lighten up guys. It's TV.

 

My 78 year old mother watches it. My 12 year old nephew watches it. It's a vehicle that allows a grandmother and grandson to share in their appreciation of music. The intergenerational aspect of AI viewing is typical, and, IMO, a good thing.

 

Lighten up? I think not. Any program that rewards posers over talent is not a good influence.

 

You could probably go back to Caveman time and make the same argument. There have always been those who beat the system, got quick fame, relied on nepotism/cronyism, or used their T and A to great advantage. There have been rigged quiz shows, actors on the Dating Game, all sorts of shenanigans.

 

Here's another lesson to teach kids: life isn't always fair. Sometimes, you lose that job to an idiot. A rich guy's kid doesn't get a DUI, but you will. Some bad musicians might gain fame or success, and you might not even if you're 50 times better.

[Eric Jx]

Lighten up guys. It's TV.

 

My 78 year old mother watches it. My 12 year old nephew watches it. It's a vehicle that allows a grandmother and grandson to share in their appreciation of music. The intergenerational aspect of AI viewing is typical, and, IMO, a good thing.

 

Lighten up? I think not. Any program that rewards posers over talent is not a good influence. Stuff like this is teaching kids that you don't have to work hard to succeed and life is all shortcuts. Sadly Real Life is far from that. Look at our unemployment condition today. So many people are out of work today because they developed this poor work ethic. My company is hiring big time, but they don't want the candidates with the poor work ethics and they don't want to waste resources on reversing them. Companies are hiring but there is a lack of qualified candidates.

 

It's bad enough that Idol is responsible for the overuse of melisma, it's also responsible for the high unemployment rate.

I've also heard that Simon Cowell spends his spare time running over puppies with his snow mobile.

 

How could I have been so wrong? AI is prime time evil.

[lerber3]

AI's are selected by the public whim... not by musical quality or musical talent. There's probably a lesson in there somewhere for those who'd like to 'make it big'. A little bit of whoring goes a long way .

 

The amazing thing is when somebody stays pure to their art and talent and still becomes successful. Personally, I'm going to bitch and moan my way to success.

[Sundown]

 

I generally can't stand American Idol, but it's not uncommon to be in a place where it's on, at which point I'll pay attention. I was biased before seeing a single episode (musical contests are seldom a good thing, especially in pop). But American Idol isn't about music. It's about personal stories (the more tragic the better), and it's about on-air drama. The people who don't win often do better than those who do.

 

But what makes me chuckle most of all are the contestants who think that winning is the answer to their problems. Getting sucked into that merciless promotional machine and a lopsided record deal is just the beginning of their problems...

 

 

[SpaceNorman]

I fully expect to take my share of lumps for the following opinion - but bottom line is, once AI finishes up the "cattle call auditions and the "hell week" thing in Hollywood to get to their final pool of contestants - virtually everybody in that pool is a reasonably competent vocalist.

 

While we may not care for their tone, may not care for their style, may not care for their image and simply may not care for them period - with very few exceptions, the bulk of us forumites would kill to be lucky enough to be playing with vocalists with their ability.

 

Sure, the cattle call auditions are tripe ... filled with headcases and nutjobs. But as much as I love to hate it (and I do hate it - simply because my wife is glued to the TV when it's on) - I can't deny that once they hit the top 20, pretty much every one of them can sing (even if their singing just doesn't float my boat).

 

I can't help but feel there's an sizeable quantity of "sour grapes" driving musician disdain for the show.

[Cygnus64]

I fully expect to take my share of lumps for the following opinion - but bottom line is, once AI finishes up the "cattle call auditions and the "hell week" thing in Hollywood to get to their final pool of contestants - virtually everybody in that pool is a reasonably competent vocalist.

 

 

There are always several put in that are there for some other reason, like the comic foil or the "how do they keep winning" saga. Local boy Scott Savol was one, he couldnt sing his way out of a paper bag.

 

I like the show, it's one of the few I can watch with my gal that we both can tolerate. I see it for what it is: a scripted talent show/popularity contest. The finales are always good, and Simon was a hoot. It's well done, it makes for decent TV.

[SpaceNorman]

There are always several put in that are there for some other reason, like the comic foil or the "how do they keep winning" saga.

 

There some truth to that ... but even those AI contestents that fall into the category you've described usually always seem to find a tune or two that fits them well and that they do a pretty decent job with technically speaking. As much as I may hate to admit it - once AI gets to their final pool - every one of the vocalists in that pool is capable of delivering a tune that blows the doors off 99% of the talent in my neck of the woods.

 

There's alot of cheezy stuff about AI that's easy to hate on - but when musos start dismissing it ALL as purely a popularity contest - that's gotta be the green eyed monster we're hearing from.

[Malpaugh]

It broke my heart to hear how many of them butchered "God Bless the Child" last night and how the judges gushed over each over-the-top rendition. Nobody bothered to really just "sing" the song.

[Malpaugh]

It broke my heart to hear how many of them butchered "God Bless the Child" last night and how the judges gushed over each over-the-top rendition. Nobody bothered to really just "sing" the song.

 

Or was it "Georgia on My Mind"? It's hard to remember as no vocal cliche went unused in each display.

[Aidan]

I agree with Jim that it all went wrong with Whitney

 

Her version of I Will Always Love You is the epitomy of technique triumphing over taste.

 

But Cowell IS the anti-Christ.

[Aidan]

Btw, one technique which I have come to loathe almost as much as the overuse of melisma is that of male vocalists constantly singing across the break, with vocal lines dotted with falsetto. Now, that really IS yodelling...

[Synthoid]

I can't help but feel there's an sizeable quantity of "sour grapes" driving musician disdain for the show.

 

Perhaps I'm one of those "grapes", as I've seen more than my share of people making it to the "top" after paying little or no dues--especially in the job world.

 

But I'm also reminded of a close friend who was an amazing artist and spent his retirement years creating some beautiful work that he tried to sell at galleries and also online. His art was amazing--I bought a few pieces myself--but he never was successful. There were various other artists doing similar things that did make it big... that's life, but still it saddened me to see his numerous canvases stacked around the studio. He passed away three years ago.

 

[richwhite9]

This is the fate of the number 10 contestant from Season 2. Not exactly the death of Western Civilization.

 

>> Juli Demato was unable to secure a recording contract with an established company. Living in her home town of Brookfield CT, and working once more as a cosmetologist, she has appeared as a singer on an occasional basis, mostly in Connecticut.

 

On June 18, 2009, Julia DeMato began hosting a 12-week "Summer Idol" Karaoke event at Rowley's Tavern, a local Irish style pub located in Norwalk, Connecticut. Julia starts off the evening singing a song, then offering color commentary and announcing upcoming singers. Other appearances in Connecticut include singing the National Anthem at the Thompson International Speedway at a NASCAR event.

 

In December, 2005, she made a brief return to the news when she was arrested and charged with possession of marijuana and cocaine, as well as driving while intoxicated after failing a field sobriety test in her hometown of . Brookfield, CT.

 

 

 

[Eric Jx]

I fully expect to take my share of lumps for the following opinion - but bottom line is, once AI finishes up the "cattle call auditions and the "hell week" thing in Hollywood to get to their final pool of contestants - virtually everybody in that pool is a reasonably competent vocalist.

 

While we may not care for their tone, may not care for their style, may not care for their image and simply may not care for them period - with very few exceptions, the bulk of us forumites would kill to be lucky enough to be playing with vocalists with their ability.

 

Sure, the cattle call auditions are tripe ... filled with headcases and nutjobs. But as much as I love to hate it (and I do hate it - simply because my wife is glued to the TV when it's on) - I can't deny that once they hit the top 20, pretty much every one of them can sing (even if their singing just doesn't float my boat).

 

I think this is correct, for the most part. Where I think the show goes horribly wrong is when they select children to compete. I think this year they are allowing 15 year olds. Very few of them offer anything other than the cuteness factor. And even if one of them wins, does the world need to create any more Miley Cirus's?

[Eric Jx]

Back to the OP's point: AI and melisma.

 

The 3 AI contestant who have had the best post-AI careers are Kelly Clarkston, Carrie Underwood, and Chris Daughtry.

 

2 out of the 3 don't use Melisma at all.

 

Maybe there's a lesson in there

[Synthoid]

does the world need to create any more Miley Cirus's?

 

Absolutely not.

[Tonysounds]

In December, 2005, she made a brief return to the news when she was arrested and charged with possession of marijuana and cocaine, as well as driving while intoxicated after failing a field sobriety test in her hometown of . Brookfield, CT.

 

 

 

I know, right? I mean, that has to be the fault of AI. Regular non-singing working stiffs have never been caught in this situation.

 

Thats just a stupid is as stupid does or for many, there but for the grace of God situation.

[Cygnus64]

As much as I may hate to admit it - once AI gets to their final pool - every one of the vocalists in that pool is capable of delivering a tune that blows the doors off 99% of the talent in my neck of the woods.

 

It needs to be 100%.

 

but when musos start dismissing it ALL as purely a popularity contest - that's gotta be the green eyed monster we're hearing from.

 

For some maybe. For others it's wisdom. They know what it takes to build a career, to acquire the all-around skills needed. Playing or singing well is one small part of a career.

 

The news here followed local boy Scott Savol for a while, kinda like "Where are they now". It didn't help matters that he was cocky and arrogant, but he had the "I'm gonna rule the world" thing going on. He got to sing at an Indians game, then a musical, then at a local joint or two. He then did a wedding fair. He put out a single on i-Tunes and he sold like 200 tracks. He's now assumedly back in "normal" life.

 

That's the fate of most. They didn't build a career from scratch. They didn't have all those trials and tribulations, they didn't knock on doors, they didn't play those crap gigs we've all played and work their way up. They didn't learn that you'll be knocked down, and you get back up. Nobody told them that their next gig after the Arena tour is going to be at the Fargo VFW, and to appreciate even having that gig.

 

Clay Aiken thought his sh*t didn't stink. I don't blame him, he never learned the trade. I'll give him enormous credit for building a career, good for him. He has an average amount of talent, he took his 15 minutes and ran with it and he deserves kudos for that. But I'd hardly mistake him for a good singer or musician. When one goes from average Joe to the limelight, a lot are gonna think their sh*t doesn't stink, and that's a lesson that should have been learned early in a career, not at the peak of it. I think a lot of the "green-eyed monster" is actually people who know the reality.

[Tonysounds]

The thing you have to remember about AI is we dont see all the contestants; I dont think the 3 judges even see all the contestants: theres screening going on that obviously is filtering out a lot of uninteresting talent because theres no story, no hook, no circus quality or drama, and that makes for boring television.

I dont blame AI for oversinging. I dont even believe it breeds it. I cant recall a single televised Aretha performance where I didnt wish I was wearing a seatbelt, honestly. Regardless of your particular art, theres a maxim that most ignore: just because you can doesnt mean you should. Or if thats too oblique, how about a little goes a long way. On the one hand, given the median age of these contestants, theres a stunning amount of ability out there: taste and restraint and phrasing will develop when they get out and start working. On the other hand, many will never grow out of it. There was a guitar player we knew that used to hang at a jam night we used to go to 20 years ago. We called him Whammy Mike. Mike was completely incapable of playing 3 notes without grabbing his diwhammy bar. He was very fast (big deal); he hammered on (yawn); he had the ego (surprise!). One night, I just couldnt take it anymore. He played his first song, done with all the aplomb he normally exuded, and jam packed with all his Mike-isms. Before he started the second song, I put $5 out and said Mike, if you can play this whole song without grabbing that bar, its yours. He declined. I offered him $10: he was a little shaken up. So I grabbed the mic and said this here $20 goes to Mike if he can play the next song of his choice without grabbing the bar, but he has to leave it on the guitar. Needless to say he was pissed, but took the wager. Epic Fail. He couldnt do it. He didnt make it past the intro. Worse yet, I think I ruined that guy for life (sorry Mike); but honestly, other than being fast and having sussed out the guitar melismas of the day (dive bombs, sweep picking, 2 handed tapping), he had nothing. He couldnt play a diatonic scale or even a pentatonic scale without delivering some seafood with it, so in the end, I probably did him a favor. But boy, he THOUGHT he was the shiznit. All AI does is put 20,000 of these people in a stadium to see what happens. Im okay with that! For many, this shortens the learning curve and saves them years and improves them. For others, this shortens the learning curve and shows them they never were going to have it and saves them years.

 

I was discussing this with my wife last nite: some of these contestants who do not make it through Hollywood can still have a great musical life if they want to (and should) doing what most of us do: make a second job of it (or simply a hobby). Theyre very decent vocalists (who probably play an instrument) and can be in bands for the rest of their lives, and would be highly sought musicians in their prospective circles. If any of us walked into a place where they happened to be performing, it is likely they would not chase us out with their musicianship, and wed stay and watch them perform as we do in many instances when we are pleasantly surprised.

The other thing is that many musicians would consider even trying out for AI beneath them, or just antithetical to what theyre about (that certainly would have been me). I dont believe AI represents everyone, or their artistic intentions or executions. Dylan? Petty? Waits? Axl Rose? No. Freddie Mercury? Quite possibly! AI doesnt represent all of musicians, but I do think its a useful forum for them, and for us. I dont know his name, but the guy last nite who reharmonized Georgiawith his upright bass? It was worth watching the show just to see him. (Im still not sure if he was just killing it on the upright or wanking it, but his singing was fantastic.) His initial audition he rocked the Melodica. That guy is a soulful musician, and even if I never see or hear him after this show, Im glad I got the opportunity to hear him thus far: I DIG that guy!

Simon Cowell, the Antichrist? Hardly. Hes snarky personified, but he speaks the truth, and really isnt interested in coddling any of these Xtina wannabes. The real world wont, so hes doing them a favor, and entertaining me in the process. (Funny how often his assessment mirrored my own.) Im a fan.

J-lo? I like her a lot as a judge. Shes not medicated like Paula, and she tempers her nurturing mentoring with some reality. Ellen and Kara? Glad theyre gone. One knew nothing about music, and the other onewell, lets say Im not a fan of her music.

Tyler: as I expected, hes super-watchable, and very entertaining. I expected him to be maybe a little more critical, but on the whole, he brings a nice levity to the proceedings. I think this lineup might be better than the original 3 judges. The chemistry is there.

That said, they put through some real dogs last nite. For the life of me, I cant understand it. But Ill admit it: Im a regular watcher this season. I wasnt sure I would be: my interest in that show wanes depending on the contestants. The Adam Lambert season I was glued to the screen, I was a fan. Last year? Lee Dewyze? Yuck. That was a trainwreck I couldnt keep my eyes off of.

Right now, theres a couple d-bags on the show that I cant wait to see have their asses handed to them.

Yo yo yo dawg, listen, this is really alright for me.

 

[Tonysounds]

And all that being said, I can honestly say Ive never been interested enough to buy ANY of these contestants music, although I will say of the dreck that I heard after the shows were over, Carrie Underwood has had a few hits that I think were pretty good. I did borrow Daughtrys album from the library, and it was just more bland alterna-grunge (as expected), and I never gave it a 2nd listen. So, taking AI for what it is, a more intense game show, I still dont think it represents music I prefer (even in terms of pop music I do).

[Tonysounds]

As much as I may hate to admit it - once AI gets to their final pool - every one of the vocalists in that pool is capable of delivering a tune that blows the doors off 99% of the talent in my neck of the woods.

 

It needs to be 100%.

 

but when musos start dismissing it ALL as purely a popularity contest - that's gotta be the green eyed monster we're hearing from.

 

For some maybe. For others it's wisdom. They know what it takes to build a career, to acquire the all-around skills needed. Playing or singing well is one small part of a career.

 

The news here followed local boy Scott Savol for a while, kinda like "Where are they now". It didn't help matters that he was cocky and arrogant, but he had the "I'm gonna rule the world" thing going on. He got to sing at an Indians game, then a musical, then at a local joint or two. He then did a wedding fair. He put out a single on i-Tunes and he sold like 200 tracks. He's now assumedly back in "normal" life.

 

That's the fate of most. They didn't build a career from scratch. They didn't have all those trials and tribulations, they didn't knock on doors, they didn't play those crap gigs we've all played and work their way up. They didn't learn that you'll be knocked down, and you get back up. Nobody told them that their next gig after the Arena tour is going to be at the Fargo VFW, and to appreciate even having that gig.

 

Clay Aiken thought his sh*t didn't stink. I don't blame him, he never learned the trade. I'll give him enormous credit for building a career, good for him. He has an average amount of talent, he took his 15 minutes and ran with it and he deserves kudos for that. But I'd hardly mistake him for a good singer or musician. When one goes from average Joe to the limelight, a lot are gonna think their sh*t doesn't stink, and that's a lesson that should have been learned early in a career, not at the peak of it. I think a lot of the "green-eyed monster" is actually people who know the reality.

 

What you say is spot on, but we both know that there plenty of real musicians who do/did this their whole life who think their $h!t doesnt stink. (And many of them topped out at the Fargo VFW!) This is not the exclusive trait of AI contestants. Hell, I might even be one of them!

[Adan]

Is AI still going on? Are we in the middle of a season? I don't know, because I don't voluntarily watch TV. But maybe someone should resurrect the "official AI" thread. It gives everyone, musicians and non-musicians, something to talk about. Everyone except me, I guess . . .

[Cygnus64]

What you say is spot on, but we both know that there plenty of real musicians who do/did this their whole life who think their $h!t doesnt stink.

Definitely, but it's almost assured this way. For the record, several of the AI kids I backed up seemed very nice. In general, the manufactured celebrity is going to have a harder time, since they didn't "earn it" ye olde-fashioned way. The Snookis, boy bands, Kate Gosselins and Bristol Palins didn't learn the lessons most of us did, and that tends to build up massive egos.

[Ken Beaumont]

Kelly Pickler and Bucky Covington are doing well on the country charts. Never would have guessed that. They don't use melisma either.