Black music and White people

[mcgoo]

Yeah! ...and all those jokes I've got stored up about those guys who live in Kenya!

 

I'm sure they are better than my jokes about guys with sheep

 

Ouch

 

Don't y'all be talking to them there sheep. They're nothin' but a bunch of liars...

[JeffLearman]

That's the thing about music, it's the great uniter...until people make statements like disco was white people trying to play funk...I didn't realize Barry White was really white...I didn't realize that Gamble and Huff were white...I didn't realize that Gloria Gaynor was white....until people make statements like rock n roll was white people trying to play RnB...didn't realize Little Richard was white...didn't realize Chuck Berry was white...didn't realize Esquerita was white....until people make statements like pop music was white people trying to play soul...didn't realize that Dionne Warwick was white...Didn't realize the Ink Spots were white...didn't realize the Coasters were white...didn't realize the King of Pop was white....

Yup.

I remember hearing Mose Allison talking on the radio about how one time he was called by someone in a prominent Black magazine, asking him lots of questions and saying how he was such a great role model for young Black musicians. Mose said he was flattered but eventually had to ask ...

 

"Um, by the way, you do know I'm white, right?"

(click)

 

Regardless, I reserve the right to chuckle at white folks trying to play black music (including myself).

 

I do not laugh at white folks *actually playing* black music. I just enjoy the music!

 

I don't remember ever chuckling at a black person trying to play "white music". I guess I must be a bigot.

 

I do remember one time seeing a black guy play some really great originals at an open mike night. Talked to him later and commented on how great he sounded; reminded me of James Taylor. He said yeah, he's tring to get away from that. Oh well. We both laughed.

[SK]

That's why the oversensitivity is a sad development, because so much of the best humor is ethnic humor.

Exactly. I don't take any offense to it, but unfortunately more people will find offense (or misguided justifications for ignorant attitudes) than humor, in racial satire. Not everything will be laughed at... with a mass audience on the internet. Meanwhile, so much for music as the "universal language"...

 

And it's not about "lightening up", Zeph. I'm rarely totally serious - I'm light, (if not enlightened.) See: :grin:

Darn, can't even joke about myself without it seeming like a racial pun.

[Bobadohshe]

That's why the oversensitivity is a sad development, because so much of the best humor is ethnic humor.

Exactly. I don't take any offense to it, but unfortunately more people will find offense (or misguided justifications for ignorant attitudes) than humor, in racial satire. Not everything will be laughed at... with a mass audience on the internet. Meanwhile, so much for music as the "universal language"...

 

And it's not about "lightening up", Zeph. I'm rarely totally serious - I'm light, (if not enlightened.) See: :grin:

Darn, can't even joke about myself without it seeming like a racial pun.

 

Man, I've had enough of people saying that racial humor is 'all good' because it's funny and we're all grown up and beyond that and mature. That's ignorant.

 

The spectre of racism is very very deeply woven into the fabric of this country, and cannot be treated as casually as you would treat a joke about religion or the sexes or anything else. We aren't at a point where we can just poke fun at racial differences, at least on a public forum with strangers, at least not yet. And you can't just say 'lighten up'. I hang around plenty of folk of every race here in the So Cal music scene, and know how and when racial humor is appropriate, and when it is, it can be hilarious. But it must be treated expertly with due sensitivity.

 

Lest we forget, a mere 50 years ago segregation was a legislated practice. 50 years is not a long time. And over 200 years, countless hundreds of thousands of people have died fighting for equality and against racism. And millions more have suffered and lived their lives under the onus of discrimination.

 

I know y'all know history and don't need a lesson from me. But all this to say: our society isn't healed yet. It's not 'all good'. Not to the point where it's okay for any old white person to just make any old racial joke they want to any old stranger even in total satire, because it's kind of like saying, "All that racism shit from the past went down, but we're cool now right, no big deal?" Nope.

[kanker.]

Exactly Bobby. I'm as far from PC as you can get, but at the same time I hate ignorance, and it REALLY bugs me when it's racial ignorance that involves music. There's a broad spectrum of people, and a broad spectrum of music, and a broad spectrum of people have participated in playing and creating a broad spectrum of music. We're here to bring people together folks....

[ProfD]

Music has been and will continue to be a great unifier of people. However, it does not cover up racism, ignorance, hate, etc. Folks inherently know that "it isn't all good" in that regard.

 

Beyond music, folks have to continue dealing with their own issues in terms of how they view others and know where to draw the line in their humor or whatever. If not, they will find out PDQ.

[ITGITC]

But it must be treated expertly with due sensitivity.

 

Agreed.

 

We have to continue to work on these issues.

 

It's not an easy topic, yet I believe that it helps to talk about it. I don't want this thread to go away because it's a sensitive issue.

 

A bit of understanding goes a long way. We must retain the ability to laugh at one's self and to realize that satirical humor is prevalent and we'll simply have to deal with it without going off the deep end.

 

Tom

 

 

 

[richwhite9]

The old advice about race, religion and politics will never change.

 

We've adopted a secular peace where these items aren't spoken about casually.

 

We've got a real sensitive election coming up in 2 years that could get explosive given the juncture of race, religion and politics.

 

Music will be needed to heal the soul. And much of it will be eclectic cross-over music inspired by generations of music that came before.

 

 

[zephonic]

Man, I've had enough of people saying that racial humor is 'all good' because it's funny and we're all grown up and beyond that and mature. That's ignorant.

 

OK, fine. But here is a white guy making jokes about white people adopting black music that blacks no longer care for. What exactly is the harm in that?

 

He is white, and made a list of "stuff white people like". It is obviously satirical, I am willing to bet that the majority of readers will be white people. It's that sort of humor.

 

So what is the problem? I understand that racial humor has a different load in the US, but if I can't make fun of Dutch folk (my own people, that is) I am about to lose about half of my repertoire!

 

I feel that some of the comments here are more general statements than addressing this specific (and harmless, IMO) joke.

 

[richwhite9]

The culture of race in the US is very touchy as evidenced by who can use the 'N' word and who can't.

 

Spike Lee can do a movie like 'Bamboozled' where Black Network bosses produce increasingly dumber and dumber post-Cosby 'Negro' shows with increasing success until they've finally reproduced the era of Watermelon Men, Lawn Jockeys, and Black Face Minstrel Shows and have a huge runaway hit that satisfies both Black and White audiences.

 

A white director would be dead. Or given the Mel Gibson or Michael Richards treatment and face career death.

 

 

[Eric Iverson]

Yes, and it's all such major BS maximus, given that there are only a few genes that have anything to do with skin color, out of the many that constitute our heredity.. our "nature", and then we have to address the "nurture" questions.

 

I don't think most people nowadays really want to be racist... but we have to deal with lots of nonsense we didn't start, but still reverberates today, centuries later!

 

PS I was in the supermarket the other day, looking at melons, it being hot and humid. I saw one watermelon called a "Baby Sugar" and another one called "Yellow Flesh" for obvious reasons. I was thinking about naming a rock band. Baby Sugar would be OK, but "Yellow Flesh" would surely offend someone, and no one would believe you if you said, "I'm only talking about watermelons... not PEOPLE! Watermelons..."

[Cygnus64]

I long held onto the notion that "white people can't play Black music".

 

A word about classical music:

 

Symphony auditions are held behind a screen. I've sat on lots of commitees and literally heard thousands of auditions. Not once did I, or anybody else, think that the player was white/black/male/female/asian/bi-sexual paraplegic satanic eskimo. Can't tell.

 

There are lots of Asians in classical. When I was a pup, I used to think that there was an "Asian" way, that was technically superior but lacked "emotion" or something. However, when that screen is up, I've been proven wrong over and over.

 

I think it's the same in pretty much every genre, except for vocals where one might have a better way of "guessing" if one is white/black/canadian. For instrumentalists, "feel" and "groove" are color blind for the most part, they are a techinical issue.

 

PS- girls can't rock unless they happen to be the lead singer of Heart.

[Griffinator]

PS- girls can't rock unless they happen to be the lead singer of Heart.

 

Or Johnette Napolitano...

 

[video:youtube]

 

She can drop that contralto on me all day and twice on Sunday.

[Adan]

Man, I've had enough of people saying that racial humor is 'all good' because it's funny and we're all grown up and beyond that and mature. That's ignorant.

 

OK, fine. But here is a white guy making jokes about white people adopting black music that blacks no longer care for. What exactly is the harm in that?

 

He is white, and made a list of "stuff white people like". It is obviously satirical, I am willing to bet that the majority of readers will be white people. It's that sort of humor.

 

So what is the problem? I understand that racial humor has a different load in the US, but if I can't make fun of Dutch folk (my own people, that is) I am about to lose about half of my repertoire!

 

I feel that some of the comments here are more general statements than addressing this specific (and harmless, IMO) joke.

 

I personally wasn't offended. I make fun of white people all the time. Though, again, not on the internet. You really should know who your audience before you invite the porcupine into the room. That's my take on this. My sister has lived in Kenya (currently Nairobi) for 30 years and many of her best friends have been Africans. She went there to get her PhD studying primates and has made a life out of it. I don't know if that's relevant, but I'm proud of my sister so I will giver her props even on a forum about keyboards.

[Bobadohshe]

I don't think most people nowadays really want to be racist... but we have to deal with lots of nonsense we didn't start, but still reverberates today, centuries later!

 

Decades later. And frankly, it's not over at all. Plenty of racism still to go around, and that's the point. It's not a 'thing of the distant past'.

[ProfD]

As I mentioned in the GUAM thread, musicians can help in healing the divisions by finding a common language (Jazz/Blues) and playing together despite their differences.

[Eric Iverson]

Quote from Cygnus 64:

 

PS- girls can't rock unless they happen to be the lead singer of Heart. cool laugh

------------------------

Girls can't rock unless they wear outlandish costumes and are constantly in and out of jail and/or rehab, at least judging by media coverage. LOL

[DanS]

Quote from Cygnus 64:

 

PS- girls can't rock unless they happen to be the lead singer of Heart. cool laugh

------------------------

Girls can't rock unless they wear outlandish costumes and are constantly in and out of jail and/or rehab, at least judging by media coverage. LOL

 

Grace Potter looks like fun, and she's from Vermont!!!

[B3_borne]

Quote from Cygnus 64:

 

PS- girls can't rock unless they happen to be the lead singer of Heart. cool laugh

------------------------

Girls can't rock unless they wear outlandish costumes and are constantly in and out of jail and/or rehab, at least judging by media coverage. LOL

 

Grace Potter looks like fun, and she's from Vermont!!!

 

+10000000000000000

[richwhite9]

Girls can't rock unless they wear outlandish costumes and are constantly in and out of jail and/or rehab, at least judging by media coverage. LOL

 

The recent Patti Smith PBS special was pretty good. She goes out and does her 'Horses' routine as a near blue hair 63 YO woman. Cutting edge for elderly rock and roll.

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aL02V9s0Kc

[gryphon]

White people shouldn't be listening to rap.

 

Click

[richwhite9]

White people shouldn't be listening to rap.

 

Click

 

If he called it perfomance art and 'an act decrying the lowering of cultural standards in the community' he could get off.

 

[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYT5y8tM_Pc

 

 

 

 

[JeffLearman]

I feel that some of the comments here are more general statements than addressing this specific (and harmless, IMO) joke.

I think and hope you're right.

 

Yes, and it's all such major BS maximus, given that there are only a few genes that have anything to do with skin color, out of the many that constitute our heredity.. our "nature", and then we have to address the "nurture" questions.

Interestingly, while many people think "black" is an ethnic group, the genetic diversity of those most people would call "black" is dramatic. The differences between various racial groups is dwarfed by the differences in the human population as a whole. The most genetically distinct groups are Australian aborigines, and for lack of genetic diversity, North American aborigines. Not that any of this matters, other than to show that there's no genetic fingerprint to "black".

 

I don't think most people nowadays really want to be racist... but we have to deal with lots of nonsense we didn't start, but still reverberates today, centuries later!

That's true of most people I know. Regardless, even those of us who don't want to be racist have to be vigilant with ourselves, because we have hidden prejudices. For most of us, it's a process of constantly learning to be less racist.

 

Decades later. And frankly, it's not over at all. Plenty of racism still to go around, and that's the point. It's not a 'thing of the distant past'.

Absolutely. I was listening to stories of racism on the radio the other day. I'd missed the beginning, but I was astonished to hear that the person was talking about things that happened in the 90's, not the 60's or earlier! I shouldn't have been so surprised, really.

 

Still, as a WASP guy, I say go ahead with the WASP guy jokes. Open season. With a little good judgement, it does more good than harm. And it's funny. If you don't think so, just watch me try to dance.

[richwhite9]

I was listening to stories of racism on the radio the other day. I'd missed the beginning, but I was astonished to hear that the person was talking about things that happened in the 90's, not the 60's or earlier! I shouldn't have been so surprised, really.

 

Local radio had a great show yesterday on why there were so few Black Candidates in the Bluest State of the Nation (here in CT now that Scott Brown won in MA).

 

Wonderful refreshing stuff that ditched the 20th century mindset and logic. The talk was the need for better stategic planning and mentoring by Black and Hispanic Political groups to get good, qualified candidates out there.

 

No anger. No rancour. No 60s resentment. Simple, pointed "Here's what we need to do stuff". It's exactly what's needed. And it was coming from four Black American members of the Black & Hispanic Council citing their past leadership failures to groom a cadre of young political professionals for 2010 and instead get mired in the quicksand of racism and blame.

 

 

[Baldwin Funster]

Some (but not all) of the best musicians,composers and cultural innovators are black, Some are white. I have actually met black people that can't sing, dance or play an instrument . But maybe they weren't really black people at all but white people disguised as black. Or maybe they were jews disuised as white people pretending to be black.

 

I'm a jew, i can make this joke.

 

 

[offnote]

Disco was white people trying to play funk.

 

Rock-n-roll was white people trying to play rhythm-n-blues.

 

Pop music was white people trying to play soul.

 

So is rap black people trying to do poetry?

 

 

exactly what it is - "trying", while white people actually succeded in all three counts.