How much is too much?

[JeffLearman]

The blues band I was in played an enjoyable gig at a local venue. The deal was whatever amount of money plus dinner and drinks. The dinner was good and the service was great.

 

During a break I went to the bar and ordered a McCallan's, and pulled out my wallet to pay because I didn't expect top shelf to be part of the deal. They told me to put my money away.

 

Our harp player, who rarely makes more in a gig than he spends on liquor, was absolutely delighted!

 

[Pale]

In a bar where my band usually plays we get a full fridge of beer (in backstage), and the bar usually sends some wine/water/juice if we request so. But most of my bandmates drink beer.

 

Other places usually just open a tab for the band and everything is covered, while others give some sort of drink coupons, usually 3-4 per band member.

 

But I like the "fridge-in-backstage" the best

[Dave Pierce]

Seems like we've danced around the original question a bit, so I'll answer it directly:

 

13-14 beers between 3 guys on a gig is too much.

 

Just one man's opinion, but you asked for it.

 

--Dave

[moj]

Even if drinks are offered for "free" always tip the bartender and waitress'. It's common business practice when offered food/drinks gratis.

[MikeT156]

Quote by Kanker:

 

"My opinion, if you're being payed to perform a job, you shouldn't be drinking, getting high, whatever. Musicians wonder why they aren't taken seriously...."

 

I agree with Kevin 100%. I don't drink at my day job, why would I drink at a gig I'm being paid to perform and entertain people? I know we've all discussed this in other forms before, but the answer is the same. Don't drink when you work! As far as my "day job", I usually NEED a drink or two after my typical work week.

 

 

Mike T.

[Eric Jx]

>> 13-14 beers between 3 guys on a gig is too much.

 

Thanks for the direct answer Dave.

 

Is that how the bar owner view it? 13-14 beers between 3 band members? Or does bar owner look at it as 13-14 beers between 5 band members?

 

[Steve LeBlanc]

All the judgments on whether working musicians should drink or not are clouding this thread IMO.

 

>> 13-14 beers between 3 guys on a gig is too much.

 

over how many hours? what kind of music? how full was the club/bar? In most scenarios I can think of, this is a reasonable amount of beer if the guys are professional in their work.

 

we were shorted $50 from what we were promised, and then we were handed a $110 bill for food/drinks.

 

How much does the place charge for food/drinks? Is it a dive or nice establishment? IMO, $110 is nothing for the club to pay, they probably made that much from 2 or 3 customers in the first 2 hours. Also, the beers and food don't cost the club what they charge the customers anyway.

 

You got screwed and should demand your money back or at the very least, never play there again.

 

 

 

 

 

[JeffLearman]

A beer per hour per person isn't unreasonable. If you were there for 5 hours, then 15 beers for 3 people isn't unreasonable.

 

For most men, that wouldn't put them past the common legal driving limit of 0.08%.

 

While I respect those who say they don't drink while playing, I don't disrespect those who drink while playing. If you play well, act professionally, and if it works with your life, then why not?

 

Let me answer my own rhetorical question: for your own good. Most musicians who drink much at a gig, end up getting in the habit of drinking too much at each gig, and for most people, it's just not good for you. That's the reason to keep drinking at a gig to a minimum, IMHO.

 

Your health is more important than the ethics of drinking on the job.

[Steve LeBlanc]

Quote by Kanker:

 

"My opinion, if you're being payed to perform a job, you shouldn't be drinking, getting high, whatever. Musicians wonder why they aren't taken seriously...."

 

I agree with Kevin 100%. I don't drink at my day job, why would I drink at a gig I'm being paid to perform and entertain people?

 

 

Mike T.

 

Because it's not your day job, it's a place where people are not working and want to be entertained. If the good entertainers in town drink while doing it and everyone is fully entertained, they are doing their job correctly. If drinking effects their entertainment value in a negative way at all, they shouldn't drink. A professional adult should be able to gauge this himself unless he has a problem, if he can't, he won't work long anyway.

 

As a musician, you know as well as anyone that we don't get paid enough to do this shit and in most cities we're in short supply. So, some gigs there is no place for alcohol in the band at all, other gigs are different. Sometimes it depends on what music is being played, sometimes the audience is the factor. There aren't any hard rules, nor should there be.

[Eric Jx]

I'm sure many of you are full time musicians, and are answering from that perspective when you say "don't drink at a gig"

 

We are being paid so I guess that makes me "professional", however this band is a casual thing. We play out about 2 times a month. We do it for fun, and the money is incosequential. I don't drink at gigs because it makes Sunday morning with 5 kids all that much harder, but I would never ask my bandmates who like to drink to obstain unless it was hurting their performance.

[Eric Jx]

>>over how many hours?

 

We played from 8pm to 12:30

 

 

>>what kind of music?

 

80's rock

 

>>how full was the club/bar?

 

It was a restaurant/bar. There was maybe 50-60 people in the place. But it's a large joint, so it looked empty.

[Steve LeBlanc]

>>over how many hours?

 

We played from 8pm to 12:30

 

 

4.5 hours, + set-up and breakdown and hang time (6+ hours), seems like your guys were fairly reasonable in their drinking to me. Again, there's no way the beers/food cost the club what they charged you...if they were draft beers it cost the club even less. I'm thinking the club owner wanted some extra cash for himself and didn't want to take it from the register. He was robbing you.

[Tonysounds]

Bottom line: you were told drinks were comped, and at the end of the nite, they presented you with a bill. They bar doesnt look at it as keyboard and vocal guys had nothing to drink, the other 3 had 14 beers, they look at it as band tab=14 beers. He screwed you. When this has happened to me in the past, especially when I was much younger, bolder, and not quite as smart as I thought I was, Im not proud to say that we would exact our revenge: stiff us $100, and we would leave with a $100 of wholesale liquor. I DO NOT advise anyone to take this approach, but as I said, that was a lifetime ago, and while we were young, we were professional, until you tried to f us. You find that youll do things when youre 20 that you wouldnt dream of doing when youre 30 or more, but thats the beauty of youth.

 

As for drinking on the job, this is a gray area that needs to be addressed on a case-by-case basis. If Im playing a nice restaurant, festival or wedding, no, Im not drinking, or if I am, its a 2 drink max. If Im playing a biker bar, a rock dive, neighborhood bar or a private backyard party or something like that, I will likely partake. Its called using common sense.

 

If there is a tab for the band, the strict rule is no tab: everyone ponies up for their own drinks. Youll be surprised at how little alcohol will get consumed on a gig if youre paying for them. I dont like the idea of the band taking care of a drink tab when with 5 guys on different work schedules, and some are drinking, some are not, some are teetotalers, etc. I recently had an experience with a club where they offer the band free draft beer. None of us will drink domestic draft beer even if its free. Normally, no problem, everyone just buy what they want. But in this instance, I had talked to the club 2 days previously, and on the day of the gig, and we were to supply PA for the gig, and as it was the first time in, we went in for a low guarantee. We bring the PA into the club to find that they had installed one that day. (And I had talked to the owner that day and he never said a word.) So now the owner is crying poor and wants to knock $100 off our guarantee since he supplied PA. And Im telling him you didnt inform me of this today, and youre saving us no work because we actually had to go haul the system up a flight of stairs to get it in the truck, and take it back down tonite. And were sort of at an impasse. And he throws the free draft beer at us, and I told him that my wife and kids cant buy food with your draft beer, and at our age, none of us drinking draft beer anyway. So to compromise, he gave us a bar tab. End of the nite, hes paid us, all is good, were packed up, hes booked a couple more shows with a better guarantee, and then his bar manager brings him a receipt and he flips: You guys had a $150 bar tab! And I looked at the other guys (Id had 3 drinks total, and the bassist doesnt drink), and they shrugged I dont know. I ask him what was on the tab, and he tells me theres like $90 in shots of Patron. I started laughing, and told him I couldnt have been more surprised if he said wed drank $90 in wheatgrass juice, because nobody in the band drinks tequila.or wheatgrass juice! Then it turns out my guitarist steps up and says he ordered a few doubles. We all just looked at him: are you fn kidding me? Hes buying drinks as good will. Short story long, owner waived the tab and said its back to draft beer, and wouldnt accept payment for the tab, so we threw an extra $20 in the jar.

 

Damn guitar players!

 

[Mr. Nightime]

Most of the gigs that I play give the band members soft drinks for free, and a discount on food and drink, usually around 10% to 25%. The clubs that do include alcohol will indicate the specifics - Draft beer and well drinks only, so many free then you pay for the rest, that type of thing. Plus, we'll run our own individual tabs at the bar, so someone that doesn't drink doesn't have to pay for the lush. (We have neither teetotaller nor lush in this band).

 

Last gig I had probably 6 beers and 3 shots over the course of a 4 hour gig, including a shot and a beer after the gig. I was there probably 6 hours. Not unreasonable for me, tab was $25 including tip. So, $160 was very excessive.

 

 

 

[kanker.]

We do it for fun, and the money is incosequential.

If the money is inconsequential then why are you worried?

 

Two more reasons why musicians aren't taken seriously...

[iLaw]

One peripheral aspect of being a band leader is dealing with the impact of recreational chemicals (from alcohol to heroin) on the lives and abilities of the musicians you work with. Over the years I've learned that while I cannot control what musicians put into themselves (or how much or when), I'd be a fool to negotiate with bar owners to get paid in chemicals.

 

Larry.

 

[MikeT156]

Quote by Steve LeBlanc:

 

"Because it's not your day job, it's a place where people are not working and want to be entertained. If the good entertainers in town drink while doing it and everyone is fully entertained, they are doing their job correctly. If drinking effects their entertainment value in a negative way at all, they shouldn't drink. A professional adult should be able to gauge this himself unless he has a problem, if he can't, he won't work long anyway.

 

As a musician, you know as well as anyone that we don't get paid enough to do this shit and in most cities we're in short supply. So, some gigs there is no place for alcohol in the band at all, other gigs are different. Sometimes it depends on what music is being played, sometimes the audience is the factor. There aren't any hard rules, nor should there be."

 

Steve, my point is, its still a JOB for PAY. The audience is there to be relaxed and entertained, not me. You can drink if you want too, I say its unprofessional. However, if a musician can handle a drink or 2 or 3 and it doesn't hurt his/her performance, fine. But its been my experience that if the first drink doesn't affect you, the second one does. Impairment begins at the first drink. Ask any Alcohol Counselor, or better yet, a COP.

 

Mike T.

[clpete]

Drinking on the job may sound unprofessional. But it may be part of the show while playing in bar bands where the clubs make their money from alcohol sales. When the MC of the band makes a toast and gets the crowd drinking, every toast makes the club money. I have a friend that does this at least 8 to 10 times a night. (He doesnt have booze in the shot glass most of the time.) Getting the crowd to party and buy drinks is why the band is there. It;s not always the soberest or best musical band that rings the till. The bottom line is sales.

 

Over the years Ive played at places that have given the band unlimited drinks or free food. Ive also played at clubs that gave the band nothing. The one thing I always do is asked the bartender or server what the deal is with food and drinks before I order anything. The persons booking, paying the band or pouring the drinks may all have a different understanding about whats free.

 

Miscommunication or misunderstandings are usually the reason these problems arise at gigs. Ive been at gigs where someone in the band told us we would get free drinks, but when I asked the bartender they said no. I booked a job where the guy told me we would get free food. When we got to the gig the club had hired an outside vendor for food that night and they were not going to give it to anyone free. I was upset, but free food or drinks I consider a bonus. Except, I did once book a small bar and our only pay was food and beer.

 

[Eric Jx]

Kanker,

 

What I mean by the money being incosequential is this: I never expect to earn as a musician anywhere near the money I make at my day job. I'm not relying on this money to feed my kids. I don't expect the money to ever cover what we've shelled out for practice studio time and the money I've spent so far for equipment.

 

I care because there is a little principle called fairness. I'd like to be fair to the venue owners, and I'd like them to be fair to us. Our first gig we did for free. It was on a Thursday night. At the end of the night, I asked the bartender how she did at the register. She said on a typical Thursday they would do about $400. By the time I left she was at $1500 and there were still plenty of people in the bar. So by my counting the bar owner made an extra $1100 from people that WE BROUGHT TO THE VENUE. Simply put, if we are directly responsible for bringing in more revenue, then we should be compensated for that. It doesn't matter if I, personally need the money or not. Anything else is exploitation.

 

 

Not every member in the band is on firm financial footing. The guitar player was laid off from his day job a few months ago and is out of work. The draw from our gigs isn't much, but it helps when nothing else is coming in.

 

[clpete]

Most of the musicians I play with do not do it for the money. It doesn't mean that we aren't serious about getting paid. We are. The money is very important as far as justifying the equipment, time and other expenses. We do it for fun, but the money allows us to do it. As I say we get paid to set up.

[J. Dan]

You are going to find that every place is different depending on the management and the experiences they've had with bands. Most of the policies we've come across have been developed because of bands that drink way too much.

 

At one place, we always got 18 beers (for 5 of us) at the beginning of the night and put it on stage. Our contract had a $50 tab included (as it did for all the bands that played there - it was their standard contract). So one night at the end of the night they hit us with like a $38 bill or something. We argued about it, and as it turns out, they said they raised their drink prices and $18 beers was more than $50 now, plus the drummer bought a sandwich, and so it ended up adding tax to all the beers, and they said that the guitar player bought some shots. Well the guitar player doesn't drink - at all. And here's the kicker - the entire tab was rung up as 24 beers or something like that - no food, no shots. They said they just rang it up that way but that the amount was correct. After a lot of arguing, calculators, etc., we got them to take off the tax (by putting the sandwich on another check), and drop the shots (we concluded that somebody else must have ordered on the "band tab"). So we paid for the sandwich and left.

 

After that, the agent that works with the club was working to rewrite the contracts and talked to all the bands about what they want. They ended up settling on your choice of either 24 beers or a $50 tab. So we started taking the 24 beers at the beginning of the night and telling them close the band tab - nobody else is to put anything on it. We don't drink 24 beers, but they're ours - that's part of our payment, other bands get them. We drink what we want and give the rest away to fans. We do tip well also.

 

Casinos give out comps to the band members - usually (2) $15 comps per member. You can't drink playing at the casinos because of Missouri Gaming law, so we use them for food. But they have a refrigerator backstage with all the water and soda you want.

 

Some places have a green room with a fridge with all the beer you want - same with some of the festivals we play. But our contracts usually specify a cooler with water and gatorate near the stage at a festival. If they throw in beer, it's out of the goodness of their hearts.

 

Other places just do 1/2 price on whatever and we split the tab at the end of the night - usually no more than $30-$40, but has been as much as $60.

 

Just know what the deal is and make your plans around it. If it's something specific - get it in writing. Tip well, and make sure the bartenders and manager know who is authorized to buy on the "band tab".

[Ian Benhamou]

After working in the restaurant business for 10 years I could tell you that sometimes bartenders or waiters may put stuff on your bill even if you didn't order it. What a bartender will typically do is offer a round of shots to his/her good customers at the bar in order to get them to stay and to tip more generously but those shots need to be accounted for, so they punch them in on the band tab thinking its going to get comped anyway. But when the manager sees the bill at the end of the night their reaction is that the band is taking advantage of their privileges. I've seen it happen more than a few times to my band. And when I was a manager in restaurants, I caught a few employees doing this, but it was very difficult to incriminate them because it's all based on hearsay and suspicion, but no proof. And I hate to tell you, that back when I was a waiter I was guilty of doing it a few times myself. I'm not proud of it, but the option was there and I took advantage of the situation.

 

Bottom line: Keep a mental tab of what you and bandmembers order. Make sure it balances with what you sign for at the end of the night. When I was a manager and had say the owner of the place or a special guest who's bill was to be comped at the end of the night I would always make them sign the bill to verify that everything on there was accounted for before voiding the sales.

 

The other major problem you all should have with being charged for food and beverage is when you get charged regular price. That means the establishment is making profit of your consumption. They should always at least give you 20% off.

[J. Dan]

I think this may have happened in our case.

 

The other story I did not share with you from the same place that resulted in us getting everything and closing the tab at the beginning of the night was as follows:

 

We got 18 beers at the beginning of the night and were charged for 24 (sound familiar). We told them we only got 18, and they said they gave us 24. We counted the empty beer bottles plus the several full ones still left on stage and there were 18 total. They said they must have picked up the empties. Me, the drummer, and the bass player were the only ones who drank beer, and we set our empties either back in the bucket or along the back wall. The waitresses would have had to go up the steps, behind our equipment, and picked up the empties. And bouncers stand in front of the stage during breaks. We ended up getting that comped - but I think the waitress gave 6 free beers to somebody. I think a lot of bands drink so much and don't keep track of it, so that they don't notice all the extra stuff on their tab. We're not heavy drinkers and only drink beer - so it sticks out like a sore thumb when there's extra stuff. But the waitresses probably don't know this and just figure we won't catch it.

 

I started hearing other stories from other bands and had to write up in detail our stories for the agent that booked that room. I think they were internally investigating some of this behaviour. Incidentally, there has been new management in that location and I haven't had a single problem since then. In fact, we've had admitedly some extra stuff on our tab recently that we were ready to pay for and they comped it.

[SK]

It's kind of hard to say how much is "too much". Since I don't drink, 2 beers and the night would be over.

 

I'm against anything that gets in the way of the music or the job.

 

In a perfect world, I'd say no drinking on a gig, but that's not going to happen with everybody. So realistically, whatever doesn't get in the way of the music, the job, or the management, is the way to go.

 

I don't monitor the musicians' drinking or babysit them - but if intake of any substance affects the music, they aren't rehired. And if there's any problem with the music or the management over drinks, it's fairly safe to assume it was "too much."

 

Past x number of free drinks, I'd have a running tab for all drinking musicians, and not trust a bartender or management to tally the correct amount.

[Jerry Huber]

My experience in smaller clubs has mostly been being comped one drink per break per man. So a four man band on a four hour job (three breaks) would get 12 drinks, doesn't matter if they're beer or liquor. Pop and coffee is almost always free but food varies. The animal clubs (Moose, Elks, etc.) often charge the band half price for alcohol. Bringing anything into club for consumption, including bottles of water, is forbidden by Michigan state law. We have been asked to promote alcohol buying by drinking shots on stage, to get the party going. We would be given tea because we could not function if we drank as much as they gave us. We have also been told not to drink pop or coffee on stage because it doesn't encourage the audience to drink alcohol and that is where the money comes from.

[BillWelcome Home Studios]

Seems like we've danced around the original question a bit, so I'll answer it directly:

 

13-14 beers between 3 guys on a gig is too much.

 

Just one man's opinion, but you asked for it.

 

--Dave

 

Doesn't matter... comped is comped. 1 beer, 100 beers, comped is comped.

 

 

Bill

[SK]

Doesn't matter... comped is comped. 1 beer, 100 beers, comped is comped.

True, comped is comped - a deal's a deal. I'm just sayin' from a practical side, if there's no such thing as "too much"...then book an all alcoholic band into an "all you can eat" buffet.

 

At least there'll be a few fun nights before the establishment locks its doors.

 

 

[MikeT156]

Running a tab for the band causes unnecessary complications for both the band and the owner. If at the end of the night, you check your tab and see drinks on the tab that you don't believe were bought by the band, questioning the staff or management is not looked upon in a positive light by their people. They can feel that you questioning their integrity or ability to count.

 

But the integrity of individuals working in the bar business is going to vary from venue to venue. I never ran a tab or bought alcohol since I started doing a solo act over 30 years ago, can't handle it so I don't do it. But I had "managers" skim money off the top of the door cover charge and pocket the money back when I was playing for the door. So I know there are thieves in the business. I would recommend that you establish the way the club handles food and drinks for the band and tell your band to pay cash for everything. No tab, no argument. If you play for the door, bring someone to collect the money for you. If not, you are subject to the door man's honesty. Good luck with that, he is probably getting shit money for doing it too.

 

Mike T.

[ProfD]

If there is a band tab, the band manager should be keeping track of it in addition to other responsibilities. That goes for bandmember/manager types too.

 

At some point, every band knows the offending lush and/or greedy muso(s). Adjust accordingly.

 

Otherwise, moderation is the key. Especially since the objective should be to play great music and get paid.

[Mr. Nightime]

All of the clubs that I play now have computerized cash registers. They put your name in when you run a tab, and present you with a receipt at the end of the night. Eliminates any question on the amount.