New Roland V-Piano

[DNAUYTIC]

The Roland site has audio demos now that I hadn't heard. They seem to be the best recording possible.

 

I still hear the same issues - lack of authentic piano mid range and wood type warmth, but I can also tell that it has it's own kind of beauty and presence.

 

Still totally perplexed, I hope to try it tomorrow.

 

SK, the songs on the site are songs that come as demos in the V. The V allows you to choose these same songs and play them.

 

What I have done is to download one of them onto my computer. I will then place it onto my IPod and I'll be able to compare them because I have my iPod hooked up to the same mixing board my V is hooked up to. So, after this is done, I'll at least be able to tell you whether the songs you are listening to sound exactly the same (to my ear, anyway) as the songs that the V plays, using the same board and the same speakers.

 

What this won't tell you, for sure, is whether the V is simply playing these exact same files or whether it is using a file format that allows them to process the file through the V exactly as one would when playing it. So, even if I do this, it ain't a guarantee that what you hear is what you get.

 

And I can say for sure that when I listen to these files directly off the Internet, they lack the warmth you are referring to...and some other traits as well. They sound "plasticky" to me, but I'm running them through a much weaker speeaker system than I run my V through (though it is a speaker system attached to a desktop and not nearly as bad as a laptop's internal speakers).

[SK]

Well that's that... I was headed out to Guitar Center to check the V. The other day, a guy there told me on the phone I could demo it, so I called to make sure it would be set up with 4 speakers before I left.

 

I was informed by the manager that the sales guy was "wrong", they don't have it. I called the other stores in the area (Sam Ash, etc.) and no one does. So I'll only hear it if I go to D.C or maybe Va. Beach, more than 2 hrs. away.

 

Thanks for the impressions, DNAUYTIC. I'm sure at some point I'll demo it.

 

So Floyd, what happened - did you go to that V demo?

[Song80s]

I got invited to a "V.I.P Launch Event" for the V-Piano tonight. If I go, I'll report back. The pdf that came with it says that it's the "biggest advancement in 300 years of the evolution of the piano".

 

I'm fascinated by this whole marketing exercise.

 

 

roland= marketing machine on steroids

[DNAUYTIC]

Well that's that... I was headed out to Guitar Center to check the V. The other day, a guy there told me on the phone I could demo it, so I called to make sure it would be set up with 4 speakers before I left.

 

I was informed by the manager that the sales guy was "wrong", they don't have it. I called the other stores in the area (Sam Ash, etc.) and no one does. So I'll only hear it if I go to D.C or maybe Va. Beach, more than 2 hrs. away.

 

Thanks for the impressions, DNAUYTIC. I'm sure at some point I'll demo it.

 

So Floyd, what happened - did you go to that V demo?

 

That's a bummer, SK; I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Damn. If you were in the Boston area I'd invite you over.

[Floyd Tatum]

Floyd, what happened - did you go to that V demo?

 

No, but I did go to a music store tonight, just got back. I spent a few hours demoing various new and old keyboards: a VPiano, a new Rhodes, a Hammond XK3c, a Nord Electro 3, Stage, and C1, a Yamaha P155, P85, CP300, and N30, a Roland FP4, a Kurzweil PC3x, I think that was it.

 

The V-Piano is pretty nice, but I wasn't blown away. It's got a keyboard like the FP7, I think (although I didn't A/B it to an FP7, just going on memory). That is, I felt it bottoming out a bit. I expected it to be really expressive, i.e., responsive to velocity, and of course it is in terms of volume, but I didn't find the tone changed in respond to velocity as much as I expected. It doesn't sound exactly like a piano, but close. It's got a nice sound. I don't know, I haven't really decided yet. I'd like to play it a few more times before I make up my mind, those are just my first impressions. It certainly feels like a quality keyboard. But, if I needed a heavy dp with a flat top for writing charts, and I do, I think I'd probably go for the CP300. In a way, I'd rather not say anything negative about it, because it's not fair based on a half hour of playing. I wish I could play a gig with it, that would be a fair test. On the other hand, if you don't fall in love with an instrument right away, then maybe it's not for you. I tend to follow that philosophy in general. I've found that keyboards that I've really liked over the years, they've usually grabbed me right away.

 

I agree with DNAYUTIC's point that it takes time to acclimate to a new sound. That's why I say I want to hear it a few more times before making up my mind completely.

 

I enjoyed the new Rhodes a lot, it sounds and plays great, better than any Rhodes I ever played. I played the Stage 73 version. At least, I think it was a 73. Come to think of it, the keyboard seemed short, maybe it was one of those 61-key ones. I was trying out so many keyboards I didn't have too much time to check details. Hmmm. I'll need to play it again through a different amp or headphones. It's difficult to play Rhodes through phones, it doesn't have a headphone out, at least, not the one I played.

 

I'm thinking of getting some kind of B3-type organ, and learning how to play it, so I checked out a few organs, haven't decided yet. The XK3c sounded great and the internal leslie sounded good, better than I expected, although I couldn't figure out how to make my way around it, so I didn't get nearly as much out of it as I could have. I need to read the manual a bit, then go back and try it again. Plus with the XK3c, you've got the option to build a full portable "XK System", so that's something to consider. I also played the C1, which sounded great, and is easy to figure out. I think I could probably get used to the drawbarlights.

 

I played the FP4, and liked it. I rented one once before for a month, but didn't end up buying it. It's tempting though.

 

I ended up taking home a Yamaha P85 on rental for a month. If I like it, I'll buy it. It sounds great, weighs 25.5 lbs, feels quite good, considering the weight, and has a decent rhodes patch. I'm hoping it might become my gigging piano. I'll see how that goes.

 

 

[SK]

Thanks Floyd. I'm considering getting an extra DP too. Do you like that p85 better than the FP4? I heard one professional demo of it that really sounded quite good.

 

But here's another one where the piano bottom has convincing highs, but the upper level has weak lows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNg1ULZ8hkk&feature=related

 

That's a bummer, SK; I was looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

Damn. If you were in the Boston area I'd invite you over.

Thanks. If I still lived in Brookline, I'd take you up on it.

[Floyd Tatum]

But here's another one where the piano bottom has convincing highs, but the upper level has weak lows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNg1ULZ8hkk&feature=related

 

Joe Z would have dug that!

 

 

I don't know if I like it better than the FP4, but I'm going to try it out for a month. I liked the way it sounded in the store through headphones, it weighs 25.5 lbs, and it costs quite a bit less than the FP4, too. It's lacking a few features, I'll see if I can live with that.

 

[DNAUYTIC]

Hey SK,

 

I'm curious as to what you think of the sound here:

 

 

I realize it's not uber high quality, but I'm interested in hearing your thoughts, anyway.

[Floyd Tatum]

Oh, and by the way, Steve, I don't agree about the need to listen through 4 speakers, or even 2. Sure, listening through speakers (2 or 4) would be (is) fun, and sounds good. But, I say, listen the same way you normally do to other dp's. For me, that's through headphones. I find I can concentrate on the tone of it without any distraction, and in a music store, that's important. At the store I went to, they had the VPiano set up with two decent nearfields, the only dp that got that treatment. I think it's probably part of Roland's marketing strategy to distinguish themselves from other brands, and perhaps to discourage you from listening to the tone too closely.

 

I plugged in phones, they tried to discourage me from it, so I listened thru the speakers for a minute until the sales guy wandered off, then plugged them back in, I found I could hear the tone more clearly. And, that's how I listened to everything else, so it's easier to compare.

 

[SK]

Thank you for posting that link, Dnauytic. I'll give my impressions in just a second...

 

Floyd, yeah you're right, thanks - I always use headphones to check new keyboards. It's the fastest way to see what the basic sound is that you'll have to work with, and sometimes the only way to hear it in a noisy music store.

 

But in addition, I wanted to hear the way Roland thinks it 'should be heard' as a representation of a virtual acoustic. There are rare cases, like with the AccuGrooves and my new setup, where cabinet resonance can make the piano sound a little more authentic. My FP4 sounds better live than it does on the Reharm Room recordings (which always bug me), because live resonance slightly masks that synthetic, direct digital sound.

 

And let me know how that P85 works out.

------

OK DNAUYTIC, that's a good recording and I checked it in HD too, in case the audio was any better.

 

I have to say I haven't had any major revelations about the sound. I think it's a beautiful instrument, and I can fully see why you're happy with it. Apparently I won't know for sure for myself until I play it live.

 

I can tell it plays great. It's clearly responsive. The overall sonority is full, clear, and very appealing. The upper third of the keyboard sounds excellent and true to piano to my ears. Very bright, clean and clear - and pianolike.

 

Everything else is subjective, as my whole interest is in how authentic it sounds to piano, not how beautiful it sounds otherwise. I am still hearing a core sound in the middle to lower end that doesn't register as piano to me. Its a slightly distant, hollow tone I've noticed in every demo, and only a live listening experience with proper resonance might override it. That's why I still can't say until I play it.

 

If it requires suspending belief in it being a piano and accepting it as its own instrument, I may be able to do that. But the upper keyboard frequencies are so realistic, it may sound to me like I'm playing two different instruments at once.

 

So that's my honest non-opinion, and I hope I can give a real one soon. In the meantime, I'm very impressed with it for the obvious innovation, quality and effort that has gone into it. I still hope playing it live will bear out all my expectations. When I'm lucky enough to test one out, I'll post my thoughts.

 

 

 

[DNAUYTIC]

SK and Floyd, I understand where you are coming from in regards to demoing something with headphones in a noise-filled music store. I certainly can't disagree with you there. All I'm trying to say is that if you do demo it, you should hook up to four monitors as well because that is what this instrument was designed for (like it or not). I've got decent headphones (Beyerdynamic DT 770) and without question I don't enjoy the sound nearly as much as I do when I have it coming over my Dynaudios. Since that's the case, I guess I'd like to see you try it in a similar environment, that's all.

 

And SK, I understand your thoughts about it in regards to authentic piano sound. I posted that link because those particular sets of videos seem to better capture its essence, in relation to other audio clips on the Internet. The sound you hear on them still ain't what I'm hearing over here, mind you, but it's closer and in particular it seems closer in the mid range.

 

And I'm glad to hear you point out the difference between authentic piano sound, which is what you're interested in, and a beautiful sound. Perhaps for me the line between the two is more blurry, I'm not sure...all I know is I really enjoy the V's sound and its playability.

 

Hopefully you'll get a chance to play it soon.

[Dave Horne]

I just came from a music store and played the V Piano for about 10 minutes. I only played a few of the presets and spent no time in the menu; I didn't have any extra time.

 

I liked the tactile feeling of the keys themselves, but was not knocked out by the actual keyboard action. The keyboard action felt a little like a small grand action with a good dose of electric keyboard action. I would certainly be happy to play jobs on that keyboard but wouldn't want to have it as my practice piano. For my taste, the keyboard action was a little too light and there was some bounce.

 

Like I said, I only spent 10 minutes playing it and while I liked the main keyboard sound (patch 1?), I was not knocked out by the overall keyboard package. I did use headphones (the store's) and did also listen through a very good sound system as well (the name I forget).

 

It's seems like a lot of money for a one trick pony.

[MikeT156]

by Dave Horne:

 

It's seems like a lot of money for a one trick pony

 

Yep, but be cautious of the term "one trick pony"

 

Certain people get upset with this terminology when applied to the NEW RHODES Piano, for some odd reason.

 

Good to see you back on our Forum Dave. This place is NOT the same without you.

 

 

Mike T.

[Dave Ferris]

I thought I'd resurrect this old warhorse again.

 

A friend who's a very fine pianist that I had not spoke to in awhile just bought one and is thrilled with it. He sent me a recording (which he didn't want me to post) that sounds pretty darn good. He ran the V into a UA LA610 tube pre and the Apogee Rosetta A/D converter. Very nice.

 

I played this once or twice in the stores and then briefly at NAMM again with some phones. I haven't been has knocked out with it from a playing perspective has I was the Avant Grand. I'm thinking for home recording the Roland's sound might be better captured where the whole Avant vibe is coming from the sound system built into the instrument.

 

Anyone been playing this lately with some new opinions? This might be old news now with the arrival of the CP-1. Though after hearing my friend's recording tonight, the V has my interest again although "underwhelmed" would be a good description of my experience with it...maybe I'm missing something in the menu. Now that it's been out awhile, I wonder if it can be had for 4K or under? My friend payed way too much, he's not a shopper.

 

Whatever happened to DNAUYTIC ? He disappeared after 20 or so posts raving about the V.

[SK]

Could be - makes sense. All the Rolands I've had could be tweaked/improved beyond the default. I'm sure it's a great keyboard, and the tube pre and converter might give it just what it needs.

[.......]

38 kg, thats the thing that puts me off. What is the point of something that sounds a little like a real piano when you can't take on gig because its too heavy? For the 5000 euros it costs over here I could buy a real grand piano.

Sorry to rant but it just winds me up that it is so absurdly heavy. I do not believe its necessary for it to be that weight.

[Joe Muscara]

1. I was talking to a keyboard player I know yesterday and he said he liked the V better than the new CP1.

 

2. I was watching the last Tonight Show with Conan last night, and during the final song, Scott Healy was playing a V-Piano. Since they were trying to spend NBC money, I wondered if Healy got the V-Piano out of the deal! Maybe Fortner can ask him.

[kanker.]

I had a chance to revisit the V-Piano over the holidays. Still blown away buy it, still need to get some time with it and the computer editor to see if I can get rid of the odd tone above middle C completely. I left the model they had on the floor in mono - I wonder how ling it will take for anyone to notice

[Melodialworks]

I had a chance to revisit the V-Piano over the holidays. Still blown away buy it, still need to get some time with it and the computer editor to see if I can get rid of the odd tone above middle C completely. I left the model they had on the floor in mono - I wonder how ling it will take for anyone to notice

 

The four additional TONES (patches) that the V-Piano Evolution update added do improve the hollow / synthetic mids, but they are still not right. (The update did not correct any of the existing 24 tones). Very frustrating.

 

I would notice how you had left the V-Piano in the store, since the first thing I always do when trying out a board in a store is to do a factory reset.

 

Having said that, I was recently at a store with a fairly large keyboard department, and they had ALL of the keyboards connected with only one audio channel, and (at least the keyboards I played) were all set for stereo output! D'oh! (Luckily I also always take cans with me, as well . . . )

[Dave Ferris]

A fellow on GS sent me this. The Vintage 2 patch going out of the V Piano's digital output into Logic where he did a tad of processing.

 

http://www.divshare.com/download/10268936-8dd

[Dave Ferris]

After listening to 5 different examples he sent me on Vintage Piano #1 & #2, I definitely prefer the sound of #2---warmer and darker sounding. This is really a nice sounding DP, I'm going to have to bring some Classical music into the store and see how the action responds.

[Aidan]

Very pretty clip, Dave - if the new expansion card can bring my GX anywhere near that I'll be buying!

[Dave Ferris]

Spent about an hour today on the V at W. LA. Music in Universal City. (with both my phones-- AKG K240s, and store monitors: M-Audio somethings, but they didn't sound half bad)

 

As impressive as this sounds on tape, the connection still isn't there for me as an instrument. Especially at that price. I still struggle like I do on any other DP I've ever played.

I get home, whip out some of the Classical music I brought to store, (Ravel, Bach, Chopin) go right over to my '97 Yamaha GT-1 Gran Touch and instantly, I'm happier. Maybe it's the grand piano action of the GT-1. I go out to the studio, sit down at the D and think, "what am I doing wasting my time even considering this" ?

 

To be fair, I think where the V really excels are the more chordal, legato type shapes/passages/styles as opposed to single note Jazz runs. For a Classical player, (like my friend) I could see this being preferable to futzing with mics and trying to get a good recorded sound with a crappy piano. For Jazz styles, at least mine, even after playing with the hammer and resonance parameters, I couldn't get the thing to speak like I wanted. To break it up and give my ears and hands a different reference, I took a short break and found a FP-7 in the corner. I sat down, played a chorus on Rhythm changes and right away felt more fluent with the "Superior Grand #2" sound coming out of the internal speakers.

 

I have this dough from the sale of my Cranesong Spider burning a hole in my pocket. I should probably do the smart thing and just put it back into the bank for the time being.

 

Although it didn't help matters when one of the very few Jazz guys on Gearslutz sent me some recordings of a live concert he made of his group with the Metric Halo ULN-8. They had the great pianist, Geoff Keezer sitting in with them for a night and the piano recording in addition to the entire group sound was stellar! That's one bad ass, amazing one rack space box!

[kanker.]

I tell ya, the first thing you have to do with the V-Piano is shrink the image. It's too wide and it really affects the tone significantly. Even if you don't collapse it to mono, at 50% width the tone is 10 times better than it is at the default setting. Wether or not that would make a huge difference to you is something else entirely.

[gangsu]