Led Zeppelin in a few hours....

[NoahZark]

P.S. From some of the other clips I saw on Youtube, it's pretty clear that they lowered the keys of some songs (presumably to accommodate Plant). Check out the clips of Black Dog, for example. . . .

 

Noah

[JohnH]

Lot's of clips up at Blabbermouth. The band are tuned down a whole step, I checked with a keyboard. True, Plant is in between. He really shines on Kashmir, but he was a joke on Black Dog. It's one of the highest songs in the catalog so why bother. Haven't checked all the clips out yet in their entirety:

 

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=86520

[b3keys]

Hey, Hey Mamma!

[mate stubb]

JPJ stretching out a bit on No Quarter:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipbM_9KG-yQ

 

[Sven Golly]

JPJ stretching out a bit on No Quarter:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipbM_9KG-yQ

 

Well, Warner's starting to yank'em off YouTube, so... missed it.

 

[mate stubb]

JPJ stretching out a bit on No Quarter:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipbM_9KG-yQ

 

Well, Warner's starting to yank'em off YouTube, so... missed it.

 

Wow, that's unfortunate Sven. At the end of the tune, JPJ gave his cell number into the mike and said that if Sven Golly would contact him in the next 8 hours, he would give you his Oasis.

 

I would have copied the number down but the message wasn't for me...

[Dave Ferris]

I think Plant, for his age is doing pretty damn good.

He's 60 something and is still around an G-Bb, that's still pretty f..ing high. He used to be around B-C#...not too many people in that age bracket up there. They transpose down for Winwood, Mcartney, Michael Mcdonald, Paul Simon, hell they even brought down some of the arias for Pavarotti.

 

I can see why the guitar guys are pissed....things just don't sound the same when you come down from E to D.

 

The voice is a very sensitive instrument that is affected by age, especially when you are known primarily for the extreme high range. I think everyone should cut him some slack, my hat's off to him for even giving it a shot.

[Andre Lower]

The voice is a very sensitive instrument that is affected by age, especially when you are known primarily for the extreme high range. I think everyone should cut him some slack, my hat's off to him for even giving it a shot.

 

Dave, those that bash Plant for "not quite hitting them" are obviously non-singers. The example of asking Bjorn Borg to return to the courts nowadays and pull up the same performances comes right up to my mind, but those that never tried singing "Black Dog" in their showers don't seem to realize what it takes

[zxcvbnm098]

Even in the day Plant couldn't pull off the high stuff as he did in the studio. Listen to any of the bootlegs from those shows and he really stays away from the high range. According to the sleeve notes in "How the West Was Won", he only once did the high part on "Over The Hills And Far Away" ("Many times I've loved - Many times been bitten") live like on the record.

 

I too would cut him some slack, however he was a very heavy smoker in the day, and that did him no favors in terms of preserving his range.

[JohnH]

Well I'm not knocking him for not having the voice he once had. He's lived the life so that adds to the mileage. The point I made was, Black Dog should not be in the set, because of course it's going to sound like S***!!! Coverdale doesn't do songs that are impossible (like most of Slip of the Tongue) so Plant shouldn't either. Now Kashmir was incredible!

 

John

[kad]

As an aging singer, I totally understand the age versus range thing. However, I have to agree with JohnH. It makes my skin crawl to hear a song played in the wrong key. Zeppelin has a vast well of material - why not just put together a set list of songs that are convincingly doable in the original key? Kashmir was awesome!!

[Andre Lower]

Well, most of the material is pretty damn high, though the majority features only a bunch of "tight spots". Plant's problem is that his tone was fundamental to Zep's music, and he is now a victim of the lavish use of his youthful 70's range. Just like most of the icons of that era that are still hanging on, he had not planned to be doing the same thing 30 years later...

 

[Dave Ferris]

I saw a feature on the lead singer of one of the popular rock bands from the 70's.

You guys probably know who this is.....I'm pretty sure he was the original cat, might have been Foreigner...don't know for sure, that wouldn't be my area of expertise.

 

Anyway, this guy talked about the ritual he adheres to while on the road. He doesn't drink, has never smoked. I think he said he used to party in moderation in his younger days. Now, he does the show, between sets, he doesn't speak with anyone...resting his voice, he sips on the hot tea w/ lemon (the singers ultimate drink), makes sure he gets plenty of sleep, takes a nap after the afternoon soundcheck. Basically, this cat is doing all the RIGHT things to preserve and protect his instrument. He wasn't a kid either..looked to be around my age..early fifties.

They had some footage of him singing....burning...voice still clear, resonant in the high register where most of these kind of guys sing. I thought ...here's a dedicated cat who's still doing it very well, maybe he's even at the top of his game. Even though that style of music isn't exactly my thing, I found him very inspirational.

 

Sounds like Robert Planet (as Zappa used to say) could have taken a few lifestyle lessons from this guy.

[Dave Ferris]

As far as taking things down...I've heard Mcartney do Hey Jude in both E and Eb down from F. Winwood brought Gimme Some Lovin' down to to D from E...still high, he's hangin' on those A's on the verse.

I think Stevie brought Sir Duke down to the user friendly key of Bb from B and I Wish to Dm from Ebm. Mike brought down, What a Fool Believes at least a 1/2 step and has the help of the female vocalist singing unison on the high notes to fatten things up live. Same w/ Donald Fagen.

I heard Paul Simon do Still crazy in F down from G.

On the other side of the coin...I hear Kenny Loggins still does a lot of his songs in the original key and still nails them...he's a pretty amazing singer.

 

With guitar bands, it is different...D doesn't have same open sound that E does. C sounds dull after playing it in D.

F is a jazz/RnB key, not a rocker key like G or A.

[Tonysounds]

The problem with Plant was he couldn't sing those songs live in the 70s either. There was a short window ('70-72) where he was hitting them, but most of the time, those were NOT vocal friendly songs. I have live recordings from their whole history, and the proof is there. They were great records, but not too great to perform. Anyone who's ever tried to put some Zeppelin together knows how impossible this is for singers.

 

Singing this stuff probably blew his voice out on those first two tours.

 

The voice is a pretty resilient instrument, but one of the casualties is definitely Ian Anderson. I saw him two tours (and 4/5 years) ago, and the voice was in pretty rough shape; when I saw him last month, it was pretty obvious that voice isn't coming back. But his instrumental prowess has actually even improved if you can believe that.

[David Loving]

I think these guys are the only band I'd pay big money to go see.

[Floyd Tatum]

It doesn't bother me if they choose lower keys. If it sounds good, who cares what key it's in? Whatever works. Robert should just find a new, different way to sing those songs. I would rather hear them done a new way than exactly like the original.

 

[Gismo Recording]

Winwood brought Gimme Some Lovin' down to to D from E...still high,

I saw a Winwood concert on TV back in the early 90's where he played Gimme Some Lovin' in F#.

[NoahZark]

It doesn't bother me if they choose lower keys. If it sounds good, who cares what key it's in?

 

Well, I do. I certainly don't consider myself as having perfect pitch, but I guess I've just heard those songs so damn many times that it kind of grates on me when I hear them played in a different key. As a singer, I certainly understand losing some range with age (and it happened to me despite not living a hard-drinking, hard-smoking life), but I would much rather hear Plant simply change the melody on some of those tunes to avoid the high notes than hear the songs played in lower keys where, at least to my ears, it just doesn't sound right.

 

By the way, don't get me wrong: I would still pay big money to see Zeppelin live regardless of which key they're playing their songs in. It's not everyday you get to see the greatest hard rock band in history play some of the greatest rock songs (period) in history, and, if they plan a full tour and get anywhere near the DC area, I'll definitely make every effort to get there!

 

Noah

[Jode]

Lifestyle may have something to do with it, but it doesn't apply equally. Freddie Mercury and Steven Tyler are two frontmen who could take anyone to party school, but didn't seem to lose a cent's worth of their high range late in their careers. Tyler, even in his fifties, can still hit his trademark "ki-ki-ki-ki-kow!" riff like he did in 1975.

 

As for our favorite golden god: I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I distinctly heard Robert Plant nail the high note in "Kashmir", hard, at 2:04 in the video I saw. It literally brought tears to my eyes. If he needs to do "Black Dog" down a step to save his mojo for a moment like that, I say it's a more than fair trade.

 

Someone get Jack Black on the phone. It's time for the rock world to genuflect to Led Zeppelin and seriously grovel for a tour.

[tarkus]

Lifestyle may have something to do with it, but it doesn't apply equally. Freddie Mercury and Steven Tyler are two frontmen who could take anyone to party school, but didn't seem to lose a cent's worth of their high range late in their careers. Tyler, even in his fifties, can still hit his trademark "ki-ki-ki-ki-kow!" riff like he did in 1975.

 

As for our favorite golden god: I don't know about the rest of y'all, but I distinctly heard Robert Plant nail the high note in "Kashmir", hard, at 2:04 in the video I saw. It literally brought tears to my eyes. If he needs to do "Black Dog" down a step to save his mojo for a moment like that, I say it's a more than fair trade.

 

Someone get Jack Black on the phone. It's time for the rock world to genuflect to Led Zeppelin and seriously grovel for a tour.

[kanker.]

Winwood brought Gimme Some Lovin' down to to D from E...still high,

I saw a Winwood concert on TV back in the early 90's where he played Gimme Some Lovin' in F#.

It was originally in G

[Dave Ferris]

Sorry about that...you're right.....I was thinking about the melody

on the verse which hangs out on a B...it's actually the third where I was thinking of it has the fifth...thus E. Also, I think I was used to doing it in E...seems that's the key everyone would call on gigs.

So coming down for him would be F# or F. I think I saw him in F on a show w/ the other Stevie.

 

It's still high even in F.

[Dana.]

A perfect example of a singer who can still hit the high notes is Geddy Lee. I saw Rush this past summer and he sounded amazing. They haven't lost it a bit.

[Andre Lower]

A perfect example of a singer who can still hit the high notes is Geddy Lee. I saw Rush this past summer and he sounded amazing. They haven't lost it a bit.

 

I saw the Rush show as well, and yes he has lost quite a bit of range. However he makes up for it with the extraordinary improvement of his articulation and inflexion, making more use of the central register of his voice. Let's translate this into an example: He sang "Circumstances" in the original key, but did so with smart curbing of the tight spots plus improved inflexions. Instead of dropping a full octave for the whole song and getting done with it, Geddy squeezed just enough one-note punchs in the original pitch to make the song recognizable, whereas the 70s original had that eyes-popping ostinatto in the chorus that his age would not allow him to pull out today .

 

It's interesting to observe that although the older material has more vocal punch, his voice shines much more on the post-Grace Under Pressure songs. All in all, a solid example of vocal wisdom. Rush has handled aging very well.

[Blue JC]

To me, the appeal of Led Zeppelin has always been that Page and Plant could stand out front, go for it and take musical chances on every single show because they have a rock-solid rhythm section behind them.

 

I know a lot of guitarists who think that Jimmy Page is the sloppiest guitar player of all time and singers who think the same of Robert Plant.

 

I admire both of them because they have never been afraid to take chances on stage. Some work and some don't. But when it works, it is amazing.

[Tonysounds]

I'm sorry, but griping about keys is just...(insert your favorite derogatory adjective here).

 

Plant could never hit those things in their original keys, and most of the time, just rewrote the melody onstage, to varying degrees of "success", mostly to the point where you listen and go "WTF is he singing?" (And yes, I've got dozens of bootlegs to prove it.) You would not want to hear most of those "changed the melodies". I'd rather hear the melody of those songs, even in a different key, then his bastardized "interpolations". Yes, it may change the tonality of some songs (but I bet a few you wouldn't notice), but better to sound musical, than to sound unsuccessful.

 

Geddy's voice definitely sounds better on 80s and beyond material than his shriek of the 70s (and yes, I'm a huge fan, have seen them over 30x).

 

 

[KenElevenShadows]

It doesn't bother me if they choose lower keys. If it sounds good, who cares what key it's in? Whatever works. Robert should just find a new, different way to sing those songs. I would rather hear them done a new way than exactly like the original.

 

Thank you.

 

People's voices naturally age and become lower.

It's okay to do things differently.

Some of the Led Zeppelin material had the vocals sped up.

[Floyd Tatum]

Plant could never hit those things in their original keys, and most of the time, just rewrote the melody onstage, to varying degrees of "success", mostly to the point where you listen and go "WTF is he singing?" (And yes, I've got dozens of bootlegs to prove it.) You would not want to hear most of those "changed the melodies". I'd rather hear the melody of those songs, even in a different key, then his bastardized "interpolations". Yes, it may change the tonality of some songs (but I bet a few you wouldn't notice), but better to sound musical, than to sound unsuccessful.

 

On the other hand...

 

Better to take chances, have some failures, and make great music some of the time, than to play it safe and produce consistently mediocre music all the time.

 

[Tonysounds]

I agree....but better to put things in a key where the vocalist has a CHANCE of success than to play things in a key he couldn't reach 20 years ago much less today and produce consistently mediocre music all the time.

 

Since when did singing in key become so .... boring and mediocre? God knows few enough singers do it.