Who runs in stereo live?

[Calumet]

I am getting pretty tired of my thick string pads and such sounding harsh and thin on the gig. I am thinking that running in stereo might help matters some. Currently, I run a Carvin KB1000 amp into a Yamaha SV115 full range speaker. Its plenty loud but it is so hard to hear any texture when the rest of the band is playing.

 

Any suggestions? My amp is a stereo amp, so I could run with two monitors if I chose to. I am open to other's thoughts.

 

Thanks!

[MusicWorkz]

Whether I am using just my KC-350 or running thru the house, I always run my keys with both channels (L/R) into the amp or submix them to mono. The sound is much fuller, even without effects. Even still, unless the venue has that good of a house sound system, a lot fo the detail and texture will get lost along the way.

[DanS]

I run my boards in stereo to my Traynor K4, then stereo to the FOH board, and stereo back to the in-ears. The volume on the K4 isn't even up that much on stage, it's basically being used as a sub-mixer.

[Calumet]

At this point, I am more concerned with sound onstage. I can send stereo to the house if the need me to. Mostly, though, its the sound onstage or in rehearsal that I find lacking.

[Prague]

Stereo since 1978.

[tarkus]

I run stereo + bass cab.

 

I have the KP200s; I'm in stereo for key sounds and I route bass sounds exclusively through my ampeg b210.

 

It doesn't matter if the house is mono - unless you are in the audience and the guy running the board smushes everything into 1 channel with a flat eq.

 

 

[Byrdman]

I run two speakers placed close together at ninety degrees to one another each facing 45 degrees out. That makes the Leslie sim sound real nice. You do need to roll off the bass a little.

[Tonysounds]

Depending on the rig, I use mono or stereo. What I tend to find though is that stereo doesn't fix the getting lost problem, neither does getting louder. If youre finding some sounds like pianos are standing up alright in the mix, then you need to adjust the quality of the sounds themselves. This doesnt always mean making them more lush or pretty or louder. One of the ugliest sounding pieces of gear I ever had was the Emax. Everything coming out of it had this ultra-grainy low-fi quality that really bugged the crap out of me until I would hear it in the mix. Never had a problem hearing those sounds, even with big guitars and percussion. It actually made me rethink some of my D50 programming. If you cant hear your string patches, instead of making them orchestral, try making them mellotron-ish, or ARP String Ensemble-ish. With brass stuff, Ill always layer in some analog brass. This is the main reason I dont use any of the Korg stuff anymore: they have these cinematic patches (which you really cant do anything with anyway) that sound lush and gorgeous but become lost live because they dont really stake out any frequencies of their own. Mellotrons were kind of ugly sounding: but you always heard them! As with most sound, the detail tends to lie in the midranges, and it can be a fine line between clever and stupid (thank you David St. Hubbins) and what sounds great solod may not sound so great in context, and vice versa.

[Bill H.]

Stereo here also. My current monitor system, and sometimes mains in quiet rooms, are cabs I built myself using four 5" full range speakers in each one... not unlike what's in a Hot Spot, but in a line array. They're 8" per side, 32" tall, under 25 pounds each, and easily fit in the trunk of my Hyundai Elantra with an amp.

 

They require EQ much like a Bose.... the only reason I can think of why no one makes them commercially. They just don't sound good flat. But EQ'ed they're great, with a lot more sound and bass response than you might think.

 

This project turned out so good that I need to get pics up. I will over the holidays when my technically savvy sons come home. They're simple to make.

[Bobadohshe]

Depending on the rig, I use mono or stereo. What I tend to find though is that stereo doesn't fix the getting lost problem, neither does getting louder. If youre finding some sounds like pianos are standing up alright in the mix, then you need to adjust the quality of the sounds themselves. This doesnt always mean making them more lush or pretty or louder. One of the ugliest sounding pieces of gear I ever had was the Emax. Everything coming out of it had this ultra-grainy low-fi quality that really bugged the crap out of me until I would hear it in the mix. Never had a problem hearing those sounds, even with big guitars and percussion. It actually made me rethink some of my D50 programming. If you cant hear your string patches, instead of making them orchestral, try making them mellotron-ish, or ARP String Ensemble-ish. With brass stuff, Ill always layer in some analog brass. This is the main reason I dont use any of the Korg stuff anymore: they have these cinematic patches (which you really cant do anything with anyway) that sound lush and gorgeous but become lost live because they dont really stake out any frequencies of their own. Mellotrons were kind of ugly sounding: but you always heard them! As with most sound, the detail tends to lie in the midranges, and it can be a fine line between clever and stupid (thank you David St. Hubbins) and what sounds great solod may not sound so great in context, and vice versa.

 

This is beautifully put I think. Sometimes you need to make a patch sound a little over the top in terms of brassiness or edge for it to sit in a full band mix just right.

 

I run stereo whenever I can, but sometimes you can't and that's the way it goes. The issue is often that there aren't enough channels/DIs in the FOH or that if you have 2 speakers, there simply isn't enough room on stage for em. Pads sound awesome in stereo though.

[Dave Horne]

I run in stereo using two Bose 802s placed side by side but angled slightly away from each other.

[Calumet]

Depending on the rig, I use mono or stereo. What I tend to find though is that stereo doesn't fix the getting lost problem, neither does getting louder. If youre finding some sounds like pianos are standing up alright in the mix, then you need to adjust the quality of the sounds themselves. This doesnt always mean making them more lush or pretty or louder. One of the ugliest sounding pieces of gear I ever had was the Emax. Everything coming out of it had this ultra-grainy low-fi quality that really bugged the crap out of me until I would hear it in the mix. Never had a problem hearing those sounds, even with big guitars and percussion. It actually made me rethink some of my D50 programming. If you cant hear your string patches, instead of making them orchestral, try making them mellotron-ish, or ARP String Ensemble-ish. With brass stuff, Ill always layer in some analog brass. This is the main reason I dont use any of the Korg stuff anymore: they have these cinematic patches (which you really cant do anything with anyway) that sound lush and gorgeous but become lost live because they dont really stake out any frequencies of their own. Mellotrons were kind of ugly sounding: but you always heard them! As with most sound, the detail tends to lie in the midranges, and it can be a fine line between clever and stupid (thank you David St. Hubbins) and what sounds great solod may not sound so great in context, and vice versa.

 

Tony, I should have figured you'd have a really good take on the situation! I am going to mess around with the sounds in ways you recommended.

 

[Mr. Nightime]

The only time I don't run stereo is if there's not enough room on the stage. Some of our setups force me to run mono, but they are few and far between.

 

I agree that the string patches sound really good in stereo, but I've found my Rhodes patch is better in stereo. It has some stereo tremelo built in, and it is much nicer when I don't have to hear it in mono

 

We've got a couple gigs that we play where I run into FOH. I'll run stereo into FOH as well.

 

Due to power amp problems I was forced to run mono for a bit, and going back to stereo not only sounded better, it was inspirational.

 

[MikeT156]

Calumet:

 

Some other things to think about. How are you EQ'ing the rooms you are playing in, or should I ask, ARE you EQ'ing the rooms you play in? I'm a firm believer in having something other than a treble and bass control on a KB amp for keys. What do you have between your Carvin Amp and Yamaha Speaker? I've run in stereo since I can remember, I have a dual 31 band EQ which has made all the difference in the world for getting nasties out of the sounds and enhancing the frequencies I want to be heard.

 

The overall quality of your sound is only as good as the weakest (or cheapest) component of your system. If you own an EQ, but it sounds cheesy and colors the sound, get rid of it and buy a higher quality piece of gear.

 

One other thought, tell the rest of the band to TURN DOWN. Talk about adding dynamics to your songs if your group isn't doing it. No one will hear anything if everyone plays all night at one volume...LOUD.

 

 

[kanker.]

I run mono - why ruin a perfectly good gig with added phase issues and added gear? You are a single point, single source - embrace it!

[MikeT156]

Kevin, if you have a rompler that has stereo samples, then you need to run in stereo or the stereo programs will sound like crap.

 

 

Mike T.

[kanker.]

I understand that. This is a fundamental problem with the whole industry if you ask me. Stereo is a flawed concept to begin with, there's not really any instance in nature of sound emanating from 2 points, it's only really practical in the studio, and even then the hard panning that's needed to truly experience the intent of the various samples is not in any way a realistic representation of how most of those sounds really work. In my opinion, the whole stereo keyboard idea is something that was purely invented for the wow factor. It has no relationship to reality, it has no relationship to practicality, it has no relationship to actual real world fidelity.

[mate stubb]

I run stereo speakers for main keyboards, and stereo leslies for organ, which I guess are themselves omnidirectional.

 

So that makes me what, pentaphonic? dodecophonic?

[JohnH]

Started running stereo in my Doors tribute a few months ago. After years of running in mono, it's taken me awhile to get it setup right so I'm not swapping cables into the wrong places. This involved labeling cables with red and yellow tape and placing that same tape on the power amp. And of course making sure the right cables go to the proper panned channels. Hearing the leslie's kick in on my Mo6's organ voices has been a revelation. My weekend band is another story, because of how I monitor my vocals and send my stuff to the main board stereo isn't possible or really needed at the moment but I have some ideas for the future.

 

John

[DanS]

I understand that. This is a fundamental problem with the whole industry if you ask me. Stereo is a flawed concept to begin with, there's not really any instance in nature of sound emanating from 2 points, it's only really practical in the studio, and even then the hard panning that's needed to truly experience the intent of the various samples is not in any way a realistic representation of how most of those sounds really work. In my opinion, the whole stereo keyboard idea is something that was purely invented for the wow factor. It has no relationship to reality, it has no relationship to practicality, it has no relationship to actual real world fidelity.

 

You're absolutely right, but I love that sound swirling around my head like a bunch of crazy wowing bees....

[burningbusch]

As far as ROMplers and DPs go, you're only going to find stereo patches on ac piano, string ensembles and brass ensembles. Most have, at most, one or two sets of stereo multisamples in each of these categories. Every other sound is MONO. There are many brass ensemble performance/combi patches, for examples, that are really just mono brass instruments put together as a stereo ensemble and there would be no phasing issues if there were all panned to one side. The same goes for wide synth pads with lots of wide chorus FX. Most FXs, phasers, chorus, flangers, delays, wah, distortion and more sound absolutely fine in mono. Rotory, if it's a good sim, can work in mono as well. Stereo autopan (Rhodes stereo vibrato) obviously should be in stereo.

 

I run stereo because a) I'm too lazy to reprogram eveything to sound good in mono, b) I have to carry two speakers anyway as I double as PA, and c) I generally like the sound of stereo.

 

Busch.

[Calumet]

For those of you running stereo, what are you using for speakers? Full range p.a.? Monitors?

[MikeT156]

I have several different sets of full range speakers. One pair of (Old) JBL cabinets, one set of Peavey PS2's (new). Both these cabinets have a horn (not a piezo) and a 15" speaker. I also have a 3 way cabinet with a 6" mid range speaker which works great for smaller rooms where I want the vocals to stand out. The other cabinets with horns are not really near field speakers so they are better for larger or very crowded rooms.

 

Monitors can work if you don't play loud and you buy good quality speakers that are very efficient, like JBL. EAW makes great speakers too, bring your American Express.

 

Mike T.

[DanS]

We use Yorkville sats & subs.

[eric]

I am still sticking by my tried-and-true pair of Motion Sound KT80 amps. Not the loudest or most bass-happy speakers, but they provide me what I need for monitoring purposes. I have a nice long thread somewhere in the forum about how I modified these to tilt back.

[Blue JC]

I run mono most of the time unless someone that I know and trust is running FOH. I still run mono on stage unless I am provided stereo monitors by the sound company.

 

I need to hear what the audience is hearing when it comes to my keys. Most of the time, that's mono.

 

A couple of months ago, I went to hear a friend play and he asked me to sit in so he could hear his rig out front (and drink beer.)

 

His keys sounded crappy out front. The attacks were all mushy or non-existent, everything lacked presence and he was buried in the mix (even though the band wasn't loud at all.)

 

On stage, the keys sounded fabulous. He was running a real high-end stereo set-up and you could hear it all.

 

In my opinion, if you park yourself in the sweet spot of the stereo field on stage, you are not hearing what the audience is hearing. You may think it sounds great out front and therefore don't attempt to dial in a keyboard sound with presence in each room you play.

[MikeT156]

Yep, if your band uses a FOH system, that's a biggie. Blue JC is correct.

 

Mike T.

[ProfD]

+1 for Mono. Most important to me is getting the right "weight" i.e. EQ on my Rhodes and LH bass sound.

[ADino]

Anyone running Ivory live? Id be interested to know how you are getting that to sound out front...Stereo or mono....

[SK]

"who runs in stereo live?"

 

I do, with full range speakers, depending on the gig. But I have no problem running mono on smaller gigs when the only goal is to be heard, and sound quality isn't as important.