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#2913674 - 03/08/18 07:03 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Frank BFB]
Toey Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/18
Posts: 9
Loc: Sheffield, UK
Hi Frank

Its a bit apples and oranges when comparing the two.
The MP11 completely outclasses the SP6 as a stage piano but its twice the price and three times heavier. The action is buttery smooth and is generally considered the best action available on a stage piano. Its got great sounding APs and EPs with plenty of scope for tweaking and personalising. The other sounds are good but limited in their breadth and you can't layer strings and pads together because they're in the same section. They're there to supplement the pianos. There's no organ on the MP11.

I got the MP11 because I haven't got the space for an upright piano at home and I use it primarily as a piano. I sometimes use a split for left hand bass and occasionally layer some strings but that's it. The MP11 is set up for home playing and is staying there.

I got the SP6 for gigging. It seems to tick all the boxes for me: light, good price, massive sound potential, and a reasonable weighted action. I think the keyboard provides a reasonable compromise given the price and weight; the MP11 has full length wooden keys with ivory feel and is very quiet; the SP6 is all plastic, quite noisy and a little heavier. However, that said, it doesn't take me long to adjust to the different feel. As for sounds, there's the whole of Kurzweil's Forte Se and PC3 sound sets to choose from, as well as other third party sound sets, e.g. Dave Weiser. It's a much broader and deeper soundscape than the MP11. I've not looked into the MIDI implementation yet but I'm confident that it will provide the flexibility I think I'm going to need further down the line.

If you're looking for a digital piano then I think the MP11's as good as you can get it that format but trust me you think twice before moving it.
If you're looking for a portable keyboard with a weighted action and an excellent sound palette then I think the SP6 is as good as you can get at the price range.

I hope this helps.
_________________________
Kawai MP11, Kurzweil SP6, Arturia Keylab49

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#2913678 - 03/08/18 07:24 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Frank BFB]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Just bought the GKB-88 SLIM, and it is a very snug fit. I'm going to leave the keyboard in it for a few days to allow the material to stretch and take form - as much as it can. Still topples over, but I think the wedges may help. I don't think there'll be a better off-the-shelf solution.

Quick comment to Frank. I've owned an MP5, MP6 and MP7. Those are all great boards, and the MP7 gives the SP6 a run for its money. But in terms of weight, analogue synth sounds and overall flexibility, the SP6 wins for me. Add in the Forte SE pack, the old PC3 sounds and DW's additional tweaks, and you have a killer board for the money, IMO.

Still needs a few bug fixes, but they're minor.

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#2913731 - 03/08/18 11:32 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
Toey Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/18
Posts: 9
Loc: Sheffield, UK
I've just packed mine up to go to practice and it stands up fine, with a slight lean.
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Kawai MP11, Kurzweil SP6, Arturia Keylab49

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#2913775 - 03/08/18 02:55 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Toey]
Coker Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 70
Loc: Connecticut
Can someone compare the SP6 action to a Nord Stage 88HA?
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CP4, ZXA1, CA93, NS2HA76

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#2913834 - 03/08/18 10:09 PM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
Frank BFB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2
Thanks for the information.

I will try out the SP6 when it is available in Europe.

Does anyone know if a SP6-7 is in the pipeline?
That would be the perfect solution for me.
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Frank van Meijl

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#2914022 - 03/09/18 07:21 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Toey]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Originally Posted By: Toey
I've just packed mine up to go to practice and it stands up fine, with a slight lean.


It seems to depend on whether you have anything in the front pockets. I took pedal and power supply out, and the board stayed upright (with that slight lean), but the extra couple of pounds is enough to tip the balance.

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#2914081 - 03/10/18 07:11 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
sherry Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 145
I don't know what in the world Kurzweil was thinking in designing the SP6. While it hits most boxes on my list, I can't get past the awful fugly look of this thing. It just seems to be much larger than need be and those ping-pong paddles on the backside, what the -- Just my humble opinion, but ugh.

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#2914102 - 03/10/18 08:57 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Coker]
vocalchords88 Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/12
Posts: 5
To my hands the SP-6 action is slightly heavier than the NS2 and a bit more sluggish.
IMHO not as good of a compromise between piano and organ as the Nord but more like a piano. That being said I am getting used to it after playing it for a week.

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#2914219 - 03/10/18 11:46 PM Re: SP6 [Re: sherry]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1291
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: sherry
I don't know what in the world Kurzweil was thinking in designing the SP6. While it hits most boxes on my list, I can't get past the awful fugly look of this thing. It just seems to be much larger than need be and those ping-pong paddles on the backside, what the -- Just my humble opinion, but ugh.


I thought the same thing until I picked it up in the middle (unit horizontal). Then I got it. Handles like a dream whilst being hand-carried, better than any 88 note board I've ever owned.

Otherwise the enclosure is shaped to support and fit the action. They actually made it as small as they possibly could. Design meetings for products like this used to be painful - pound of flesh type stuff. It's one of the things I miss the least about working for a keyboard company!


Edited by Dave Weiser (03/11/18 12:45 AM)

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#2914222 - 03/10/18 11:56 PM Re: SP6 [Re: vocalchords88]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1291
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: vocalchords88
To my hands the SP-6 action is slightly heavier than the NS2 and a bit more sluggish.
IMHO not as good of a compromise between piano and organ as the Nord but more like a piano. That being said I am getting used to it after playing it for a week.


The Nord Stage action (TP40m) is very similar to the Forte action (TP40L). What I tell people who ask me about the actions in the SP6 vs the Forte:
The Forte/Forte7 feels amazing for a $3K-ish board that weighs 48/41 lbs.
The SP6 feels amazing for a $1300 board that weighs 27 lbs.

Action is by far the most expensive and heaviest component in a keyboard. If you want to shave off cost and weight, compromises have to be made. No way around it without magic. The trick is to minimize the hit to feel.

In my opinion the Fatar TP100 (another cost/weight reduced action) tried but missed the mark (used in Kurz Artis, Forte SE and Nord HP models). Doesn't shave off enough price/weight and doesn't feel great (to me). And is noisy as hell.

In my opinion the Medeli action in the SP6 nailed it. Shaved off a ton of price and weight and feels better (to me) than the TP100.

Expecting the $1300 SP6 action to feel like the TP40 models will result in suffering, anger and the dark side. You know the rest...

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#2914235 - 03/11/18 05:24 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
Coker Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 70
Loc: Connecticut
Thanks, Dave. Thoughtful response, as usual.
_________________________
CP4, ZXA1, CA93, NS2HA76

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#2914248 - 03/11/18 07:21 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
ewall08530 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 692
I am pleasantly surprised by how much I like the action on the SP6. I've owned a Casio PX5s for years and while I agree with many how good that keyboard feels to play, so far I have really connected with the Kurzweil in a way I never quite did with the Casio. The fingers to sound connection feels great and I've settled on the "Piano Touch" setting for velocity.
I've not gigged with it yet but 2 rehearsals and lots of time spent playing it lead me to believe that this is a keeper.

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#2914252 - 03/11/18 07:48 AM Re: SP6 [Re: ewall08530]
Marillo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 359
Loc: UK
On the look/design of the SP6, I don't know why they didn't go for the same casing as the Forte SE, which just looks slimmer and doesn't have so much extraneous plastic at the ends (or the increasingly notorious 'paddles'!).

I'm sure Dave's right when he talks about the action being the most cost-critical equation in the whole thing, but they could surely have saved a few bucks more by shaving some of the plastic off the SP6?!

Having said that I've only seen pictures and wondered how people are finding it when it comes to lugging it about - obviously it's lighter so that's a bonus but is it unwieldy to carry? (I have narrow staircases to navigate to my basement rehearsal room!)

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#2914254 - 03/11/18 07:56 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Marillo]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Originally Posted By: Marillo
...I've only seen pictures and wondered how people are finding it when it comes to lugging it about - obviously it's lighter so that's a bonus but is it unwieldy to carry? (I have narrow staircases to navigate to my basement rehearsal room!)

It's an 88 and so you need to be aware of length when negotiating tight spaces - it would be easy to bang it into door frames etc., but I'm finding the width (15") no problem. It feels very light, and is easy to move, pack and unpack.

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#2914263 - 03/11/18 08:23 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
Marillo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 359
Loc: UK
Thanks for info voxpop, getting closer to pulling trigger on SP6. I love my 5D but just find the sample synth section too limiting (and don't have the money for a Stage 3).

Might refashion my rig from Nord 5D bottom/ Yamaha MX-49 top to an SP-6 bottom + Mojo 61/Viscount Solo/HX-3 on top (I own an old Studiologic SL-161 I could midi that up to).

There isn't much cost difference between both rigs...

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#2914267 - 03/11/18 08:44 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Marillo]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
You're welcome, Marillo, Have you considered the VR-09 to add a basic synth section?

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#2914285 - 03/11/18 11:00 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
Marillo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 359
Loc: UK
I did have a VR-09 but didn't get on with the organ tone, and as synth I think the SP6 would actually be better with its VAST engine. So I'd probably look to have a dedicated organ on top of the SP6, since I'm guessing the KB3 wouldn't quite match the Electro (I play a fair bit of classic rock/Deep Purple etc!)

One other facet of the Electro I'm finding recently is that the idea of 'hands-on' control is a bit of a misnomer, for me at least. In live performance there's only so much twisting of knobs and pressing of FX on/off I can do without detracting from the music.

Often, on a darkened stage, I'll reach for a button and it's the wrong one or I double-press or go past the effect I want. The Stage 3 actually looks even more bewildering from this point of view.

So I'm leaning now toward preferring to have most of my patches setup beforehand, with just a few knobs to deal with like cut off/resonance/reverb etc.

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#2914309 - 03/11/18 01:33 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Marillo]
AnotherScott Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11986
Originally Posted By: Marillo
On the look/design of the SP6, I don't know why they didn't go for the same casing as the Forte SE, which just looks slimmer and doesn't have so much extraneous plastic at the ends (or the increasingly notorious 'paddles'!).


I think the Forte SE is metal, so presumably would have made the board noticeably heavier.

From the pics, it looks to me like, at least to some extent, the paddles serve to protect the back panel connectors, essentially "recessing" them.
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Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2914334 - 03/11/18 03:09 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Frank BFB]
Dlrshort Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 222
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Frank BFB
Hi Toey,

Could you tell me more about the SP6 compared to the MP11.
I personally own a Kawai MP6 and I want to replace that with an SP6.
Main reasons are weight and the lower quality sounds beside the AP en EP of the MP6.
What I need are quality AP, EP, Organ, Strings and analog sounds.


I bought the SP6 to replace the MP7 weight, but to my ear the MP 7 has much nicer AP voices. And I can easily EQ them to cut through all that guitar stuff. Reluctantly I returned the Kurzweil but in my bands the AP is used 90% of the time. I occasionally layer strings and use brass, flute,accordion, EP and sax voicings which are adequate on the Kawai. So unfortunately I keep coming back to my Kawai and will continue breaking my back.


Edited by Dlrshort (03/11/18 03:10 PM)

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#2914339 - 03/11/18 03:22 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Dlrshort]
AnotherScott Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11986
Originally Posted By: Dlrshort
I bought the SP6 to replace the MP7 weight, but to my ear the MP 7 has much nicer AP voices. And I can easily EQ them to cut through all that guitar stuff. Reluctantly I returned the Kurzweil but in my bands the AP is used 90% of the time. I occasionally layer strings and use brass, flute,accordion, EP and sax voicings which are adequate on the Kawai. So unfortunately I keep coming back to my Kawai and will continue breaking my back.

The MP7 is nice. If you want to look at some other lighter boards that might do what you want, the Nord Electro 5HP would be a super light contender, albeit a pricey one. The Yamaha CP40 seems to get overlooked in favor of the CP4, but it weighs and costs less, has most of the same sounds, and still a decent action. Not super light, but still knocks over 10 lbs off the Kawai. Yamaha also has the lighter MOXF8... if you're okay with the action, even if you're not so thrilled with the stock piano, it has some pretty nice additional piano sounds you can load in if you add the flash card.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

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#2914377 - 03/11/18 08:39 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Dlrshort]
TomKittel Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 554
Originally Posted By: Dlrshort
Originally Posted By: Frank BFB
Hi Toey,

Could you tell me more about the SP6 compared to the MP11.
I personally own a Kawai MP6 and I want to replace that with an SP6.
Main reasons are weight and the lower quality sounds beside the AP en EP of the MP6.
What I need are quality AP, EP, Organ, Strings and analog sounds.


I bought the SP6 to replace the MP7 weight, but to my ear the MP 7 has much nicer AP voices. And I can easily EQ them to cut through all that guitar stuff. Reluctantly I returned the Kurzweil but in my bands the AP is used 90% of the time. I occasionally layer strings and use brass, flute,accordion, EP and sax voicings which are adequate on the Kawai. So unfortunately I keep coming back to my Kawai and will continue breaking my back.


Did you try Dave Weiser‘s piano sounds or the Forte SE piano expansion set with your SP6? These cut through in a band setting pretty nicely.

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#2914389 - 03/11/18 10:47 PM Re: SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
I understand what Dirshort is saying. I think Kurzweil should take another look at the "optimization" of the APs in the SP6.

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#2917766 - 03/28/18 02:58 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Originally Posted By: voxpops
I understand what Dirshort is saying. I think Kurzweil should take another look at the "optimization" of the APs in the SP6.

Sometimes wishes are granted!

New firmware: Version 1.10. Substantial improvements to the APs, and many of the other bugs addressed. Thanks Kurzweil!

like

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#2917804 - 03/28/18 07:18 AM Re: SP6 [Re: RudyS]
Legatoboy Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3719
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
Version 1.10 Release Notes
(For OS 3.84.30314 / Object 1.01.6)

MULTI MODE:

Fixes/Improvements:

When local keyboard channel is enabled and you are changing multis via MIDI, the screen was not being updated with the current multi. this is now fixed.
FX stability improvements.
Favorite changes were sending duplicated program changes making it not smooth.
EDIT / CC Pedal - The CCPedal now offers an entry value parameter.

PROGRAM MODE:

Fixes/Improvements:

Japanese and German piano keymaps improved for smoother velocity changes, linear and vertical key to key transitions, and general volume balances.
Five intermediate layers have been introduced to the following German piano programs to smooth out sample cross-switching from lower dynamics through higher dynamics:

-1 Dyn 9ft Grand
-3 Bright Jazz 9ft
-5 Punchy Edge
-7 Smooth Grand 9ft

Three intermediate layers have been introduced to the following Japanese piano programs to help smooth out sample cross-switching from lower dynamics through higher dynamics.

-2 Rich Grand 7ft
-4 Intimate Pno 7ft
-6 Studio Grand 7ft
-8 Solo Grand 7ft

(The resultant programs were made to sound as close as possible to the originally released programs.)

FX stability improvements.
EDIT / Assignable Params - Plus and Minus will now scroll through the whole list.
KB3 - Drawbar display (0-8) is now properly reversed.
KB3 / EDIT / Master - Mono parameter is no longer displayed.
Favorite changes were sending duplicated program changes making it not smooth.

GLOBAL MODE:

Fixes/Improvements:

FILE / Store - When there are no user objects are in the system, all of the Store menus are no longer presented.
FILE / Store - Proper error messaging is displayed after loading no/invalid objects.

GENERAL:

Features:

Added support for external software editor.
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Where words fail, music speaks volumes

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#2918026 - 03/29/18 10:23 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Legatoboy]
hazerkeys Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 295
Loc: canandaigua, ny
had my SP6 a couple weeks and starting to really like - getting ready for practice and then gigs .. I have the Dave W sounds, but any idea where I can get additional (from Kurz, etc) - like the SP6, but not as many patches as my PC1x it is replacing that I had used for gig setups ...


Edited by hazerkeys (03/29/18 10:23 AM)
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PC1x, CX-3 (new), Prophet 6, KBR3d (gig rig)
An1x, Little Phatty, Hammond M3, Leslie 145, viscount op-3, Nord Lead 2, K2000.. (home studio)

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#2918031 - 03/29/18 11:08 AM Re: SP6 [Re: hazerkeys]
hipogrito Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 62
Loc: East Northport,NY
You can upload lots and lots of sounds from ksetlist... including all the 512 Forte SE programs...

Fran

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#2918046 - 03/29/18 12:11 PM Re: SP6 [Re: hipogrito]
hazerkeys Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 295
Loc: canandaigua, ny
Originally Posted By: hipogrito
You can upload lots and lots of sounds from ksetlist... including all the 512 Forte SE programs...

Fran

thank you !! assume that is on the Kurzweil website, so will go there and look - thanks
_________________________
PC1x, CX-3 (new), Prophet 6, KBR3d (gig rig)
An1x, Little Phatty, Hammond M3, Leslie 145, viscount op-3, Nord Lead 2, K2000.. (home studio)

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#2918081 - 03/29/18 02:19 PM Re: SP6 [Re: hazerkeys]
nickd Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/24/10
Posts: 958
Loc: UK
It's actually at http://ksetlist.com

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#2918089 - 03/29/18 02:58 PM Re: SP6 [Re: nickd]
ewall08530 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 692
Say hello first..... :-)


Edited by ewall08530 (03/29/18 02:59 PM)

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#2920404 - 04/09/18 04:42 PM Re: SP6 [Re: ewall08530]
sleepngbear Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 570
Loc: RI
SP6 shipped! Should be here Wednesday!!! And no snow in the forecast!!!!!!
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D-10; M50; SP4-7; CP4; SSv3!
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