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#2912011 - 02/27/18 08:57 AM Re: SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I'm guessing you meant there was not a way to have the knobs control EQ on those patches? Is there at least a way to do it through editing via menu?


Poorly phrased on my part. No, I meant that Kurz should have another look at these "optimized" new pianos and at least get them on par with the old triple strike for EQ and richness of tone, particularly in the bass. The 7' grand doesn't suffer as much as the 9' in this regard.

As far as I can tell, the PC3 programs don't respond to the knobs in the same way as the internal factory sounds. It would be useful, but it's not a big deal for me. Those sounds were generally very well programmed in my opinion.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I see that the new update adds a feature:
Quote:
"NEW "Show Params" parameter (page 1/6) - If set to Yes, a new page appears in Program Edit Mode (4/4) where all the Parameters of the Program will be shown
so the questions would be, does the new feature of showing all parameters work on imported PC3 programs, and can you then edit the formerly hidden parameters or are they merely "shown" to you for informational purposes? My guess is that it would work on PC3 programs and that they would be editable, but since that was the extent of the documentation, the only way to be sure would be to try it (or maybe ask someone at Kurz or Dave W). Then you'd have to see if EQ is indeed one of the revealed parameters you can access on imported PC3 programs. Regardless of any of that, worst case, there is an editor coming out, and presumably you'd be able to edit the EQ of PC3 programs there.


I'll need to do some more menu diving to be sure about what can be done with the old stuff, but as you say, the editor should take care of all that.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Listening to the "optimized" Forte pianos on the SP6 versus the old triple-strikes, I'm wondering if there isn't a whole lot of room for improving the SP6 pianos in an update.

Do you feel this way equally about both the German D and the Japanese?

As mentioned above, I think the Japanese piano is the one that needs the most work. I'd be curious to try Dave Weiser's patches as I think he has the most experience programming piano sounds for Kurzweil. I don't know whether he's going to be offering them for sale or not, but I would hazard a guess that they make the most of the SP6's horsepower.

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#2912021 - 02/27/18 10:24 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12712
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I'm guessing you meant there was not a way to have the knobs control EQ on those patches? Is there at least a way to do it through editing via menu?


Poorly phrased on my part. No, I meant that Kurz should have another look at these "optimized" new pianos and at least get them on par with the old triple strike for EQ and richness of tone, particularly in the bass.

Ah!!
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#2912078 - 02/27/18 03:57 PM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
jahfume Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 50
Loc: Oxon
Dave has offered his recent batch of Aps/EPs for free to anyone on this board who's got an SP6 - so send him a private message and get downloading!

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#2912079 - 02/27/18 04:09 PM Re: SP6 [Re: jahfume]
Chris47 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/18
Posts: 9
So to return to my previous question, for those who have loaded the PC3 sounds, how exactly do you do it? I've downloaded 2 .PC3 files, a normal one and a KORE one. Can you load all the sounds into the 1024 SP6 user programs in one shot? Or do you have to select them individually? Looking at the PC3 documentation it would seem there are slightly too many to fit in the 1024 slots ...

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#2912112 - 02/27/18 11:29 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Chris47]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
I loaded the pc3 files onto a USB stick. Then I went to Global and found the place where you load (File Page 3/6 - file storage options). I then loaded the complete set of pc3 files in one go. It fills all the user slots and just ignores the surplus. I believe you can also access individual patches within a set, but I haven't tried that. If you then try to save a user program in a full store, you simply overwrite an existing patch. So I assume, if you want to load your KORE file after installing the regular PC3 set, you'd tell the system where to start loading, and it would overwrite the appropriate number of programs from there - but that is just an assumption.

One word of caution. As an initial experiment, I thought I'd try loading some files I'd downloaded from other PC3 users at various times. I installed half a dozen or so, went back to playing... and nada... not a peep from the SP6. I rebooted and still nothing - not a single note would play, no matter the patch. It seems that the system must be fairly easy to corrupt. Fortunately, it reloaded the latest OS without a hitch, and everything was back to normal.

It made me think back to my PC361 days, and I remember loading a couple of patches that wouldn't play, though they didn't seem to affect other programs. I must have loaded those same corrupt programs, but the SP6 may be a little more fragile in that respect.



Edited by voxpops (02/28/18 01:50 AM)

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#2912114 - 02/28/18 12:00 AM Re: SP6 [Re: jahfume]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Originally Posted By: jahfume
Dave has offered his recent batch of Aps/EPs for free to anyone on this board who's got an SP6 - so send him a private message and get downloading!

Thanks! Yes, I sent Dave a message a few days ago, but I think he may be away on tour or sunning himself somewhere exotic.

It's a very generous offer, but I'd be happy to pay for a few significantly improved AP and EP patches - I believe the raw material is there.

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#2912130 - 02/28/18 03:07 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Further bug reports:

1. Editing Multis: attempting to transpose KB3 in Zone 1 results in Zone 2 being transposed instead. I tried it with a non-KB3 sound yesterday, and had a similar result, but with a lot of fiddling and transferring sound 2 to zone 3, eventually I made zone 1 transpose stick. Today, with KB3, it seems impossible.

Edit: Zone 1 transpose doesn't seem to work properly with other sounds, either, and sometimes (unpredictably) changing zone 1 transpose will affect a completely different zone.

2. Editing Multis: Placing KB3 in zones 2,3,4 makes the pedal Leslie control inoperable. This may be due to the assigned channel, but it's not ideal.

3. There seems to be no way to assign reverb levels to saved Multis (haven't tried with Programs yet). The reverb level always seems to default to zero, requiring it to be reset every time you change a patch.


Edited by voxpops (02/28/18 04:50 AM)

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#2912148 - 02/28/18 06:07 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
A HUGE shout out to Dave Weiser, who just sent me his SP6 files free of charge... and I'm not even a paying customer (living in the UK). That is just so amazingly generous!!!

If you're thinking of buying anything Kurzweil, please, please, please go straight to Dave!

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#2912151 - 02/28/18 06:38 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
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Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Great programming, by the way, Dave! Just auditioned a few of the samples and they're really an enhancement to the SP6. Love that "WHO" lead with a little vibrato!

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#2912258 - 02/28/18 03:19 PM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
Chris47 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/18
Posts: 9
Just out of interest voxpops where in the UK did you manage to source an SP6?

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#2912329 - 02/28/18 11:34 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Chris47]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Bonners Music in Eastbourne. I believe they and the distributor are the only ones with the SP6 at present.

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#2912330 - 02/28/18 11:48 PM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 3077
Loc: Australia
I dropped in to Bonners several years ago when visiting relatives in Eastbourne.

Well stocked shop. They also had Hammond Suzuki on display and nearly every Yamaha board.
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#2912461 - 03/01/18 11:15 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Markay]
Dlrshort Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 304
Loc: NJ
I too have sent Dave a PM and havenít heard back from him as he may be away. Also wondering if anybody Has access to a good saxophone patch for the SP6?Disappointed in the ones that are included.

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#2912562 - 03/01/18 05:29 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Dlrshort]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1298
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: Dlrshort
I too have sent Dave a PM and havenít heard back from him as he may be away. Also wondering if anybody Has access to a good saxophone patch for the SP6?Disappointed in the ones that are included.


Sorry I missed the messages. Files and email sent! Hope you enjoy the sounds.

Forum messages are not a great way to reach me. Email and Facebook are best.

weiserdav@gmail.com

Anyone with an SP6, be sure to join the Facebook SP6 users group!
https://www.facebook.com/groups/230605954173420/

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#2912563 - 03/01/18 05:30 PM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1298
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: voxpops
Great programming, by the way, Dave! Just auditioned a few of the samples and they're really an enhancement to the SP6. Love that "WHO" lead with a little vibrato!


Thanks for the kind words, glad you like the sounds. I created it for The Who's last tour. They ended up dropping the song so I was able to share it with the public. (Townsend's A Little Is Enough)

Cheers!

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#2912569 - 03/01/18 06:42 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
Dlrshort Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 304
Loc: NJ
Wow, Dave, love the new Piano and Synth sounds ; I always say this is my last keyboard, but I know better. Next time I will buy from you. I bought the SP6 to shed some weight from the Kawai, MP7, which I really love. I have fingers crossed that this will be my light weight replacement. I am in a Guess who tribute so AP's that cut through all that guitar work are a must. Thanks, again.


Edited by Dlrshort (03/01/18 06:45 PM)

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#2912592 - 03/01/18 10:33 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Dlrshort]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Dirshort, you could try the sax patches from the PC3 objects. I'd recommend downloading it anyway - there are some really useful sounds. It's a pain trying to keep it all straight in the SP6, if you don't know what you'll need beforehand, but worth the effort. You just need to download the last PC3 OS file from Kurzweil, and extract the Objects file.

I, too, needed lighter weight - hence the SP6. I'd been banging on for years about the unnecessary (IMO) dumbing down of lightweight keyboards, and this is one of the few 88-key hammer action boards that meets the challenge.

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#2912599 - 03/02/18 12:51 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
One suggestion I have for SP6 owners is to download the Forte SE extra packs. Within the pianos is an updated (using the SE/SP6 extra effects resources) version of the old Horowitz Grand. That is one great sounding piano, and it plays well, too. It may be, at heart, an old triple-strike program, but it demonstrates what the updated engine is capable of. I really think that the new SP6 pianos could benefit enormously from expert reprogramming. A 9ft. grand should have a huge bottom end - not a wimpy, nasal poke!

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#2912603 - 03/02/18 03:48 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
Marillo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 372
Loc: UK
Interesting info Voxpops...I wondered if you could answer a few questions I have about the SP6. For info, I currently use an Electro 5D-73 for organ, piano, some samples and above that a Yamaha MX-49 for strings, acoustic instruments, brass and some synth (although these tend to be very 'digital' sounding).
I'm in a classic rock band that does everything from Comfortably Numb to Frankenstein!

So...

*How are you finding doing basic editing? You mentioned adding more attack to some string patches - this should be easily done with the front panel knobs. This would be useful for say, the string figure in the chorus of Comfortably Numb?

*You mentioned good synth/lead sounds...could you expand on this? (this would be great for the above-referenced 'Frankenstein'...the MX-49 patch doesn't really have that liquid analogue sound). Is it actually virtual analogue in the SP-6?

*Is it possible to route the KB3 to a second board? I wondered if could use the SP-6 midi'd to an upper board just for organ?
How are you finding the KB3 programs? I think this is where I'd lose out if I sold the Electro 5D. Although I'd then consider an SP-6 with maybe a HX3 module above it.

*The bottom-end piano thing isn't such a worry for me since I wouldn't be using it solo...if anything I avoid the bottom end so as not to clash with our bass player.

*How are you living with the form factor/weight of the SP6?

Thanks in advance!

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#2912604 - 03/02/18 04:07 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Marillo]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Originally Posted By: Marillo
*How are you finding doing basic editing? You mentioned adding more attack to some string patches - this should be easily done with the front panel knobs. This would be useful for say, the string figure in the chorus of Comfortably Numb?

Yes, basic editing is pretty easy, and the front panel knobs are handy. As I pointed out, there are a couple of bugs in the software, but knowing Kurzweil's record on these issues, I would expect an updated OS before too long.

I haven't had to edit the strings yet, as I found just what I needed among the huge number of PC3 string patches.

Originally Posted By: Marillo
*You mentioned good synth/lead sounds...could you expand on this? (this would be great for the above-referenced 'Frankenstein'...the MX-49 patch doesn't really have that liquid analogue sound). Is it actually virtual analogue in the SP-6?

I believe that the SP6 has the VAST engine, which is a VA synth. With the forthcoming editor, I'd imagine that you could edit most parameters to suit. There are a few good analogue-type sounds in the SP6, and a bunch more in the PC3 pack. Dave Weiser's custom patches add another handful. What's good is that there is a thickness and presence that suggests analogue much better than say the VA synth in the VR-09.

Originally Posted By: Marillo
*Is it possible to route the KB3 to a second board? I wondered if could use the SP-6 midi'd to an upper board just for organ?
How are you finding the KB3 programs? I think this is where I'd lose out if I sold the Electro 5D. Although I'd then consider an SP-6 with maybe a HX3 module above it.

If you mean playing the KB3 organs from a second board, I'd imagine you could if you use the correct MIDI channel. This is not something I've been able to try yet, so I'm just guessing.

Originally Posted By: Marillo
*The bottom-end piano thing isn't such a worry for me since I wouldn't be using it solo...if anything I avoid the bottom end so as not to clash with our bass player.

I think that's partly the ethos behind a lot of Kurz sounds - they're designed for ensemble work rather than solo.

Originally Posted By: Marillo
*How are you living with the form factor/weight of the SP6?

Haven't moved it out of the studio yet, but I'm hoping that, despite the bulk, it'll be easy to move around. Just hope it holds up!

Originally Posted By: Marillo
Thanks in advance!

You're welcome!

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#2912765 - 03/02/18 07:33 PM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 12712
Originally Posted By: sleepngbear
So I was banging away on my SP4-7 today, and I was reminded how much richer and fuller the pianos are than even the CP4's. Particularly the Horowitz Grand -- it's bright and crisp, but full-bodied without being tinny. It's always been -- and still is -- my favorite digitally-reproduced AP, even with the inherent compromises of the older technology. But I also can't help but miss the extra richness that string resonance adds that the CP4 (and others) provide, which I know the SP6 also has. If the SP6 has something close to the Horowitz Grand of the SP4 series (which the above demo and others seem to suggest it does), tastefully incorporates string resonance, and has a decent action, I'm gonna be one happy hobbyist when I finally get my hands on one.
Originally Posted By: voxpops
One suggestion I have for SP6 owners is to download the Forte SE extra packs. Within the pianos is an updated (using the SE/SP6 extra effects resources) version of the old Horowitz Grand. That is one great sounding piano, and it plays well, too. It may be, at heart, an old triple-strike program, but it demonstrates what the updated engine is capable of.

I stand corrected, and sleeping bear is going to be one happy camper! I didn't think any of the new enhancements (like KSR) would be able to be applied to the older PC3-based pianos. Cool.

Originally Posted By: Marillo
How are you finding the KB3 programs? I think this is where I'd lose out if I sold the Electro 5D.

If you're going to replace one of your two boards with an SP6, maybe replace the MX (whose functions/sounds I think the Kurz can cover pretty well) rather than the Nord (which is more of a different animal)? Though sonically, there are really 3 potential Nord advantages, and maybe they're not so essential here. One is organ, and as you said, you're also open to an HX3 for that if need be. Another is a much wider range of different piano sample sets, but that might not matter is you're simply very happy with the ones from Kurz. The third would be custom sample loading, which is very important to some people and a non-issue for others. So I guess if these particular things aren't tying you to the Nord, then maybe keeping the Yamaha makes perfect sense. The Yamaha does have some very nice acoustic instrument sounds, with a different character from Kurz. (Personally, for my own needs, if I had to put together a single lightweight 2-board rig that would most comfortably carry me through the widest range of scenarios, it would probably be a Nord Stage 3 and a Kurz.)

Originally Posted By: voxpops
]I believe that the SP6 has the VAST engine, which is a VA synth....What's good is that there is a thickness and presence that suggests analogue much better than say the VA synth in the VR-09.

Interesting. I was thinking about how the Artis7 and the VR730 compare as either all-in-one boards or upper boards... they are both sub 30 lb, 7x key piano/rompler/clonewheel/VA synth combos with above average actions, and the VA section is something where I wondered how they would compare sonically. (Overall, I'd give the Kurz the edge in functionality, but it would be nice if they had an app as nice-looking and straight-forward as Roland's.)
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#2913376 - 03/06/18 12:51 PM Re: SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
ewall08530 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 729
What are you guys who are gigging with the SP6 using for a soft case?

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#2913416 - 03/06/18 08:17 PM Re: SP6 [Re: ewall08530]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Originally Posted By: ewall08530
What are you guys who are gigging with the SP6 using for a soft case?


I got a Stagg K18-150 sent to me when I purchased the keyboard. It's too long and a little too wide, but due to the SP6's front to rear depth, there aren't too many cases that'll fit. It'll do until I find something with a snugger fit. Maybe it would squeeze into a CP4 roller case???

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#2913436 - 03/07/18 02:22 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
One thing to be aware of is that you can't stand the SP6 on its back in a soft case. The angled (raked) back means that the keyboard will always fall forward onto keys and knobs! I am going to try using a couple of foam wedges in the case to see if that helps.

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#2913448 - 03/07/18 04:27 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
Marillo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 372
Loc: UK
A 76-note SP6 would be my absolute dream right now...!

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#2913450 - 03/07/18 04:52 AM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
jpkeys Online   content
Member

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 25
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: ewall08530
What are you guys who are gigging with the SP6 using for a soft case?
I have the Gator GKB-88 SLIM Gig Bag, and it fits like a glove. Decent protection, too. There are heavier duty Gator cases with similar dimensions as well.

Originally Posted By: voxpops
One thing to be aware of is that you can't stand the SP6 on its back in a soft case. The angled (raked) back means that the keyboard will always fall forward onto keys and knobs!
Haven't found that to be true with the Gator GKB-88 SLIM. Stands on its back okay, actually better than the other boards I lug in "gig bags" (MOXF8, NE5D73, PX-5S, XK-1c), which always seem to topple over.
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#2913461 - 03/07/18 05:44 AM Re: SP6 [Re: jpkeys]
voxpops Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/30/12
Posts: 676
Thanks jpkeys, the Gator sounds like the best fit.

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#2913585 - 03/07/18 02:21 PM Re: SP6 [Re: voxpops]
Toey Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/18
Posts: 12
Loc: Sheffield, UK
I've got the same Gator gig bag as jpkeys and he's spot on about the fit and it stands on its back perfectly well.
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Kawai MP11, Kurzweil SP6, Arturia Keylab49

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#2913601 - 03/07/18 04:16 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Toey]
ewall08530 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 729
Thanks guys. I'm getting good feedback on that Gator GKB 88 slim.
I'm going with that.

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#2913642 - 03/08/18 12:25 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Toey]
Frank BFB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/07/18
Posts: 2
Hi Toey,

Could you tell me more about the SP6 compared to the MP11.
I personally own a Kawai MP6 and I want to replace that with an SP6.
Main reasons are weight and the lower quality sounds beside the AP en EP of the MP6.
What I need are quality AP, EP, Organ, Strings and analog sounds.
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