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#2922726 - 04/21/18 04:53 PM Re: SP6 [Re: ChiefDanG]
hipogrito Offline
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Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 74
Loc: East Northport,NY
AnotherScott, I just posted a long post at http://ksetlist.com/journal talking about these kind of compatibilities issues... hopefully that clarifies most of the concepts discussed.

Regards,
Fran

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#2922738 - 04/21/18 07:29 PM Re: SP6 [Re: ChiefDanG]
sleepngbear Offline
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Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 583
Loc: RI
Originally Posted By: ChiefDanG
I'm currently gigging w/ PX5s. Two things I LOVE are the feel/touch of the key bed and the Wurly sound. Can anybody compare those two items to the SP6?
Tanks.

I had a PX5s a couple of years ago, and I can't honestly remember the EP's on it, mostly because I didn't use them much. But the SP6 does have some pretty nice Rhodes variations and a couple of decent Wurly's.

I do remember, though, that I did not care much for the PX5s's action. But I am loving the touch of the SP6. To me it's as good as the CP4, just a tiny bit noisier, but that's only really noticeable when I've got the volume turned down (which is not very often). I feel as 'connected' to this board as I did with the CP4.
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#2922762 - 04/22/18 05:50 AM Re: SP6 [Re: sleepngbear]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: hipogrito
AnotherScott, I just posted a long post at http://ksetlist.com/journal talking about these kind of compatibilities issues... hopefully that clarifies most of the concepts discussed.

A lot of great info there, thanks! Though I am confused about this part:

Quote:
Loading factory samples into different keyboards

So, what happens if you load a PC3 sample object, pointing to PC3 factory sample data, into a PC3K/A/PC3LE/Artis/Artis SE/SP4/SP5? Nothing bad. Allís good as long as they are just factory stuff, not Kore64. All those products have the factory samples in the same addresses.

But, what happens when you load those samples into a Forte/Forte SE or SP6? Weird sounds will happen. Because while these products have all those samples, they are in different addresses and in some cases even in different format.

Why would one want to load "sample objects" (as opposed to Programs) into an SP6 at all? Or is it that Programs include sample objects?

Originally Posted By: sleepngbear
I am loving the touch of the SP6. To me it's as good as the CP4, just a tiny bit noisier, but that's only really noticeable when I've got the volume turned down (which is not very often). I feel as 'connected' to this board as I did with the CP4.

That's good to hear! Why did you choose to replace your CP4 with a SP6 in the first place? Were you looking for lighter weight? Or were there other sounds or features that persuaded you?
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#2922773 - 04/22/18 07:10 AM Re: SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
Marillo Offline
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Registered: 01/04/05
Posts: 378
Loc: UK
I'd be amazed if the action on the Kurzweil's Medelli is 'as good' as the CP4's.

The CP4 allows you to improve technique and facility to the point where it's transferable to a real acoustic or grand. It's that good.

However I have found it a touch too heavy to lug around so use it mainly at home now - and this is where the SP6 will come in.

If the action is even CLOSE to the CP4 it will become my new gigging bottom board - particularly when you consider it includes KB3 and the VAST synth engine, for which third parties are already making great synth sounds. And at that price?

The SP6 is hard to beat.

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#2922788 - 04/22/18 08:11 AM Re: SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
sleepngbear Offline
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Registered: 01/21/15
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Loc: RI
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

Originally Posted By: sleepngbear
I am loving the touch of the SP6. To me it's as good as the CP4, just a tiny bit noisier, but that's only really noticeable when I've got the volume turned down (which is not very often). I feel as 'connected' to this board as I did with the CP4.

That's good to hear! Why did you choose to replace your CP4 with a SP6 in the first place? Were you looking for lighter weight? Or were there other sounds or features that persuaded you?

Mostly because I wasn't 100% happy with the AP's. They are definitely very good, but even tweaking the EQ I couldn't get the sound I wanted. I remembered a better sound experience with my Kurz's. Purely personal taste. Secondarily was the weight. I haven't gigged in awhile, but I'm thinking about it again, and I'm just getting too old to lug around that kind of bulk if I do.

Of course my biggest concern was losing the CP4's action. but that's proven to be unfounded -- I'm very happy with the SP6's. And keep in mind, I have gotten rid of other boards specifically because I didn't like the action. The CP4 was and is a great piano; the SP6 just kinda suits me a little bit better.
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#2931152 - 06/04/18 05:11 PM Re: SP6 [Re: sleepngbear]
Chris47 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/18
Posts: 9
OK, so rather tardily returning to my previous posts, could I ask a couple of questions about loading PC3 sounds into the user program memories:

1/ Will these programs have the correct effects assigned to them?

2/ Will these programs appear under the various sound categories (piano, organ etc.)?

Just trekked down to Bonners Eastbourne to try out an SP6. Action a bit heavy for me, but I've been gigging with a 61 key synth for 20 years. Think I could get used to it. Lovely pianos, couple of nice EPs, not convinced by some of the other sounds (who needs 16 clavs or choirs, could use some more bog-standard organs, strings and brass), so need the PC3 sounds available as a fall back.

Also noticed that there's a noticeable glitch on changing multis, presumably due to the effects chains. That could be a bit of a pain.

Still on the fence as to whether to pull the trigger.

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#2931169 - 06/04/18 07:01 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Chris47]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Any comments on smooth sound transitions and how it works when switching multis and signals in the FX chain?

Not surprising a weighted action instrument feels heavy when coming from synth actions exclusively, Iím most curious about how it compares to CP4 and/or the current Casio action, or the TP-100 used in other light weight stage pianos.
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#2931171 - 06/04/18 07:10 PM Re: SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Coker Offline
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Registered: 02/13/16
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Loc: Connecticut
Programs {individual sounds) transition smoothly; play a note, hold it with damper pedal, switch programs and the held note still plays until you release it. Multis seem to change effects for everything immediately, so you hear the changed effect if holding a note during the change to a new multi.


Edited by Coker (06/04/18 07:11 PM)
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#2931176 - 06/04/18 07:31 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Coker]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Coker
Programs {individual sounds) transition smoothly; play a note, hold it with damper pedal, switch programs and the held note still plays until you release it. Multis seem to change effects for everything immediately, so you hear the changed effect if holding a note during the change to a new multi.

It may have to do with how many effects are in use between the two multis... Maybe you wouldn't hear a glitch between multis if there ween't that many effects in use between the two of them...?
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#2931224 - 06/05/18 06:20 AM Re: SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
hipogrito Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 74
Loc: East Northport,NY
Hi,

For multi smooth transitions is all about how many FX units the programs in those multis use.

The SP6 has 32 units of FXs, which is a lot. The PC3 family has 16. If you use less than 16 in each multi, it will normally transition smoothly when changing from A to B.

It's true that factory programs tend to use a good amount of FXs resources because, well, they sound pretty awesome. So, if you put 4 of them together in a multi it's likely that it will go over 16 units per multi. If that's your case, and you need multi smooth transition, you should use the free PC Editor and create your own programs based on the factory ones, and assign fewer FX units to them. Some FX Chains can do a lot with very few FX units.

In short, if smooth transition in multis is a must for you, it is doable.

Regards,
Fran

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#2931484 - 06/06/18 03:28 PM Re: SP6 [Re: hipogrito]
Chris47 Offline
Member

Registered: 01/24/18
Posts: 9
Interesting thoughts about smooth sound transition - I doubt I'll ever be changing from one big multi to another, so I'm not too worried. Didn't notice any issues switching programs. However did anyone have any obs on my two questions on loading PC3 programs:

1/ Will these programs have the correct effects assigned to them?

2/ Will these programs appear under the various sound categories (piano, organ etc.)?

I'd be particularly keen to know that item 1 was OK.

Thanks,

Chris

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#2931495 - 06/06/18 05:23 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Chris47]
Coker Offline
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Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 171
Loc: Connecticut
If PC3 programs came in without the right effects, couldnít you just reassign them? The editor program Kurzweil provides looks pretty easy to use.
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#2931548 - 06/07/18 07:10 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Chris47]
Toano88 Offline
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Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 2532
Loc: Toano, Virginia, USA
Originally Posted By: Chris47
Interesting thoughts about smooth sound transition - I doubt I'll ever be changing from one big multi to another, so I'm not too worried. Didn't notice any issues switching programs. However did anyone have any obs on my two questions on loading PC3 programs:

1/ Will these programs have the correct effects assigned to them?

2/ Will these programs appear under the various sound categories (piano, organ etc.)?

I'd be particularly keen to know that item 1 was OK.

Thanks,

Chris


I have only installed some PC3 brass samples that Fran gave me but yes the effects assigned were correct.
And yes, they went to the correct category as the last programs in the category.

Same with Dave W's patches.
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#2931557 - 06/07/18 07:57 AM Re: SP6 [Re: hipogrito]
Stokely Offline
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Registered: 12/15/12
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Hmm I'd definitely like to check this out if it has a new action. My pc361 has been a great gigging board soundwise but it has had reliability problems. I strongly disliked the action in the SP4 (tp100?) or I might have picked one of those up a few years ago.

Edit: there would have to be a 73/76 key version first though. I had enough problems on some of our stages with my VR700, an 88 is not necessary for what I do and would make life very difficult.


Edited by Stokely (06/07/18 08:01 AM)

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#2936657 - 07/07/18 01:22 PM Re: SP6 [Re: Stokely]
jeffw_00 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/12/15
Posts: 85
Hi - Although my K2500X is my main board, my wife and I started doing OpenMics, so for that I use an Alesis Q88 + PC2R, as the K2500X is not so portable :-). Only good thing about the Q88 is the weight and price (as originally I wasn't sure how much use it would get), but now that I'm using it more I'd like something better.

The SP6 has really caught my attention - the first Kurzweil product with VAST light enough to carry around. Could replace both the Alesis AND the 2500X. My fear is that as some have noted, it's in some ways a compromise product. Can anyone comment on

- keybed vs K2500X (Fatar TP10)

- sounds vs K2500X (I've been a bit disappointed with the PC2R sounds - I suspect they're 8b vs 16b in the 2500X = so my concern is that the SP6 sounds may also be compressed to cut cost)

What would probably really make me happy is a 25lb. Forte, but.... :-).

Anyway - if anyone has done comparisons I'd love to know your thoughts. Thanks!
/j

[My plan B is to swap the Alesis for an StudioLogic SL73 (Fatar TP100LR, 24lb.) when they start shipping in August]
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#2936693 - 07/08/18 04:36 AM Re: SP6 [Re: jeffw_00]
Coker Offline
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Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 171
Loc: Connecticut
Iíve been using the SP6 for a couple months now and have been using it in larger groups where I need ďcompressedĒ pianos and B3 sounds. For smaller jazz gigs, Iím reluctant to drop the CP4 because of the expressiveness of its keybed. Iím really liking the sound and portability of the SP6, but I canít get the dynamic range of the pianos where I like it yet. In particular, if I dig a louder passage, the piano sounds donít seem to fully react as they do on the CP4.
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#2936811 - 07/09/18 03:46 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Coker]
Legatoboy Offline
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Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
Coker, try using a slightly lighter velocity curve ...did you try that! I was working on my SP-6 a lot this past weekend. I have stayed with the 'piano' curve because for piano it does seem to be the most logical but I notice the lighter curves let you dig in a bit and get more amplitude out of the piano patches of course. When using lighter curves it can throw some other aspects of the touch I know but it's worth a try...Light 1 isn't to bad...Light2 you really get some 'bang' out of the response but maybe a bit to much...I haven't found an 'offset' yet for the curves!

Maybe somewhere in the editor that can be affected, I spent a bit of time with that also this past weekend. Yamahas DP's generally do react well to velocity historically at least for me, ND they always have I noticed in their 'P' line DP's almost right out of the box but with my Yamaha CP50 DP, and their sampling scheme change/modeling I had to do a lot of programming trial and error to open up the CP-50 in regard to the same issue for my tastes... I still enjoy that ax lot but it took some work.

Not sure yet if the SP6 has that level of programming refinement yet in terms of tailoring the amplitude response specifically for their DP's but I did notice the piano patches in the editor at least do have Envelope and Amplitude filter pages but I believe they were not active for the piano patches when I brought them up in the SP6 editor.


Edited by Legatoboy (07/09/18 03:59 AM)
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#2937060 - 07/10/18 06:51 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Legatoboy]
mcpepe Offline
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Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 61
Loc: Spain
I have just sold my Kurzweil PC3. I really liked its Rhodes, cp80, Wurly and Mellotron patches, and some of the synths. But I really hated the acoustic pianos and the action feel when I played it.
I am now mostly doing gigs with 95% of the time playing acoustic piano sounds.
Do you think buying a new SP6 is an improvement in acoustic pianos, and keyboard feel, coming from a PC3?
And it's 5kgs less


Edited by mcpepe (07/10/18 06:56 AM)
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#2937062 - 07/10/18 07:05 AM Re: SP6 [Re: mcpepe]
Coker Offline
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Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 171
Loc: Connecticut
Iím going to guess that the SP6 will be better than the PC3 for piano sound and feel. First, the PC3 uses a semi weighted keybed, while the SP6 uses a fully weighted hammer action, which will be better for piano. By the way, I have a CP4 as well, and itís becoming less clear to me why I am keeping the Yamaha. As for piano sound, the SP6 has newer piano samples than the PC3, which I assume means they are better. The infamous Triple-Strike Piano is getting a little long in the tooth. That being said, Iíve read that some prefer the older piano, and I think itís even included as one of the SP6 programs. AND, the SP6 is certainly a lot lighter than the PC3. You will notice that the SP6 doesnít have nearly as many controls as the PC3, and you may miss, for example, full real-time control over organ sounds.
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#2937063 - 07/10/18 07:11 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Coker]
Toano88 Offline
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I had an S4-7 when it first came out that I eventually sold because I didn't like the acoustic piano sounds. The SP-6 is way better than those old Triple Strike piano sounds. And as far as the pianos being 'compressed' I have installed the pianos that Dave W made and don't experience this at all.
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#2937065 - 07/10/18 07:16 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Coker]
Legatoboy Offline
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Coker,

I don't prefer the PC3 piano samples over the SP6's so far, I can A/B them with the old sample in the SP6 also...I mean when Yamaha switched their sampling scheme on the new CP series from their 'P' series DP's there were die hard Yamaha folks who didn't care for it.

I got tired of playing with the Yamaha sound myself after using it very successfully for over 15 year, still a very good piano sound (best in my CP50) - you have to admit and it holds up ell in a lot of varied sonic environments and playing-wise but there is nothing unusual about wanting/needing a little variation especially after such a long time with one brand.

I always keep the instruments that work for me best.. I'll keep the CP50 and the SP6 around for a while

lb


Edited by Legatoboy (07/10/18 07:40 AM)
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#2937188 - 07/10/18 02:33 PM Re: SP6 [Re: mcpepe]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 2040
Originally Posted By: mcpepe
Do you think buying a new SP6 is an improvement in acoustic pianos, and keyboard feel, coming from a PC3?


I presume the 76-note PC3. In which case, (respectively):
- yes (I was never a Triple Strike fan, but very much liked the Forte pianos), and;
- subjective, but I detested with a passion the Fatar TP9 action in the PC3 for piano. Not tried the Medeli in the SP6, but some have compared it to Yamaha's budget hammer action (in e.g. the MX88/MOXF8), to which I would give a pass, but not a commendation.

Cheers, Mike.
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#2937246 - 07/11/18 02:52 AM Re: SP6 [Re: stoken6]
Legatoboy Offline
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Registered: 08/11/06
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Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
I just came from Yamaha's budget action in the MX-88 which I sold to buy my SP-6...no the Medeli action is better than Yamaha GHS ...it's more like the GH that is in the P-255. Maybe a bit better but more like a bit different...1st thing I noticed unboxing the SP6 was that the action seems to give a slight 'escapement' bump after initially depressing a key. It's a pretty smooth action and much better than the GHS's implementation in the MX-88 for my hands. The MX key throw was to shallow for my taste though it was responsive and the GHS has some laterally movement in the keys buy it's design. The Medeli is much better in that regard and feels sturdier under the hands.

Yamaha action list:


Edited by Legatoboy (07/11/18 05:46 AM)
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#2937271 - 07/11/18 05:35 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Legatoboy]
jeffw_00 Offline
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Registered: 12/12/15
Posts: 85
I'm told that the SP6 samples are much better than PC2 (so, better than PC3?). The Medeli keyboard is a balance between weight and action, so I'm really curious to hear more about it compared to their older Fatars. I may have a chance to try one out myself in a couple of weeks and will post back, but I'm interested in anyone else's experience too.
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#2937283 - 07/11/18 07:05 AM Re: SP6 [Re: jeffw_00]
Legatoboy Offline
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Registered: 08/11/06
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Yes, they are better than the PC3 also! PC3 still had the old Triple Strike . . .
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#2937292 - 07/11/18 07:22 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Legatoboy]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 13001
From an earlier post, Hipogrito said:

Quote:
At the sample level, the SP6 and Forte SE have all the PC3 base sounds, including KORE64 and the German Artis piano plus a very nice Japanese Grand, Rhodes 73 (in my opinion the electric pianos coming from the Forte, like this one, are way better than previous ones), Harpsichord (also a miles better than previous), Celeste, Clav, Crotales, some synth waveforms....

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#2937295 - 07/11/18 07:32 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Legatoboy]
Coker Offline
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Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 171
Loc: Connecticut
Legatoboy, I donít detect an escapement bump. The key press resistance on mine is smooth all the way down to the bottom. Do you still detect escapement now that youíve had the keyboard for awhile? If so, maybe they changed something in the design since I bought mine.
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#2937303 - 07/11/18 07:54 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Coker]
mcpepe Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/25/10
Posts: 61
Loc: Spain
Thanks everybody for the answers.
The other day I had the oportunity to play a Roland FP30 and I liked its piano sound and also the action(the man in the store told me it had escapement like real piano actions). It felt very good for piano playing. In Europe a Roland FP30 is half the price of the SP6 500Ä vs 1000Ä more or less. And I only need the acoustic piano (for now) so.
In fact, I also had the oportunity to play a Casio CDP130 (300Ä) and it surprised me how well it felt playing piano sounds. Almost as good as the Roland FP30, but without the ivory keys and without the escapement.

I know I will be happier with any of them (for piano playing), than with my now sold Kurzweil PC3.
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#2937304 - 07/11/18 08:00 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Coker]
Legatoboy Offline
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Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3950
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
Originally Posted By: Coker
Legatoboy, I donít detect an escapement bump. The key press resistance on mine is smooth all the way down to the bottom. Do you still detect escapement now that youíve had the keyboard for awhile? If so, maybe they changed something in the design since I bought mine.


I'll check it out again, I thought I did when I 1st unboxed it without sound... then I got absorbed in playing it and headed out to a gig with it the 1st night and now programming it ... I haven't checked again..I'll check again asap and let you know...until then consider that only a possibility ..I'm pretty sure though, I thought I felt a slight bump! I should have verified that again before I posted ... no problema!


Edited by Legatoboy (07/11/18 09:49 AM)
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#2937488 - 07/12/18 04:19 AM Re: SP6 [Re: Legatoboy]
Legatoboy Offline
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Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3950
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
Originally Posted By: Coker
Legatoboy, I don&#146;t detect an escapement bump. The key press resistance on mine is smooth all the way down to the bottom. Do you still detect escapement now that you&#146;ve had the keyboard for awhile? If so, maybe they changed something in the design since I bought mine.


I'll check it out again, I thought I did when I 1st unboxed it without sound... then I got absorbed in playing it and headed out to a gig with it the 1st night and now programming it ... I haven't checked again..I'll check again asap and let you know...until then consider that only a possibility ..I'm pretty sure though, I thought I felt a slight bump! I should have verified that again before I posted ... no problema!


Ok just checked, well there is a bit of resistance about half way through the key throw that I thought might be an escapement bump, still not 100 sure it isn't but it is most likely just the mechanism at work...new out of the box the keys were pretty new and stiff and in new buyers glee said 'wow escapement too' but rethinking now after just touching the keybed I'm not so sure...
I may not have actually had the SP6 totally flat and half in the box when I felt it too thinking back....I was in such a hurry to check out the instrument to possibly use on that night's gig ( which I did) that I just moved on from there and never really looked into my perception again till now, so ! . . . Supposedly some speculate it's the Medeli K6 action in the SP6....their K8 action has escapement for sure because it says so on their webpage for their home line DP's.

I did find this: Piano forum post on Medeli K6 in SP4200 action in the SP6?


Medeli - Stage Pianos


Edited by Legatoboy (07/12/18 05:00 AM)
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