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#2837048 - 02/20/17 02:58 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Jazz+]
davedoerfler Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 5868
Loc: thin ice
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
GAS attack... I just ordered both: Mojo 61 and and SK1 so I can compare their actions, there J. Smith soulfulness, and their Herbie Rhodes.


GAS attack for sure. keys
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Kawai 52" Upright, '61 Hammond A100, '81 Rhodes 88 Mark II Stage,'71 Wurlitzer 200, Clavinet E7, Moog Voyager, Leslies 142/Studio 12, Yamaha CP 70, DSI Prophet 08, Arp Solina, Yamaha CP4, Crumar Mojo

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#2837719 - 02/22/17 11:29 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Mitch Towne]
John Tweed Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/04/11
Posts: 203
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: Mitch Towne
To add more bass (MOAR BASE!!), do the following:

1. Select tonewheel set #4 - 1956 B3 *MT.

2. Select Tonewheel Shaping parameter "Boost 1".

More bass.

Can someone describe in more detail what the Tonewheel Shaping parameter does? The takeaway from Mitch's comment is that Boost 1 increases the bass without increasing the mids and treble? Is that correct? I'lve tried all the settings and it seems to me the cut or boost is fairly evenly applied across the tonewheel range, and doesn't really help much with the keyboard balance.

I played an XK5 today, and the keyboard balance was perfect. My SK1 works like this too, after a bit of tweaking. Try as I might, the middle keyboard section (the comping zone) of my dual manual Mojo always overpowers the bass end.
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#2837754 - 02/23/17 05:40 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Barryjam]
Outkaster Offline
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Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5555
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Barryjam
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
The Hammond action is better to me and I have both.


Can you describe how it is better than Mojo61?


It just is for me the shape of the keys and it just doesn't seem as robust. It could be because I am piano player 80% of the time I think that way but I really don't do organ heavy gigs like some of you.
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#2837793 - 02/23/17 09:15 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Outkaster]
mate stubb Online   content
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 14904
I have owned both also. The XK1-C Hammond action is good - light and fast. I have no problems executing organ techniques on it.

The Mojo modified action is very similar. It's slightly more crisp and therefore slightly closer to a real console action.

The beauty of the long keys that are sprung from the rear with leaf springs is that a console action is crisp without feeling like the springs are pushing your fingers back up and fighting you.
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Moe
---
hardware: "If you can't play a real Hammond w/ a Leslie a clone won't be much help."

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#2838608 - 02/27/17 06:09 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: John Tweed]
John Tweed Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/04/11
Posts: 203
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Originally Posted By: John Tweed
Originally Posted By: Mitch Towne
To add more bass (MOAR BASE!!), do the following:

1. Select tonewheel set #4 - 1956 B3 *MT.

2. Select Tonewheel Shaping parameter "Boost 1".

More bass.

Can someone describe in more detail what the Tonewheel Shaping parameter does? The takeaway from Mitch's comment is that Boost 1 increases the bass without increasing the mids and treble? Is that correct? I'lve tried all the settings and it seems to me the cut or boost is fairly evenly applied across the tonewheel range, and doesn't really help much with the keyboard balance.

I played an XK5 today, and the keyboard balance was perfect. My SK1 works like this too, after a bit of tweaking. Try as I might, the middle keyboard section (the comping zone) of my dual manual Mojo always overpowers the bass end.


For more bass, first of all check what your "Resistor Wires" setting is. If you are on "Standard" then that could be your problem.

To hear the difference, set up the lower manual with 838000000 and play some left hand bass with right hand comping. On the "Old" setting the bass is fuller and the balance across the keyboard is good. Now try it on the "Standard" setting - the bass drops a bit and becomes a bit more uneven and the comping sound is fuller. The overall keyboard is not as well balanced with the "Standard" setting.

The full explanation is related to changes in the wiring in the original between earlier and later versions, as described here.

http://www.dairiki.org/HammondWiki/LoudnessRobbing

Based on reading this article I had experimented with both settings, but I was thinking it was going to affect the sound more when using full organ settings with more drawbars involved. I didn't try it out as described above. Since it didn't seem to make any difference I always returned to the "Standard" setting, and that's how I have been using it.

I have been battling to get the keyboard balance sounding right for LHB gigs, and have spent a lot of time messing with tonewheel sets. I could get the bass louder but the comping still always seemed to overpower the bass.

If you are playing LHB, you'll probably find that "Old" is the way to go. I have a trio gig coming up this weekend and hopefully that will fully prove the results for me.
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Crumar Mojo, Yamaha CP4, Hammond SK1, Privia PX3, Korg Triton LE61, Yamaha NP30, Neo Ventilator, Spacestation 3

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#2838631 - 02/27/17 08:09 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: John Tweed]
mate stubb Online   content
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 14904
Are you using the pedal to lower manual coupler when you want to do LH bass? When I do it brings the thunder. I can't ever pull the 16' pedal drawbar more than halfway out.
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Moe
---
hardware: "If you can't play a real Hammond w/ a Leslie a clone won't be much help."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2838645 - 02/27/17 09:13 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: mate stubb]
John Tweed Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/04/11
Posts: 203
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I've tried the pedal coupling, but it doesn't sound quite right for the traditional jazz organ sound, and it interferes with using the pedals. It's a useful sound for non-traditional playing but I can play the SK1 without any pedal coupling and it works just fine.
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Crumar Mojo, Yamaha CP4, Hammond SK1, Privia PX3, Korg Triton LE61, Yamaha NP30, Neo Ventilator, Spacestation 3

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#2838650 - 02/27/17 09:31 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: John Tweed]
mate stubb Online   content
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Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 14904
Not a fan really of the bass you get out of a real console either. It's tubby and hard to hear unless you juice it somehow - add a bass unit or external amp.
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Moe
---
hardware: "If you can't play a real Hammond w/ a Leslie a clone won't be much help."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2838656 - 02/27/17 10:05 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: mate stubb]
John Tweed Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/04/11
Posts: 203
Loc: Sydney, Australia
I don't have much experience on a real console - they are not all that common in Australia. One of the reasons I got the Mojo is because of its reputation as sounding close to the real thing. Listening to early Hammond recordings the bass is often hard to discern. Even some modern recordings - eg Dr Lonnie's CD Spiral from a couple of years ago - seem to be somewhat deficient in the bass department. But there are plenty of examples nowadays where the bass is pretty good - eg Gerard Gibbs with the James Carter Organ Trio.
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Crumar Mojo, Yamaha CP4, Hammond SK1, Privia PX3, Korg Triton LE61, Yamaha NP30, Neo Ventilator, Spacestation 3

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#2838665 - 02/28/17 02:04 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: John Tweed]
sosho Offline
Member

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 9
Loc: germany
Hello John, sorry if You mentioned it before : Do you play the Mojo With its built in Leslie or With Your Ventilator ? Thanks

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#2838790 - 02/28/17 03:07 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: sosho]
John Tweed Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/04/11
Posts: 203
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Hi Sosho. Yes I use the vent for all gigs, but I don't always bother at home. I wouldn't have bought the vent if I already had the Mojo, but at the time I got it I was using the SK1, and the slowest fast speed setting in the SK is just too fast for me. I had a play on an XK5 last week but it was running through a Leslie so I didn't get a chance to hear if they made any changes to the internal sim.
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Crumar Mojo, Yamaha CP4, Hammond SK1, Privia PX3, Korg Triton LE61, Yamaha NP30, Neo Ventilator, Spacestation 3

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#2838802 - 02/28/17 04:40 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: John Tweed]
BrandonBruce Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/26/16
Posts: 157
Loc: Ontario (ON)
I played my Mojo 61 through my new Alto TS215 powered speaker today and really liked it, although I found it harsh sounding, like all other powered speakers I've tried. I was using my Vent II during this test.

I have a SansAmp Paradriver V2 in my studio that I use with my old keyboards. It really brings them to life. I tried using that between the Mojo and the Vent and bingo - I finally have the stage sound that I've been searching for. The Paradriver really smooths out the sound and removes the harshness. It also eliminates extra noise that was in the signal - no more hiss from my speaker.
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Hammond B3, 122 RV, PR20
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Mojo 61, Yamaha CP40, Yamaha DX7

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#2838868 - 03/01/17 05:57 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: BrandonBruce]
Delaware Dave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2551
Loc: Take a guess ....
Brandon, try the exact same setup with the ELX112P. I found it to be the warmest of all of the speakers you have mentioned so far. I think with the Vent and the SamsAmp you will now like how the EV will sound.
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#2838968 - 03/01/17 01:30 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: BrandonBruce]
rockinroller Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 154
Loc: Detroit
I used to use the Alto TS115a powered speakers for my boards (I've had most of the Hammond clones made in the last 5+ years!), then stepped down to the 112a's, and they seemed to punch better and the "muddiness" of especially the B3 and AP sounds was much less than what I experienced with the 15s.

I now own a pair of Alto TS212a cabs and run my boards into a Samson MDR 624 mixer before heading over into the cabs, and IMO I've achieved the perfect blend of punchy bass (I play LH bass in most of my performing entities), crystal clear mids and trebles from the AP and Hammond B3 sounds, and just an overall healthy "thickness" in the output (I also use the "scoop" button on each of the cabs, to soften the mids and enhance the highs and lows).


Edited by rockinroller (03/01/17 01:54 PM)
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#2849517 - 04/14/17 06:19 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: rockinroller]
mate stubb Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 14904
Lookie what showed up on FB tonight.

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Moe
---
hardware: "If you can't play a real Hammond w/ a Leslie a clone won't be much help."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2849551 - 04/14/17 08:52 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: mate stubb]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5390
What does it mean?
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Mojo 61: 888300000 with CV3 On, Stopped Cabinet On, Percussion Off, '65 B3 version... Casio PX-360 (26 lb, 4 inboard speakers), 2 EV SxA360 12" powered speakers, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.

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#2849561 - 04/14/17 09:53 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Jazz+]
mate stubb Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 14904
Mojo 61 now will have a clavinet.
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Moe
---
hardware: "If you can't play a real Hammond w/ a Leslie a clone won't be much help."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2849589 - 04/15/17 04:46 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: mate stubb]
Daniel71 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/27/11
Posts: 76
Loc: Rimouski Canada
And sustain on organ
:-)

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#2849618 - 04/15/17 08:14 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: mate stubb]
drawback Offline
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Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3080
Loc: Victoria, BC Canada
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Mojo 61 now will have a clavinet.


Fantastic!!

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#2849705 - 04/15/17 12:51 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: drawback]
Jazz+ Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5390
And how about a faster Piano response? My Mojo 61 Acoustic Piano patch can't keep up with my runs like the Mojo 61 Rhodes patch can.
_________________________
Mojo 61: 888300000 with CV3 On, Stopped Cabinet On, Percussion Off, '65 B3 version... Casio PX-360 (26 lb, 4 inboard speakers), 2 EV SxA360 12" powered speakers, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.

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#2849709 - 04/15/17 01:26 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Jazz+]
drawback Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3080
Loc: Victoria, BC Canada
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
And how about a faster Piano response? My Mojo 61 Acoustic Piano patch can't keep up with my runs like the Mojo 61 Rhodes patch can.


Anything else?

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#2849730 - 04/15/17 06:13 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: drawback]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5390
I would like a Vibraphone added to the Mojo 61 sound bank.
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Mojo 61: 888300000 with CV3 On, Stopped Cabinet On, Percussion Off, '65 B3 version... Casio PX-360 (26 lb, 4 inboard speakers), 2 EV SxA360 12" powered speakers, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.

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#2849732 - 04/15/17 06:32 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: drawback]
Music*aL Offline
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Registered: 09/20/00
Posts: 2440
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: drawback
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
And how about a faster Piano response? My Mojo 61 Acoustic Piano patch can't keep up with my runs like the Mojo 61 Rhodes patch can.


Anything else?


Cowbell.... Please!!!
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#2849735 - 04/15/17 07:26 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Jazz+]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 4666
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
And how about a faster Piano response? My Mojo 61 Acoustic Piano patch can't keep up with my runs like the Mojo 61 Rhodes patch can.


Assuming the EP is modeled and the AP sampled.
Possible the sample engine has greater latency?
Or, if not seeing the same on other sampled libraries, maybe the front end of the piano samples weren't cut close enough to the attack?
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#2849743 - 04/15/17 10:15 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
mate stubb Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 14904
AFAIK everything is modelled EXCEPT AP. Clav will be modelled too.
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Moe
---
hardware: "If you can't play a real Hammond w/ a Leslie a clone won't be much help."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2849751 - 04/15/17 11:24 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: mate stubb]
Jazz+ Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5390
Ah ha, that explains the latency issue with AP. Thank you.
_________________________
Mojo 61: 888300000 with CV3 On, Stopped Cabinet On, Percussion Off, '65 B3 version... Casio PX-360 (26 lb, 4 inboard speakers), 2 EV SxA360 12" powered speakers, 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano.

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#2849775 - 04/16/17 06:26 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: drawback]
FunkKeyStuff Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1800
Originally Posted By: drawback
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
And how about a faster Piano response? My Mojo 61 Acoustic Piano patch can't keep up with my runs like the Mojo 61 Rhodes patch can.


Anything else?


Bitimbrality. That is now literally the only thing keeping the Mojo 61 from being my dream board. But alas, the lack of it is a deal breaker.
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#2849777 - 04/16/17 06:38 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
Six-string-man Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/06/13
Posts: 1291
Loc: U.K.
A multi-timbral 73 key version would see me throwing my credit card at Crumar. I wouldn't even hesitate for a second!


SSM
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Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on!

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#2849781 - 04/16/17 07:16 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Six-string-man]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 4666
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: Six-string-man
A multi-timbral 73 key version would see me throwing my credit card at Crumar. I wouldn't even hesitate for a second!


SSM


If they do a 73 key single manual it really needs the full Gemini sound engines (the VA synth in particular) and samples and please stick pitch and mod wheels on (maybe even AT). At that point it becomes a much more useful board for many.
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Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

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#2849788 - 04/16/17 08:05 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
davedoerfler Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 5868
Loc: thin ice
at that point it becomes a Nord Stage. wink
_________________________
Kawai 52" Upright, '61 Hammond A100, '81 Rhodes 88 Mark II Stage,'71 Wurlitzer 200, Clavinet E7, Moog Voyager, Leslies 142/Studio 12, Yamaha CP 70, DSI Prophet 08, Arp Solina, Yamaha CP4, Crumar Mojo

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