Bodhi Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 I've dabbled in playing piano and organ and harpsichord. I'm looking for my first really good all-around keyboard that does everything well, at least decent. Since I can't afford a nice accoustic grand, digital pipe organ and accoustic harpsichord, I hope to acquire a good digital keyboard with (a) decent piano action but not too heavy and inhibiting of using with organ sounds (b) lots of good keyboard voices. I'm not so interested in strings, or oohs and ahhhs - just good keyboard voices - pianos, electric pianos, harpsichords and organs - both drawbar/leslie and pipes. The CP300 has a good ky feel but only 3-4 pipe organ sounds (but lots of gimmicky synthesized sounds). The MP8 on the other hand has 128 keyboard voices - 32 pianos, 32 electric pianos, 32 drawbar organs, 20 pipe organs, and 12 haprsichord, clavichord and other assorted keyboard sounds. A very nice collection of keyboard sounds IMHO but the keyboard is very heavy for non-piano sounds. Anyone else out the with eclectic keyboard interests but only enough budget/space for one nice (<$2,500) keyboard, At least for now. I will probably add an AGO pedalboard for practicing classical organ pieces. What's your favorite all-around sort-of-does-it-all) keyboard? "Don't let your karma run over your dogma". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moog_Man Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 look at the nord stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverDragonSoun Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Yamaha S90ES. This is a real subjective question. You really need to got out there and play some keyboards and see what fits the bill best for you. There are many peopl with many differing opinions. All their opinions are generally right since they purcaed what works best for them. Begin the day with a friendly voice A companion, unobtrusive - Rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Other possibilities: Kurzweil PC2 GEM ProMega 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 I'd say a PC2 with orchestral and classic keys fits the criteria. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Posted September 3, 2006 Author Share Posted September 3, 2006 I should have mentioned with respect to MIDI capabilities - I probably need high polyphony and ability to map a 32 key pedalboard to a separate set of voices in the keyboard (to not have to purchase an expensive sampling module). That was one of the attractive things about the MP8 - 192 note polyphony! I appreciate the help, I know little about MIDI implementation. Can you map the external pedalboard say to keys 89- 111 of the keyboard using a split (nice organ bass voice for the pedal board and different voice (or layering of voices) for the keyboard? It's my understanding that with sophisticated wet samples with long decays, you need a lot of polyphony to prevent notes from switching off prematurely. Am I being unrealistic about having one keyboard serve as a decent practice keyboard for multiple instruments. Many thanks. "Don't let your karma run over your dogma". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewall08530 Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Nord Stage...oops your budget not enufffff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted September 3, 2006 Share Posted September 3, 2006 Jack of all trades, master of none? For me, the acoustic piano sound and Rhodes sounds are paramount. I own the Yamaha P250 and love the piano and Rhodes sound. There are a handful B3 sounds, more than I need, and are more than adequate. There are also a few pipe organ sounds. Everyone here has their favorite, I just bought the P250 as I have owned several Yamaha's and have been happy with them. The most difficult sound to pull off is an acoustic piano sound, everything else for me is secondary. It would appear that a compromise is inevitable. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 While it sounds like you are in the market for a DP moreso than a synth, considering the prices nowadays, a synth like the S90ES offers every sound you want and more. Never know when the inspiration will hit to use something other than AP, EP, harpsi and organ. Good luck and welcome to the forum. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroehmann Showman Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I can personally recommend the Alesis QS8.2 I've had it for years and it's a great all around keyboard... It does everything pretty well, and it's VERY reasonably priced (about a grand). I've had it for years. I'd give every aspect of the keyboard about a B+/A- rating, from action, sounds, compatability, durability, user ease, etc. I've found plenty of other keyboards that can get higher ratings in one or two areas, but I haven't found one that is solid across the board (no pun intended)... I would also look into the Roland Fantom series. It came out after the Alesis QS series, and it seemed to be going for the same thing. I play with the Fantoms every time I go in the stores. They seem great as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stroehmann Showman Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Actually, I just reread your post. You're not looking for Alesis/Fantom. Nevermind. You can do better if you're just looking for piano, organ, and harpsichord... I'll go away now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchy Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Hi, Call me a noob to these forums. But I must add that the Fantom X Series really kick some serious arse. My mate has one and we're still learning all the features of it. - It almost has TOO many features to handle. They're pricy though. I'm looking at purchasing my first entry level keyboard now. And the JUNO-D Has really grabbed me. My uses for keyboard is soley for the sounds, for live performance in my band and multi track recording (Making Loops with ACID Pro 6) at home. I've looked at many keybaord's, but the Juno seems to have the reasonably priced and good general assortment of tweakable sounds on offer. - From reading other forums I realise how irrating the label of Juno D is to the older generations. But I'm only 17 and new to this industry, and it's really grabbed my attention. -Dutch- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 After surfing around, I have pretty much determined that what I'm looking for doesn't exist out of the box. On the one hand, high-end sampling keyboards like the Kurzweil PC1/2, Roland Fantom 8, Korg Triton Studio, have the power and polyphony (at a price). So if I up the ante into the $3k+ range there are some possibilities. Right now though the commercial ROM-based sample sets available for these are more mainstream orchestral, classic keyboard (meaning B3, Rhodes, etc.) and rave/hiphop dance sounds. There are small companies selling sample libraries in .wav file format. I presume I could load these files into one of these samplers' RAM memories and save to a diskette or flash memory (geez the technological aspect is rather complicated to a digital newbie). Another possibility is to use my PC (with a suitable sound board and MIDI/USB converters) with software samplers. Anyone have experience with the TASCAM Gigastudio? There are lots of custom sound libraries (including pipe organs) available in giga format. I also found something called Hauptwerks - a niche company in the UK that specializes in a pipe organ sampler/simulator (even going so far as to put real pipe organ controls - stops, pistons, - on the screen. Using the PC with MIDI controller keyboards offers a lot of flexibility. I've been reading on message boards about people putting together rigs with a piano-quality 88-key keyboard and 2-3 cheap 61-key keyboards for the organ (taken out of their cases and stacked into custom-built cabinets) and MIDI'ed into their PC's to do the processing work. Then, of course, you have to take your laptop with you if you ever perform on stage. I should have mentioned this is just for my own enjoyment. I don't expect to earn a living as a professional musician. I just want to continue to study piano and pipe organ and harpsichord for my own enjoyment - but hopefully without going baroque doing it. "Don't let your karma run over your dogma". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Bohdi, your list of possibilities gave me a headache. If you are new to the game and just want a few basic sounds and high polyphony, why not check out a few 88-note, DPs or synths. Preferably the synths as you would be able to tweak the sounds according to your needs at some point. I don't think it fair to say that what you want doesn't exist out of the box. Considering the gymnastics you mentioned above, I think you could find it in one synth vs a network of equipment. Test drive a few boards before you make a decision. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niacin Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Kurzweil PC1x. Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Bohdi, If an authentic experience is important to you, the bad news is that playing a modern general purpose synth or digital piano is not going to give you what you want. Even the actions on piano, pipe organ and harpsichord are significantly different. There ARE instruments out there that specialize in recreating classical or baroque instruments, but they are expensive: http://www.roland.com/products/com/C-80-AK/images/top_L.jpg Roland makes digi-harpsichords that contain a couple of positiv organ sounds. If your repertoire is going to include Bach however, that demands a much larger instrument. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 Originally posted by niacin: Kurzweil PC1x. I've looked into the PC1X/PC2X. I can't find anything about being able to load your own aftermarket sample libraries. Are Kurzweil's ROM blocks the only option for adding voices? Or can you load your own? Oh and mate, yeah - I reached that conclusion early on. I'm trying to be clear that I want to study all three (piano, organ and harpischord - not perform professionally). Maybe next lifetime. But I would like a piano that doesn't sound like Shroeder's toy, a harpsichord that doesn't sound like a $99 Casio I owned 30 years ago, and a decent collection of pipe organ sounds (more than just "church organ 1", "church organ 2". I could care less about voices like "astral trip", "rave noise", "harmonica", etc. And I'll accept a compromise keyboard - weighted and velocity sensitive with aftertouch - but not too heavy for non-piano sounds. And not to take up 200 square feet of floor space in my home. That's all I want. "Don't let your karma run over your dogma". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I just want to continue to study piano and pipe organ and harpsichord for my own enjoyment - but hopefully without going baroque doing it. groan No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Originally posted by Bodhi: But I would like a piano that doesn't sound like Shroeder's toy, a harpsichord that doesn't sound like a $99 Casio I owned 30 years ago, and a decent collection of pipe organ sounds (more than just "church organ 1", "church organ 2". I could care less about voices like "astral trip", "rave noise", "harmonica", etc. And I'll accept a compromise keyboard - weighted and velocity sensitive with aftertouch - but not too heavy for non-piano sounds. And not to take up 200 square feet of floor space in my home. That's all I want. My friend, you are going to have to design your own instrument. I know of nothing that meets your criteria. Good luck! Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 I thought all harpsichords sounded like a $99 Casio. Wasn't the clavinet supposed to be a harpsichord/spinet emulation? Turned out to be a fine instrument in its own right. Back to the program: Maybe you should consider a 76 or 88-note, semi-weighted MIDI controller. Either a software based sampler or a used hardware, 128-note polyphony, rackmount sampler i.e. Akai S5000/6000, E-mu 6400 Ultra, E5000, etc. There are plenty of sample libraries out there with the sounds you need. Still, YMMV. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodhi Posted September 4, 2006 Author Share Posted September 4, 2006 I've got a feeling that is the direction I need to go. Pick a keyboard with a good feel - that can handle piano okay, but also other keyboard instruments. Then get the sound module separately. If I go the software route - capitalizing on already owning the hardware/memory/processor etc. What are the externals I need. My laptop does not have firewire so I guess USB2.0 or PCMCIA card bus are my options for interfacing. Will the EMU 1616/1616M suffice do you think? Anyone have experience with software samplers? EMU X2? TASCAM Gigastudio? "Don't let your karma run over your dogma". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 A good simple combination might be an M-Audio Keystation Pro88 MIDI controller ($399) and Tascam Gigastudio ($499). I haven't heard much about the E-mu X2. Gigastudio is a popular software sampler. USB2.0 and the E-mu 1616 card should suffice. Check it out. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 Roland RD-700 or RD-700sx both have great pianos (RD-700sx is better) and both have excellent built-in Hammond simulators. This is much better than simply using waveforms sampled from a Hammond, which is what I think the Yamaha does. If you want to play Hammond organ the way a Hammond organ player does, you need a simulator and not just samples. Evidently the PC2x also has this. I'm looking forward to hearing it some time. I suspect that the Yamaha S90ES is better than the Roland if you want all sorts of synth sounds. At least, that's the impression I get from the marketing info from both companies. But I haven't had a chance to check this out in person. If you're interested in a laptop, you can go a lot cheaper than the EMU and go for a M-Audio Midisport UNO (one-piece MIDI / USB adaptor cable) and an M-Audio Transit ($80 USB-audio interface, stereo). You don't generally need all the channels of the EMU card for stage or studio use. However, if you want a very sophisticated rig with outboard hardware FX and stom-boxes on different software instruments, then a multi-channel card is necessary. I use a laptop live, using its built-in soundcard, with Native Instruments B4 organ and my own Rhodes soundfont. BTW, it is possible to create sounds and download them into a Kurz PC1x. Someone has done that (or is in the process of doing it) with my Rhodes soundfont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted September 4, 2006 Share Posted September 4, 2006 At this point, maybe the best recommendation would be to look into a computer + audio card + sampling software + a keyboard controller + a few sample CDs. This way, you'll have the best possible digital recreations of pianos, organs and harpsichords, and the keyboard action of your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cd8 Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Yep, if you've already got a computer, then MIDI controller and software is the way to go I think. Specially since the sounds you want aren't the typical ones and most keyboards won't excell in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffLearman Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 That would definitely be the cheapest way to go, and probably the best sound too. It's certainly not the simplest or most robust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepay Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Regarding the Nord, can't you get a Nord 73 (as in 73 keys) for about $1,700? Is that enough keys for you? Or, how about a Roland Juno-G? I have a Juno-D and while it does a decent job for me now, I would like to upgrade down the road. The Juno-G may be just what I'm looking for. I played one last week for the first time, an the thing is awesome. Steve (Stevie Ray) "Do the chickens have large talons?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 He wants pipe organ and harpsichord as well as piano, electric piano and Hammond. Unfortunately a pretty hard mix to come up with, especially since practical pipe organ playing requires at least a half dozen combinations. Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProfD Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 stepay, your suggestions are too modern. They make sense to a live or studio player. This request calls for some old school, baroque sounds i.e. piano, pipe organ, clavichord, harpsichord, spinet, virginal, etc., on a budget. PD "The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepay Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 Originally posted by ProfD: stepay, your suggestions are too modern. They make sense to a live or studio player. This request calls for some old school, baroque sounds i.e. piano, pipe organ, clavichord, harpsichord, spinet, virginal, etc., on a budget. Oh well. I consider the sounds from the Nord to be old school, but I guess I'm not old enough. Steve (Stevie Ray) "Do the chickens have large talons?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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