Joe P Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Hey Folks, Checked out a band Saturday at a place where we are trying to get the weekend gig, and I wanted to see the competition. Well, I was disappointed to find that I knew the band playing (should have checked first), they run the open mic where we auditioned and put in a good word for us to get the Thursday night gig, during which we completely smoked, by the way. Anyway, these guys are entertainers. They're very good, and their catalog is like 300 songs. They're very flexible, play all styles. But they're jokers. They're constantly cracking jokes and doing sight gags and the like. The singer is hilarious. They're very friendly, all smiles. Many times, patrons were singing along. the place was packed. So it occurred to me that my band is not like that. Our front man addresses the crowd and stuff, but we're more like "Hey, check out how we rip through this Stevie Ray tune", rather than doing Michael Stipe hand jive and goofy '60's dance imitations and stuff. They do a great job getting the crowd into it and we don't do that. We're more concerned about our musical performance than we are about engaging the crowd. Comments? What is your band like? Regards, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakit Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 For me musicianship IS entertaining. That "wedding band" stuff is preciscely why I hate to go to weddings. That's of course just my opinion. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe P Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 Carl, Yeah, for me it is too. Okay, I am no Keith Emerson, but our drummer and guitar player are pros. I just worry that we bore people. But I don't think the guys would want to start playing "YMCA", so what do we do? We have some numbers that people can dance to (Soutbound by the Allmans comes to mind), but nobody is singing along with our cover of Santana's version of "She's Not There", and that song rocks out. Regards, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKeys Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 As a Clapton Tribute, well, I've never seen Clapton doing dance steps. Our guitar player (slowhand look a like) once said if "I tried to do dance steps the audience would know I'm a fraud instantly." No show All musicianship. Jimmy Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others. Groucho NEW BAND CHECK THEM OUT www.steveowensandsummertime.com www.jimmyweaver.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrafon Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 This is a dispute we've had at a local forum we have around here. Many folks insist that, to "make it", you have to be entertaining (aside from being musically entertaining). Unfortunately, they may be right. Gimmicky bands do ok. Otherwise, its hard to get people to come see you. That being said, I am a musician for the sake of the musicianship and that is what I appreciate in a band or musician. I don't mind a band being entertaining provided they are also good musicians. I guess that would make the show twice as good. Take Phish for example. Those goof balls used to jump up and down on trampolines while playing. Musically essential? Probably not. Entertaining? Yep. The fact of the matter is that the "masses" can be entertained by a cymbal crashing wind-up monkey (sorry to any who may be offended by any comments concerning wind-up monkeys, cymbals, or the masses (no reference to religion intended)) and they buy into that stuff. Years ago, we had a debate with a former bassist who insisted we all had to dress nicely, etc., etc., etc. Now, I understand that if you are playing corporate gigs, weddings, etc., appearance is important. But, we play clubs. Clubs in upstate NY at that. Fancy isn't in the dictionary. Maybe I'm wrong, but in this type of market, I don't think appearances matter. If you are entertaining the people (one way or another), they are happy. I think its a chicken or the egg thing. Bottom line is do what makes you happy if you can get away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 If the music isn't there you've got nothing, but I can't stand a band on stage that isn't doing anything. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If I want to hear music while watching people not move I'll put on headphones and look at the album cover. If I go to a live show, I'd like it to be... alive? "...Keytar in a heavy metal band is nothing more than window dressing" - Sven Golly Cursed Eternity - My Band Dick Ward - My Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Loving Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Well it's better just to be yourself. If you are having a good time, chances it will show, and rub off on the audience. "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botch. Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 At least a couple of us in my band are always striving to improve our musicianship, but if it weren't for our entertainment value we'd be sitting at home a lot. I see nothing wrong with pushing for both. Botch "Eccentric language often is symptomatic of peculiar thinking" - George Will www.puddlestone.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Originally posted by daviel: Well it's better just to be yourself. If you are having a good time, chances it will show, and rub off on the audience. I agree whole heartedly. As musicians, musicianship is entertainment enough for us. As far as keeping the non-musicians interested, just letting your personality show through when you're on stage, whether it's your physical presence while playing, onstage banter between songs, wearing the bras on your head after they throw them at you, etc should be plenty entertaining for anybody. If you're going to do gimmicks, make them extentions of your own original personality (like those goofballs Phish on their trampolines. BTW Anybody here get to see them on NYE some years ago when they rode around MSG in a giant hot dog while playing?) One song we like to do is "ham and eggs" by A Tribe Called Quest. Sort of a gimmicky song, but a great way to show our personalities and interact with the audience (especially towards the end of the night.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe P Posted February 21, 2006 Author Share Posted February 21, 2006 Thanks for the input, folks. The guys and I, well, we're all kind of introverted so we won't be strutting around like roosters on acid. We wouldn't be opposed to having a good singer do that for us, though. Regards, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrafon Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Having someone with some good stage presence is a valuable thing. We aren't particularly extroverted either, but we definitely be ourselves - goofballs that we are - cracking stupid jokes and the like. Just bring the audience in with you. I think "personalizing" the audience (making them feel part of the band, so to speak) goes a long way. Most importantly, just keep it fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Originally posted by garrafon: I think "personalizing" the audience (making them feel part of the band, so to speak) goes a long way. Our singer has great stage presence and is really good at getting people out dancing and involved. "Making the audience feel like they're a part of the show" is his entire philosophy on fronting a band. Unfortunately, that is an innate talent, and few people just have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Originally posted by garrafon: I think "personalizing" the audience (making them feel part of the band, so to speak) goes a long way. Our singer has great stage presence and is really good at getting people out dancing and involved. "Making the audience feel like they're a part of the show" is his entire philosophy on fronting a band. About one third of our show is completely unplanned, where the band will just start playing something spontaneous, and John will just freestyle, usually about something going on in the bar, a hot girl on the floor, current event..type of things, the city we're in, whatever. People LOVE it. Unfortunately, that is an innate talent, and few people just have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krakit Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 For the real answer, turn to Frank Zappa. He wrote the lyric "they came to look, but not to listen", but as someone that went to his fair share of FZ shows, Zappa was to me, the quintessential showman. Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I think "personalizing" the audience (making them feel part of the band, so to speak) goes a long way.You know, people think there are only 5 members of Spinal Tap, but they're wrong. Hey, hey! This is where you're supposed to turn the house lights up so we can tell the bleedin' audience that their the 6th bloody member of the band! "...Keytar in a heavy metal band is nothing more than window dressing" - Sven Golly Cursed Eternity - My Band Dick Ward - My Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Back in the previous century, when I was in high school, I realized there were two kinds of performers - Show Biz (cock your head back, thrust your left hand forward and your right hand back and speak with your best FM voice) ... and the rest, those who just practiced, performed well and stayed in the background out of the limelight. I always identified with the latter group. I have since learned that whether or not you feel like playing, try at least to look like you enjoy playing; folks are paying good money and you should always look like you're enjoying yourself. No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Horne: ...try at least to look like you enjoy playing; folks are paying good money and you should always look like you're enjoying yourself. That ain't workin' that's the way you do it Money for nothin' and chicks for free Don "Yes, on occasion I do talk to myself, sometimes I need an expert's opinion." Alesis DG8, ARP(Korg)Odyssey Mk.1, Roland JU-06 & Keystation61. Stratocaster if I get tired of sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Ward MP Hall of Fame Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Man, chicks here ain't free, gimme some! "...Keytar in a heavy metal band is nothing more than window dressing" - Sven Golly Cursed Eternity - My Band Dick Ward - My Me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RABid Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Originally posted by Dave Horne: ... I have since learned that whether or not you feel like playing, try at least to look like you enjoy playing; folks are paying good money and you should always look like you're enjoying yourself. Yep, it used to bother me that bands with less talent were getting better jobs because of personality. Then I joined the other side and the money was nice. An easy out is to hire a singer with good personality. Robert This post edited for speling. My Sweetwater Gear Exchange Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Originally posted by Dick Ward (Alias: Mr. Pretentious): Man, chicks here ain't free, gimme some! Dude, with the music you play, you should be dripping with them. How can a hormone laden female ever turn down a metal head? Don P.S. Like the CD a lot. Listen to it when I am stuck in traffic. Sort of gives me that 'extra' road rage. Don "Yes, on occasion I do talk to myself, sometimes I need an expert's opinion." Alesis DG8, ARP(Korg)Odyssey Mk.1, Roland JU-06 & Keystation61. Stratocaster if I get tired of sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trill Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Originally posted by Dick Ward What do you call a metalhead without a girlfriend? Homeless Man, chicks here ain't free, gimme some! Dick do you need a place to stay dude , I know a lot of people in the Detroit area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodyMary Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 90% od the people dont hear what you play, they look at you and hear noise. (especially when you're heavy metal and the local sound crew isn't the best) So all you've gotta do is to look and feel like true rock stars, with the show and the attitude. Music-wise - just make sure the drummer keeps the rythm steady and singer isn't too bad. Then - because most people cant tell the difference between nice music and genious music, they tell their friends you're super cool because they saw that you act like Heavy Metal God, and they actually dont care whether your solo is played clearly or is your bass guitar in tune. Stage: MOX6, V-machine, and Roland AX7 Rolls PM351 for IEMs. Home/recording: Roland FP4, a few guitars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phred Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 True story. Many years ago my ex and I went to see a good local blues band. Guitar, Bass, Drums, B3 clone (all sang). The guitar player took most of the solos, but a few were done on the B3. After the show, I told her that I liked the keyboard player's style quite a bit. She told me that she wished he had at least done one solo so she could hear him better... I told her that, he did a few. She got embarassed... Later she confessed that she realized that the main guitar player didn't do all the solos, but thought that the other ones were done by (get this) the other guitar player. She meant the bass player. I saw them again a couple years later and noticed that the keys player was basically perfectly still. Even when ripping off great solos... I'm just saying', everyone that confuses correlation with causation eventually ends up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 For me, it's mainly jazz or sessions these days, so no show involved. But during the past decade, I've been lucky to find myself on a few big rock stages, and I must admit that I enjoyed letting the most extroverted part of myself to take over. I haven't done anything Emersonian, you understand - just playing standing up, doing little dances around my rig, using a strap-on controller, and generally grooving with the music. The fact that the music was *really* smoking, and the musicians were first-rate, did help as well. Not only I did enjoy doing that, but I miss it quite a bit now. Burning in front of a big, excited crowd is a peculiar kind of satisfaction, not entirely musical or artistic perhaps, but if you can do that by playing your music and not diluting down things to achieve that success, it's an unique emotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglow Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I feel if people are investing their hard-earned time and money to come see my band play, have a good time, try to forget about the hassles of life for a while, etc., I dont think they want to see us standing on stage like cardboard cut-outs.....they can get a similar experience from a juke box. So until I have the ability to captivate folks all night solely with my keyboard playing (never happen....), I feel obligated to try to entertain them on as many levels as I can. Of course, this sort of thing can be overdone....and it certainly shouldn't compromise one's performance......I think the key is balance. "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kad Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 I would say that WE are somewhere in between. We (me in particular) are very anal about the music being as perfect as possible, but we also try to be as fun and entertaining as we can. For example, we spend a great deal of time and effort creating set lists that flow well and keep things moving... Kirk Reality is like the sun - you can block it out for a time but it ain't goin' away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Pierce Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 For me it sort of depends on the band. If you're playing original music, then that's one thing. It's nice to see people get into what they're playing, but it's OK if it's pretty introverted, especially if that fits the music. On the other hand, if you're in a cover band -- you gotta put on a show. It doesn't necessarily have to be a humorous show, but it's gotta be something more than "just the music". Because hey -- it's not your music! If you play cover tunes, especially more or less "just like the record", and don't do anything more? Well, you might as well just be a jukebox. And guess what, a DJ will happily take your gig for half your money. --Dave Make my funk the P-funk. I wants to get funked up. My Funk/Jam originals project: http://www.thefunkery.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanL Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 Our band is no show and all go and that's carried us for years and years. People know a good band when they see one. I'm not saying we're a bunch of stiffs on stage- we have a good time and I think the crowd can pick up on that pretty easy- but we're not jumping all over the place. One of us might throw out our back if we did that. We've always let the music speak for itself, but when you are putting your passion into your playing, sometimes thats show enough. I think if you are doing the top40 or original scene then a show is important, but for roots rock/psychedelic/blues type of acts like ours, it's more about the music than what people look like or act like on the stage. Live: Korg Kronos 2 88, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1 Toys: Roland FA08, Novation Ultranova, Moog LP, Roland SP-404SX, Roland JX10,Emu MK6 www.bksband.com www.echoesrocks.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvoryPlayer Posted February 24, 2006 Share Posted February 24, 2006 As for musicianship to entertainment,I think both should go hand in hand.I'm in a semi-virgin band and doing openers to get out and play.We've got this guitarist who thought it'd be funny to start Takin' Care of Business with some riff from Bad Company after we had announced BTO.None of us knew he was going to pull that lil' gag and it went off really well with myself telling the crowd we were posting an ad for a new guitar player tomorrow.We found that if we had a decent interaction with the crowd,they enjoyed us more. Funny thing about this though,the band(very established) we were opening for,many years of classic rock n roll and play very well I might ad,do not do this kind of stuff and the result was that we had a full bar when we started and finished,by the time these guys were done with their first set,over half the bar left for a more entertaining band across the street.I also found out that 20-30 of those patrons wanted to know when we were going to play that bar again because the music rocked and the entertainment was good. I'm going for the play the crowd thingy and go from there!!!!! Currently abusing Yamaha DGX-200,Roland Juno 1,Juno D,AX-1 with a GK 1001 RB II Amp and GK 210/115 cabs for the major sound element! http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f191/IvoryPlayer/barry1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe P Posted February 24, 2006 Author Share Posted February 24, 2006 Hey Folks, Thanks for all the replies! Mr. Ivory, welcome to the Forum. We have rehearsal tonight, so I'll bring it up. We do some musical gimmicks. For instance we end "I Shot the Sheriff" with the "Sunshine of Your Love" lick; we did the Dregs Medley which bounces around from Mississippi Queen to Freebird, to My Sharona to Gimme Some Lovin'. We used to do "I Ain't Drunk (I'm just drinkin')". But we can definitely work some more sutff in there. Thanks again, all. Regards, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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