Silly queston . . . how much do you play with just one hand in a band?

[shniggens]

This may be a dead-end question since most of you have multiple keyboards in your setups. I only have one keyboard.

 

You see, I'm used to writing my songs on piano. I'm used to PLAYING my songs on piano. I'm used to playing with BOTH HANDS!

 

I have just recently hooked up with a guitar player that has ALOT of nice songs. He plays mostly acoustic strumming style.

 

Of course, he just wants mostly color and padding on his songs. But I'm not used to that. Even when I'm padding, I always want to play something with my left hand. It's crazy! I can't be lazy!

 

He said to me - "Most good keyboard players I've played with just sit there, and every now and then play something with one hand."

 

Hmmmmmm . . . It's gonna be hard for a piano playing fool like me!

 

Maybe on my songs, I'll just ask him to tune his guitar while I'm playing. Most guitarists I've played with tune their guitar alot.

[C.J. Lewis]

1. I struggled with this dynamic for quite a while being a classical pianist in a previous life. You have to be very aware of what every other member of the band is doing, almost to the point of being just a listener. In this way, I discovered things that I hadn't even heard before.

 

2. It all comes down to frequencies -- and if you're playing all over someone else's, both of you get lost in the mix. Guitar and bass especially have this problem with keyboard players because pianists play all over their range as a rule.

 

3. It can't become an ego thing -- you have to find ways to be just as creative with one hand as you are with two. I know it's going to be hard, but certainly not as hard as you think. If you think of your stage mix as spaghetti sauce (e.g. -- if you put too much *whatever* in it, it's going to taste wrong). Same concept here -- find the balance of what sounds good and stick with that.

 

P.S. -- Oh, and also -- don't get tomato sauce on your keyboard.

 

Hope this helps!

[1rocky]

Most of the band stuff is played with single notes but the sounds i program are pretty thick and if i play chords it muddies up everything

[nursers]

Not in a band at present but yeah found a lot of what I played was right hand only.

[Jeff Klopmeyer]

If you're playing with a bass player (and depending on the type of music you do), you're going to be conflicting with his/her part if you're being busy on your left hand. And again depending on the music, you need to watch out for stepping into the guitarist's zone with your right.

 

 

The best music allows for parts to live on their own, with breathing space for all the instrumentation. One of the most common crimes committed by inexperienced band members is overplaying, until they learn to get more by playing less.

 

Our moderator dB is a good example. When he's playing solo, he's shredding up the entire keyboard. When I've jammed with him and seen him play with others, it's likely to see him jump in for a little stab here, a run there. Same with Steve LeBlanc and other good keyboardists with whom I've had the pleasure of playing.

 

- Jeff

[Rick Hoffman]

Its funny but most of what was said here is exactly how I play in my band situation. I'm primarily the bass player but I wanted to add a Deep Purple/Led Zep type element.

 

I play with my right hand mostly, rarely using my left unless I'm sustaining notes ( root, 4th, what have you) and I'll play a melody or chords or arpeggios or whatever with my right hand. Sometimes I'll try and play two handed and my face contorts and I really have to concentrate. I'm sure its funny to watch.

 

I try to get practice in, finger exercises, playing w/ two hands and I'll listen and actually try to learn some Zep.

[burningbusch]

If you're talking about a recording situation where you're laying down a simple pad that's supposed to fit somewhere in the mix, yes then frequently a simple three or four note chord might absolutely be the best thing to play. In those cases I like to ride the filter cutoff or volume knob with my left hand to add very subtle dynamic changes as is appropriate. Same could be with a B3 part where you would ride wolume with the pedal (obviously) and toggle the Leslie, not even letting it get up to full speed. Often times background string parts only neeed one or two notes. Again use you other hand to control volume or tone to add life what you're playing.

 

If it's just you and him in more of a live setting I can't see how playing two handed chords is going to conflict with him. It might be helpful to learn the exact notes of the standard guitar voicings (there is a lot of doubling going on).

 

Busch.

[fisheye]

Especially when the left hand includes the bassnotes, the left hand might be helping your brain to think of things for your right hand: the left hand might be working as some sort of memory helping tool.

 

To get that out of your system will take a while. I had to learn to not rely on the left hand when I started to play jazz in groups. And nowadays I see beginners struggling with the same thing.

 

Once the left hand is freed of this brain-assisting task, you can use it for whatever you want (theoretically) and it will stop in irritating other players, since you will be using it more musically. And that includes not using it if it's not musical to do so. Your ears will tell.

 

I tend to play only left hand or only right hand or switch them all the time (for fun) if there are only a few notes that I want to play. I'm now trying to swing in four with the left hand (like good jazz guitarists do) and add things at will with the right hand. Not easy, since the left hand has to play nice lines, otherwise it will irritate.

[marino]

Hey, I'd love to work with that guitar player for a change! In most bands, or pop/rock acts I've played in, I've had both my hands constantly busy. It's not a matter of intruding in the bassist's range; I usually had multiple splits, or multiple keyboards. They always asked me to play a piano part, a nice pad, an oboe countermelody, high strings, and the Hammond lick - all at the same time! Plus I had to work the pedals, controllers, patch changes... Actually, someone asking me to use one hand would be welcome!

 

More seriously, if asked to play simple comps, I'd try open position chords - maybe just three-note voicings, but a bit spreaded along the keys. Maybe with a simple countermelody on top... a good way to give your other hand something to do.

[Rick Hoffman]

Yes I like the counter melody idea, so long as it doesn't walk all over the main song or anyone else's ego.

 

The key is well placed and well chosen notes, with feel, and try to be on the same plane as everyone else. At least thats my approach. When I'm playing keys in a band-jam situation, my best attribute is my rhythm feel as a bassist, so I try to take advantage of that.

 

So I rarely use both hands because I simply can't, unless I practice. And I practice each hand alone several times before I try them together, and always with a metronome...I guess if I practiced everyday I could play Beethoven but what for? I just wanna rock.

 

I'll use my left hand for smoking a cigarette or whatever.

[ewall08530]

Two things come to mind that may or may not help.

 

1. Sometimes the spaces you put between the notes played are every bit as effective and musical as the notes themselves. Try to play more sparingly while listening closely to the guitarist.

 

2. It may help to EQ ur keys so that you take some of the bottom off. Played by itself it may sound thin to you but it might blend in your mix better with the guitar. There is a band that I work with regularly whose bass player used to mention that what I was doing with my left hand was washing out his bass notes, to his ears anyway.

I've taken to thining out my piano sound a bit on stage and really cutting back on what I'm doing in the lower range unless I know it's a part where he is laying out or working higher up the neck.

[Tusker]

Playing in a band ... I mostly hold down a note or two. Mostly the left hand work is what Botch mentioned, toggling leslie on-off, changing filter cutoff, toggling in some different timbres.

 

Sometimes I have both hands but it's often unison lines.

 

Playing with an acoustic guitarist, you might considering playing a bass line with the left hand while doing pads and occasional stabs and tinkles with the right. You can play more notes if you keep the timbres simple and clean. Or vice versa.

 

Best,

 

Jerry

[fisheye]

Originally posted by marino:

They always asked me to play a piano part, a nice pad, an oboe countermelody, high strings, and the Hammond lick - all at the same time!

That's sick!

 

I'd say a hammond can do all paddings and string-replacements and a piano can play all oboe melodies. No unnatural things needed. But I know people ask keyboardists to play all kinds of non-key instruments anyway.

 

I simply don't have non-key instruments in my rig. Makes live easier.

[niacin]

Hey,

yeh playing pop I can sympathise with Marino - I typically had 3- or 4-way splits (now where does that string split end ... oh bugger ... mmm did I put that brass hit in the top octave or down the bottom ...). But it depends very much upon the style of music. Playing in my funk band, aside from a little clav and rhodes comping, I only have one hand on the keyboard at a time. The other is working the wheels or tweaking the knobs I have subbing as drawbars. I recently picked up an old KX-5 strap-on-like-a-guitar keyboard off ebay and can do three-quarters of our repertoire on it cause I only need one hand on the keyboard (I can actually sling it really low and play two-handed but its not entirely comfortable). You maybe need to stop thinking like a piano player and start getting into hammond and synth type sounds and using the wheels/knobs/sliders/whatever your keyboard has to change the timbre during the song. Listen to Gregg Rolie on Santana's Caravanserai or anything of Bruce Katz or John Medeski to hear what you can do with drawbars. For synths it's usually the filter or resonance assigned to the mod wheel or a knob/slider. Get away from the dial-up-a-preset-and-play way of thinking and get your sounds evolving.

Cheers,

Peter

[RABid]

Have things changed that much since I stopped playing live? I used two hands and wished for a third. There is a lot more to playing than just doubling a bass part while pounding out block chords. At least, there used to be.

 

Robert

[Rick Hoffman]

Quoted by Ewall:

 

"1. Sometimes the spaces you put between the notes played are every bit as effective and musical as the notes themselves. Try to play more sparingly while listening closely to the guitarist."

 

Indeed, my friend. This is my approach to the keys. Years of bass playing taught me this well. How I play might vary though, if I'm playing with a lead-type guitarist or a rhythm guitarist, as far as what timbre I'm in and what register and whether I do more leads or accompaniment. This is how I play in bands where I'm only on keys and there's a bassplayer, I avoid my left hand altogether unless I'm helping my right hand play something.

 

In bands where I play both keys and bass, when I'm on keys I'm laying out on bass, essentially, so sometimes I wish I had foot pedals to hold down roots and 3rds, 4ths, etc. while I'm playing something with my left hand. So in more of a Manzerek role I use my left hand mostly and my right hand will do some accents and try not to walk all over the guitar player.

 

Although I think there's a way to pitch shift my keys and split the keyboard so I have the real low octaves to my left and a nice pitched timbre to my right...

[Andym0908]

I'm usually playing pads or busy right-handed piano parts; with my left I'm trying to stop the damper pedal from slipping or adjusting my seat!!

[kad]

It all depends on the needs of the tune. There are two keyboard players in my band, and we both have multi-tier rigs. Sometimes both of us are burnin' with both hands and other times one of us is holding a single note while sipping a Bud Light with the other hand.

 

Kirk

[shniggens]

{sniff} Man, I love this place!

 

 

 

I'm curious . . . when playing another person's song (from your band) . . . when they introduce them to you, do they usually have a pad or synth sound in mind, or do they leave it up to you to come up with the textures.

 

Same for the music . . . do they ever hint at what they want to hear musically . . . ie, runs, pads, "play me a pentatonic run here", "play a Floyd Kramer lick here", etc . . .

 

I understand that it's nice to put your own artistic stamp on things, but it's also nice to get some "coaching", or at least some insight to what they want to hear on their song.

 

Y'know?

[Rick K.]

Originally posted by Jeff Da Weasel:

And again depending on the music, you need to watch out for stepping into the guitarist's zone with your right.

 

- Jeff

...spoken like a true guitar player!

[Dave Horne]

I've been in a similar situation regarding playing with guitar players. (I worked with a absolute first rate guitarist by the name of James Chirillo who played on at least one Woody Allen film.)

 

We worked together in the same big band for a number of years and the situation of when to play and when not to play was a daily occurrence. We just agreed to look and nod at each other or agree in advance when to play and when not to play. When backing soloists in the band, we would take take turns or some guys wanted a guitar behind them while others wanted a piano behind them.

 

Less is usually more. Rarely are musicians accused of underplaying, the opposite is usually the case.

 

Bottom line - just talk to each other. You're not getting paid by the note, right? As long as you both are happy and the music sounds good, everyone should be happy.

[cnegrad]

shniggens,

 

It depends on the circumstances. Sometimes the songwriter/artist knows exactly what they want, and other times they're open to outside help. If I'm a "hired gun" at a recording session, I have to be ready for either approach, or more often, a combination of the two.

[JeffLearman]

I'll echo a few things mentioned above:

 

If it's a duet, playing simple bass parts using the right kind of sound should sound great and reinforce his playing.

 

If he's not happy, it's probably because you're playing left-hand chords (like a jazz pianist), and interfering somehow -- either rhythmically or using up the same frequency spectrum. Learn to stay out of his space, and to play parts that support his playing with your left hand while playing things that augment it with your right.

 

And Dave is absolutely right -- knowing what to leave out is critical. Most musicians play way too many notes. (I have to work on that myself!) Listen to some Little Feat grooves. Count the hands and divide by the number of notes, and notice how little everyone's playing! Yet these grooves don't the least bit minimal.

 

I frequently play one-handed in a full-band setup, especially with two guitars. When playing Hammond sounds, my left hand is often busy changing controls or grabbing a drink.

 

When playing piano or Rhodes, I often use my left hand to play rhythmic bass parts. In this case, I pay careful attention to what the bass player's doing, and make sure my part grooves well that. I also usually have the bottom end EQ'd so that I'm not going nearly as deep, and I also make sure it's not interfering with the guitar parts -- I'll lay back on it if they're playing low notes.

 

As always, the most important part about playing is listening -- not just to the other players, but to the resulting whole sound.

 

And one thing to watch out for. If other keyboard players only "noodled" to his playing, it might be because his meter is bad, and that's a defense against sounding silly. If you're sure his meter is good, never mind. If you're not, pay attention, and if it's bad, find another partner (or work on it with him if he's coachable).

 

Another important thing is to work with him and find out what works and what doesn't in his mind, during practice. Make it clear you're up to being coached and cooperative, and find out what his issues and limits are. If you can't be happy limiting yourself to what he wants, best to find that out right away and move on. Artistic clashes like this rarely lead to any good!

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by shniggens:

This may be a dead-end question since most of you have multiple keyboards in your setups. I only have one keyboard.

 

You see, I'm used to writing my songs on piano. I'm used to PLAYING my songs on piano. I'm used to playing with BOTH HANDS!

 

As you can see it was a really good question. Getting to the point of internalizing that "less is more" is hard.

 

But a more immediate issue is that your left hand is a source of the rythm and its hard to be in the pocket when your left hand is not busy. Obviously this can be practiced - and tapping your foot also helps.

 

Some players use both hands to play a treble part. You can cover two + octaves easily that way. The players I see doing this locally are just playing stock licks, which makes their work rather uninteresting, but no doubt with work you can make it real.

[coyote]

The bassist in my band digs it when I "help out" on some of the set bass lines & riffs. He's asked me for that in songs such as King Crimson's 'Dinosaur', and of course we do it on the ELP tunes. It's very powerful. Those instances aside, I try to clear out of his sonic landscape. One technique is to set the lower manual of the Hammond an octave higher than usual; your left hand is then playing generally an octave higher than the bassist so it doesn't interfere.

 

In any event, I rarely find a hand unoccupied. There's always either another part to play or knobs to dial or drawbars to pull or presets to change....

[loxley11]

Thanks, Shniggens!

 

I was moments from asking that same question myself. After playing classical and jazz for 13 years, when I joined a local group, I felt so stupid with my left hand just sitting on my lap.

 

But I like what Busch said a lot. With a synth, the front panel is as much a part of the instrument as the keyboard. Plus, this sounds like the kind of guy who doesn't want his songs too busy. Watch keyboard players on any DVD concerts and see what they actually do.

 

If you're just going the piano (or EP route), I have been amazed at how effective a simple bass note or octave sounds under a chord (since it sounds like you don't have a bass player). You will feel like an idiot at first, but trust me, you and the guitarist will like the sound better. For busier parts, just try octaves and fifths in the bass, but focus on the rhythm rather than playing complex lines.

 

As for whose ideas govern your part, I'd say this: Whoever writes a song probably has some idea of what the finished product should sound like. If he does, then try to follow it. If he says nothing, then do whatever you think sounds best. If he says "just play some fills on the high end, I'd just do that only"

 

Besides, if you really feel uncomfortable with just one hand, you can always take up drinking or smoking

 

Best of Luck

Drew

[shniggens]

Originally posted by loxley11:

Besides, if you really feel uncomfortable with just one hand, you can always take up drinking or smoking

 

Best of Luck

Drew

What do you mean "take up"?

 

Great responses people! Thanks! I've learned alot!

 

Now to get my synth sounds in order . . .

[Byrdman]

Originally posted by loxley11:

(since it sounds like you don't have a bass player).

Of course, if you don't have a bass player, what does your guitarist have against you playing bass lines?

 

Mind you, playing bass lines as well as a bass player (who did not have to worry about anything else) takes a lot of work, but it is very rewarding when it comes together.

 

BTW, there is another route if you are the bandlead - make your bass player move up and play in the tenor. This also works when there's a Bari sax in the band - the Bari can take the bass and the bass player can move higher. When the bass is up high though, they should be syncopating, playing against what is going on beneath them and driving it forward. It takes an advanced bass player to do that.

 

You will hear both these approaches in New Orleans R&B.

[Michelle ggurl]

Good perspectives, here. As someone who spends most of her musical life collaborating with guitarists on original material it seems, I've noticed some variance among situations. My thoughts:

 

1. really depends on the band. I just saw a Boz Scaggs live DVD. He plays R&B/pop, right? Well, the dude had 2 keyboard players, PLUS a horn section (2 players), PLUS 2 backing vox, PLUS a percussionist, in addition to the bass, kit drums, and guitar. It sounded really full, but nothing got in the way. The keyboardists were both busy, but not overly so. I'd say two keyboard hands at least were playing at any given moment. SO, that's an example of playing the right thing; more orchestrated is not necessarily the same as more busy.

 

Conversely, if you're playing harder rock like Van Halen or something and the keys are really just some kind of synth drone, melody line (like in Rush "Subdivisions", or a specific color/pad part, you can get away with less. It seems to be more about the fatness of a sound than lots of subtle layering in some music.

 

2. "most good keyboardists play with one hand." Mm ... kay. Not really, I don't think. Again, depends on voicings you're using, if EP or piano, or what orchestration you're doing. In rock bands, I will often play the meat of what needs doing in one hand, and play occasional fills or open up a voicing and use two hands to do that. Since this guy is acoustic and seems to favor sparse, a style to check out might be country. If you listen to (or better, watch) a DVD of piano players in that music, they're not necessarily playing with just one hand. But there is a style of chording and filling they're doing that sounds simple and unobtrusive, but tasty.

 

3. Regardless of anything else, if someone else is in charge and they don't like what you're doing, and they have a clear idea of what they want (ie, one hand) sometimes you just gotta do that. This guy may not know how fuller playing may help his music ... but unless it's gelling, his exposure to 2-fisted comping isn't going to convince him to give you latitude to try it. You can tell him you'd like to experiment with that a bit if you think he'd be amenable and if you really think it could add something.

[Jeff Irok]

I didn't read EVERY post in this thread, so I might be repeating something someone all ready said (Sorry - I usually read all posts, but I don't have much time this morning...)

 

I like to keep my left hand busy, as long as I don't conflict with anybody' else's part. It's entirely possible to play lower notes with the left hand and not to conflict, especially when the notes aren't TOO low. I will often play with the left hand in the octave just under middle C. But I won't use my second hand just to use it...It needs to be able to add something. During the songs I only use one hand, I'll often play the part with my left hand and do crazy stuff with my right, like take pictures...

 

I find that when I play certain songs, like something from Steely Dan, sometimes much of the chording is so complex that I do it with 2 hands, even though the note range is within a handful of notes. "Peg" comes to mind. I suppose I could do it with one hand, and have my second hand do something else, but I don't know if I could find another part to fit in. Anyway, I'm pretty content doing it the way I do it.