Taylor Swift's Instagram Post

[Anderton]

Yup, a musician makes front-page news!

 

You've probably all heard about it by now, so there's no need to summarize it. Nor do I have any interest in endorsing anyone in this forum, nor do I want anyone else to do so.

 

BUT I do agree wholeheartedly with the following, which bears repeating: "I’ve done my research, and I’ve made my choice. Your research is all yours to do, and the choice is yours to make."

 

And that's all the political content we need to guide us through the coming couple of months. From the mouth of a musician, no less.

 

(If you're looking for recommendations on research, my mainstays are Reuters, local news & opinion, the AP,  Fox, MSNBC, Deutsche Welle, the BBC, and Wion. I think that mixture provides a decent way to triangulate on events.)

[analogika]

14 hours ago, Anderton said:

Reuters, local news & opinion, the AP,  Fox, MSNBC, Deutsche Welle, the BBC, and Wion

 

That's a pretty good selection. 

I'm extremely and increasingly wary of (and annoyed at) the inability/unwillingness of so many (i.e. most) modern "news" outlets to clearly delineate reporting from opinion. 

News don't get clicks unless they get someone all riled up, and clicks is everything to many… 

[Stokely]

The response by Musk was nauseating, even for him.
 

Quote

Fine Taylor … you win … I will give you a child and guard your cats with my life

I'm currently driving my wife's Tesla and I feel like I need a disclaimer bumper sticker on it, but Musk fanboys would probably key it.   I wouldn't have political bumper stickers in general in my area for the same reason.

Ugh.  Wish that software would go tits up.   Taylor Swift could probably nudge things in that direction by leaving, and who could blame her after that filth--though of course that affects her bottom line I'm sure.  I'm just glad I don't have a "brand".  If he sells, then I'll change my tune about Xitter.   Right now it's just a megaphone for one powerful sociopath to spread mayhem, and anyone on there is just supporting it.

I read that there are a bunch of advertisers that will be leaving, we'll see.  Perhaps that's a start.

I'm a space junkie from birth (dad worked for Nasa contractors most of his life), lived on the space coast---and it SUCKS that this disgusting creep has anything to do with Space X.   I certainly don't follow them like I otherwise would, though I don't wish them ill like I do Xitter.   I do think the military should be thinking long and hard about other options when it comes to Starlink and anything else he has his hands in.
 

[KenElevenShadows]

15 hours ago, Anderton said:

BUT I do agree wholeheartedly with the following, which bears repeating: "I’ve done my research, and I’ve made my choice. Your research is all yours to do, and the choice is yours to make."

 

And that's all the political content we need to guide us through the coming couple of months. From the mouth of a musician, no less.

 

(If you're looking for recommendations on research, my mainstays are Reuters, local news & opinion, the AP,  Fox, MSNBC, Deutsche Welle, the BBC, and Wion. I think that mixture provides a decent way to triangulate on events.)

 

That endorsement came, um, swiftly after the debate.

 

And that's about right. Do your research.

 

I like Reuters, BBC, AP, NPR, local news, and then a variety of other stuff depending on what the subject is. For science stuff, I frequently will read the white papers.

[Stokely]

I didn't watch the "debate" (seriously, it's a "debate" in name only) but I read that ABC fact-checked more than usual.

I can't imagine learning about policy from those two-minute-max zingfests, there are seriously better sources so but they involve this thing called "reading" which I hear is boring.   

I installed the ABC app on my phone, been looking for an alternative to Apple's "whoops you have to pay to read that, and that, and that" News that comes on my phone.   Glad to see that there was an attempt to stop utter horseshit from flying by without pushback so I'll try out their app.

Also a fan of NPR, Reuter's and Al Jazeera.

[Bill H.]

I usually  don't think celebrity endorsements mean all that much, but this case may be different. GSA reported that as of 3pm Wednesday 337,826 Taylor Swift fans have used her link to vote.gov, which instructs people in how to register to vote. 

 

My morning news starts with AP, then often goes to cbsnews.com - simply because it's a beautifully laid out website with a minimum of intrusive ads and pop-ups. 

[Stokely]

If Taylor Swift--and to be clear, I know zero of her tunes and very little about her--influences the election, it's an own goal by one of the parties.  They have gone out of their way to antagonize her and possibly by proxy her Swifties (and I'm counting Musk as part of that trolling effort, as he clearly now is aligned with one party.)

Do not poke the bear.

[analogika]

I hope this doesn't run afoul of the ban on political partisanship (I consider it a question of decency, not a political standpoint) : 
 

On 9/11/2024 at 2:12 PM, Stokely said:

The response by Musk was nauseating, even for him.
 

Quote

Fine Taylor … you win … I will give you a child and guard your cats with my life

 

Good lord, what an utter c**t he is. 

I know that the thought of this riling up people he "disagrees" with gives him and his fanboys a little stiffy, but Jesus Christ. 

[Tusker]

8 hours ago, Bill H. said:

I usually  don't think celebrity endorsements mean all that much, but this case may be different. GSA reported that as of 3pm Wednesday 337,826 Taylor Swift fans have used her link to vote.gov, which instructs people in how to register to vote. 

 

I really like your comment, which goes to the question of whether musical celebrities can influence politics? Can musicians mediate trust? Can musical tribes become political tribes? Trust has been mediated by different people over time. It used to be your doctor and your pastor. Then people trusted the newspaper editorial board. Now some people trust YouTube influencers.  So I will watch this development with interest. The rules are changing. Thanks.

[Tusker]

16 hours ago, Stokely said:

The response by Musk was nauseating, even for him.

 

He's acknowledged his Asbergers, which is often associated with damage to cognitive empathy. Empathy is a foundation of civilization. So it raises a legitimate question about what kinds of social darwinism we wish to encourage. I think I've stayed in ethics and the social sciences and hopefully not crossed into politics. I'll stop there.

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Tusker said:

He's acknowledged his Asbergers, which is often associated with damage to cognitive empathy. 

Damaged cognitive empathy = azzhole.  I like it.  Merriam-Webster needs to add that to the dictionary.🤣😎

[BMD]

When it comes to Elon Musk, it really does help if one has a sense of humour

[Thethirdapple]

1 hour ago, BMD said:

When it comes to Elon Musk, it really does help if one has a sense of humour

Exactly, he hasn’t any sense, humor or otherwise…

 

 

 

PEACE

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[analogika]

4 hours ago, Tusker said:

 

I really like your comment, which goes to the question of whether musical celebrities can influence politics? Can musicians mediate trust? Can musical tribes become political tribes? Trust has been mediated by different people over time. It used to be your doctor and your pastor. Then people trusted the newspaper editorial board. Now some people trust YouTube influencers.  So I will watch this development with interest. The rules are changing. Thanks.

 

Politics has been an integral part of musical identity at least since Woody Guthrie's time. 

(Not everybody's musical identity, obviously, but public figures have been using their stature to advance political positions probably for as long as music has existed.)

[ProfD]

3 minutes ago, analogika said:

Politics has been an integral part of musical identity at least since Woody Guthrie's time. 

Yep.  Politics were highly influential in music several decades ago. 

 

Here in the US, politics and religion have become a 3rd rail. That's why we refrain from discussing in public.😎

[Threadslayer]

4 hours ago, Tusker said:

Can musical tribes become political tribes?

I wonder what percentage of Taylor Swift's fan base is old enough to vote?

[Polychrest]

36 minutes ago, analogika said:

Politics has been an integral part of musical identity at least since Woody Guthrie's time. 

Longer than that.  Beethoven, initially an admirer of Napoleon Bonaparte’s democratizing initiatives, dedicated his third symphony to him—a political endorsement if there ever was one.  He later soured on him.

[Stokely]

53 minutes ago, Threadslayer said:

I wonder what percentage of Taylor Swift's fan base is old enough to vote?

Saw some discussion of this, she's 36 iirc and very likely most of her fanbase is comprised of adults.

As far as "he was just joking"....that's what you always hear when the asshats get in trouble or called out.  "I was just kidding."   

Certainly was hilarious to see him egging on riots in Britain recently.  He's got a long history of "joking" and he knows full well the power he has to get the dangerous crazies riled up.   Like Musk did with the UK riot tweets, and with his racist fear-mongering about immigrants.  Hilarious...  We all got a lesson in how that type of thing works with Jan 6.

[Bill H.]

I've been running weeknight karaoke shows for the last 20 years. I sometimes run into women who used to emotionally sing Teardrops On My Guitar when they were teens, and now have teenage kids of their own. Taylor Swift's fan base is quite broad, but the ones she seems to be talking to are those in their late teens to early 20s who have not yet voted because they've never registered to vote. Hence the link to the government website that instructs people on how to do it. 

[analogika]

1 hour ago, Threadslayer said:

I wonder what percentage of Taylor Swift's fan base is old enough to vote?

 

Pretty much all of them. 

Source: reddit, from 2022, so caveat emptor, but hey… 

[Jeff Leites]

So to summarize the chart above, they are mostly millennial, low income, democrat, white woman who live in the suburbs. 

[analogika]

31 minutes ago, Jeff Leites said:

So to summarize the chart above, they are mostly millennial, low income, democrat, white woman who live in the suburbs. 

 

I think "white suburban millennials and older" sums it up pretty nicely, at least for the U.S. 

[Stokely]

They continue to troll her, now with Eras-looking merchandise (which could be grounds for copyright infringement, not sure, but since when have they cared about that.)

Bold strategy Cotton, my own thought is that the first rule of getting out of a hole is to stop digging, but I'm sure the marketing pros know what they are doing (?)

No idea if any of this moves the needle a bit but it provides an interesting side story   

[Tusker]

6 hours ago, BMD said:

When it comes to Elon Musk, it really does help if one has a sense of humour

 

😅 Sure does bro. Thanks for sending this brilliantly funny bloke across the pond. As treasures go, he's only slightly behind British bangers. ❤️ 🙏

[Anderton]

5 hours ago, ProfD said:

Here in the US, politics and religion have become a 3rd rail. That's why we refrain from discussing in public.

 

Indeed, which is why I wanted to emphasize the nature of a musician having actual potential influence. How many millions of $ of ads does it take to equal one Taylor Swift endorsement?

 

In general, I'm not a fan of artists advocating for particular people or issues, because artists are often as uninformed as everyone else of the various nuances. But I think Taylor Swift handled it well: "I’ve done my research, and I’ve made my choice. Your research is all yours to do, and the choice is yours to make." Sure, she mentioned her preference earlier, but she closed with that.

 

I have many friends whose opinions I disagree with, but they see the world differently and so they form opinions that are different. Sometimes opinions are rooted in naivete and trusting sources they shouldn't trust, but the bottom line is I know hardcore right- and left-wingers who would give you the shirt off their backs, or help change a tire at 3 AM if you were stuck on the side of the road. 

 

18 hours ago, Stokely said:

Do not poke the bear.

 

I think you're on to something. I don't know if she would have made an endorsement if there hadn't been false/malicious AI saying she endorsed the other candidate. She comes close to saying that here:

 

Recently I was made aware that AI of ‘me’ falsely endorsing Donald Trump’s presidential run was posted to his site. It really conjured up my fears around AI, and the dangers of spreading misinformation. It brought me to the conclusion that I need to be very transparent about my actual plans for this election as a voter. The simplest way to combat misinformation is with the truth.

 

Again, I didn't post this thread to get into politics. I posted it to get into a discussion surrounding the side issues and implications of Taylor Swift getting involved. AI is certainly one of those side issues. It was big enough to get her to make a statement.

[ElmerJFudd]

 

https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart

 

I’ve long given up on MSNBC or Fox News to offer anything but severely biased views on the events of the day.  If you watched MSNBC throughout Trump’s term, you would have been under the impression that he could be dragged from the White House and sent to prison at any moment.  Or that Trump was broke.  They also pushed the idea that Trump’s January 6 mess included plans for a military coup (that’s a significant step beyond incitement to riot, dirty politics, questionable political strategies and legal challenges).  Their job was to make sure their viewers saw Trump’s term as a complete failure.  Get him out and turn DC true blue.  
 

If you’ve been watching Fox during Biden’s term you’d never know the inflation rate has been in a downward trend since 2022.  More so, you’d think that a Trump term would magically have avoided supply chain disruptions, covid-19, Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, the Israel/Hamas war.  He’d convince China to drop their ambitions to take Taiwan and make the US southern border airtight. Their job is to promote the idea that Trump is magic, the one and only person to make all things right - turn DC red red red.  
 

The popularity of “news” outlets like these is poison to the population.  Their tactics create a hostile atmosphere and cause us to forget that we are an established democracy that has gone through all the growing pains, tests, trials and tribulations.  Civics works, compromise works, democracy works if we don’t give up on it.  

[Stokely]

I watch zero of them.

I'll read articles from a bunch of them.  I find the on-air broadcasts to be nothing  but rile-up-the-viewer dumb fests.   Jon Stewart years ago went on "Crossfire" and tore them a new one, with their token "on the left" and "on the right" performance art, and I fully agree.  

I disagree quite a bit with the New York Times designation above--they are all over the map, and seem to be putting out some increasingly stupid content IMO.   

I didn't watch that "debate" but just read some write-ups on it.  Kudos to ABC for at least doing some amount of fact-checking--I'm all for doing that to any and all candidates in interviews or "debates".   Don't like it? Maybe stop lying and making shit up and stick to facts.  Amazing!

Back to the particular topic of Taylor Swift and celebrity endorsements...that's always been a point of contention.  A lot of people say "Just shut up and stay out of politics."   So is it admirable that someone who has made billions just sits back around their Scrooge McDuck pool full of money and stays out of things?   After all, they got theirs.     We certainly have plenty of billionaires that aren't really celebrities throwing their money into the ring to influence proceedings (Peter Thiel being a prime example) for their own benefit. 

[ElmerJFudd]

15 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I watch zero of them.

I'll read articles from a bunch of them.  I find the on-air broadcasts to be nothing  but rile-up-the-viewer dumb fests.   Jon Stewart years ago went on "Crossfire" and tore them a new one, with their token "on the left" and "on the right" performance art, and I fully agree.  

I disagree quite a bit with the New York Times designation above--they are all over the map, and seem to be putting out some increasingly stupid content IMO.   

I didn't watch that "debate" but just read some write-ups on it.  Kudos to ABC for at least doing some amount of fact-checking--I'm all for doing that to any and all candidates in interviews or "debates".   Don't like it? Maybe stop lying and making shit up and stick to facts.  Amazing!

Back to the particular topic of Taylor Swift and celebrity endorsements...that's always been a point of contention.  A lot of people say "Just shut up and stay out of politics."   So is it admirable that someone who has made billions just sits back around their Scrooge McDuck pool full of money and stays out of things?   After all, they got theirs.     We certainly have plenty of billionaires that aren't really celebrities throwing their money into the ring to influence proceedings (Peter Thiel being a prime example) for their own benefit. 

I am fine with any citizen that has had great success in their career having an opinion and sharing it.  Everyone has an opinion; they are not hard to find.   

[Bill H.]

I'd swap AP and Newsweek. AP seems pretty unbiased to me. I'm often clicking onto links to Newsweek because they're in Google News, and I'd hardly call them neutral. 

[Anderton]

7 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I’ve long given up on MSNBC or Fox News to offer anything but severely biased views on the events of the day.

 

That's exactly why I watch them. I know where the talking points are coming from, and what watchers of either one will say to me so I can set them straight    I also find that when you see either one twist the facts to their agendas, if you delete the twists, you can often get a good idea of the core of the story. For an example of the ART (Anderton Removal of Twists) process:

 

Fox: Bob flaunted his support of the hispanic invasion, by having chocolate cake served at his birthday. Why would he subject his guests to a political statement, by showcasing a food that originated in Mexico? I guess for Bob (or maybe it's Roberto?), it's all about drugs coming in through our porous borders - or have you conveniently forgotten that chocolate contains caffeine? Next time, honor America, show some patriotism, and serve apple pie.

MSNBC: Bob's environmental ignorance was on full display by having chocolate cake served at his birthday. It's a fact that cocoa farming leads to deforestation, especially where farmers clear tropical forests to plant cocoa trees. The resulting loss of habitat, and acceleration of climate change from greenhouse gases, are bad enough -  but even worse, child labor is still prevalent in cocoa harvesting. Hey Bob, I bet you love Alabama's new child labor laws!

The news after ART processing: It's Bob's birthday. He likes chocolate cake.