Rick Wakeman Discusses The Mellotron

[HammondDave]

Just came across this old audio file of Rick Wakeman and others (Paul McCartney, Mike Pinder, Jean Michel Jarre, etc) discussing how they used the Mellotron.  
 

Some of this is hysterical. Especially when Wakeman demonstrates what a Mellotron disaster sounds like and describes Jon Anderson’s reaction when it would occur during  a performance (at around 17:00 in). 
 

The Audio file link is about halfway through the article. 
 

https://www.openculture.com/2013/06/rick_wakeman_tells_the_story_of_the_mellotron_the_oddball_proto-synthesizer_pioneered_by_the_beatles_.html

 

 

[HammondDave]

Here is one of those little disasters.  At 2:35 you can hear Mike Pinder’s MK 2 wobble away a melody line. Both Grahaem Edge and Ray Thomas get a laugh from this. That’s all you can do in moments like these.  (also... at 5:55 is probably the best camera shot ever of Mike Pinder's magnificent pitch bend technique during this awesome climatic transition into the last section of this song. RIP, Mike)
 

 

[Konnector]

Way back in '73 as a young teen, I was standing about 10 feet in front of the stage at a Led Zeppelin concert.  In the middle of The Rain Song, JPJ's Mellotron went nuclear with sparks and smoke and died.  

[HammondDave]

2 hours ago, Konnector said:

Way back in '73 as a young teen, I was standing about 10 feet in front of the stage at a Led Zeppelin concert.  In the middle of The Rain Song, JPJ's Mellotron went nuclear with sparks and smoke and died.  

Never heard of that type of Tron disaster. Must have been a voltage issue. Most tron disasters end up like this….

 

 

 

[Konnector]

30 minutes ago, HammondDave said:

Never heard of that type of Tron disaster. Must have been a voltage issue. Most tron disasters end up like this….

 

 

 

 

Ya, it looked like it erupted out of the bottom rear of the cabinet. Maybe a power cable shorting out. Whatever it was, they fixed it. It worked again in time to play Stairway to Heaven later on in the show.

[HammondDave]

1 minute ago, Konnector said:

 

Ya, it looked like it erupted out of the bottom rear of the cabinet. Maybe a power cable shorting out. Whatever it was, they fixed it. It worked again in time to play Stairway to Heaven later on in the show.

 

Yup. That's where the power connector is located... The power supply is on the bottom left of the cabinet. Did they change out the entire machine per were they working on it on stage? 

[Konnector]

That was a loooong time ago!  All I remember is seeing sparks and a bit of smoke and shortly after two roadies huddled around the back of it attempting to fix it. I was too caught up after that watching Jimmy Page no more than 10 -15 ft. away from me. (at my age back then it was like seeing God!

 

A similar thing happened to me at a gig  early in our first set. My leslie cable jack had worked it's way loose. (we were constantly on the road back then) It shorted out and died. Had to play the rest of the night with the organ straight into my mixer. Talk about instant cheese factor without a narly leslie.

[Motif88]

Love it… but I’ll use this:

 

https://www.gforcesoftware.com/products/m-tron-pro-iv/

[Konnector]

Yup...Plugins are all you need for a Mellotron these days. I'll always reach for tron strings/choir samples over realistic strings & choir first. The grungier sounding the better. 

[JoJoB3]

1 hour ago, Konnector said:

Yup...Plugins are all you need for a Mellotron these days. I'll always reach for tron strings/choir samples over realistic strings & choir first. The grungier sounding the better. 

Yeah, this is one where the VST/Sampler is a godsend.  I can't get on the MT fawning train anyway, it was always so limited. Seems like the most foolish purchase (orig/vintage).
Plus I swear if I hear that overused Beatle flute one more time...

[David Emm]

2 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

Yeah, this is one where the VST/Sampler is a godsend.  I can't get on the MT fawning train anyway, it was always so limited. Seems like the most foolish purchase (orig/vintage). Plus I swear if I hear that overused Beatle flute one more time...

 

If its not for you, okay; its a love/hate thing for a lot of people. However, the GForce library has numerous examples of sounds massaged in their Frankentron, as they call their in-house mastering tool. They're tweaked to very clean heights, with little of the legendary graininess. Many of those sounds- and especially their Chamberlin set- give it a new kind of weight. I bought M-Tron because I had a huge Genesis & Tangerine Dream jones, but as with synthesizers, Banks C, D & E offer some real gems I never expected. Its cleaner strings are some of the best friends my synths & Spitfire instruments have, for example. Its a unique pleasure for me.   

[JoJoB3]

2 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

If its not for you, okay; its a love/hate thing for a lot of people. However, the GForce library has numerous examples of sounds massaged in their Frankentron, as they call their in-house mastering tool. They're tweaked to very clean heights, with little of the legendary graininess. Many of those sounds- and especially their Chamberlin set- give it a new kind of weight. I bought M-Tron because I had a huge Genesis & Tangerine Dream jones, but as with synthesizers, Banks C, D & E offer some real gems I never expected. Its cleaner strings are some of the best friends my synths & Spitfire instruments have, for example. Its a unique pleasure for me.   

 

Wait, for clarity I was talking about not being interested whatsoever in owning a vintage/real Mellotron (MT).

 

Gefoece MTron is awesome. So can be any sampler you own.

[Konnector]

7 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

Plus I swear if I hear that overused Beatle flute one more time...

 

That's one Tron sound I've always avoided. It lives forever in Strawberry Fields IMO. If I need a flute sound, I'll go with flute samples or even a synthesized one and leave the Tron flute with the Beatles.

[HammondDave]

The classic Mellotron sounds have an iconic sound and texture to them, which makes them extremely unique to people with trained ears.  Even early on when I was a 14 year old, I was able to easily identify the 3 Violins sound from many bands, but only after I realized that this sound came from a MK II tron. As a 14 year old I saw King Crimson perform twice at the Palm Beach Festival in 1969.  After that experience I realized those imperfect and slightly out of tune notes combined with various sonic textures in each recording created that unmistakeable sound.  That’s when I realized that the Moodie Blues were using a tron.  You can hear this clearly on “Days of Future Passed” when they transition from a Mellotron to a real string section (best heard at the end of “Nights in White Satin”.)   
 

Playing in a contemporary cover band I would avoid using a tron sound for strings or flutes unless the original recording used one…. Unless it places that song in the original era. For instance, we cover “Living in the Past” and I use my 3 Violins tron samples to cover the real string section used on the original recording.  This always brings smiles to my bandmates’ faces at the end when I play a typical dark Cm chord at the end of that tune. If we covered “Nights…” or a King Crimson tune, I would be all over that!  However, I don’t think our audiences would appreciate it as much as my bandmates and I would. 

[D. Gauss]

On 7/29/2024 at 2:30 AM, Konnector said:

 

 If I need a flute sound, I'll go with flute samples or even a synthesized one and leave the Tron flute with the Beatles.

 

i use this guy:  

 

 

[SamuelBLupowitz]

On 7/28/2024 at 7:15 PM, JoJoB3 said:

Plus I swear if I hear that overused Beatle flute one more time...

Oops, that's my go-to Mellotron patch! 😆

 

If I'm going to cover those kinds of sounds on a keyboard, I want it to sound like a keyboard, so those do the thing for me. Flutes, strings, choir. But also, the nature of them being "Beatle Flutes" is often exactly why I use them. It's like how wearing star-shaped glasses gives the vibe of Bootsy Collins, or a top hat suggests Leon Russell, or an oversized suit makes people think of David Byrne in Stop Making Sense. Just a little bit of musical shorthand.

[JoJoB3]

1 minute ago, SamuelBLupowitz said:

Oops, that's my go-to Mellotron patch! 😆

 

If I'm going to cover those kinds of sounds on a keyboard, I want it to sound like a keyboard, so those do the thing for me. Flutes, strings, choir. But also, the nature of them being "Beatle Flutes" is often exactly why I use them. It's like how wearing star-shaped glasses gives the vibe of Bootsy Collins, or a top hat suggests Leon Russell, or an oversized suit makes people think of David Byrne in Stop Making Sense. Just a little bit of musical shorthand.

Haha.   Well, yer not the first (and it is iconic).  COME ON, SOMEBODY LEAD THESE PEOPLE OUT!

[ProfD]

On 7/29/2024 at 12:29 AM, JoJoB3 said:

Wait, for clarity I was talking about not being interested whatsoever in owning a vintage/real Mellotron (MT).

 

Gefoece MTron is awesome. So can be any sampler you own.

Mellotron is another one of those KBs that I wish that I had bought when folks were throwing them away.🤣

 

Otherwise, I thought those early, low bit rate hardware sampling KBs were great for reproducing those Mellotron-ish sounds.😁

 

Well, because technically, using audio tapes, the Mellotron itself is one of the first sample-playback KBs. 

 

The audience definitely won't know the difference between a *real* Mellotron sound and a sample from any modern KB.   The secret is to make the sound lo-fi.😎

[JoJoB3]

26 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Mellotron is another one of those KBs that I wish that I had bought when folks were throwing them away.🤣

 

Otherwise, I thought those early, low bit rate hardware sampling KBs were great for reproducing those Mellotron-ish sounds.😁

 

Well, because technically, using audio tapes, the Mellotron itself is one of the first sample-playback KBs. 

 

The audience definitely won't know the difference between a *real* Mellotron sound and a sample from any modern KB.   The secret is to make the sound lo-fi.😎

I'm certainly a glutton for punishment but these things are a life sentence. Cool-odd keybed though

[ProfD]

4 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

I'm certainly a glutton for punishment but these things are a life sentence. Cool-odd keybed though

Thankful that I was not relegated to the  h8ll or life of gear nostalgia and/or romanticism.  Glad I've always had an appreciation for technology providing us with those old sounds in newer boxes.

 

The funny thing is legendary musicians like Rick Wakeman have always embraced newer technology too. He's not always perched behind a stage full of vintage gear either.  Load up those Mellotron samples in the [insert KB here] and let's go out and play.😎

[Mills Dude]

Its an interesting dynamic.  Our heroes -- Emerson, Wakeman, Banks, among others -- used the tools they had on hand.  In the early 70s, the mellotron was perhaps the best choice to emulate a string section despite its operational difficulties (Not that KE ever used one, but that's beside the point).   I would think that Wakeman always saw the compromise with the sound.  As new tech replaced the old, I would think that each of them went through the process of figuring out what old tech could be eliminated and none of them too concerned with emulating a piece of kit they used on a previous record. 

 

If I was carting around a temperamental mellotron, it'd be the first to go, replaced with whatever polysynth could get me closer to the original intention, a string section.  Fast forward 50 years and the tech to be able to emulate the mellotron is definitely accessible but does Wakeman really care about getting that sound or the sound he was originally looking for. 

 

Its the nuts like us that want it to sound like the record that go to these extremes.

[Konnector]

Emerson didn't use one, but they did use one on their Trilogy tour for while at least. Greg Lake played it when they did Abaddon's Bolero while Emerson played the organ and Moog parts....until it broke down one night. I think they dropped that song off their setlist after that.

[ProfD]

4 hours ago, Mills Dude said:

Its an interesting dynamic.  Our heroes -- Emerson, Wakeman, Banks, among others -- used the tools they had on hand.  In the early 70s...

Absolutely. The main reason they used it was availability. 

4 hours ago, Mills Dude said:

I would think that Wakeman always saw the compromise with the sound.  As new tech replaced the old, I would think that each of them went through the process of figuring out what old tech could be eliminated and none of them too concerned with emulating a piece of kit they used on a previous record.

The cool thing about an old publication called Keyboard magazine was that it showed us how those legendary musicians were embracing newer technology and changing their KB rigs over time.

 

The most fortunate musicians had KB techs who would take care of sound design and sampling and rig configuration.

 

4 hours ago, Mills Dude said:

If I was carting around a temperamental mellotron, it'd be the first to go, replaced with whatever polysynth could get me closer to the original intention, a string section. 

Vintage KBs were replaced with synths, samplers and ROMplers everytime something new came along capable of providing a reasonable facsimile of the sounds needed for the gig.

4 hours ago, Mills Dude said:

Fast forward 50 years and the tech to be able to emulate the mellotron is definitely accessible but does Wakeman really care about getting that sound or the sound he was originally looking for. 

KB tech trots out the latest hardware KBs and/or software options. Shows Mr. Wakeman around as necessary. Let's him fly.😁

 

4 hours ago, Mills Dude said:

Its the nuts like us that want it to sound like the record that go to these extremes.

Of course, the forum would have a lot less participation if we didn't obsess over sounds, KB parts on recordings and speculation over gear that doesn't exist yet.🤣😎

[Baldwin Funster]

I think it's the name. It makes you think about an electronic mellow machine.

No one ever talks about a chamberlain. That just makes you think of a british politician. 

[Old No7]

14 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

I think it's the name. It makes you think about an electronic mellow machine.

No one ever talks about a chamberlain. That just makes you think of a british politician. 

 

LOL, I think of the 20th Maine at Gettysburg, where Union Colonel Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain led a bayonet charge downhill after they ran low on ammo.

 

Old No7