The Instrument Has no Magic Fairy Dust

[ProfD]

https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/190823-herbies-88-key-suitcase-rhodes-for-sale-15k/?do=findComment&comment=3008697

 

 

@Docbop quoted musician Terrace Martin as follows..."people see old photos of great musicians playing what is now old gear,  he said they forget all that was new gear when that picture was taken.   Musician didn't care about the age they just wanted good gear."

 

Whether it is an electromechanical KB  or a synthesizer, the gear is not iconic when manufactured.  It is just an instrument that serves to produce sound(s).

 

An instrument or a sound becomes iconic once a musician successfully uses it.  That is the real reason the harpsichord patch never really Jump-ed off.

 

IMO, some of today's instruments have a reasonable facsimile of every sound needed to play and/or produce music.

 

However, not a single instrument past or present has the magic fairy dust to make it iconic.  That is the job of the musician(s) using it.

 

This is just another PSA reminder that it's not the tool (instrument).  The musician(s) using it makes a world of difference.😎

[TommyRude]

yeah but….  another way to define fairy dust is something-anything that inspires the musician.  The inspiration can be a song, a person, a memory, an experience, a sound.  So while it may be true that the instrument itself doesn’t contain the fairy dust, it very well may be the trigger that unlocks the fairly dust that exists in our own souls.

[CEB]

Gear is overrated.   

[J.F.N.]

It's like with AI, it won't make magic without a human feeding it...

 

The fairy dust, is our creativity!

 

[JamPro]

40 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

It's like with AI, it won't make magic without a human feeding it...

 

The fairy dust, is our creativity!

 

 

When I first saw this post, I read it as ".....it won't make magic with a human feeling".  Which seems so right to me.  It is the human emotion - not the hammer action, not the tubes, not the coding or silicon chips - which makes the music grab us, and makes us excited about the music.  IMO, it is the human emotion which gives life to the musical idea, and which is the hold the music has over the listeners.  

[Docbop]

3 minutes ago, JamPro said:

 

When I first saw this post, I read it as ".....it won't make magic with a human feeling".  Which seems so right to me.  It is the human emotion - not the hammer action, not the tubes, not the coding or silicon chips - which makes the music grab us, and makes us excited about the music.  IMO, it is the human emotion which gives life to the musical idea, and which is the hold the music has over the listeners.  

 

As long as no one hits Quantize and screws it up. <grin>   Grids are for Kids

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, TommyRude said:

yeah but….  another way to define fairy dust is something-anything that inspires the musician.  The inspiration can be a song, a person, a memory, an experience, a sound. 

Sure. Inspiration can come from a variety of sources.

 

IMO, those things merely spark the creativity one has innately.

 

Musicians gave electromechanical KBs and synths life. Not the other way around. 

 

1 hour ago, J.F.N. said:

The fairy dust, is our creativity!

Bingo.

 

Creative folks have the magic dust that pushes an instrument beyond its real or perceived limitations. 😎

[ElmerJFudd]

As an 88k Suitcase I don't know if I would pay more than $5-6k depending on its condition.  

As Herbie's instrument - that's a tough call, is it worth $15k today?  It surely will appreciate upon his passing if put up for auction.  And as we all know, special things are worth more to collectors than $.  To a fan and player with the means, $15k is a pretty fair price, imho.  

 

 

 

[zephonic]

I'm pretty sure I have seen a keyboard patch that was called "Magic Fairy Dust", it was one of those glassy, airy voice/bell type things.

 

So sorry to say, brother D, you are wrong ;-)

 

[ProfD]

7 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

As Herbie's instrument - that's a tough call, is it worth $15k today?  It surely will appreciate upon his passing if put up for auction.  And as we all know, special things are worth more to collectors than $.  To a fan and player with the means, $15k is a pretty fair price, imho.  

Sure, if Herbie's former Rhodes is an investment to be flipped later, the $15k could appreciate.

 

However, if a musician thinks or believes owning that Rhodes or any instrument will make them a better musician...they're probably better off buying Viagra. I've heard that it contains magic fairy dust.🤣😎

[ElmerJFudd]

I wrote, recorded, published and present for your streaming enjoyment, Magic Fairy Dust.

It took less than 2 minutes and required nothing but typing a sentence and a few mouse clicks. 

https://www.udio.com/songs/nyvN8swdhWjHixgyuXS4p1

[MathOfInsects]

I think fetishizing vintage equipment helps the fetishizers think their cool sounds are somehow more "legitimate" than some lowlife Rompler-come-lately's cool sounds. Like, "Look, I'm making mine the old fashioned way!" I mean, yeah, sort of, I guess, on a technicality, if you want to start "old fashioned" at whatever year your expensive paperweight was popular. You could also chisel all your emails into stone tablets and have someone walk them to the recipients, too, but we fixed that antiquated system millennia ago. 

[CHarrell]

2 hours ago, ProfD said:

That is the real reason the harpischord patch never really Jump-ed off.

 

You haven't seen the Slim Shady videos taking over musician social media!

[ProfD]

33 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

You haven't seen the Slim Shady videos taking over musician social media!

Right.  Great example of a hit record featuring a harpsichord patch. 

 

Yet, musicians didn't go dumpster diving for vintage harpsichords nor were they buying ROMplers specifically for harpsi sounds. 

 

However, strangely enough, there is a harpsichord category on some KBs. 🤔

 

Maybe harpsi will become a thing when the analog synths fade again.😁😎

[J.F.N.]

4 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Right.  Great example of a hit record featuring a harpsichord patch. 

 

Yet, musicians didn't go dumpster diving for vintage harpsichords nor were they buying ROMplers specifically for harpsi sounds. 

 

However, strangely enough, there is a harpsichord category on some KBs. 🤔

 

Maybe harpsi will become a thing when the analog synths fade again.😁😎

 

And clonekeys.. Crumar Hapi 61

 

🤣

[Reezekeys]

When I'm deeply affected by a piece of music, the last thing on my mind is regarding the tools used to make or present it. Actually that's never on my mind.

 

Nothing wrong with discussing those bits and pieces on forums like this of course - lots of valuable info and insights here. We have lots of toys to choose from now. Once that choice is made, it's time for the rubber to meet the road and make some music that nobody cares how it was made! 🙂 

[David R]

I want to push back on this a bit. I agree with ProfD’s point that buying Herbie’s Rhodes won’t make you play or sound like Herbie; however, I have played some instruments that have magic fairy dust of their own that have been phenomenally inspiring. Part of it might be context — the beat-up upright piano in Bob Marley’s house in St Ann, Jamaica is objectively not a good instrument but it had such a vibe and exuded spirit.
 

I played three Steinway Bs side by side at the Steinway shop in Düsseldorf and there was one that drastically fit my playing more closely than the two others. I asked the employee whether there were any differences and she replied, “there isn’t supposed to be.” I’m not a guitarist by any stretch but there have been a couple that got away - I should have bought them on the spot because they were so easy to play in my hands. Even when I look up similar models, they don’t feel the same as those specific specimens that were in my hands at the time. 

[AROIOS]

53 minutes ago, David R said:

...I played three Steinway Bs side by side at the Steinway shop in Düsseldorf and there was one that drastically fit my playing more closely than the two others. I asked the employee whether there were any differences and she replied, “there isn’t supposed to be.” I’m not a guitarist by any stretch but there have been a couple that got away - I should have bought them on the spot because they were so easy to play in my hands. Even when I look up similar models, they don’t feel the same as those specific specimens that were in my hands at the time...

By today's standard, many guitars and pianos suffer from horrible deviation from design specifications, mostly because of human involvement in the manufacturing process.
 

We can cut some slack on acoustic guitars and acoustic pianos coz no two pieces of wood are 100% identical and they are a big part of the sound.
 

But on electro-magnetic instruments like electric guitars and Rhodes, human-induced variations like fret installation/finishing, pickup winding/magnets/height etc, are such relics from 50's manufacturing technology, and look embarrassing given today's tech and tools.
 

I cringe every time a cork sniffer touts the "vintage tone" of a 59 Strat fetching obscene prices. In my uncultured engineer eyes, it's just 3 pieces of 60-yr-old electro-magnets FFS.
 

And don't get me started on the idiocy of audiophiles or film snobs. 😆

[stoken6]

3 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

I think fetishizing vintage equipment helps the fetishizers think their cool sounds are somehow more "legitimate" than some lowlife Rompler-come-lately's cool sounds. Like, "Look, I'm making mine the old fashioned way!" I mean, yeah, sort of, I guess, on a technicality, if you want to start "old fashioned" at whatever year your expensive paperweight was popular. You could also chisel all your emails into stone tablets and have someone walk them to the recipients, too, but we fixed that antiquated system millennia ago. 

Every instrument was "this modern stuff ain't like the old days" once. Clarinet, trombone, Ondes Martenot, Hammond... I bet when Cristofori's invention hit the streets, there was plenty of "yeah, it's not the same, you can't hear the plectra return to the strings - these young players haven't got control over the release of the notes..."

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Docbop]

6 minutes ago, AROIOS said:

By today's standard, many guitars and pianos suffer from horrible deviation from design specifications, mostly because of human involvement in the manufacturing process.

 Being I spent the majority of my life playing guitar and bass I'd say there is far more consistency than before CNC machines.    Back in 60's -80's you had to play whatever instrument you wanted to take home because of all the variations from being hand made.  Nowadays if I want a Fender or Gibson model XYZ I can buy online and know it's going to be as close to any other XYZ model around.   The little things your talking about pickup height, bridge settings and similar things are all personal choice and that's why they are easily adjustable.  People when I got a new instrument or had major work done because they'd see in my practice space my small screwdrivers and allen wrenches would be out because I'm be tweaking things to dial the guitar in to my setup I like.   In fact whenever I saw a so called "guitar tech" setting up a guitar using rulers I say don't let him touch your gear.  Setting up a guitar is about feel not measurements and adjusting pickups is about using your ear to hear to dial in the sound you want.    Modern instruments are way more consistent than those of the past to me.

[CrossRhodes]

For me acoustic and electric guitars definitely either have the mojo or they don’t. Not sure what makes the same model from the same company vary from instrument to instrument but there’s definitely some fairy dust in there somewhere. Also, I love gear/instruments and love the inspiration I get from different ones. I don’t know why people are so concerned about how other people view instruments or what their personal criteria’s are. If you’re satisfied with any off the shelf piece of gear good for you. If you’re constantly chasing the dragon and looking for that fairy dust and that makes you happy, you do you!

[AROIOS]

1 hour ago, Docbop said:

...CNC machines...

Yup, that's the "modern standard" I referred to. By now we should expect the same consistency of IKEA chairs on electric guitars, instead of the variations that plague so many instruments that flooded the market in the decades prior.

That said, I still see tons of inconsistency even on the same model of electric guitars today, most likely a result of human involvement in the manufacturing process. In sharp contrast, it's hard to imagine this level of deviation among even 80's digital keyboards.

[J.F.N.]

Ime analog synths may sound different from one to another, I have owned three Juno 60s in my life and they all had different characteristics... 

 

May have been mileage, it's possible they all sounded the same new from the factory back when they were introduced...

[GovernorSilver]

Recently witnessed a conversation involving a person who felt he had to buy a Julian Lage signature Collings to sound as good as Julian.  That's not how it works.  😀

[AROIOS]

4 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

Recently witnessed a conversation involving a person who felt he had to buy a Julian Lage signature Collings to sound as good as Julian.  That's not how it works.  😀

It sure is what the manufacturers, or at least their marketing departments, would love us to all believe though.

[GovernorSilver]

26 minutes ago, AROIOS said:

It sure is what the manufacturers, or at least their marketing departments, would love us to all believe though.

 

Fender for sure, as they hired Julian to demo their Player II Telecaster which retails for $800, a mere fraction of what his Collings costs.

 

That said I have no problem with manufactures like Fender using marketing practices to try to maintain revenue. 

[J.F.N.]

6 minutes ago, GovernorSilver said:

Recently witnessed a conversation involving a person who felt he had to buy a Julian Lage signature Collings to sound as good as Julian.  That's not how it works.  😀

 

It's getting even worse when it's about plugins... "Buy this bundle get the sound of this and that producer/engineer"...

 

Seriously...!!

 

 

[GovernorSilver]

5 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

 

It's getting even worse when it's about plugins... "Buy this bundle get the sound of this and that producer/engineer"...

 

Seriously...!!

 

 

 

Oh yeah my buddy was thinking of getting a plugin that would supposedly reproduce the sound of some legendary studio.  I forgot the name of the plugin and the studio as I didn't really care about either, but I believe it's developed and sold by Universal Audio.

 

he ended up not getting the plugin... at least for the forseeable future.

[AROIOS]

1 hour ago, GovernorSilver said:

 

Oh yeah my buddy was thinking of getting a plugin that would supposedly reproduce the sound of some legendary studio.  I forgot the name of the plugin and the studio as I didn't really care about either, but I believe it's developed and sold by Universal Audio.

 

he ended up not getting the plugin... at least for the forseeable future.

Sounds like one of those "Abbey Road ***" plug-ins.

Little do these enthusiasts know, a big part of that "Abbey Road sound" came from the humid London air with a perfect blend of smog and coal soot. Until they treat their studio with that air, none of their mics/tubes would "resonate" at the right kind of "musical" frequency.

[Tusker]

I was just listening to a Bach-on-synthesizer tune and a portion of the melody was surreal. The pitch intonation was slightly and artistically out of tune on this mellow synth melody. The accompaniment was precisely pitched so the melody stood out. I thought "is that the instrument's natural intonation?" "or is he playing around with portamento and pitch settings on the fly?" 

 

How very cool.

 

Then as the piece went on, this pitch idiosyncrasy began to grate on me. It turned out it was a thereminist sitting in and he just wasn't that skilled. It went from art to uggh.

 

Egg on my face. Doh! 😄 🤦‍♂️