NYT Says Taylor Swift Is Bigger Than The Beatles!? WTF

[J.F.N.]

1 hour ago, Bill H. said:

 

If you really want to try to get a handle on Taylor Swift, I'd suggest instead just entering Taylor Swift songs in Google. The highlights were pretty much all there - everything from the teenage girl plantively singing "Teardrops on my Guitar" to the mature woman addressing her demons in "Anti-Hero". 

 

Trying to decipher Taylor Swift from her last album would be like someone who had never heard the Beatles listening to their last LP (Let It Be) and concluding "OK that's The Beatles."

 

Well it is. But not really.

 

Going back three albums would be somewhat better, but it's still not the whole story. 

 

And I'm not a Taylor Swift fanboy or anything. Just my take on it. 

 

listened to her last 4 albums, as mentioned... ( I would hope that should be somehow representative, she's not been around for decades....).

 

🤪

[MathOfInsects]

18 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

 

listened to her last 4 albums, as mentioned... ( I would hope that should be somehow representative, she's not been around for decades....).

 

🤪

(She has, though. She's been around for 20 years [aka two decades] and released 15 albums and 7 EPs.)

[CyberGene]

3 hours ago, KenElevenShadows said:

But I do like some of Taylor's stuff. "Snow on the Beach" is probably my favorite song I've heard by her.

Funny how we’re all so different. That’s so bland, generic and uninteresting to me. No development, no contrast, just some monotonous diatonic boredom. But hey, I respect that you like it, hope you don’t take it personally. 

[J.F.N.]

22 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

(She has, though. She's been around for 20 years [aka two decades] and released 15 albums and 7 EPs.)

 

Apparently the three previous albums I listened to, after her latest album, are 10-12 years old, in a new version.. 

 

 

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, Bill H. said:

If you really want to try to get a handle on Taylor Swift, I'd suggest instead just entering Taylor Swift songs in Google.

It's a thoughtful recommendation but usually an exercise in futility especially for listeners whose musical tastes and biases have already been defined. 

 

A *new* Taylor Swift fan will be someone either younger than her or slightly older but not too many above 40-years-old.😁😎

[J.F.N.]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

It's a thoughtful recommendation but usually an exercise in futility especially for listeners whose musical tastes and biases have already been defined. 

 

A *new* Taylor Swift fan will be someone either younger than her or slightly older but not too many above 40-years-old.😁😎

 

And I definitely got the feeling while listening that it's not really targeted towards 50+ European White Male population. 🤣

[MathOfInsects]

5 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

 

Apparently the three previous albums I listened to, after her latest album, are 10-12 years old, in a new version.. 

 

 

I actually wondered if that might be the case. 

 

The story behind that is that she had a dispute with her former label over ownership of her first six records, because of a contract she'd signed when she was 15. She solved it with a beautiful "f*ck you" gesture of simply rerecording those records herself, so she could own her own masters. That's some dark and twisted funny-ass shit right there. 

 

Her songs aren't for our demographic. But I think some of the cuts off two albums you might consider listening to--"Folklore" and "Evermore," both made during COVID with Bryce Dessner from The National--are more accessible. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KenElevenShadows]

8 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Funny how we’re all so different. That’s so bland, generic and uninteresting to me. No development, no contrast, just some monotonous diatonic boredom. But hey, I respect that you like it, hope you don’t take it personally. 

 

Especially given my music background with unusual, weird, and very different music, I suppose it is unusual. You could listen to the videos I posted and see if you feel differently about it, but no matter. Like I say, she's not my favorite, but I do like some of her stuff that I mentioned. And I have enormous respect for her as an artist. 

[ProfD]

15 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

And I definitely got the feeling while listening that it's not really targeted towards 50+ European White Male population. 🤣

 

12 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

Her songs aren't for our demographic. 

Correct on both accounts.  End of thread.🤣😎

[Bill H.]

12 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

Her songs aren't for our demographic.

I'll take it further than that. For the majority in this forum, maybe not even for our gender. 

 

The first time I became aware of Taylor Swift was way back during the Bush administration when I started running weeknight karaoke for extra money. I remember this one outdoor even I did where I had a line of adolescent girls lining up to sing one song: Teardrops on my Guitar. That song really connected with them. 

 

Then a few years later when I had a club residency as a DJ, the people who would come up and request tracks like "Shake it Off" were always females. The women would dance, while the guys would usually sit that one out. 

 

Although I have nothing to back it up, I think that's still somewhat true today - and maybe the biggest difference between Taylor Swift and the Beatles. 

[J.F.N.]

16 minutes ago, Bill H. said:

I'll take it further than that. For the majority in this forum, maybe not even for our gender. 

 

The first time I became aware of Taylor Swift was way back during the Bush administration when I started running weeknight karaoke for extra money. I remember this one outdoor even I did where I had a line of adolescent girls lining up to sing one song: Teardrops on my Guitar. That song really connected with them. 

 

Then a few years later when I had a club residency as a DJ, the people who would come up and request tracks like "Shake it Off" were always females. The women would dance, while the guys would usually sit that one out. 

 

Although I have nothing to back it up, I think that's still somewhat true today - and maybe the biggest difference between Taylor Swift and the Beatles. 

 

So kind of the opposite of Kevin Bloody Wilson then...

 

 

[Tusker]

This Morning Consult poll suggests that Taylor Swift fans are fairly evenly split across genders. 

 

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/03/14/more-than-half-of-us-adults-say-theyre-taylor-swift-fans-survey-finds/

 

 

[Bill H.]

I stand corrected thanks Tusker  I had a feeling I should have looked that up before throwing it out there  The rest of her demographic does not surprise me though - just based on my experience as a local DJ and karaoke host. 

[HSS]

2 hours ago, Tusker said:

This Morning Consult poll suggests that Taylor Swift fans are fairly evenly split across genders. 

 

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/03/14/more-than-half-of-us-adults-say-theyre-taylor-swift-fans-survey-finds/

 

 

The age demographics of Taylor Swift's fanbase in the poll data is consistent with my Generation Z 18 year old son and his friends thinking that her pop songs are corny and for old folks. This is how my friends and I felt about Elvis during the 70's when we were into Jethro Tull, Yes, ELP, Allman Brothers, Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, etc. 

[J.F.N.]

4 hours ago, Tusker said:

This Morning Consult poll suggests that Taylor Swift fans are fairly evenly split across genders. 

 

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisadellatto/2023/03/14/more-than-half-of-us-adults-say-theyre-taylor-swift-fans-survey-finds/

 

 

 

53% of 2200 (survey population), that's about 1100 peeps (target population), based on other data showing that Miss Swift has sold 5-6 million tickets to her recent shows, I strongly question how seriously we should take that survey result...

 

To further add perspective: 283m followers on Instagram, 32.8m followers on TikTok, and 95.2m followers on X.

 

In addition, looking at the data for "avid fans", 16% out of, one can assume, the target population, would suggest about 175 people only...

 

Feels like way too large error margin here!

 

Source:: "Number of Eras tickets sold

Swift sold an estimated 4.35 million tickets across 60 tour dates within concert trade publication Pollstar's chart year of Nov. 17, 2022 to Nov. 15, 2023. That's an average of 72,500 tickets per show, with each ticket costing an average of $238.95. Using those numbers to extrapolate across shows played since then, Swift has likely now sold around 6.02 million tickets".

 

https://time.com/6900208/taylor-swift-eras-tour-anniversary-stats/

[CrossRhodes]

I’m not in the Swift demographic either so never paid much attention until Ryan Adam’s covered her 1989 album. It’s a great album (imo) and I was able to connect to her music and lyrics through his interpretations in a way that wouldn’t have happened otherwise. Swift and the Swifties are ok in my book.
 

 

 

[bfields]

On 6/27/2024 at 8:22 PM, J.F.N. said:

 

53% of 2200 (survey population), that's about 1100 peeps (target population), based on other data showing that Miss Swift has sold 5-6 million tickets to her recent shows, I strongly question how seriously we should take that survey result...

Hm, somebody that's better than me at stats could crunch the numbers, but no, actually, I suspect the error bars are pretty tight there (assuming random sampling).  My memory is that the way this works, the absolute size of the sample tends to matter more than the ratio of sample size to population size.

 

(It's the "assuming random sampling" part where things are more likely to go wrong.)

[J.F.N.]

39 minutes ago, bfields said:

Hm, somebody that's better than me at stats could crunch the numbers, but no, actually, I suspect the error bars are pretty tight there (assuming random sampling).  My memory is that the way this works, the absolute size of the sample tends to matter more than the ratio of sample size to population size.

 

(It's the "assuming random sampling" part where things are more likely to go wrong.)

 

I also would not be surprised if the "Survey" mentioned here is just a dumb internet poll, which then per se makes it completely unreliable and useless...

[TommyRude]

This study is legit.  All 1,100 samples were taken from Tesla driving parents of kids at Harvard Westlake junior high school in Studio City, CA

[Tusker]

Do we have better information sources to rely on? I'll gladly take them. 😅

[Adan]

I did my own survey in recent days, which revealed that 75% of american males over 50 are not at all interested in Taylor Swift's music, but are very interested in currying favor with female Swift fans under the age of 35.  Sample size=4.

[CyberGene]

17 minutes ago, Adan said:

but are very interested in currying favor with female Swift fans

There are male Swift fans too?

[J.F.N.]

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

There are male Swift fans too?

 

According to a sample of 1100 US adults 48% of her fans are male.

 

 

 

 

[ProfD]

4 hours ago, Adan said:

...75% of american males over 50...are very interested in currying favor with female Swift fans under the age of 35. 

Maybe a Freudian slip.😁

 

Regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if some dirty old dudes are hanging out at Taylor Swift shows trying to pick up Swifties and happy endings.🤣😎

[MathOfInsects]

2 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Curry...

Hey! He resembles that remark. 

[J.F.N.]

6 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Maybe a Freudian slip.😁

 

🤣😎

 

Lace is outdated these days?

 

[elsongs]

On 6/21/2024 at 5:33 AM, Tusker said:

 

What you say makes a lot of sense. Cultural impact is not the same as financial impact. The world population has doubled since the Beatles.

 

Aside from the population, a lot has changed since the 1960s - 

- A good percentage of the world lived in Communist/Eastern Bloc countries where the Beatles (and Western music in general) was pretty much banned.
- An even larger percentage of the world had little access to pop music outside of radio; record/cassette/8track players were expensive and albums would be a pricey luxury to many.

Swift (and other 21st-century artists) don't have those factors limiting their reach.

So depending on the metric, Taylor Swift *could* be bigger than the Beatles. Objectively speaking, Swift has certainly performed live in front of more people than the Beatles did (to be fair, many artists did, as The Beatles only toured during the first half of their career). And The Beatles, in terms of being an active recording artist, only lasted less than a decade, whereas Swift has been releasing albums for almost 20 years now.

 

 

[Tusker]

20 hours ago, CyberGene said:

There are male Swift fans too?

 Yes. 😊 I saw a crowd at the Eras tour. Overshadowed by the girls but still there. Band is serious with some serious analog kit. It’s a professional pop music operation, reaching across demographics.

 

I would compare Taylor to Michael Jackson. Both are pop musicians, successful teenagers (though Michael began earlier and was under more family pressure) with all the drama that entails. Both surrounded themselves with the best in the business to navigate long and productive careers.

[CyberGene]

16 minutes ago, Tusker said:

It’s a professional pop music operation

I’m sure of that, big acts always have top gun musicians. 
 

17 minutes ago, Tusker said:

I would compare Taylor to Michael Jackson

I like Michael Jackson and some of it I really love. Not sure if Taylor Swift is comparable in terms of music and arrangements though, at least from what I can hear. Maybe they are similar as business model, fan base and reach towards youth but I’m still more with Beato about how Swift’s music is just too derivative and formulaic compared to previous pop musicians. Or maybe I’m getting old 😀

[Tusker]

That’s fair. We don’t have to like Taylor to evaluate her honestly. I’d agree that Taylor’s music is objectively simpler than Michaels. Simpler than the later Beatles of course. Michael draws on some deep Gospel and Jazz roots.
 

It also depends how lyrically oriented you are. John Lennon wrote some of the greatest lines in pop music. (Imagine pop music without Imagine. I can’t.) Michael not so much. Taylor writes for a TikTok generation. She’s no Leonard Cohen but there’s the occasional great line. She cuts through.
 

If complexity is the measure of great pop music I’m going back to Gershwin.