Sharing Charts / Arrangements With Your Replacement

[Stokely]

22 hours ago, zephonic said:

 

That makes sense.

 

But frankly, these days I chart out even simple tunes because I just forget what is what. Bandleader calls out a tune and I can't remember which one that is, especially if it is simple and sounds a lot like other songs, and was part of a whole bunch of new tunes I had to learn. Like 'Sugar' (Maroon 5), I just have a four bar chord chart to remind me what it is, and it what key.

 

So a lot of these are not actual charts, the songs don't require that, but the music equivalent of sticky notes, I guess.

Pretty close to 100% of my "charts" start life on Ultimate Guitar.   Having that "transpose" on there is very nice for songs where they used a capo or where your band might do it in a different key.

I copy/paste them into a google doc and clean up the formatting.  Typically I'll remove the chords for repeating sections with no changes, but leave the lyrics with a header like (verse 2) as a point of reference.   These all live in a shared folder that the rest of the band can access, and that any of us can pull down onto our tablets and have available.  The reality is that the only person who ever uses these is me, but that's useful enough!  Even writing them out helps me cement the song.

You do run into mistakes in these occasionally, but the comments on UG will often point these out.  Anyway, serves as a great starting point and if we ever decide to pull out a tune I haven't played in 5 years I will usually have it in my folder, unless it's some dirt simple thing that I've heard/played a billion times.

[jerrythek]

19 hours ago, Rodan88 said:

Greeting from NYC, folks.  The below pertains to professionals; if you're more of a hobbyist, whatever.  But......

 

You're talking about my religion here.  We make our living as musicians, and our work has value.

 

In my very strong opinion - the charts are: 1) The fruit of hard labor on your part, as well as 2) highly-developed computer notation skills (I presume.)

 

They're also 3) the product of deeply caring about the gig, your band and your own performance.

 

My charts fit all 3 criteria above, and custom-writing charts for others is a significant part of my income.

 

As far as writing charts for my own freelance gigs - I do what needs to be done, without having to be asked.  This might be in a situation where I'm subbing once for a band that I might never play with again.  This can possibly be - and often has been - a ton of work.  We all know people who get by with none of the above - with varying levels of success.  However, I accepted the gig, and just because the bandleader and/or musician I'm subbing for have been too shortsighted  - and ignorant - and lazy - AND CHEAP -to realize that, above all, high-quality charts aren't for the guy that already knows the book - they're for subs, new hires and emergency situations - notwithstanding that, I do the work.  I know - having a work ethic is almost unheard of these days, but that's what a professional does.  (Of course, I don't accept every gig, and it makes sense for all of us to turn something down if it seems like a chartless trainwreck-to-be.)

 

By the way - clean, accurate charts (which in most cases don't have to be extremely complicated, and don't require covering the page in flyshit) also come in handy when going out of town, hiring local musicians etc.  Get some good readers/players, and watch how smooth and quick the rehearsal process is.  Don't do that, and face the consequences.  There's nothing worse than wasting time in rehearsals deciphering shitty charts.  Henry Mancini could rehearse a 75-minute symphony show in 40 minutes.  Sure, Hank had excellent readers at his disposal, not to mention top-tier arrangements and copywork..  But excellent readers can't overcome low-quality charts.  And if the charts DO require flyshit, put on your grownup pants, buy some more toner for your printer, and get writing, kids.

 

So, guess  which side of the argument I fall on folks?  Your work has great value, even if others don't respect it.  Sell it for an appropriate price (if you wish).  Do not undercharge.

 

For those who think I'm the reincarnation of the Grinch (wait, I think he's still alive) - of course, to get through a gig, I'm happy to let someone read over my shoulder.  But GIVE THE CHARTS AWAY?  No way.  People think nothing of asking me to give them not a single chart, but their band's whole book, etc.  Clueless.  I abhor musical laziness.

 

2 more points:

 

1) My son, an up-and-coming keyboardist on the scene here, gets anything he wants, of course.  But he's been well-trained to not share the wealth.

 

2) In this day and age, when letting anything escape from your control means it will crisscross the internet/world instantly, it's even more foolish to give your work away.

 

I feel better now.  Maybe this weekend, they'll let me leave the asylum.

Hear, hear!!
 

 

[pjd]

It depends... I work with a few people who I regard as collaborators. I generally don't hold anything back from them unless they say, "Stop." The rest, MEH.

 

As to pro work, a pro shouldn't give away work unless it brings more work. I'm also sensitive to taking work away from musicians who are earning their living from music, especially since I'm retired now.

 

Making charts is work!!!

 

-- pj

 

[CEB]

Who here would ask their predecessors for their charts? Personally I wouldn’t.  You can either play the gig or not.  
 

I don’t ask for ask for driving directions either 😀😀😀

[Adam Burgess]

I've done charts for a few (very good) tribute acts' sets.

I get money from the promoter/booker to do them - once they're done, I really have no problem 'giving' them to the artist for future shows at a small cost. Not gonna charge per song, to be honest. I had to do them as MD. Cheaper for the promoter to pay me to do really good sight-readable parts than hire a rehearsal room/PA = engineer/ 5x musicians etc. The sound check is the rehearsal so has to go smoothly, and everyone has to be happy. As a bonus, I know the parts backwards after a few days on them so can not worry about playing the keyboard and just being able to accompany. 

A Whitney Houston act (just starting out in her 40s, but a fabulous performer), got a set of 25 tunes written out for a four piece, plus some 808 loops/string parts I'd reprogrammed etc for free. She kept it quiet and I've had a few more arranging/transcribing jobs from her agent… Not a bad loss-leader.

If I'm not on the gig the next time, I'd quite happily send the link to the PDFs and tracks for another MD. But - I made sure I got paid for them initially. 


I did some chamber orchestra arrangements/transcriptions last year (mix of Arabic and western), and that was a LOT of work in a stupidly tight time frame, so I insisted they cannot touch those arrangements without me being paid, or getting me to conduct the gig. 

For simple band chord charts, I would hand them over and not worry about it. 
 

[obxa]

On 5/11/2024 at 6:33 PM, pjd said:

Making charts is work!!!

Amen!    With that as sequitur-I wonder about the third component to this is:  what would be considered intellectual property from your employer??  .  Particularly in Ministry.

 

Part of my Church MD gig  is creating charts/scores  and arrangements for band/small orchestra of both new stuff and traditional hymns.     When I took the gig, previous  MD left a nice good luck note and thumb drive of all his Finale and PDF files.     Much of the contemporary stuff was dated, but was able to re-purpose others.   Though it's never been spelled out, guessing when I leave I'll be expected to do the same?    Though I owned them already,  church pays for additional Finale & Abelton licenses and updates,  plus the laptop I use them on. 

[Piktor]

7 hours ago, obxa said:

Amen!    With that as sequitur-I wonder about the third component to this is:  what would be considered intellectual property from your employer??  .  Particularly in Ministry.

 

Part of my Church MD gig  is creating charts/scores  and arrangements for band/small orchestra of both new stuff and traditional hymns.     When I took the gig, previous  MD left a nice good luck note and thumb drive of all his Finale and PDF files.     Much of the contemporary stuff was dated, but was able to re-purpose others.   Though it's never been spelled out, guessing when I leave I'll be expected to do the same?    Though I owned them already,  church pays for additional Finale & Abelton licenses and updates,  plus the laptop I use them on. 

If part of the gig is creating charts, then I assume that the work that you did for your employer belongs to your employer. As I said earlier in this thread, when I left teaching I left a lot of material for my former colleagues and my replacement to use in any way that they wanted. Some of that material (including Finale files) was created as part of my job, so there was no question that I would leave copies of it behind. I could have deleted the other Finale files that I created for extracurricular ensembles, as  I volunteered the many, many hours that it took to create them. If I thought that someone would take that work and somehow make money from it, I probably would have erased the files. I did leave them for the benefit of future students. 
 

As some people have already suggested, in the end the work that a person does themselves usually ends up being most meaningful. Personally, I wouldn’t really want someone else’s half-assed work anyway. However, there was that time when I played a last minute paid gig as an audition and the guitar player handed me some napkins with chord changes that he had scrawled on them. That I did appreciate. 🙂

[konaboy]

cover songs or originals? if i were stepping into a cover band i would have no interest in my predecessor's charts, they would be a hindrance and not a help.  Likely to be innacurate and who wants to be reading on stage anyway, especially somebody else's notes.

better to listen, figure out the song yourself, create your own interpretation of the parts and memorize.

 

[Reezekeys]

47 minutes ago, konaboy said:

better to listen, figure out the song yourself, create your own interpretation of the parts and memorize.

 

 

I don't think that method will work if e.g. you're a last minute sub to play one gig in a band with a setlist of 20 - 30 songs, most unfamiliar. I would appreciate any kind of chart, if only to have a roadmap of the form. I can usually suss out bad changes and figure out something to play on the fly, even if it's not 100% "correct" to the recorded version of a song.

 

There's lots of different types of gigs out there, musical genres, etc. My local gigs are with friends where we're all reading. Most of the leaders will email PDF charts of some kind - it's just a courtesy; you can't expect everyone to know the songs you want to do, or to spend time "learning" them for a typical low-bread fun gig at a restaurant or bar. Occasionally a leader will email a week or two in advance with a youtube link to a tune he wants to do. I'm happy to scrawl out a quick chord chart then; it's likely we'll be playing the song at future gigs.

[Piktor]

19 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

I would appreciate any kind of chart, if only to have a roadmap of the form. I can usually suss out bad changes and figure out something to play on the fly, even if it's not 100% "correct" to the recorded version of a song.

 

That reminds me of the time I desperately needed to find enough work to cover my next year’s tuition. A friend from school offered me a month’s worth of gigs covering for their regular keyboard player while she was on an extended voyage. The “any kind of chart(s)” that she had prepared for me was a bunch of sheets with the notes of each melody written out in letters…no standard notation, no rhythms, no bar lines, and u familiar tunes. “G F# G E G F# G E….”  Good times! Needless to say, the gig was a test of my memorization skills and sense of musical logic. If you resent someone asking you to share charts, maybe you should prepare a couple in this same way and then ask if the person making the request wants any more. 

[Al Quinn]

Interesting topic and I get the different perspectives. Looking back on my experiences, I've always been generous with sharing my charts to anyone who finds them useful. I've been asked by bandleaders for copies of select charts, which I've provided, but I've never been asked for my entire book. It's a "you get what you pay for" situation since they weren't created with others in mind. I scratch them out quickly and often leave out details that I'm confident I can fill in by ear.

 

Every time I've tried to do a more pro job writing out a chart it's taken much more time than I'd like which inevitably leads me back to my pencil and paper, or in recent years iPad and Apple Pencil, scribbling process. When I've written out charts for others (e.g., horn arrangements) I do a good job because it's for others. Even in that case I've never asked for my charts back when I left. I suppose if I was fired from a band and they asked for my charts I might feel less charitable but, fortunately, I've never been in that position.

[J_tour]

Bare minimum.  It's easy for me to make a lead sheet with some chord symbols that the reader may or may not know how to voice.  Somebody who wants to know?  I'll show them....but they got to write it down themselves.  As a courtesy?  Equivalent of putting the changes on a bar napkin, same as you'd do for anybody curious.

Maximum?  If the replacement is chill, then sure.  That's assuming I wrote it down, or can remember it.  Bear in mind I write anything by hand, in pretty good manuscript writing, with all the right conventions.  If they're not chill, then, that's a burned bridge and I can live with that.

I got paid either way. 

[stoken6]

11 hours ago, J_tour said:

Bare minimum.  It's easy for me to make a lead sheet with some chord symbols that the reader may or may not know how to voice.  Somebody who wants to know?  I'll show them....but they got to write it down themselves.  As a courtesy?  Equivalent of putting the changes on a bar napkin, same as you'd do for anybody curious.

Maximum?  If the replacement is chill, then sure.  That's assuming I wrote it down, or can remember it.  Bear in mind I write anything by hand, in pretty good manuscript writing, with all the right conventions.  If they're not chill, then, that's a burned bridge and I can live with that.

I got paid either way. 

Nailed it. It's not even a burned bridge - you've done everything that you could reasonably be expected to do. "I hope this is helpful, but I appreciate that everyone has personal preferences on this kind of thing".

 

Cheers, Mike.

[mcgoo]

It's interesting. I've read all of this thread, and though there are differing opinions, I don't really disagree with anyone. That tends to make me think it really just depends on the situation. 

 

In my corner of the universe, I write charts for every band I play with and sub with. I freely share those charts with anyone in these bands that might want them, with the disclaimer that I wrote them for me, not as an arranger for a pit Orchestra. It's up to them to decipher my charts, which vary from a few scribbled reminders to full on Sibelius charts with heads written out. For bands I'm in, I also setup a shared Dropbox folder. All of those charts are in there along with recordings of all the songs. And the Dropbox folder gets shared with any sub. 

 

I never did that with any expectations or agenda. In my situation, it just seemed like a way to make the bands better. In a few situations, it made me the undeclared MD. 1 band I subbed with hired me to write a whole bunch of charts for a spin-off group they were putting together.