Viscount Legend Soul 261 vs. the rest

[Aynsley Green]

So, Viscount Legend Soul 261 + Viscount Pedalboard 18 - half the price of the Hammond XK5 Pro Kit, and a more compelling package (one piece, 20kg, built-in interface, nice pipe organ, separate Bass output, built-in bass samples, pedals are considerably lighter).

I know everyone's raving about IK B3X these days - it does sound great, but I want the clanky wooden experience to kick bass, not another laptop on-stage hooked into my half-dead SK2 that doesn't turn on half the time - been down that road before.

Anything else I should be considering? And is there any downside to the 261 vs the full-size? Does anyone really use those reverse keys, beyond A# and B?

[mrk7421]

Has it been determined that the newest Crumar Mojo keybed is or is not different than all the rest ? I have been playing some of the recent single manual Mojo's that have been coming through McIntosh Audio and damn.. . Crumar really nailed that keybed ! Also ...I have the Mojo desktop here as well as Viscount module and have come to appreciate the Mojo even more lately..... mainly the basic organ sound minus Leslie. I love the Mojo overdrive and I think it goes a long way toward helping it sound natural and organic. The sim editing parameters still drive me nuts.... would have to say  the fact that you cannot edit the Viscount is actually a plus But it sounds like you are leaning toward multi contact.....For me the Mojo key click helps its sense of authenticity in that regard

[mrk7421]

Is it true that you can add overdrive effect through a Viscount Legend via effects loop? If you can I need to try it.At this point the Mojo overdrive is one of its major assets.

[mate stubb]

14 minutes ago, mrk7421 said:

Is it true that you can add overdrive effect through a Viscount Legend via effects loop? If you can I need to try it.At this point the Mojo overdrive is one of its major assets.

 

Absolutely. I used to run my Speakeasy AMA in my Legend Live effects loop and it was glorious.

[Aynsley Green]

1 hour ago, mrk7421 said:

Has it been determined that the newest Crumar Mojo keybed is or is not different than all the rest ? I have been playing some of the recent single manual Mojo's that have been coming through McIntosh Audio and damn.. . Crumar really nailed that keybed ! Also ...I have the Mojo desktop here as well as Viscount module and have come to appreciate the Mojo even more lately..... mainly the basic organ sound minus Leslie. I love the Mojo overdrive and I think it goes a long way toward helping it sound natural and organic. The sim editing parameters still drive me nuts.... would have to say  the fact that you cannot edit the Viscount is actually a plus But it sounds like you are leaning toward multi contact.....For me the Mojo key click helps its sense of authenticity in that regard

 

I used to run VB3 back in the day, I assume the Crumar Mojo is the same sound engine (which is very good).
But I've heard the stories of it crashing mid-gig because it's running Windows under the hood - no thanks. It's kind of ugly, too, what with that stupid name emblazoned on the back in a goofy Comic Sans font - if I'm throwing that kind of bread it needs to be aesthetically pleasing.

[John Tweed]

I love my Soul261, except for a couple of features/changes from the Live that have been removed/introduced - no midi expander mode, and the 11-pin output does not go through the standard overdrive; yes you can use the overdrive in the effects but then the new effects (ring mod, wah etc) are not available. I’m hopeful that these issues will be addressed in a future update.

 

However on those occasions where a single manual is all that is required, I’ve been using a Yamaha CK61 with VB3M on iPad. This has to be one of the best value apps out there, much cheaper than B3X. There are very few options but the basic sound is excellent for blues and rock. I’ve not yet been able to get B3X to sound as good in these situations. I’m sure it could be, but one of the greatest advantages of VB3M is that you can run it on your iPhone, so it’s an excellent back up. I’ve never had an issue with it in live use.

 

I’ll still be using the Soul for organ trio or left-hand bass gigs, but the smaller rig is a great solution that lets me leave the Soul at home, hooked up to my Leslie, and so far never gigged so it is still in pristine condition. I used to have the dual manual Mojo with the light keyboard, but I was never happy with the sound for organ trios, so switched to Legend and now Soul. Funnily enough I sold the Mojo to one of the top organists in the country, who uses it in trio formats all the time and loves it. Just goes to show its horses for courses.

[adamcz]

I just ordered the Mojo after giving heavy consideration to the Viscount. I suspect the Viscount is better but couldn't tell for sure and don't have access to try either instrument. The prices are quite different so I just went with the cheaper one.

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, adamcz said:

I just ordered the Mojo after giving heavy consideration to the Viscount. I suspect the Viscount is better but couldn't tell for sure and don't have access to try either instrument. The prices are quite different so I just went with the cheaper one.

 

The only negative to the Mojo is the lack of a 2nd set of drawbars, although the one set on the Mojo can control upper, lower, and pedals with one button push. You can purchase a 2nd set of drawbars if needed or use the Voce Midi drawbar unit as the 2nd set.  The advantage is the delivered CFX piano, Rhodes, Wurli, Clav.  These are all top notch sounds that come with the Mojo 61 making it a potential one board solution. The Mojo Ainsley is referring to is the original Mojo that used embedded XP as the software platform.  This is no longer the case with the Mojo 61, classic, and Suitcase versions.  Reliability is no longer an issue.

[HammondDave]

Love my Mojo 61. Pound for pound, best sound, keyboard feel, and value for a weekend warrior. 

[Adan]

If you haven't been using preset keys then you probably won't miss them. The Soul does feel great, and I think feels closer to a real Hammond than any other clone. This is how I'd rank the actions of some current clones, with the % figure representing how close it gets you to the feeling (not the sound) of a real Hammond (recognizing that real Hammonds can feel somewhat different):

 

Legend Soul: 95-97%

Crumar Mojo: 90-92%

Hammond SKPro: 88-90%

Vox Continental: 86-88%

Nord Electro: 80-82%

Yamaha YC61: 60-65% (no high trigger)

 

This is just my opinion, having played all of these. Again, this is just feel, not sound.

[mrk7421]

So my original question was.....has the Soul been modified to compare with the excellent key response of the Mojo. It sounds like it has. So the next question would be if the contact effect would be all that important.For me it is not much of an issue and the reason for that is I am not wild about using even key click on a digital instrument. I can take it or leave it ...so ditto for contact effect. I really wish the Mojo would have adjustable percussion volume ....rather than adjustable click volume.That is one thing the Mojo lacks and don't get me started on how frustrated I am that Mojo editing must be done outboard.....which is a big reason I use the module instead .....

[Delaware Dave]

I believe using the Mojo editor you can adjust the percussion volume for both soft and loud separately. If you cant wrap your head around the easy editor (apparently you can't) then yes you are stuck with the delivered percussion volumes.

[Aynsley Green]

On 5/6/2024 at 1:00 AM, Delaware Dave said:

 

The only negative to the Mojo is the lack of a 2nd set of drawbars, although the one set on the Mojo can control upper, lower, and pedals with one button push. You can purchase a 2nd set of drawbars if needed or use the Voce Midi drawbar unit as the 2nd set.  The advantage is the delivered CFX piano, Rhodes, Wurli, Clav.  These are all top notch sounds that come with the Mojo 61 making it a potential one board solution. The Mojo Ainsley is referring to is the original Mojo that used embedded XP as the software platform.  This is no longer the case with the Mojo 61, classic, and Suitcase versions.  Reliability is no longer an issue.

 

Ah, clearly I am not up to date. Gave the new Crumar Classic a look - does sound pretty good, and quite a bit cheaper, but not a full set of drawbars, and still looks a bit ugly. And there's another thread on the forum right now about how Crumar's still have reliability issues and static discharges - might be a false economy going for the cheaper brand

[JoJoB3]

UAD should make the next gen leslie pedal btw.
And finally some better examples of the Soul are coming forward.
 

 

[mrk7421]

Nope....can't wrap my head around having to drag another piece of thing on a gig and especially trying to access some device while playing.....sorry... as much as I like Crumar Mojo  I strongly believe they screwed up by not giving you the onboard percussion volume KNOB that Viscount included. The Viscount module also includes easy access to percussion volume on the desktop. A big reason I use the Mojo desktop rather than their keyboard..... Sorry Guido....but I never adjust key click and yes....I do have adjustable volume on my home C-2 with Trek percussion. Love it! 

[Mitch Towne]

The Crumar Mojo Classic and the Viscount Soul definitely do not feel the same. They are not the same keybed. 

[b3plyr]

14 minutes ago, Mitch Towne said:

The Crumar Mojo Classic and the Viscount Soul definitely do not feel the same. They are not the same keybed. 

True - the Mojo uses a modified Fatar and the Soul uses an in house developed keybed. Huge difference.

[John Tweed]

42 minutes ago, Mitch Towne said:

The Crumar Mojo Classic and the Viscount Soul definitely do not feel the same. They are not the same keybed. 

They both feel different, but both are very light to play. The Soul has a slight feeling of escapement - like a little bump on the way down, whereas the Mojo (I’m speaking of the first model of the dual manual Mojos with the improved keyboard, which I no longer have) was just constant springing all the way down. I didn’t get on with the Mojo sound, so I switched to a Live a few years back. Boy did I miss that Mojo keyboard though! I had both the Live and the Soul at home until the Live went to its new home, so was able to compare them. What I realised that I didn’t like about the Live keyboard was when fully depressed the keys were pushing up a lot more strongly that the Soul. Holding down notes on the Soul takes very little pressure, and that really makes the difference to me.

[mrk7421]

I put Mojo springs in my Viscount single manual and it made a huge difference. I was able to get them from my service tech but I am not sure they are commonly available. Also...,.......................regarding Leslie sim when I compare Viscount and Mojo the Viscount is the one I prefer  There are a lot less bells and whistles with the Viscount though there is a lot I still don't undI understand about the Mojo parameters. I hate editing clonewheels so with the Viscount it's all right there on the top panel. I will still give Mojo points for excellent CV and overdrive.....Viscount points for ease of use. The overdrive on my original issue single manual Viscount sucks.....

[mrk7421]

And no there isn't much if any back pressure when I put the Mojo springs in Viscount.

[HammondDave]

The Mojo 61 has the most authentic Hammond feel of all the clones I have played. 

[Delaware Dave]

Kurzweil KB3 with a Vent for leslie sim ....  

 

https://www.facebook.com/1557821682/videos/392091690497454/

[francesco verni]

Hello everyone, 

Francesco from Viscount here. Just to refresh the topic a little bit because of the several improvements done in the past months..( maybe could be helpful for somebody:) )

 

I would like to share some of the last videos selected form the web ( among users and professional productions..).. it is my personal taste... also considering that Viscount has released e new rock/pop oriented leslie sim.. in order to offer with a unique machine all the "styles" possibilities...

 

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afu2WjxJeCg - Frank Montis

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nGSzRl1t-o 

 

- https://youtube.com/shorts/EwliHD2EbFk?feature=shared -  short video with the new leslie sim

 

-   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCDK4ye6KbM   Delvon Lamar 

- https://www.facebook.com/reel/804339204398750 Matthew Whitaker

 

We are keep collecting suggestions of our pro team in order to evaluate it and empower again again the Soul organs. Never stop improving for our customers. 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

[JoJoB3]

2 hours ago, francesco verni said:

Hello everyone, 

Francesco from Viscount here. Just to refresh the topic a little bit because of the several improvements done in the past months..( maybe could be helpful for somebody:) )

 

I would like to share some of the last videos selected form the web ( among users and professional productions..).. it is my personal taste... also considering that Viscount has released e new rock/pop oriented leslie sim.. in order to offer with a unique machine all the "styles" possibilities...

 

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afu2WjxJeCg - Frank Montis

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nGSzRl1t-o 

 

- https://youtube.com/shorts/EwliHD2EbFk?feature=shared -  short video with the new leslie sim

 

-   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCDK4ye6KbM   Delvon Lamar 

- https://www.facebook.com/reel/804339204398750 Matthew Whitaker

 

We are keep collecting suggestions of our pro team in order to evaluate it and empower again again the Soul organs. Never stop improving for our customers. 

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

It'll likely be never when we hear the sim match the vintage original leslie but Mr. Montis has 'that thing' so who cares?

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

It'll likely be never when we hear the sim match the vintage original leslie but Mr. Montis has 'that thing' so who cares?

 

I actually thought this leslie sounded very unnatural .....

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EwliHD2EbFk?feature=shared -  short video with the new leslie sim

 

[JoJoB3]

5 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

I actually thought this leslie sounded very unnatural .....

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EwliHD2EbFk?feature=shared -  short video with the new leslie sim

 

Yeah. Sounds like a sim.
Mainly talkin about Mr. Montis's video.
 

[Aynsley Green]

On 5/15/2024 at 3:01 AM, Delaware Dave said:

 

I actually thought this leslie sounded very unnatural .....

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EwliHD2EbFk?feature=shared -  short video with the new leslie sim

 

 

We may never reach the Digital Leslie Nirvana - there's just something about a sound bouncing off every corner of the room that maybe can't be replicated - but other demos I've heard the Soul Leslie sim are pretty good. 
It's a lot of bread, but the Soul 261 + Pedalboard 18 is at the center of the weight/features/sound Venn diagram, so I pulled the trigger - will let you guys know how I get on with it after driving a Hammond SK2 for the last 13 years.

[Mitch Towne]

I messed around extensively with the Legend Soul and I was pretty impressed with the Leslie sim. 
 

But yeah…nothing sounds like a Leslie in the room. 

[Niall01]

On 5/5/2024 at 6:15 AM, John Tweed said:

I love my Soul261, except for a couple of features/changes from the Live that have been removed/introduced - no midi expander mode, and the 11-pin output does not go through the standard overdrive; yes you can use the overdrive in the effects but then the new effects (ring mod, wah etc) are not available. I’m hopeful that these issues will be addressed in a future update.

 

However on those occasions where a single manual is all that is required, I’ve been using a Yamaha CK61 with VB3M on iPad. This has to be one of the best value apps out there, much cheaper than B3X. There are very few options but the basic sound is excellent for blues and rock. I’ve not yet been able to get B3X to sound as good in these situations. I’m sure it could be, but one of the greatest advantages of VB3M is that you can run it on your iPhone, so it’s an excellent back up. I’ve never had an issue with it in live use.

 

I’ll still be using the Soul for organ trio or left-hand bass gigs, but the smaller rig is a great solution that lets me leave the Soul at home, hooked up to my Leslie, and so far never gigged so it is still in pristine condition. I used to have the dual manual Mojo with the light keyboard, but I was never happy with the sound for organ trios, so switched to Legend and now Soul. Funnily enough I sold the Mojo to one of the top organists in the country, who uses it in trio formats all the time and loves it. Just goes to show its horses for courses.

Do you mind me asking you're opinion on sound of the Soul 261 vs Hammond ? I'm in Clone Organ brain meltdown at his stage as none of these Organs are sold where I live. Have to order online. Keep making mistakes.

Had a Crumar sent it back, single set of drawbars ,couldn't split either manual in half.

I've Been trying to find out how you can get this Lower manual left-hand-bass, with chord comping right-hand(also on lower manual)....must be 'split' lower manual, therefore need 2x sets of drawbars? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nGSzRl1t-o (YOUTUBE won't allow me share youtube link here so it's:  VIDEO: FRANK MONTIS 'Play Like a Pro with this Carefree Hammond Organ Blues Exercise')

 

I can't afford the Hammond XK5, & a hobby player not professional. Love the vintage Hammond sound but open to different sound if you can achieve something close to Hammond.

 

Thanks for any help.

Niall.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Niall01 said:

Do you mind me asking you're opinion on sound of the Soul 261 vs Hammond ? I'm in Clone Organ brain meltdown at his stage as none of these Organs are sold where I live. Have to order online. Keep making mistakes.

Had a Crumar sent it back, single set of drawbars ,couldn't split either manual in half.

I've Been trying to find out how you can get this Lower manual left-hand-bass, with chord comping right-hand(also on lower manual)....must be 'split' lower manual, therefore need 2x sets of drawbars? : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nGSzRl1t-o

It seems to me that the lower manual is not split, rather both hands on the lower manual would be playing the organ registration in the far right set of drawbars, illustrated below. I've never heard of any 2-manual organ that lets you split a manual to play a third organ registration. Just one on top and one on bottom at any given time.

 

A single manual organ can usually do a split on its one manual, even if it has only one set of drawbars. There would be a way to toggle the single set of drawbars to be able to control either the "lower" or "upper" sound (regardless of whether the "lower" was an external physical lower keyboard, or the lower portion of its own manual below a split point).