The Eagles (well, Don Henley) caught miming at their live shows

[analogika]

Yeah. Don Henley’s lead. 
 

 

No idea whether it’s the whole show — I’m gonna assume it’s a couple specific tracks, and probably backings flown in in most songs. 

 

Unsurprising, considering it’s not like these guys are seventy-year-olds anymore. 
 

But still kind of disappointing.

[Stokely]

I haven't seen a big show in almost 15 years and tracks are the reason.  If I want karaoke I'll go to the local pub where they aren't pretending to be "live".  If I want puppets pretending to sing, I can go to Disney and watch the Country Bear jamboree or pull up some old Muppets shows.

Gross.   I can't change it, that battle was lost long ago but I can choose to save my money.   If my current band can't compete with the "big album sound" that every other band is getting, fine I'll hang it up.  Had a good run.

At least you can still watch the '77 Eagles live show, which is ridiculously good.

[kpl1228]

I hope none of this is legit: this is a band that prides itself on pristine natural harmony and accurate renditions of their catalog, and performing well for themselves and their fans, and with the addition of Vince Gill, even more so. I did not expect this.

[analogika]

14 minutes ago, kpl1228 said:

I hope none of this is legit: this is a band that prides itself on pristine natural harmony and accurate renditions of their catalog, and performing well for themselves and their fans, and with the addition of Vince Gill, even more so. I did not expect this.

Find me an 80-year-old singer who can do what they did on studio recordings in their twenties and thirties. 
 

 

[analogika]

36 minutes ago, Stokely said:

At least you can still watch the '77 Eagles live show, which is ridiculously good.

If you think overdubs, edits, and “fixes” weren’t par for the course on virtual any live recording of the day, particularly such a high-profile band known for perfection… unless explicitly mentioned as unedited. 

 

Thing is, today every live concert is a de facto live recording, because there’s always going to be two or three cellphone videos of virtually the entire show. As in this case. So many artists (especially high-profile artists) will tend to pre-record to avoid high-profile flubs. 

[Stokely]

Oh no doubt.  I get all these bands have to keep up with the others and earn a living.  Audiences largely don't care, or even demand the "full sound" of canned music.   Fine, have at it, I'll save my bucks for bands that don't do it.

[RABid]

I remember an Eagles interview where they were talking about how they went to the studio to "fix" their live album before releasing it. As far as they were concerned they were giving the public what they want, a live album that sounded like studio.

[analogika]

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

Oh no doubt.  I get all these bands have to keep up with the others and earn a living.  Audiences largely don't care, or even demand the "full sound" of canned music.   Fine, have at it, I'll save my bucks for bands that don't do it.

I meant in 1977. 

[jazzpiano88]

Did you see Henley in court?    The idea that he can still perform is ludicrous.    He looked and sounded worse than a combination of Uncle Fester and Grandpa. 

[Anderton]

I hear ya. If I end up putting a live act together (as mentioned in another thread), it's gonna be my real voice...not because I have the world's greatest voice, but because I truly think having a human quality to it will make the act more appealing. Besides, I need to leverage any advantage I can

 

That was a lesson learned from watching Martina McBride. She did not use Auto-Tune and even though there were a handful (and only a handful) of not-quite-there notes, having REAL, expressive vocals were a treat.

[jazzpiano88]

The youtube guy really didn't even really need to spend more than a minute on the analysis to prove that it's tracks  -- Vocal performances are nearly impossible to replicate.  

 

Funny story -- Donald Fagen spent weeks and weeks of studio time day in and day out to satisfactorily double track the 2 second line "Well the..."  on 'Home At Last' for the Aja Album to the point the record company wanted to shut him down for being completely out of his mind.    I think there was a thread recently on this.

 

[David Emm]

6 hours ago, analogika said:

Find me an 80-year-old singer who can do what they did on studio recordings in their twenties and thirties. 
 

 

Its often too much like Night Of The Living Glam band.

 

Hearing a former lead demigod crack horribly while trying to hit a high F makes me howl like a dog. 😱

 

[harmonizer]

2 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

.....Funny story -- Donald Fagen spent weeks and weeks of studio time day in and day out to satisfactorily double track the 2 second line "Well the..."  on 'Home At Last' for the Aja Album to the point the record company wanted to shut him down for being completely out of his mind.    I think there was a thread recently on this.

I am a huge fan of Steely Dan and the Aja album in particular, and have listened to all its tracks countless times.

I've always felt that the words "Well the" had a particular sound, as if a lot of effort was made to make them sound that way!

[analogika]

7 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

The youtube guy really didn't even really need to spend more than a minute on the analysis to prove that it's tracks  -- Vocal performances are nearly impossible to replicate.  

 

Youtube being YouTube, he needed to spend some time driving home the point. I haven’t looked at the comments, but I’ve seen discussions on videos where a singer kept singing pristinely despite having the microphone stuck in his mouth because he needed his hands, and fans were all over the people pointing out that this was somewhat unrealistic. 

[nursers]

14 hours ago, analogika said:

Find me an 80-year-old singer who can do what they did on studio recordings in their twenties and thirties. 
 

 

Absolutely agree - but some still hold it together really nicely in a more conservative way. I watched 83 year old Tom Jones kick arse last night for nearly two hours, his voice 100% live. Was so great to see.

[Philbo King]

I remember recently reading the Motley Crue bassist quit after being told all live shows would be done using prerecorded tracks.  He wanted to (gasp) actually play his instrument!

[KuruPrionz]

Concert tickets for known acts have gotten absurdly expensive. 

I just go listen to local musicians perform as various venues. Drop a couple of bucks in the tip jar, have a beverage, hang out and enjoy the music. 

I also play these venues, I don't expect much in return. Applause is nice. 

 

I'm glad I went to see concerts when they were very affordable, I got to see some great acts in their prime. Bowie, ELP, The Who and on and on and on...

 

Deep Purple with Fleetwood Mac and Rory Gallagher cost me $7.50. That was decades ago. 

[BMD]

5 hours ago, nursers said:

Absolutely agree - but some still hold it together really nicely in a more conservative way. I watched 83 year old Tom Jones kick arse last night for nearly two hours, his voice 100% live. Was so great to see.

 

How refreshing to see the word 'arse' spelled correctly 😎

[Notes_Norton]

So many acts have been doing this for years. Once big money gets involved, it has to be fail-safe. Can't risk a hoarse voice.

When you paid $5 a ticket, it wasn't so much of a big deal to make refunds/reschedules. But now that you pay hundreds per ticket, a sore throat or the flu can just about bankrupt a concert promoter.

Decades ago, I went to a big rock show, I wanted to see Dr. John. He didn't show up, but the other acts did. One was Alice Cooper. They were “playing” their instruments and singing while they were walking him to the gallows to be hanged. Mid-note, mid-word, all the music abruptly stopped except the drums, which were barely audible. They went through the parade and hanged him in almost silence. I found out later, the tape broke.

 

That was the first time I noticed live bands not being live. With great theatrics like that, it's hard to play. I wonder if Michael Jackson could sing while doing his extraordinary physical dance steps? I heard from a former tour member that Madonna's show was pre-recorded. She couldn't sing and do those steps at the same time without voice compromises. How can you hit the ground with force and not have the not waver?

 

Recording a pre-concert show, I guess, is also insurance. I don't suppose everybody does it, but I think it's more common than we would like to believe.

But when the show is the show, and music is secondary, it's a logical thing to do.

I go to symphony orchestra concerts, which are still live. 

Mrs. Notes and I play to backing tracks. All the duos around here do that, and it's necessary if you want to be booked. But rather than using karaoke tracks like most so, I make my own. Since I play 7 instruments and have plenty of MIDI modules, I can do that. It feels less like cheating to do it myself. Plus, it's in our key, our arrangement, leave room for the solo hog (me), and I can get to the hook faster. I can also mix for live performance, exaggerate the groove a bit, bring the crack of the snare up, shift the bass a hair in front or behind the kick drum, put background vocals on synth patches, and so on.

 

Whether you are Henley or Norton or anyone else, if you want to make a living at playing music, there will be compromises. The situation and market will determine the compromises.

 

 

Insights and incites by Notes ♫

[kpl1228]

21 hours ago, analogika said:

Find me an 80-year-old singer who can do what they did on studio recordings in their twenties and thirties. 
 

 

That is NO defense for running tracks. Being a sham? Putting one over on people to still collect the check? As bad as backing keyboard tracks are live, any defense for a lead vocal being tracked is awful.

We all know an 80 year old singer does not sound 25. Come on.

[MathOfInsects]

[Stokely]

2 hours ago, KuruPrionz said:

Concert tickets for known acts have gotten absurdly expensive. 

I just go listen to local musicians perform as various venues. Drop a couple of bucks in the tip jar, have a beverage, hang out and enjoy the music. 

I also play these venues, I don't expect much in return. Applause is nice. 

 

I'm glad I went to see concerts when they were very affordable, I got to see some great acts in their prime. Bowie, ELP, The Who and on and on and on...

 

Deep Purple with Fleetwood Mac and Rory Gallagher cost me $7.50. That was decades ago. 

Someone on another forum mentioned Hans Zimmer was touring, I thought that would be cool to see some soundtrack stuff done live (I've watched youtube versions).   I asked and apparently it's all live, surprised me a bit because that would be super easy to run tracks to...the problem is that the cheapest seats are apparently over $300, yikes.

My band is getting up there in age, with any luck we'll continue to get gigs until tracks are required.   As mentioned above, they are expected in some cases, our singer's duo can't play in a couple spots already because they don't run them.   If our bandleader says we are going to go to tracks, I'll retire to my studio or seek out another band if there are any left that actually try to pull off a show live.

Re: fake amps
Just my own 2c, but if you are playing a part I don't care if it's through an amp or a Kemper, or have a fake leslie and use a clonewheel.  I don't give a flip, as long as you actually play and don't fly in your part from a laptop.   I'm sure we all have our "hills of fakery" we are willing to die on    My buddy WILL NOT gig without his amp, and that would rule him out of some of our gigs, which specify no amps.

[MathOfInsects]

16 minutes ago, kpl1228 said:

That is NO defense for running tracks. Being a sham? Putting one over on people to still collect the check? As bad as backing keyboard tracks are live, any defense for a lead vocal being tracked is awful.

We all know an 80 year old singer does not sound 25. Come on.

Queen used to run a recording of the opera section on Bohemian Rhapsody, since they couldn't pull it off live. Should they have just skipped their biggest hit?

[Stokely]

Were they up there pretending to sing and play it while that was running?  That's the question.

[analogika]

23 minutes ago, kpl1228 said:

That is NO defense for running tracks. Being a sham? Putting one over on people to still collect the check? As bad as backing keyboard tracks are live, any defense for a lead vocal being tracked is awful.

We all know an 80 year old singer does not sound 25. Come on.

Don't look at me. I’m just saying that you’re not gonna get an 80-year-old on stage to sound like a 25-year-old in the studio. 
 

Now, here’s the situation: you retired decades ago, because you knew that would eventually happen, but people want to see you for stuff you did 45 years ago. 
 

Hundreds of thousands are clamouring for live concerts, willing to pay lots and lots of money for something you cannot do — and that, with a few minutes’ thought, THEY should realise you cannot do. But they want to buy. 
 

Do you pass, or do you sell them what they want to see? 
 

I'm not necessarily excusing it, but I’m not sure how I’d answer that question, myself, were I in their position. There’s other legendary singers who were on the road LONG past their prime, to the point where it became painful and embarrassing to watch. As instrumentalists, our eventual decline is more easily disguised or transformed, but for vocalists, that must be tough. 

[jazzpiano88]

Also, take note.  It’s “Eagles” not “The Eagles”.  

[Stefan011]

53 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

Queen used to run a recording of the opera section on Bohemian Rhapsody, since they couldn't pull it off live. Should they have just skipped their biggest hit?

Nah, AFAIK Queen left the stage and re-entered after the section (augmented by video)  finished. Thats fair.

[Stefan011]

TBF they had an additional keyboard player hidden 🙂

[BMD]

1 hour ago, jazzpiano88 said:

Also, take note.  It’s “Eagles” not “The Eagles”.  

 

Yes. And it's 'Ramones', not 'The Ramones'

[KenElevenShadows]

2 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

Queen used to run a recording of the opera section on Bohemian Rhapsody, since they couldn't pull it off live. Should they have just skipped their biggest hit?

 

Do you feel this is an apples-to-apples comparison between this and someone lip-syncing to a song while making you believe they are singing?