Small footprint, jack-of-all-trades board

[SamuelBLupowitz]

I'm looking for a supplemental board for my organ trio live rig, to cover a wide spread of sounds outside of my primary setup of dual-manual organ and synth bass. The combination of our tunes evolving in the studio, and some of our collaborations with other artists, is making me want to have some more sonic options (piano and EP, clav, bells, lead synth, Mellotron), while keeping the organ and the bass synth the main focus of the rig. My 61-key Nord Electro checks a lot of these boxes, of course, but I'm wondering what my options are these days for a smaller footprint than that.

 

I'm planning on playing around with my little two-octave Bluetooth MIDI controllers and an iPad and see if that's low-maintenance and low-profile enough to cover the wide array of sounds I want without taking up quite so much space, but my experience with that setup is that it can be kind of finicky (also trickier to hook up to sustain or expression pedals). 

 

Any thoughts on what might be a good compromise between those two things? The Yamaha Reface is the hardware solution that's closest to what I'm envisioning, but of course with those you have to pick if you're going the CP, CS, or DX route. The CP would probably be my best bet, but I'd love to cover more diverse ground in a similar form factor. Without a hardware option, the most logical thing for the smaller gigs might be sticking to the iPad as a sound source, but getting myself a three- or four-octave controller with sustain and expression pedal inputs.

[eric]

Interesting topic! I will be following and doing some research. I've wanted something like this for a long time as a utility/rehearsal board when I don't feel like taking a NS3.

 

I will say that every single time I've bought a mini keyboard product, I have regretted it. This goes way back to Casio CZ-101, which was a fun early synth, yet not really something with which I could seriously perform. I had the MicroKorg for a bit, so many Roland Boutiques, never bought a Yamaha Reface though I have been tempted...probably some others as well.

 

Yamaha MX49 is one that has intrigued me from afar. I think they may still be in production? I played one at NAMM years ago and thought it had kind of the "best of Motif" type sounds in a very compact package. I was thinking of adding one to my rig to sit off stage, somewhat in "rack mode" though available if needed as a backup instrument. You might take a look at those.

 

Best of luck, and I look forward to seeing the other recommendations!

[ProfD]

Akai MPC KEY37.  Game over.😎

[Stokely]

I am using a NS3 compact as my single keyboard, it does everything I need and isn't that large (certainly not heavy, despite being metal and wood.)

Before that, I used a Modx7 in a similar fashion (the 6 of course would be smaller) but with an ipad to handle the organ.  That wasn't my favorite situation--I don't trust computers/tablets live and much prefer standalone keyboards-- but I must admit the sound was fantastic (B-3X).

[D. Gauss]

your organ real or fake?  if it's fake, just add an ipad via midi and Bob's yer uncle. easy peasy mac n cheesy.

[pjd]

I wouldn't count the Reface DX out. They're on sale for $250 and I bought one -- even though I swore I wouldn't by another mini-keyboard. 🙃

 

https://sandsoftwaresound.net/yamaha-reface-dx-in-the-house/

 

My first impression: It's a real synth and can store patches (32 locations). I need acoustic-type sounds and spent major time sorting through Soundmondo to find patches that aren't DX gag-ish. People over-tagged their contributions and it's nearly impossible to refine search.

 

Anyway, I did find a decent Rhodes that doesn't have that FM tang and a good Wurli, among others. You can do a lot with the two-stage effects alone without dipping into the FM programming. 

 

Cheesh, for $250?  -- pj

 

https://sandsoftwaresound.net/reface-dx-no-static-at-all/

https://sandsoftwaresound.net/more-dx-fm-learning-resources/

 

[AnotherScott]

Another possibility could be a used Korg Microstation, if you don't mind mini-keys.

[J.F.N.]

2 hours ago, SamuelBLupowitz said:

I'm looking for a supplemental board for my organ trio live rig, to cover a wide spread of sounds outside of my primary setup of dual-manual organ and synth bass. The combination of our tunes evolving in the studio, and some of our collaborations with other artists, is making me want to have some more sonic options (piano and EP, clav, bells, lead synth, Mellotron), while keeping the organ and the bass synth the main focus of the rig. My 61-key Nord Electro checks a lot of these boxes, of course, but I'm wondering what my options are these days for a smaller footprint than that.

 

I'm planning on playing around with my little two-octave Bluetooth MIDI controllers and an iPad and see if that's low-maintenance and low-profile enough to cover the wide array of sounds I want without taking up quite so much space, but my experience with that setup is that it can be kind of finicky (also trickier to hook up to sustain or expression pedals). 

 

Any thoughts on what might be a good compromise between those two things? The Yamaha Reface is the hardware solution that's closest to what I'm envisioning, but of course with those you have to pick if you're going the CP, CS, or DX route. The CP would probably be my best bet, but I'd love to cover more diverse ground in a similar form factor. Without a hardware option, the most logical thing for the smaller gigs might be sticking to the iPad as a sound source, but getting myself a three- or four-octave controller with sustain and expression pedal inputs.

 

The new 3 octave KingKORG could be something maybe?

 

[D. Gauss]

Again, if OP has a midi equipped double manual organ (it wasn't specified),  but if so,  buying an addition mini keyboard  instead of an Ipad seems silly to me.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

1 hour ago, D. Gauss said:

Again, if OP has a midi equipped double manual organ (it wasn't specified),  but if so,  buying an addition mini keyboard  instead of an Ipad seems silly to me.

My live organ is a dual-manual Mojo, so one option I have considered (and have used in the past) is just controlling additional iPad sounds from one of the manuals. So that's a route I may take here, but in this project I really do make use of both manuals within a tune pretty often (part of why I went with a separate sound source for bass instead of using an organ registration), so I'm just trying to consider as many options as I can.

 

And I'm glad I asked the group, because there are a lot of great ideas here!

[AnotherScott]

also Korg Triton Taktile 49.

[stoken6]

7 hours ago, eric said:

Yamaha MX49

My first thought. Although I like @ProfD's suggestion as well.

 

Cheers, Mike.

7 hours ago, eric said:

Yamaha MX49

My first thought. Although I like @ProfD's suggestion as well.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[cbhathco]

This doesn't answer your question, but I'm curious: what are you using for the synth bass? How are you amplifying it? And how do you position it relative to the Mojo? 

[ShadowMan]

I had an MX for a while (the 61… not a 49), but never bonded with it and sold it.  Got it primarily for rehearsals and as a backup at gigs.

 

While the integration with Ipad was great, the internal sounds and keyboard feel just didn’t cut it for me. 

 

 

[D. Gauss]

10 hours ago, SamuelBLupowitz said:

My live organ is a dual-manual Mojo, so one option I have considered (and have used in the past) is just controlling additional iPad sounds from one of the manuals. So that's a route I may take here, but in this project I really do make use of both manuals within a tune pretty often (part of why I went with a separate sound source for bass instead of using an organ registration), so I'm just trying to consider as many options as I can.

 

 

Do you have three hands or something? Seems to me you can only play 2 manuals at once, no?  If one of the manuals gets set up to easily switch between internal Mojo sounds and Ipad sounds at the simple press of a button or footswitch (via Camelot or similar), why would one need/want another board to schlep around?  Maybe that's just my old, bad back talking... 

[AROIOS]

12 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

also Korg Triton Taktile 49.

And Korg MicroX

[niacin]

 

[J.F.N.]

I counter with Luke 😊

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1LSii7aWwY

[niacin]

23 hours ago, SamuelBLupowitz said:

piano and EP, clav, bells, lead synth, Mellotron

 

Thanks Luke, lol.  Not sure the KingKorg Neo 'll do piano or Mellotron, or a credible clav or Wurly for that matter.  If it's just synth the OP asked for sure there are plenty of 3-4 octave options.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

7 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

 

Do you have three hands or something? Seems to me you can only play 2 manuals at once, no?  If one of the manuals gets set up to easily switch between internal Mojo sounds and Ipad sounds at the simple press of a button or footswitch (via Camelot or similar), why would one need/want another board to schlep around?  Maybe that's just my old, bad back talking... 

Sure, I'm definitely trying to give myself as little to schlep (and to fit in the vehicle, if it makes the difference in the number of cars going to the gig) as possible. So switching non-organ sounds on and off the manuals is definitely a simple way to do it.

 

But to answer your question about how many hands I have... 😉 There are times in this project when I'm kicking bass, playing a pad or comp on the lower manual, and playing a lead line on the top manual, and sometimes I want to be able to hit a bell or jump to a synth lead in the same tune. What's easier in those instances: having to change patches and then change back while I have all four limbs engaged with playing the instrument, or having the patch already cued up and waiting for me if I move my right hand up and to the right a bit? "Easy" is a bit of a compromise, since having sounds dedicated to certain boards rather than having to scroll through them is my always my preference, but space considerations and *my* aging back lean in favor of fewer things to carry.

 

It's likely I'll be going the organ-doubling-as-MIDI-controller route at some upcoming gigs, but I'm trying to brainstorm to see what my options would be if I wanted to simplify the workflow without bringing a full-size third board.

[kenheeter]

I think the Numa X Piano is a great compliment to an organ rig.  It has 73 full size keys but fits in most 61 note keyboard bags. Very nice for pianos and synths and superb iPad integration if you need more.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

10 hours ago, cbhathco said:

This doesn't answer your question, but I'm curious: what are you using for the synth bass? How are you amplifying it? And how do you position it relative to the Mojo? 

I've got a Korg Prologue 8 that I've been using for bass, and that's on a stand above the Mojo with the low C keys lined up vertically (it's also MIDI'ed to a set of Roland PK-5 pedals underneath). I either send it to a dedicated bass amp, or to a separate channel of my Motion Sound so I can EQ it differently from the organ. I often pair it with a SansAmp DI as well.

 

The Prologue is bitimbral, which is another way I've thought about getting some extra sounds, but since I'm amplifying it in a way that will emphasize it as a bass instrument, it's not the simplest solution.

 

 

[SamuelBLupowitz]

22 hours ago, ProfD said:

Akai MPC KEY37.  Game over.😎

 

1 hour ago, niacin said:

 

Yeah, thanks for turning me on to this, y'all! It's not in my budget at the moment of course, but it's very much the sort of thing I was looking for. Good to know!

[niacin]

I've been down this rabbit hole a few times and tbh I'm not sure you'll really find anything better than your Electro, I invariaby found 3 octaves just not quite enough - I'd find myself using the octave up or down button and then forget where it was at - and it's not that much bigger than a 4-octave board or controller.  But yes the MPC looks tempting 🤣 We can always rely on this forum to trigger GAS.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

Just now, niacin said:

I've been down this rabbit hole a few times and tbh I'm not sure you'll really find anything better than your Electro, I invariaby found 3 octaves just not quite enough - I'd find myself using the octave up or down button and then forget where it was at - and it's not much bigger than a 4-octave board or controller.  But yes the MPC looks tempting 🤣

Yeah, it's all little compromises and I figured it was worth brainstorming with the crew here! I'm playing left hand bass a lot, so three octaves is great in that instance. But I also play bass with the pedals, and if I wanted to do that while playing a two-handed piano part, I'm much better off doing what @D. Gauss suggested and just using one of the Mojo manuals to control a piano sound over MIDI (unless I want to go the full L-shaped setup like Eric Finland does in the video below).

 

 

[AnotherScott]

43 minutes ago, niacin said:

Not sure the KingKorg Neo 'll do piano or Mellotron, or a credible clav or Wurly for that matter. 

 

The original King Korg had a small rompler section with the essentials, it would have handled all that easily... but it does look like they removed that functionality from the Neo. 😞

[cbhathco]

2 hours ago, SamuelBLupowitz said:

I've got a Korg Prologue 8 that I've been using for bass, and that's on a stand above the Mojo with the low C keys lined up vertically (it's also MIDI'ed to a set of Roland PK-5 pedals underneath). I either send it to a dedicated bass amp, or to a separate channel of my Motion Sound so I can EQ it differently from the organ. I often pair it with a SansAmp DI as well.

 

The Prologue is bitimbral, which is another way I've thought about getting some extra sounds, but since I'm amplifying it in a way that will emphasize it as a bass instrument, it's not the simplest solution.

Valuable intel! Thanks, dude!

[J.F.N.]

3 hours ago, niacin said:

 

Thanks Luke, lol.  Not sure the KingKorg Neo 'll do piano or Mellotron, or a credible clav or Wurly for that matter.  If it's just synth the OP asked for sure there are plenty of 3-4 octave options.

 

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

The original King Korg had a small rompler section with the essentials, it would have handled all that easily... but it does look like they removed that functionality from the Neo. 😞

 

Incorrect, both of you. Yes, the PCM samples are still there on the Neo, and Yes, you can do credible electromechanical keys et al.

 

The factory presets are not amazing anyway (own the original KK), but I assume this community is not a place for players buying instruments for the presets...

 

 

[Paul Woodward]

Likely more than you want, but I have been down this rabbit hole and ended up buying different boards for different purposes. Cheap controller keyboard ended up with wires everywhere and then I wanted a better board for the studio. Always compromises somewhere but I’m hoping the Keystage will be the answer.

1. It connects via good old midi cable to my Grandstage so I can essentially use it as a full organ keyboard while the GS takes care of the piano with weighted keys

2. It connects to my DAW providing a cool way of interacting with gadget, Logic, Wavestate etc via midi 2.0

3. I connect my iPad with one cable to turn it into a ‘bread and butter’ Korg keyboard, with the advantage of loading up any sound engine (app) I want. Can even map the rotary knobs to drawbars. This makes it a second keyboard with sounds for gigs, small portable board for rehearsals/playing for fun. 

And I also have a keybed with poly aftertouch to explore more expressive playing of apps such as Wavestate, Pigments and Animoog.

It also looks decent and weighs just 5kg so ticks a lot of boxes for me right now. Explansion plate with the iPad makes it look like a mini Oasys…if you squint really hard. Oh, it also powers from the iPad so add a battery powered speaker and you have a wire free busking machine with all the backing you might need available on the iPad as well.

[AnotherScott]

31 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

Yes, the PCM samples are still there on the Neo

 

Ah. A quick look at the sound list in the manual didn't turn them up. (They are in the sound list for the original KK.)

 

It's interesting that the Neo lacks the Brass, Strings, Piano, and Key program categories of its predecessor, though I see that the waves available (when creating your own sounds) do include PCM samples (actually, more of them than the original KK did, though fewer DWGS waves). Surprisingly, Korg provides no list of what these PCM (or DWGS) waves are. So you're saying that the Neo still includes all the brass/string/piano/key samples, they just aren't presenting a library of preset sounds that use them?

 

31 minutes ago, J.F.N. said:

I assume this community is not a place for players buying instruments for the presets...

 

I wouldn't assume too much. 😉 Really, I think it's a mix. 

 

The original KK was primarily a VA synth, but there were also a bunch of instantly accessible bread and butter rompler sounds, making it easier for someone to get by with it as their only board. Even if the Neo still has the waves, I don't think it will maintain that particular appeal of the original if the only way to use those sounds is to program them yourself. But maybe they felt that that particular selling point was somewhat incongruous with a board that had only 37 keys to begin with.