Small mixer recommendation for live keys and vocals

[Dockeys]

Hi all,

 

I’m looking for some advice on getting a mixer with a small footprint for keyboards and vocals. 
 

I would need the following:

 

* 3 xlr inputs (3 vocalists)

* 2/3 other inputs for keys and tracks

* Built in effects, really just reverb for vocalists. 

* Outputs preferably xlr but 1/4” fine too. 

* As small as possible as it will invariably end up on top of my keyboard.

 

I used a Soundcraft notepad 12fx before which ticked most of these boxes but I never gelled with it. I currently use a Yamaha  MG06X which is short one xlr input. The larger version of this MG10X is close to what i want but marginally too deep. I also looked at the Mackie Mix12FX and Berhinger 1202SFX.
 

Just wanted to see if there were other ones out there that I may not have come across in my searches. Many thanks. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

I was going to recommend the MG10X/XU but you said that was a bit too deep. That’s my gig mixer, and I use a mic stand adapter to mount it to a mic stand base. Easy, small footprint.

[Dockeys]

Haven’t completely ruled out that Yamaha yet. I have the smaller MG06X and it’s very solid. I could look into a stand for the bigger one but it’s another piece of equipment to bring and il trying to keep stuff to a minimum. 

[D. Gauss]

I use the Yamaha MG10Xu mentioned above, but gonna buy one of these to replace it. It's an amazing piece of gear:

[Baldwin Funster]

3 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

I use the Yamaha MG10Xu mentioned above, but gonna buy one of these to replace it. It's an amazing piece of gear:

If this had an assignable or at least master fader I'd be interested. I like to use small mixers for a level boost when needed and a fader is much preferred over rotary or on screen controls.

[D. Gauss]

16 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:

If this had an assignable or at least master fader I'd be interested. I like to use small mixers for a level boost when needed and a fader is much preferred over rotary or on screen controls.

 

I own the older, larger, QU-pac mixer, and the rotary control for volumes has never been a problem.  Very responsive, and coupled with the visual of the on-screen fader (which of course you can also touch if you want), it works well. However, i mostly just use the mixing station app and either adjust things with my phone or an ipad. (btw, the "mixing station app" is NOT the lame one made by A&H.  It is 3rd party and supports almost ALL serious digital mixers.  A must-have IMO)

[JamieT]

The Behringer Flow 8 might be a good (and inexpensive) option. 
 https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0DNM

[Dockeys]

10 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

I use the Yamaha MG10Xu mentioned above, but gonna buy one of these to replace it. It's an amazing piece of gear:

That looks nice. Reminds me of the QSC touch mix. Bit too expensive for what I need though. 

[Dockeys]

2 hours ago, JamieT said:

The Behringer Flow 8 might be a good (and inexpensive) option. 
 https://www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0DNM

Yes I thought long and hard about the Flow as well. My only issue was a lot of its operations comes via the app and I don’t want to be in a position where the app crashes or isn’t supported anymore or a phone update renders it obsolete. Other than that it looks like great bang for your buck. 

[stoken6]

What are your maximum dimensions? Thomann's mixer section has a nice set of filters, including total channels/mic channels/XLR out. I put 3 mic/6 total/outputs on XLR/built-in FX and got this result (assuming the link pastes successfully): https://www.thomann.de/gb/analog_mixers.html?feature-57963-first=6&feature-57963-last=8&oa=pra&feature-57964-first=3&feature-57964-last=8&feature-57969[]=XLR&feature-57984-first=1&feature-57984-last=2&gk=PAMIAM&category[]=PAMIAM&cme=true&filter=true

 

Good luck.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Dockeys]

11 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

What are your maximum dimensions? Thomann's mixer section has a nice set of filters, including total channels/mic channels/XLR out. I put 3 mic/6 total/outputs on XLR/built-in FX and got this result (assuming the link pastes successfully): https://www.thomann.de/gb/analog_mixers.html?feature-57963-first=6&feature-57963-last=8&oa=pra&feature-57964-first=3&feature-57964-last=8&feature-57969[]=XLR&feature-57984-first=1&feature-57984-last=2&gk=PAMIAM&category[]=PAMIAM&cme=true&filter=true

 

Good luck.

 

Cheers, Mike.

Thanks, yes I did that exact search as well. Just nothing outside of what I had with the Notepad. Notepad was a lovely size but the layout constantly threw me if I had to look down and adjust something in a hurry on behalf of the vocalists. Thomann is great but it’s very European centric. Was just hoping there might have been something from an American/Canadian manufacturer that someone had used or that Thomann don’t stock. Maybe having 3 plus xlrs is a trade off of having a larger footprint.  🤷

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Dockeys said:

Maybe having 3 plus xlrs is a trade off of having a larger footprint

Separate mic pre for XLR 3 and 4? Hide it on the floor or velcroed to the back of your stand somewhere? 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[D. Gauss]

5 hours ago, Dockeys said:

Yes I thought long and hard about the Flow as well. My only issue was a lot of its operations comes via the app and I don’t want to be in a position where the app crashes or isn’t supported anymore or a phone update renders it obsolete. Other than that it looks like great bang for your buck. 

 

The flow 8 concept is awesome, but not so much in practice. Couple problems with the Flow 8.  First/foremost, the crappy, breaks/weakens if you look at it funny, micro USB connection for the power. WTF are they thinking?  2nd, you get two "decent" preamps, plus two shitty ones.  If/when a version 2 comes out, maybe.

[D. Gauss]

5 hours ago, Dockeys said:

  Maybe having 3 plus xlrs is a trade off of having a larger footprint.  🤷

 

Seriously, any of the digital mixers that are supported by the "Mixing Station App" (Behringer X series, Yamaha, A&H, Midas, etc),  you don't have to have the mixer anywhere near you. Just use your phone or an IPAD. Mixing Station is sooo comprehensive and well thought out it's a cinch to control everything with ease.  I have a regular weeky NYC for the past 15 years.  Sometimes the house soundman disappears to go get high/laid or whatever, and there's no one in the booth.  Mid song, i can whip out my phone and change things at will with ease.   For anybody reading this, if you have a digital mixer, make sure you get Mixing Station (it's pro level, powerful and cheap):

https://mixingstation.app/

 

 

[harmonizer]

If you are running the mixing board yourself at a gig, while you are playing an instrument, I would want the mixing board to have physical faders.

 

It's one thing to look at and adjust virtual faders on a screen while at rehearsal, but a different thing to deal with this while juggling responsibilities at a live gig.

[Dockeys]

2 minutes ago, harmonizer said:

If you are running the mixing board yourself at a gig, while you are playing an instrument, I would want the mixing board to have physical faders.

 

It's one thing to look at and adjust virtual faders on a screen while at rehearsal, but a different thing to deal with this while juggling responsibilities at a live gig.

Yes it’s one reason I’d prefer real faders as I do a lot of adjusting while playing. Again this is for the vocals and not for keys. I just set and forget for my own stuff. Vocalists tend to be more picky and are constantly asking for adjustments. 

[D. Gauss]

1 hour ago, Dockeys said:

Yes it’s one reason I’d prefer real faders as I do a lot of adjusting while playing. Again this is for the vocals and not for keys. I just set and forget for my own stuff. Vocalists tend to be more picky and are constantly asking for adjustments. 

 

easy peasy, but have to spend more cash.  Buy this (below), put it on your keyboard (it's even magnetic) next to your phone/ipad, and control "Mixing Station" which in turn controls the digital mixer.   I've done similar, but soon found I didn't need to, as the ipad touch screen itself worked just fine.  

 

 

 

[MartinLeo]

Soundcraft Notepad 12FX any good?

[Sam Mullins]

1 hour ago, MartinLeo said:

Soundcraft Notepad 12FX any good?

I’ve had good luck with mine. Decent sounding, small footprint and the right set of features for my duo use case (two vocal mics, guitar, two keyboards, stereo mains, one monitor). 

[Dockeys]

2 hours ago, MartinLeo said:

Soundcraft Notepad 12FX any good?

As per my intro thread I had a Notepad 12FX but I sold it last year. Its footprint was great for what you got but I didn’t like the interface. Kept turning wrong knobs when I had to adjust on the fly and at short notice while trying to play as well. Just been through loads of other possibilities and it seems there’s little out there that matches the 12FX for band for buck as well as being very compact. I was hoping there were other manufacturers that may have had something similar. Guess I’ll have to bite the bullet and look for another notepad. Ah well….

[Sam Mullins]

23 minutes ago, Dockeys said:

As per my intro thread I had a Notepad 12FX but I sold it last year. Its footprint was great for what you got but I didn’t like the interface. Kept turning wrong knobs when I had to adjust on the fly and at short notice while trying to play as well. Just been through loads of other possibilities and it seems there’s little out there that matches the 12FX for band for buck as well as being very compact. I was hoping there were other manufacturers that may have had something similar. Guess I’ll have to bite the bullet and look for another notepad. Ah well….

I will say that my use case is mostly set at sound check and only occasionally tweak between songs. So the adjust on the fly issue you cite isn’t as much an issue for me…but may be for others. 

[Dockeys]

Yeah I loved its footprint but it might sound weird but anytime i had to adjust the channels from 5 onwards i was thrown…possibly because channels 1-4 knobs align all the way up the desk to the input. Theres a gap from channel 5 onwards. Maybe it’s a spatial thing with me but when glancing down while playing it threw me several times. Enough to turn the wrong knob. 
 

I should say I also use a Yamaha MG06x in emergencies for same lineup with three vocals. I have to put one vocals through my MODX keys as only channels 1 & 2 have effects like reverb. If anyone knew of a desk that has maybe 2 xlrs and the remainder 1/4 inch that might suffice as well so long as the 1/4 inch channels have access to an eq and effects as well. 
 

I do appreciate all the replies so far by the way. 👍

[Werno]

As a Flow8 owner I'm not sure why folks are in such a hurry to diss a unit that checks off every OP requirement. I paid $300 for my Flow 8 and here's what I got:

 

It has a tiny footprint, actual sliders, 4 xlrs (two of which are (allegedly) higher-spec w/phantom power, the other two on combo jacks also seem fine to me) each with their own slider, 4 TRS inputs as 2 stereo pairs, one of each pair lo-z, each pair on a slider; 2 built-in effects engines; automatic gain setting for all 8 inputs, 2 independent stereo linkable TRS monitor outs, stereo bluetooth input with its own level knob, a 10-out/4-in 'compliant' (phone or tablet compatible) USB interface, and a tiny display w/adjustment knob for many setttings in case you can't or prefer not to use the bluetooth-linked app.

 

That's before you turn on the app, whereby you gain control of high-pass filters, panning, and compression on all inputs, likewise 4-band or full parametric eq everywhere, limiters on outputs, pre/post switching on the aux outs...

 

A complete setup can be stored and recalled, either on the mixer or in the app, and recall can be category-limited if you just want to grab a portion of a stored setup.

 

It's a lot for $300. I mostly use mine for rehearsals and to independently control volume on my monitor mix, and I have mixed a friend's acoustic quartet through mine with good results. The bluetooth app worked great as I sat in the audience, sipped wine and tweaked. 

 

The USB power connector is not the most robust possible, but it'll work with any number of USB chargers and portable batteries. I have other external power supplies I've used for decades that are at least as worrisome as potential points of failure, usually being careful is enough

[nursers]

13 minutes ago, Werno said:

As a Flow8 owner I'm not sure why folks are in such a hurry to diss a unit that checks off every OP requirement. I paid $300 for my Flow 8 and here's what I got:

 

I may have missed it, but only saw one very polite comment from the OP saying he wants to avoid using a digital app for control. Haven't seen any dissing at all but again may have missed it.

[D. Gauss]

1 hour ago, Werno said:

 

 

 

The USB power connector is not the most robust possible 

 

Indeed.  Here is a fix (make sure to read comments).  You're lucky, but the micro USB connections are very prone to fail.

 

 

 

 

[Dockeys]

18 hours ago, Werno said:

As a Flow8 owner I'm not sure why folks are in such a hurry to diss a unit that checks off every OP requirement. I paid $300 for my Flow 8 and here's what I got:

 

It has a tiny footprint, actual sliders, 4 xlrs (two of which are (allegedly) higher-spec w/phantom power, the other two on combo jacks also seem fine to me) each with their own slider, 4 TRS inputs as 2 stereo pairs, one of each pair lo-z, each pair on a slider; 2 built-in effects engines; automatic gain setting for all 8 inputs, 2 independent stereo linkable TRS monitor outs, stereo bluetooth input with its own level knob, a 10-out/4-in 'compliant' (phone or tablet compatible) USB interface, and a tiny display w/adjustment knob for many setttings in case you can't or prefer not to use the bluetooth-linked app.

 

That's before you turn on the app, whereby you gain control of high-pass filters, panning, and compression on all inputs, likewise 4-band or full parametric eq everywhere, limiters on outputs, pre/post switching on the aux outs...

 

A complete setup can be stored and recalled, either on the mixer or in the app, and recall can be category-limited if you just want to grab a portion of a stored setup.

 

It's a lot for $300. I mostly use mine for rehearsals and to independently control volume on my monitor mix, and I have mixed a friend's acoustic quartet through mine with good results. The bluetooth app worked great as I sat in the audience, sipped wine and tweaked. 

 

The USB power connector is not the most robust possible, but it'll work with any number of USB chargers and portable batteries. I have other external power supplies I've used for decades that are at least as worrisome as potential points of failure, usually being careful is enough

Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes the Flow was on my list..right up there in fact. The power cable didn’t bother me as I’d always carry a spare but I was afraid that if the app ceased to be supported I’d be left with a mixer of limited use as from what I could research the bulk of the effects are only accessible via the app? Do you know if you can assign reverb or eq to the channels without the app? Thank you. 

[D. Gauss]

1 hour ago, Dockeys said:

 The power cable didn’t bother me as I’d always carry a spare 

 

 

the cable isn't the issue. the micro USB jack inside the mixer gets loose and then tears out of the PCB circuit board.

[Dockeys]

Ok, good to know. 

[MPN21]

19 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

 

Indeed.  Here is a fix (make sure to read comments).  You're lucky, but the micro USB connections are very prone to fail.

 

Great info.  I didn't know such cables existed.  I think the mini USB connector is much worse than the micro.  I had a Softstep midi foot controller with a mini usb power connector.  The connector broke and even a professional tech person couldn't solder it.  I have a Line6 wireless system that has a micro USB connection, which makes me nervous every time I use it.   I bought this USB magnetic cable. 

 

[Werno]

10 hours ago, Dockeys said:

Thanks for the detailed reply. Yes the Flow was on my list..right up there in fact. The power cable didn’t bother me as I’d always carry a spare but I was afraid that if the app ceased to be supported I’d be left with a mixer of limited use as from what I could research the bulk of the effects are only accessible via the app? Do you know if you can assign reverb or eq to the channels without the app? Thank you. 

 

The reverb/delay effects can be chosen and adjusted from the board, while eqs, hi-pass filters, compressors, and limiters' adjustments are only accessible within the app but are stored in recallable setups- which can be saved/recalled directly in the unit, or stored and recalled from the app. The dozen (or more?) setups that can be recalled directly from the unit can be stepped through with a footswitch, or you can choose to use the footswitch to mute effects for stage patter. A short tap on the 'mute' button has the same Efx muting effect, a longer press mutes everything and makes every light on the unit flash.

 

In the photo I posted above the yellow 'main' button is lit, meaning that the sliders and the green-light-ringed knob are controlling the main mix. Just above that lit button are 2 other pairs of buttons- push one of the upper pair and the sliders and knob will act as sends and output respectively for an effect engine, push either of the two right above the lit one and you're setting levels for one of the aux buses. The green light ring will change to reflect the output level of the currently active bus- Efx 1 or 2, Aux 1 or 2, or main. Not a motorized fader, but it immediately shows the output level of the selected bus as you switch between them.

 

A yellow light at the top of each slider lights when its position isn't aligned with the level of its channel for the currently selected bus; said slider has no effect until you move it to/thru the current value, at which point the light goes out and it takes control of the level.  The tiny little illuminated display also shows a graphic display of the slider's position in relation to the current value as soon as you move a slider, so there's guidance as to which direction and how far you have to move it before it has an effect. Again, not a motorized fader but it gives you guidance and gets to be intuitive pretty fast. 

 

Re relying on an app, I have an 'old' phone my daughter outgrew that runs the app, so I'm using it as a 'dedicated' remote control; as long as I don't update the OS, drop it down a stairwell or plop it into a toilet it's likely to be usable for the foreseeable future. 

 

Didn't mean to rewrite the manual, but FWIW that's how it works.