OT? Tape for charts

[Floyd Tatum]

Is this off-topic?  Not sure...

For those of you that have to deal with multi-page charts, the paper kind, not the pixel kind (that's a whole other discussion).

What kind of tape do you use for charts?

Masking tape must be common, I would think.  One thing with masking tape, I've find that over time (like, after years in a filing cabinet), it dries out and un-attaches from the paper.

Scotch tape, no way.  

Ever try "artist's tape"?  They use it for framing art, I think. I've tried it, it's pretty good, I think it could be thinner, though.  Not the easiest to find.

Do you tape both sides of the fold, or just one?

Have any suggestions for other kinds of tape?

[NKB4691]

I'm curious why you're averse to scotch tape. I've used magic tape for decades and never had any problems with it. I tape one side, usually the back side.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Floyd Tatum said:

Ever try "artist's tape"?  They use it for framing art, I think. I've tried it, it's pretty good, I think it could be thinner, though.  Not the easiest to find.

I've seen "artist's tape" recommended by transcribers, music librarians etc for this purpose.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Floyd Tatum]

14 minutes ago, NKB4691 said:

I'm curious why you're averse to scotch tape. I've used magic tape for decades and never had any problems with it. I tape one side, usually the back side.

It's possible I have an unjust prejudice against scotch tape, based on the original scotch tape, which didn't bend easily.   Maybe I should give magic tape another try.    How does it stand up over time?

One thing about artist's tape is that if you need to re-do something, you can get it off without wrecking the paper, if you're careful.

[JamPro]

For the large 10-page big band charts, I will tape the pages edge to edge using scotch tape and then fold them accordion style.  The scotch tape does bend, but not as nicely as paper.  What I find with this method is that some pieces of scotch tape will simply split along the fold, and I must then re-tape it.  Otherwise it works.

 

My problem with charts made like this is a windy outdoors stage.  The horn players use a clear plastic sheet and lay it over the music on the stand: this holds the music in place regardless of wind.  But the horn players' 2-page chart translates into a 10-page piano chart.  I need to flip back and forth thru those 10 pages to deal with repeat sections, and the horn players don't need to do that (everything they need to see is displayed on their 2-page chart).  I've had to play windy outdoor gigs with one hand holding the sheet music in place and one hand playing the piano.  It is sub-optimal.  The best solution I can see is to memorize the chart.  A mobile digital device (ipad) could also work, but would require a lot of flipping thru digital pages.

[D. Gauss]

blue painters tape.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, JamPro said:

A mobile digital device (ipad) could also work, but would require a lot of flipping thru digital pages.

Bluetooth pedal?

 

But yeah, most musos have it easier than us when it comes to reading.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[JamPro]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

Bluetooth pedal?

 

But yeah, most musos have it easier than us when it comes to reading.

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

Yeah - I don't know how the pros do it - they must memorize the charts for outdoors shows.  Even using an ipad with a foot-controlled page advancer will still require lots of page flipping - get to pg. 6 where the repeat is, page back to pg 2 where the repeat section starts, after the section, advance to pg 8 for the end. 

[PianoMan51]

I’m playing in two big bands, so lots of 7 page charts. Scotch tape breaks after a few dozen uses. And destroys the paper if you try to remove it.

 

This is my second order of art tape. Very flexible and can be removed.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0BX36S6NJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Youtube has some instructions on how to use. Basically you alternate taping the front and back sides so that the sticky part of the tape between the pages always folds inwards. Otherwise that sticky edge will glue the pages together like an old Penthouse at summer camp.

[jerrythek]

16 minutes ago, JamPro said:

 

Yeah - I don't know how the pros do it - they must memorize the charts for outdoors shows.  Even using an ipad with a foot-controlled page advancer will still require lots of page flipping - get to pg. 6 where the repeat is, page back to pg 2 where the repeat section starts, after the section, advance to pg 8 for the end. 

Not to digress, but some of the score readers have functions for this... UnRealbook has "hot spots" that you can touch and they go to a pre-determined page/spot. Good for those repeats, D.C/D.S. al Coda things.

[JoJoB3]

Perfessionalz use tape made by AVID exclusively.  It's a subscription but who wants to 'own' their tape?

+1 painters tape

[jarrell]

I use Scotch Super Hold tape - it's much better than regular scotch tape. I tape just the backside, about a 4" strip on both the top and the bottom. I have never had a chart need retaping (yet). I also use 28 lb. paper - much better than the standard 20 lb paper most people use. Having said all that, I plan to move to UnRealbook at some point. As jerrythek says, you can use hotspots, or just unroll your digital chart (instead of jumping back to the D.S., just add it as the next page, same for coda).

[Coker]

I used to use Scotch tape, but found that it would split over time. Recently I realized that Scotch tape has a grain to it that makes it easy to split lengthwise by practically impossible to break lengthwise. I now just tape in the back in three places, but using the tape counterintuitively across the page gap, not along the page gap, if that makes sense.

 

i did try cloth medical tape for awhile, but found that the opposing pages glued themselves together over time.

[Coker]

Slightly OT, but I use a foldable music desk that I clip to my music stand that can display six pages at once. It is made of paper-covered plastic foam and folds up to about 10x10x0.75 inches. It weighs almost nothing. 

[Floyd Tatum]

I was hoping to keep this thread about paper charts if we could, thanks.   Not that there's anything wrong with the other kind (although I prefer seeing as many pages as possible), but it helps to have a focus.

 

[Floyd Tatum]

10 hours ago, JamPro said:

My problem with charts made like this is a windy outdoors stage.  The horn players use a clear plastic sheet and lay it over the music on the stand: this holds the music in place regardless of wind.  But the horn players' 2-page chart translates into a 10-page piano chart.  I need to flip back and forth thru those 10 pages to deal with repeat sections, and the horn players don't need to do that.

I've also had to deal with that.  Here is my solution (aside from memorizing, which is ok if you have a super memory, which I don't!).

1) First, a Manhasset stand.  I like the Voyager model - it comes apart, and the bottom part folds up (easier to transport). 

Having a Manhasset stand means you can purchase...

2) Stand-Outs for Manhasset stand.   They're specifically designed to attach to the sides of Manhasset stands, making them wider by up to 6 to 7 inches on either side.  I think they only fit Manhassets.  They slide in and out, so when not in use, they're the same size as a normal stand.   If you need something even wider, I guess you could use two stands.

3) A wide piece of plexiglass is the way to go for windy outdoor gigs.  Yes, it's difficult to flip to DS's and Codas, but you just have to get used to that.

 

[Floyd Tatum]

1 hour ago, Coker said:

I did try cloth medical tape for awhile, but found that the opposing pages glued themselves together over time.

Someone else I know just recommend medical tape.  I've never tried that, but I think I'll give it a try.

It seems to me that having opposing pages glue themselves together is just a drawback of tape in general, although I imagine some kinds of tape are better or worse for that.   I would think that, as far as pages gluing themselves together, medical, masking and artist tape are probably worst (order?), and magic tape (that's the 'invisible' scotch tape) is probably the best (although I'm guessing)

 

[Motif88]

Painters Tape!

 

https://www.frogtape.com/products/delicate-surface-painters-tape

 

Now, I'm going to put on my hat...

 

 

[Floyd Tatum]

1 hour ago, Coker said:

Slightly OT, but I use a foldable music desk that I clip to my music stand that can display six pages at once. It is made of paper-covered plastic foam and folds up to about 10x10x0.75 inches. It weighs almost nothing. 

That sounds interesting, never heard of that.   I googled "foldable music desk" but got nothing.   Could you link to an ad for one them?  Thanks.

[Floyd Tatum]

Just now, Motif88 said:

Painters Tape!   https://www.frogtape.com/products/delicate-surface-painters-tape

Sounds interesting, I'd like to try that.

[Floyd Tatum]

7 hours ago, PianoMan51 said:

This is my second order of art tape. Very flexible and can be removed.

I'm a fan of artist tape, and have used it a lot.   I'm still hoping there's something even better out there!

[schmalex]

7 hours ago, JamPro said:

 

Yeah - I don't know how the pros do it - they must memorize the charts for outdoors shows.  Even using an ipad with a foot-controlled page advancer will still require lots of page flipping - get to pg. 6 where the repeat is, page back to pg 2 where the repeat section starts, after the section, advance to pg 8 for the end. 

I use an iPad w/ bluetooth pedal (Pageflip Firefly), but I almost always remove all of the repeat sections in any songs over 2 pages and lay everything out in order so that I just have to go forward and not backwards.

[elif]

No tape.  I glue sheets together with a slight overlap (~3/16") using Elmer's Disappearing Purple School Glue Stick.

[schmalex]

2 hours ago, Floyd Tatum said:

I've also had to deal with that.  Here is my solution (aside from memorizing, which is ok if you have a super memory, which I don't!).

1) First, a Manhasset stand.  I like the Voyager model - it comes apart, and the bottom part folds up (easier to transport). 

Having a Manhasset stand means you can purchase...

2) Stand-Outs for Manhasset stand.   They're specifically designed to attach to the sides of Manhasset stands, making them wider by up to 6 to 7 inches on either side.  I think they only fit Manhassets.  They slide in and out, so when not in use, they're the same size as a normal stand.   If you need something even wider, I guess you could use two stands.

3) A wide piece of plexiglass is the way to go for windy outdoor gigs.  Yes, it's difficult to flip to DS's and Codas, but you just have to get used to that.

 

I hadn't heard of the stand-outs before, though the Manhasset stand that I have is one of the Fourscore stands, which is already 32" wide as is.

[Floyd Tatum]

36 minutes ago, schmalex said:

I hadn't heard of the stand-outs before, though the Manhasset stand that I have is one of the Fourscore stands, which is already 32" wide as is.

The Fourscore looks like the Stand-Outs will fit on it.   If you added those, you'd have the widest music stand in the history of mankind!   And like I mentioned before, when not in use, they slide all the way in, and don't add any width.   They're plastic so they add almost no weight to the stand.  I guess it sounds like I get a commission every time one of these gets sold, I wish I did.

[Floyd Tatum]

On 2/23/2024 at 7:12 AM, PianoMan51 said:

This is my second order of art tape. Very flexible and can be removed.

Youtube has some instructions on how to use. Basically you alternate taping the front and back sides so that the sticky part of the tape between the pages always folds inwards. Otherwise that sticky edge will glue the pages together like an old Penthouse at summer camp.

Do you have a link to that YouTube instructional video?  (About taping charts, I mean 🙂)

[Brad Kaenel]

On 2/23/2024 at 4:35 AM, JamPro said:

My problem with charts made like this is a windy outdoors stage.  The horn players use a clear plastic sheet and lay it over the music on the stand: this holds the music in place regardless of wind.  But the horn players' 2-page chart translates into a 10-page piano chart.  I need to flip back and forth thru those 10 pages to deal with repeat sections, and the horn players don't need to do that (everything they need to see is displayed on their 2-page chart).  I've had to play windy outdoor gigs with one hand holding the sheet music in place and one hand playing the piano.

I've never been one of those players that preferred to have a whole multi-page chart laid out in front of me, nor someone who used live "page-turner" helpers at recitals and such (though it was always so gracious for them to offer).  From my very first lessons, my teacher required me to turn my own pages -- if that meant taking my hands off the keyboard to do it, so be it. I've always been thankful for being forced to learn to read ahead, "memorize" a few bars on the fly, and play those while I flip pages.  Two pages visible has always been enough, and is my preferred way of playing long charts.

 

So, all that said, I always set my music up, double-sided, in sheet protectors in a 3-ring binder.  This has always worked for me: big band, broadway musicals, classical recitals. Especially nice outdoors where the extra weight of the sheet protectors mitigates the wind blowing things around.  I usually get these: Avery Non-Glare Sheet Protectors, but other thicknesses and sizes are available (and, yes, I get that most published charts are larger than 8 1/2 X 11)

 

This might work for you, depending on the nature and size of the charts you're working with.

 

TIP: In a sheet protector, I can make notes "on the music" using a dry-erase marker pen -- which I can then wipe clean without marking up my originals permanently.

[Floyd Tatum]

3 hours ago, Brad Kaenel said:

-snip-

So, all that said, I always set my music up, double-sided, in sheet protectors in a 3-ring binder.  This has always worked for me: big band, broadway musicals, classical recitals. Especially nice outdoors where the extra weight of the sheet protectors mitigates the wind blowing things around.  I usually get these: Avery Non-Glare Sheet Protectors, but other thicknesses and sizes are available (and, yes, I get that most published charts are larger than 8 1/2 X 11)

-snip-

Kudos!  I've always admired people that could do that - read ahead two bars and flip their own pages with ease.   Best I can do is about half a bar 😃.  I've heard people recommend that system before - sheet protectors in a 3-ring binder.  I should give it a try one of these days.  So, when you get music larger than 8 1/2 x 11, do you reduce the size with a photocopier?

 

[obxa]

I've used post-it tape for years.  Wonderful stuff.   Just strong enough to hold, but not too permanent.  I use the thinner widths to paste over dropped sections, or write in corrections/edits  on paper charts.  I also use varying widths all over my keyboards for show patch changes. 

 

 https://www.amazon.com/Post-Removable-Cover-Up-Non-Refillable-Packs/dp/B002ZZ0DLO/ref=asc_df_B002ZZ0DLO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=642100484307&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15832121136525468006&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010869&hvtargid=pla-1083985979495&psc=1&mcid=81531827e90339a59dbecbd4a1c6feb1

 

 

 

These days I mostly get  pdfs, but still do several  pit shows where they ask for the "book" back.  I learned the hard way not to mark those up or use any tape that might damage. 🤪  That said, if it's not digital already,whenever possible I'll scan it myself and use forscore. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Floyd Tatum]

1 hour ago, obxa said:

I've used post-it tape for years.  Wonderful stuff.   Just strong enough to hold, but not too permanent.  I use the thinner widths to paste over dropped sections, or write in corrections/edits  on paper charts.  I also use varying widths all over my keyboards for show patch changes. 

 

 https://www.amazon.com/Post-Removable-Cover-Up-Non-Refillable-Packs/dp/B002ZZ0DLO/ref=asc_df_B002ZZ0DLO/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=642100484307&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15832121136525468006&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010869&hvtargid=pla-1083985979495&psc=1&mcid=81531827e90339a59dbecbd4a1c6feb1

 

That Post-it Labelling and Cover-up tape looks very useful.   Added to my "To Buy" list  🙂

 

Your second link doesn't work for me, I get an "Access Denied" message .... ?