SMcD Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Sorry for the second stand thread in as many days. Following a recent disappointing purchase from Quik Lok, I spent much of today researching other stands and decided to see about ordering the universally-lauded K&M 18880. Long & McQuade (the biggest music retailer in Canada) had other K&M products listed on their site, but nothing in the way of keyboard stands (mainly just sheet music and horn stands). Even the other online Canadian retailers that did have their KB stands seemed to have everything except the 18880. Even Sweetwater seemed to be out of stock. Finally, I called L&M to see if they could special-order me one. They would've been able to, for the low price of $260 CAD...until the guy on the phone checked their systems and discovered that the 18880 has been discontinued. Needless to say, this came as quite an unpleasant surprise. From what I've heard, the stand is basically invincible, which is miraculous given its weight. Has anyone heard anything about this, or am I breaking the news here? For now, I ordered a Hercules KS410B for my other board (second tier for stages that are too small to admit my preferred L-shaped setup). I'm tempted to get two, but I was really hoping to get the 18880 as my second stand, as its lightness/compactness would make the Car-Tetris a lot easier. Off to Amazon and eBay, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean M. H. Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 That's...somewhat surprising. On the one hand, it gets great reviews, and is pretty much without rival when it comes to the elusive combination of 1)stability/sturdiness, 2) ease of setup/transport, and 3) lightweightedness ...but on the other hand...I have literally never seen anyone besides me using one in the wild in my area...everyone seems content to tolerate the compromises inherent with x-stands and colum/apex stands around here...so there's that 🥴 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcD Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 It is certainly a boutique item. Folks less picky than ourselves probably don't mind the apparent decline in Quik Lok manufacturing. Hell, X-stands are ubiquitous in my neck of the woods. 😬 I did just manage to put in an order for a 18880 from thomann.de, which apparently still has them in stock. Surprisingly, even with a hefty international shipping charge the total cost worked out to about $230 CAD, which is a lot less than I expected to pay for this thing. Now we just hope that nothing goes wrong with the order, and then hope that (knock every type of wood you can find) nothing goes wrong with the shipment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean M. H. Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Not to stray off-topic...but this thread just reminds me, again, how much keyboard stands generally suck...and how few innovative designs there's been over the years! Because as much as I love my 18880 (well the two-tier version in my case), even it is far from ideal. My biggest complaint is that while it's super easy to set up at the gig--it's a pain if you ever need to adjust it's height (i.e. if you need to go from sitting to standing from gig to gig). Believe it actually requires a tool, IIRC... Also, its lightweight construction inherently has some wobble, at least until you get some weight on it (pairing it with a super light board could be problematic). ...and yet... for many of us, this is about as good as it gets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcD Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 Shit. I was hoping for a wobble reduction relative to the apparently-shoddily-constructed WS/550 I just bought. All of the discussion on this forum indicated the 18880 would be super-stable, so it seemed like a slam dunk. I'll either be pairing it with my Kurzweil PC4 (26 pounds) or my Hammond SKX (38 pounds). One's going on the K&M and one's going on the Hercules, and I'll have to figure out which configuration makes more sense once I have both the stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean M. H. Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 minute ago, SMcD said: Shit. I was hoping for a wobble reduction relative to the apparently-shoddily-constructed WS/550 I just bought. All of the discussion on this forum indicated it'd be super-stable, so it seemed like a slam dunk. I'll either be pairing it with my Kurzweil PC4 (26 pounds) or my Hammond SKX (38 pounds). One's going on the K&M and one's going on the Hercules, and I'll have to figure out which configuration makes more sense once I have both the stands. I use mine with a PC4 on the bottom, probably 80% of the time. I don't think you will have a problem there--as whatever wobble is left with the PC4 in place is not something that interferes with my playing or crosses my mind during a gig. There is also some chance that my unit has loosened up over time and needs some TLC...but I'm pretty sure there was some side to side wobble there, even from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcD Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 Ah well. The WS/550 came out of the box with the kind of wobble you could hear. Realistically it couldn't have been more than a centimeter of movement, but I said in the other thread, I'd like to think that when you buy a stand you should be able to play some rollicking Nicky Hopkins piano parts without making a PC4 visibly shake. I managed to reduce the wobble pretty significantly with some strategically-applied duct tape, but the downside is that, with the added resistance, you can't adjust the leg height without some serious force. Surely the 18880 will be an improvement from that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Woodward Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Ironically I'm selling a brand new set (18880, 18881 and 19791 tablet holder) in the UK and no interest as of yet. Quote Korg Grandstage 73, Keystage 61, Mac Mini M1, Logic Pro X (Pigments, Korg Legacy Collection, Wavestate LE, Sylenth), iPad Pro 12.9 M2 (6th gen), iPad 9th gen, Scarlett 2i2, Presonus Eris E3.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibarch Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 27 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said: Ironically I'm selling a brand new set (18880, 18881 and 19791 tablet holder) in the UK and no interest as of yet. Admit it, this whole thread is an advertising feature? Making me think again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Wright Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 ??? I get them from Thomann shipped to Canada. I see no evidence that they are discontinued. YMMV It's a top 100 seller for them. It might just be off L&M's deck. https://www.k-m.de/en/products/keyboard-stands/keyboard-tables/18880-table-style-keyboard-stand-black?c=171 https://www.thomann.de/gb/km_18880.htm Quote "I cried when I wrote this song Sue me if I play too long" Walter Becker Donald Fagan 1977 Deacon Blues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polychrest Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 I’ve ordered KM stuff from these guys in the past. It sometimes takes a while to get here. https://www.avshop.ca/cases-amp-racks-keyboard-cases-amp-stands/k18880-keyboard-stand Quote "The more a man looks at a thing, the less he can see it, and the more a man learns a thing, the less he knows it." --G.K. Chesterton. A lazy rationalization for not practising as much as I should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 I'm disappointed that K&M is no longer available from Thomann for those of us in the US. I might have made a few more purchases if I had known that was coming. Yes, shipping is high, but for a stand like my Omega Pro I still saved a bunch of money. (And if you order a bunch of things in one order, the shipping doesn't tend to increase per-item, it might even go down a bit). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcD Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 Yeah, I was quite surprised to see that they ship to Canada but not the US. I was expecting it to be the other way around. Perhaps someone at L&M is misinformed. Either way, soon I'll have one, and I better love it because I'm not returning it overseas. 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Woodward Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 7 hours ago, Ibarch said: Admit it, this whole thread is an advertising feature? Making me think again. I’m over in Leeds in a few weeks as well 😉 Quote Korg Grandstage 73, Keystage 61, Mac Mini M1, Logic Pro X (Pigments, Korg Legacy Collection, Wavestate LE, Sylenth), iPad Pro 12.9 M2 (6th gen), iPad 9th gen, Scarlett 2i2, Presonus Eris E3.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, Stokely said: I'm disappointed that K&M is no longer available from Thomann for those of us in the US. I found this out to be true myself recently. I wanted to buy a second tier for one of my stands. I now have the opportunity to pay an extra US $100 over Thomann's price if I buy it in the USA. Just for a second tier add on. Went another direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobi Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 2/16/2024 at 6:08 AM, SMcD said: the 18880 has been discontinued. Not in Europe, you can find it even on Amazon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyBoy Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I have their 18810 with my Montage M8x. LOVE this stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesB3 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 I bought my 18880 and 18881 last year from Amazon uk but thru the US site. I don't know how that works but it saved me money over US prices. I don't mind paying more for goods from democratic societies, but I don't think it should be extremely out of whack with exchange rates 😕. 1 Quote Yamaha CP73; 145 gig Leslie; Nord Electro 61; Oberheim OB3^2; Wurlitzer 200A; Ampeg Gemini I amp; Speakeasy Leslie preamp; QSC K-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassdad Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Yeah, I’ll add one more kudos for the K&M 18810 / 18820. I have both, love ‘em, and they are rock solid. Quote Ludwig van Beethoven: “To play a wrong note is insignificant; to play without passion is inexcusable.” My Rig: Yamaha MOXF8 (used mostly for acoustic piano voices); Motion Sound KP-612SX & SL-512. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obxa Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Guessing Thomann now not doing K&M is to protect USA dealers? Previously got K&M and Crumar stuff from them when my usual sources were going to have to special order or simply couldn't get. With international shipping it was still cheaper. Yamaha or Nord are understandably not allowed either. Reminds me of the days when dealers couldn't sell Fender and Gibson in the same store, or Tascam and Fostex Quote Chris Corso www.chriscorso.org Lots of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elif Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 12 hours ago, obxa said: Guessing Thomann now not doing K&M is to protect USA dealers? Previously got K&M and Crumar stuff from them when my usual sources were going to have to special order or simply couldn't get. With international shipping it was still cheaper. Yamaha or Nord are understandably not allowed either. Reminds me of the days when dealers couldn't sell Fender and Gibson in the same store, or Tascam and Fostex I bought a Behringer X32 from Thomann at a great savings, however, the unit would have to be shipped back to Thomann for warranty repair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam6599643 Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 The 18880 has been around for quite a while, seems to have sold well - and so they pop up regularly on the used market, if you keep an eye out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Woodward Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 10 hours ago, sam6599643 said: The 18880 has been around for quite a while, seems to have sold well - and so they pop up regularly on the used market, if you keep an eye out. Anyone in the UK looking, I have a new ungigged set with the tablet holder. Quote Korg Grandstage 73, Keystage 61, Mac Mini M1, Logic Pro X (Pigments, Korg Legacy Collection, Wavestate LE, Sylenth), iPad Pro 12.9 M2 (6th gen), iPad 9th gen, Scarlett 2i2, Presonus Eris E3.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stokely Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 2/18/2024 at 9:38 AM, elif said: I bought a Behringer X32 from Thomann at a great savings, however, the unit would have to be shipped back to Thomann for warranty repair. This is the reason I tend to only buy what I considered "safe" things from Thomann. Like K&M keyboard stands and extra bits Obviously anything can break or need repair so I just applied good ol "gut feeling" to it and tried to imagine chances of the thing needed to be returned. The US prices on K&M stuff are ludicrous. I shoulda bought more stuff while the getting was good! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcD Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 My 18880 came in from Thomann today. Impressively fast shipping given the distance. First of all, I love how light this thing is. What an engineering marvel. Super easy to collapse and transport, and plenty of pedal room too. I'll express the usual frustrations about the difficulty of adjusting the height. Unfortunately, @Sean M. H.'s warning about a little bit of side-to-side wobble wastrue, and my PC4 does jiggle a bit if I hit it real hard (especially towards the ends of the keyboard). My instinct was to tighten everything on the stand as much as I could before using it, but that didn't fully eliminate wobble. Is it possible that over-tightening the stand could exacerbate wobble? Like, maybe it needs to have a little "give" for shock absorption? Not sure if that theory makes any sense or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mate stubb Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 I ended up putting extra diagonal bracing on mine to make it rock solid. Quote Moe --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 2/16/2024 at 12:37 AM, Sean M. H. said: My biggest complaint is that while it's super easy to set up at the gig--it's a pain if you ever need to adjust it's height (i.e. if you need to go from sitting to standing from gig to gig). Believe it actually requires a tool, IIRC... 1 minute ago, SMcD said: I'll express the usual frustrations about the difficulty of adjusting the height. As mentioned in one of the earlier stand threads... you can replace the 4 height adjusting bolts with these big hand turnable knobs. Then it no longer requires a tool, and the adjustment can be done in about 2 minutes. It's still takes longer than any of the other adjustments, but not bad (and probably as quick or quicker than some other stands where height adjustment is not considered an issue). 1 Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niacin Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 1 hour ago, SMcD said: My 18880 came in from Thomann today. Impressively fast shipping given the distance. First of all, I love how light this thing is. What an engineering marvel. Super easy to collapse and transport, and plenty of pedal room too. I'll express the usual frustrations about the difficulty of adjusting the height. Unfortunately, @Sean M. H.'s warning about a little bit of side-to-side wobble was true, and my PC4 does jiggle a bit if I hit it real hard (especially towards the ends of the keyboard). My instinct was to tighten everything on the stand as much as I could before using it, but that didn't fully eliminate wobble. Is it possible that over-tightening the stand could exacerbate wobble? Like, maybe it needs to have a little "give" for shock absorption? Not sure if that theory makes any sense or not. kick the feet out at your end in opposite directions so they're slightly angled / \ Quote Gig keys: Hammond SKpro, Korg Vox Continental, Crumar Mojo 61, Crumar Mojo Pedals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMcD Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 6 minutes ago, niacin said: kick the feet out at your end in opposite directions so they're slightly angled / \ This seems to make some difference! But I'm a bit concerned that the tension created by doing this for extended periods of time could bend parts of the stand, especially when using the crossbar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenheeter Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 I was just about to suggest this. I have used mine for years and every gig I kick the legs out and the stand is very stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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