60 years ago today....

[Dave Ferris]

 73 million people tuned in to the Ed Sullivan Show to see the Beatles. Uh, how NOT to read a room. Pretty hilarious !

 

 

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

Some obsess over the past and find discomfort in change.  Some obsess over the future yet take no action. We are forever living in the now where those recordings continue to connect with listeners all over the world. What is the magic ingredient? 

[Geoff Grace]

I only remember The Beatles’ second appearance on Ed Sullivan, a few years later; but I remember Paul Jones’s generation well. He was born in between my maternal and paternal grandmothers’ years of birth. The world was changing fast in the 1960s, and it’s understandable if some of the people in that age group saw no value in the tastes of their grandchildren. 
 

For those of us who are older, it may be worth asking ourselves if we’re missing out on any good music that Gen Z is enamored with. 
 

As for me, while I never was completely swept away by Beatlemania, I’ve always been a fan and appreciative of their creativity in popular music. They were innovative in so many areas: song construction, recording techniques, vocal harmonies, arrangements, and orchestration (thanks in no small part to their friend, George Martin), to name a few. 
 

So much of the great music that followed was influenced by them. Progressive rock certainly owes them a debt of gratitude. 
 

I’m glad that Paul and Ringo are still around today. I hope they enjoy this anniversary of the dawn of their success in the US. 

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Docbop]

It was a good time for me when the Beatles came out.  I was in Jr Hi School playing guitar, but going to school in SoCal living near the beach I was a die hard Beach Boys fan so not a big Beatles fan at the time.   I watched them on Ed Sullivan and was amazed at the audience reaction and start listening more to the British Invasion bands.   I remember one of the radio stations had Beatle vs Beach Boys voting and I was happy the Beach Boys won all but the last one.  When the Beatle won the music scene had changed and even I started listening to the Beatles more.   Sgt Peppers was my turning point and I got really into the Beatles.   I was lucky because all the various things I did in music roadie, recording engineer, etc  I got to hang with George Harrison, he and Klaus Voorman were friends of the artist I was working for and George and Klaus came to one of our shows.    Then I got to sneaking into a John Lennon recording session the same artist I worked for was on the session so I knew when and where the session was.  I made it into the control room and sat quietly and watched them finish the tune they were doing.  Session over I went in to live room and standing next to the artist I worked for was able to hang with all the Lennon and the musicians watching a drunk John Lennon joke and talk about the session.  So I wasn't an instant Beatles fan like most people, but their music grew on me, especially when I got into recording, and then to eventually get to hang with two the Beatles it brought me lots of great memories now that I'm and old music fan.   Thank you John, Paul, George, Ringo and George Martin. 

[ProfD]

37 minutes ago, Geoff Grace said:

For those of us who are older, it may be worth asking ourselves if we’re missing out on any good music that Gen Z is enamored with. 

IMO, not really.   For the most part, music consumption is generational.

 

The music that resonates most with people will be that which constitutes the soundtrack of their lives and experiences. 

 

IOW, the old or new music we grow up listening to is responsible for our musical heroes and points of reference. 

 

As we get older, we're less likely to discover or appreciate *new* music. 

Any new music will be subconsciously filtered through that prism i.e. soundtrack of our lives. 

 

Look no further than the music our fellow forumites choose to listen to and/or play or musicians they hold in high regard. 

It's very similar to our parents and grandparents not really digging *our* music. It's a generational cycle.😁😎

[CHarrell]

20 minutes ago, ProfD said:

IMO, not really.   For the most part, music consumption is generational.

 

The music that resonates most with people will be that which constitutes the soundtrack of their lives and experiences. 

 

IOW, the old or new music we grow up listening to is responsible for our musical heroes and points of reference. 

 

As we get older, we're less likely to discover or appreciate *new* music. 

Any new music will be subconsciously filtered through that prism i.e. soundtrack of our lives. 

 

Look no further than the music our fellow forumites choose to listen to and/or play or musicians they hold in high regard. 

It's very similar to our parents and grandparents not really digging *our* music. It's a generational cycle.😁😎

 

I don't think it has to be that way, though. As a great example, look at P-Funk. They influenced tons of then-young people coming out the gates in the 80s and 90s: Public Enemy, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Digital Underground, De La Soul, the list goes on. After that, what happened? Those younger people started to influence the OGs! So you hear Bootsy Collins, George Clinton, and to a lesser extent Bernie Worrell, and their material in the 21st century on either had direct input from younger generations, or deeply incorporated elements of what was modern. It's a beautiful cross-stream of generational influence and sharing.

 

You also see this pattern with musicians such as Art Blakey, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, and Wayne Shorter, amongst others, where they consistently sought fresh talent from younger generations to create music that was of the contemporary spirit.

[Anderton]

22 minutes ago, ProfD said:

The music that resonates most with people will be that which constitutes the soundtrack of their lives and experiences. 

 

For a lot of people, yes. But sometimes, that's the soundtrack of their lives today, which may be contemporary.

 

1 hour ago, Geoff Grace said:

For those of us who are older, it may be worth asking ourselves if we’re missing out on any good music that Gen Z is enamored with. 

 

Well, it's getting harder and harder to find the best of what's being released today. Just scanning Spotify's top songs isn't too helpful, the top hits were never necessarily fertile ground. For every Beatles, there were at least 20 Lemon Pipers. I consider myself lucky when I randomly click around and find something I like. 

 

It's not just what Gen Z listens to, either. There's stuff from decades ago that I missed.  

[ProfD]

3 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

I don't think it has to be that way, though. As a great example, look at P-Funk. They influenced tons of then-young people coming out the gates in the 80s and 90s: Public Enemy, Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Digital Underground, De La Soul, the list goes on.

Sure.  Hip-Hop music production was influenced by pioneers mainly through sampling.

3 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

After that, what happened? Those younger people started to influence the OGs! So you hear Bootsy Collins, George Clinton, and to a lesser extent Bernie Worrell, and their material in the 21st century on either had direct input from younger generations, or deeply incorporated elements of what was modern. It's a beautiful cross-stream of generational influence and sharing.

Right.  By using their music, the Hip-Hop community resurrected the careers of some OGs.

3 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

You also see this pattern with musicians such as Art Blakey, Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, and Wayne Shorter, amongst others, where they consistently sought fresh talent from younger generations to create music that was of the contemporary spirit.

Sure enough...Jazz was built on a foundation of collaboration and mentorship. 

 

But, look at the list of names mentioned in the quote.  Only one of those cats is still alive today. 

 

Yet, I cannot think of too many contemporary Jazz musicians who will have a similar influence on future generations.😎

[CHarrell]

6 minutes ago, ProfD said:

Yet, I cannot think of too many contemporary Jazz musicians who will have a similar influence on future generations.😎

 

Skill issue. 😉 That influence is going to happen regardless of whether any individual is able to perceive or forsee it.

[Dave Ferris]

That was a highly turbulent, sad but still memorable time in my young life. Only a month earlier on 1/10/64 my father passed away from leukemia after being diagnosed in early Nov. of 1963. In those days, it was pretty much a death sentence, he went quick, leaving my mom to care of me at 10 and my sister at 8.

 

Compounded by the JFK assassination also in Nov., our close knit N. St. Louis 'burb of Florissant, Mo., which was mostly an  Irish/Catholic/Democrat demographic, were highly in a deep funk, to put it mildly.

 

I remember watching this on our neighbor's B&W TV, they had the nicest one in the neighborhood.  It was somehow a big event, it seemed everyone knew about them and the fact this was their US debut but me.  I wasn't playing yet and had never even heard of the Beatles.

 

The pastor of our church had called my mom and urged her to "get out" on this Sunday night and be among the neighborhood parishioners, who were all very supportive in these early days of grief for us. There were probably twenty of us kids sprawled on the living floor of the  largest house in the neighborhood. There were at least a dozen parents there as well. When they came on, none of the girls were screaming like you'd normally see. The room was transfixed on, what was to us, a huge 20 inch console screen just watching and taking it all in. I do remember after the show there was a discussion among the adults on what just took place. Most of the parents said, while the long hair shocked them, they liked it but still preferred Perry Como or whoever. I think everyone in that room, adults and children, knew that somehow they were witnessing something special. They might not have been able to verbalize it, but they knew.

 

I did listen to the radio in those days but I didn't have any preferences, in fact I didn't even know what I liked. Initially, this new sound was foreign to me, I didn't know what to make of it at first. But there was something there that drew me in and I was glued to the Sullivan show for all the subsequent appearances.

 

 Within the year, the Beatle Tsunami had overtaken the entire US and especially our little world in the 'burbs. You couldn't go anywhere, turn on the radio, or go to any store or kind of event without hearing cuts  from "Meet The Beatles". Seemingly everyone at our Catholic grade school had a portable transistor radio, so as soon as school was over, I'd step outside to the strains of "This boy" or "I wanna be your man".

 

All of this was a Prelude to me playing in my first band at age 12 in the 7th grade. Like Pat Metheny once said and I'm paraphrasing, "if it weren't for hearing the Beatles on the Sullivan show for the first time, I don't know if I would've gotten into music".

 

[Al Quinn]

I remember watching it on the black and white TV. I was five at the time. They really got my attention. My mom liked them but, at first, my dad did not. After seeing them we would wear wigs and try to mimic what we saw. A friend had Beatle boots but I wasn’t allowed. I didn’t actually start playing until three years later but had the bug anyway mainly because of them. My grandmother gave me the Meet The Beatles album for Christmas and I still have it. It was my first album.
 

 

[drawback]

I listened to the radio by myself since I was 3 or 4, pecking out tunes on our beat up piano. I heard my first band on summer holidays at a lake dancehall in 1963, still largely surf music! The sound of live electric instruments and drums was a seismic event in my life that I still remember vividly.

 

The next winter, just after turning 12, I saw the first Beatles performance on Ed Sullivan. Some friends of my parents were over and the Mrs came down to the rumpus room to watch the spot with my brother and me because her 12 year old son was crazy about them too. He played guitar, had written some songs, so she asked me to come over to their place to hook up with him the next weekend. I did, my oldest musical friendship was formed, and we built a band that night. We've played together on and off in different bands throughout the decades. 

[Floyd Tatum]

60 years ago today

Sargeant Pepper taught the band to play

[drawback]

5 minutes ago, Al Quinn said:

 

I recall all the Beatle wigs were black. We all thought they had black hair because of the B&W tv. I think it was Rubber Soul before I found out otherwise!

[David Emm]

I'll bet Mr. Jones would have had a major stroke upon seeing Little Richard in mascara, writhing around on a grand piano.

If he'd lived long enough to see Lil' Nas X, his head would surely have exploded.

[schmalex]

Do we know what kinds of music Mr. Paul Jones actually enjoyed listening to?

[ProfD]

7 minutes ago, schmalex said:

Do we know what kinds of music Mr. Paul Jones actually enjoyed listening to?

Whatever type of music it was definitely recorded at 78 rpm on shellac to be played on a gramophone.😎

[mrk7421]

What I get from this in the case of the two living Beatles is......you can function well into your 80s  IF YOU TAKE GOOD CARE OF YOURSELF.                                                                                                                                              We lost Harrison....who was a lifetime smoker. Possibly one important fact is that both Paul and Ringo are vegetarian. Back in the days of my useless high school education I was told I would be dead if I tried this.                                                                     

[Floyd Tatum]

2 hours ago, mrk7421 said:

Possibly one important fact is that both Paul and Ringo are vegetarian. Back in the days of my useless high school education I was told I would be dead if I tried this.                                                                     

Their vegetarianism may be a reason for their longevity.   But, they are also very wealthy, and can afford to have chefs on staff to cook them delicious vegetarian meals.   I've always suspected that's one of the keys to a good vegetarian diet - having someone around who knows a lot about how to combine and prepare that type of food.    If I were to try going vegetarian, I wouldn't have the slightest idea where to begin.   I'm not very good at cooking in the first place, but slapping together meats, vegetables, and dairy products isn't very difficult.  Mind you, this is just my opinion - I can't prove it.

[ProfD]

3 hours ago, mrk7421 said:

What I get from this in the case of the two living Beatles is......you can function well into your 80s  IF YOU TAKE GOOD CARE OF YOURSELF.                                                                                                                                              We lost Harrison....who was a lifetime smoker. Possibly one important fact is that both Paul and Ringo are vegetarian. Back in the days of my useless high school education I was told I would be dead if I tried this.                                                                     

Genetics is a factor in longevity too.

 

Keith Richards has reportedly abused himself with more drugs and alcohol than a sadomasochist would allow and yet he's 80 years old and still going.😎

[Shamanzarek]

George Harrison was the first Beatle to go vegetarian around 1965. All The Beatles were heavy smokers from about 12 years old and were often seen with cigarettes in 1960s photos. Paul quit around 1981 and Ringo in 1990. John was still smoking the day he was killed and had tried being vegetarian but didn't stay with it.. Harrison quit smoking at times but went back to it. 

[The Real MC]

3 hours ago, mrk7421 said:

What I get from this in the case of the two living Beatles is......you can function well into your 80s  IF YOU TAKE GOOD CARE OF YOURSELF.                                                                                                                                              We lost Harrison....who was a lifetime smoker. Possibly one important fact is that both Paul and Ringo are vegetarian. Back in the days of my useless high school education I was told I would be dead if I tried this.                                                                     

 

Linda was also a vegetarian and she died of breast cancer.  A vegetarian diet does not equal long life.

[mrk7421]

There are a number of studies linking breast cancer in women to consumption of dairy products.....which of itself might not be so bad.....except dairy ain't what it used to be.....sorry. There are loads of anti biotics...growth hormones.....and for some reason women seem to be susceptible.            Linda's food products that were out as I recall were things like Lasagna....very comfort food oriented.But absolutely.....she was a poster child for veggie people not achieving longevity.

[skipeb3]

Who could ever forget? I watched it on one of these....

[Floyd Tatum]

56 minutes ago, skipeb3 said:

Who could ever forget? I watched it on one of these....

Reminds me of Brazil - one of my favourite movies!

[Geoff Grace]

Speaking as someone who was a vegetarian for years and who only eats meat once in awhile these days, I learned first hand that a vegetarian diet centered around fresh fruits and vegetables is a lot healthier than a vegetarian diet centered around sugary, salty, processed foods, sodas, and fake meat. In other words, there's a wide range of vegetarian choices available; some are healthier than others.

 

Of course, none of us is guaranteed a long life. All any of us can do is try to increase our odds. 
 

Best,

 

Geoff

[AROIOS]

On 2/9/2024 at 1:34 PM, Geoff Grace said:

...if we’re missing out on any good music that Gen Z is enamored with...

First we'll have to define "music that Gen Z is enamored with". If that's measured by Top 40 charts, then NOPE.
 

Music is about 1) Melody; 2) Harmony; 3) Rhythm; 4) Timbre (or sound design). Those who love non-instrumental music might add 5) Lyrics, which is really more Literary than Music per se.
 

I'm a sucker for 2) harmony. And there has been zero advancement but plenty of regression in this area of the "music GenZ is enamored with".
 

Rhythm-wise, 1/32 notes in HipHop and Dilla's "drunk swing" beat pushed the envelope, bu it's been mostly stagnant since the mid 90's.
 

Melodies, again, stagnant since the mid 90's.
 

Timbre, this is where most of the progress is. There have been some interesting sound design and mixing ideas in the past 20 years.
 

BTW, folks who make claims like "you love what you grew up with" are blind to the fact that so many listeners love music that came out way before they were born.

[MathOfInsects]

I think it's just actuarial. Neither Paul nor Ringo would be "expected" to be dead, age-wise. John and George are the outliers by having passed so young, John via murder and George from cancer (almost certainly smoking-related). If anything, as a group (meaning, on average), "The Beatles" died way younger than most. 

[Geoff Grace]

2 hours ago, AROIOS said:

First we'll have to define "music that Gen Z is enamored with". If that's measured by Top 40 charts, then NOPE.
 

Music is about 1) Melody; 2) Harmony; 3) Rhythm; 4) Timbre (or sound design). Those who love non-instrumental music might add 5) Lyrics, which is really more Literary than Music per se.
 

I'm a sucker for 2) harmony. And there has been zero advancement but plenty of regression in this area of the "music GenZ is enamored with".
 

Rhythm-wise, 1/32 notes in HipHop and Dilla's "drunk swing" beat pushed the envelope, bu it's been mostly stagnant since the mid 90's.
 

Melodies, again, stagnant since the mid 90's.
 

Timbre, this is where most of the progress is. There have been some interesting sound design and mixing ideas in the past 20 years.
 

BTW, folks who make claims like "you love what you grew up with" are blind to the fact that so many listeners love music that came out way before they were born.

 

I think that hit music is an important part of the musical tastes of every generation, but it doesn’t tell the whole story; and with each new era, there are more recorded music options that compete with hit music for the listener’s attention. Like you said, this includes 20th century recordings. It also includes unsigned artists with an Internet presence, not to mention music from shows people watch, video game music, and “world” music from all corners of the globe. As a result, I wouldn’t be surprised if Gen Z was the least hit music focussed yet. I don’t know a lot of Gen Z’ers, but the ones I know don’t pay much attention to today’s hits.

 

In contrast, when The Beatles debuted on Ed Sullivan, we had only three TV networks, AM radio, and perhaps a local TV channel or two from which we could discover new music. Hit music was almost omnipresent in that environment.

 

I like your elements based approach to examining music. In addition to Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, and Timbre, I was taught to add Form to the list. (Also, in college, we referred to Lyrics as “Text.”) Back in the ’70s, a music history professor of mine lamented that we students had missed most of the advances in Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, and Form, and that all that was left for us to explore was Timbre. His words have proved to be mostly true. The last 50 years have been revolutionary for Timbre, but we’ve been largely just rearranging the established building blocks of the other elements. In addition, considering the lack of tolerance for dissonance in most of the listening public, many of our tools go unused or ignored.

 

Best,

 

Geoff

[Docbop]

13 minutes ago, Geoff Grace said:

The last 50 years have been revolutionary for Timbre, but we’ve been largely just rearranging the established building blocks of the other elements. In addition, considering the lack of tolerance for dissonance in most of the listening public, many of our tools go unused or ignored.

 

One of the big changes since the late 80's is the recording studio become a instrument especially since the DAW world and track counts and huge signal chains on every track.  The studio is the producer/songwriter instrument as much as the musical instrument are and now cost of recording gear has dropped so much and the internet and you can get musicians all over the world to play on your tunes just sending tracks back and forth.  Like Lee Sklar said he gets hire for a project and lot of the now he's just going to someone house to lay down tracks.   Digital world has changed music world Billie Eilish and her brother Finneas created a huge global hit album in their bedrooms in their parent's small house.  Now that 9 year old kid Miles Bonham is a wiz creating music playing multiple instruments and using a DAW.   These kids practically from birth are creating using digital tools to express themselves with.   It's a new world.