Kurzweil K2061 61-note synth!

[felis]

16 hours ago, Dave Bryce said:

The K2088 was also at the show.

dB

 

Looks like the K2088 lost the pads and audio interface too. 

 

The PC4 got 88 and 76 keys, the K20xx gets 88 and 61, and the K2700 only gets 88 so far.

[UnderGroundGr]

K2000 was 61 keys.

I believe these models must have been called K2161 or 2188...

[felis]

The new ones are K2061 and K2088.

[Delaware Dave]

Just purchased a used Forte7. If the internal leslie were better and 10 pounds lighter it would be the perfect keyboard but even that i can work around. Unless it breaks it's probably my last k/b purchase.  Has Kurz's best acoustic/electric pianos (better than the K2700).

[felis]

6 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

Depending on the price, I think I woulda gone for a K2(7)61 over my PC4-7, although I like the latter a great deal.  Small and solid, with a semi-weighted 88 controller attached, would suit me fine.  It would also be a helluva lot easier to find a case that fits it.....

 

The wheels on the K2061 are on the left side of the keys which will add to the length.  Won't know how much until we see the specs though.

[Dave Weiser]

2 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

Just purchased a used Forte7. If the internal leslie were better and 10 pounds lighter it would be the perfect keyboard but even that i can work around. Unless it breaks it's probably my last k/b purchase.  Has Kurz's best acoustic/electric pianos (better than the K2700).

The Forte's factory KB3 programs are basically broken - be sure to hit me up for my custom sound set, I've got a set of much better KB3s, including the "double Leslie" programs from the PC3/PC3K. Glad you like the EPs! Those are mine - that was one of the most fun projects I've ever worked on. But I made lots of improvements to the touch/feel of them, new versions are in my custom set. 

 

Anyone with a Forte (or any Kurzweil board) hit me up and I'll send you my sound set! weiserdav@gmail.com

[Sean McDermott]

22 hours ago, Synthaholic said:

I wonder if it's Medeli or Fatar.

It’s a Fatar keybed.  I played the 88-key version on the opening day of NAMM on Thursday, and the man behind the engineering for all of the keyboard sounds mentioned that the action was Fatar.  It had a wonderful feel to it.

[TomKittel]

On 1/27/2024 at 4:03 PM, Delaware Dave said:

Huh? The PC3's keybed is a TP8. You're either contradicting yourself or you mistyped.

 

I just didn't remember if the PC3 76 and Artis 7 keybed was TP8 or 9. Point is that back then the Kurzweil folks put customized stiff springs into both keyboards which made them unplayable for quite a few people (including Anotherscott if I remember correctly). In contrast the PC361 had a terrific standard Fatar synth keybed. I don't remember which TP number it was. But I hope Kurzweil will use the PC361 Fatar keybed for the K2061.

[felis]

I had a PC361 and really liked the keys, especially the after touch.  Don't know what it was, but I'd also like to see them use it in the K2061.

[The Piano Man]

14 minutes ago, felis said:

I had a PC361 and really liked the keys, especially the after touch.  Don't know what it was, but I'd also like to see them use it in the K2061.

TP9
 

It would be great if all manufacturers listed the keyboard action name and any associated tweaks.

 

There is a thread somewhere with a link to keyboard action names. Any time I see it, it reminds me of the following musings:

- Technics (Matsushita) made some really good ones including, apparently, the one that went on to become Korg’s RH3.

- The Yamaha FS/FSX actions were/are classic solid synth actions

- Korg M3 action is also excellent (another Technics reworking?)

- Roland used to use both Matsushita and Fatar actions in various products. I always forgot that 

Anyway, back on topic, great to see more pro level releases from Kurzweil. 
 

For me, 73/76 remains the gigging sweet spot, especially when in a sleek compact form, eg

- Yamaha CP73

- Hammond SK Pro

- Vox Continental 73

- Roland VR730

 

For Kurzweil, I liked the Artis 7 form factor. It even had internal power supply and was a manageable 12kg . It can be done!! Not everything with internal power needs to be ridiculously heavy or light but a large plastic monstrosity. 

[zxcvbnm098]

6 hours ago, TomKittel said:

 

I just didn't remember if the PC3 76 and Artis 7 keybed was TP8 or 9. Point is that back then the Kurzweil folks put customized stiff springs into both keyboards which made them unplayable for quite a few people (including Anotherscott if I remember correctly). In contrast the PC361 had a terrific standard Fatar synth keybed. I don't remember which TP number it was. But I hope Kurzweil will use the PC361 Fatar keybed for the K2061.

I was another who loved the Artis 7 (and still do) but hated to the highly sprung keybed.

 

Like AnotherScott and Tom I got the lighter springs from Syntaur and it makes it an absolute joy to play. I wish manufacturers would say what tension they use and allow us to alter it. A dream of course, but it can be a deal killer for me if it's too tightly sprung. And I did notice the 61 version at NAMM (albeit a prototype) was pretty stiff...:(

 

 

[Dave Weiser]

6 hours ago, TomKittel said:

 

I just didn't remember if the PC3 76 and Artis 7 keybed was TP8 or 9. Point is that back then the Kurzweil folks put customized stiff springs into both keyboards which made them unplayable for quite a few people (including Anotherscott if I remember correctly). In contrast the PC361 had a terrific standard Fatar synth keybed. I don't remember which TP number it was. But I hope Kurzweil will use the PC361 Fatar keybed for the K2061.

I was working at Kurz R&D when the PC3 and Artis 7 were developed...no one on our end added springs or modified the TP8. That's just how it came from Fatar as far as I know. I know that you and a few others didn't like the springs, and I can sympathize. But do keep in mind, literally thousands of customers were/are fine with the TP8 as it is in the PC3 and Artis 7 (and the old PC2 and K2600). Finding something that pleases the majority of end users - or that doesn't bother any end users at all - is a tough challenge.

 

Of course there's a whole separate crowd that prefers fully weighted hammer action 76 actions. (Big shout for my old KT76 from the 90s!)

 

[Dave Weiser]

21 minutes ago, zxcvbnm098 said:

I was another who loved the Artis 7 (and still do) but hated to the highly sprung keybed.

 

Like AnotherScott and Tom I got the lighter springs from Syntaur and it makes it an absolute joy to play. I wish manufacturers would say what tension they use and allow us to alter it. A dream of course, but it can be a deal killer for me if it's too tightly sprung. And I did notice the 61 version at NAMM (albeit a prototype) was pretty stiff...:(

 

 

 

I'm envious that you got to play the 61! I wasn't at the show, but I spoke to Kurzweil's head of software, who was at the booth. He told me that while the K2088 action had been decided (TP40L), the 61 action had not yet been chosen, so I'm hoping that the stiff action won't necessarily show up in the final product.

[zxcvbnm098]

12 hours ago, Dave Weiser said:

 

I'm envious that you got to play the 61! I wasn't at the show, but I spoke to Kurzweil's head of software, who was at the booth. He told me that while the K2088 action had been decided (TP40L), the 61 action had not yet been chosen, so I'm hoping that the stiff action won't necessarily show up in the final product.

Me too Dave! I think these are going to be very successful....

[johnchop]

I’m one of PC3 users who liked the action after a few months of playing (and possibly breaking it in). As my only gigging board for a long time, I was happy to have something relatively lightweight that allowed me to dig in or go light and fast. I do remember that choosing the right velocity map was key to success.
 

Anyway, I love the TP40L and am thrilled to see it on the 88 model.

 

 

[felis]

 

[murphybridget]

On 1/27/2024 at 9:40 AM, Dave Weiser said:

Just got this photo from my friends at the Kurzweil booth at NAMM...

It's got a metal enclosure, large ribbon, and the specs should be similar to K2700,  minus the drum pads and audio interface. It's got synth keys, but the action is unknown/undecided at the moment. 

 

The metal enclosure and the absence of drum pads suggest a different focus, but I'm curious about the drum aspects.

[johnchop]

4 hours ago, murphybridget said:

The metal enclosure and the absence of drum pads suggest a different focus, but I'm curious about the drum aspects.

If this is a K2700 derivative, I’d expect to see the drum kits from the Kore64 expansion in this board, and they are pretty punchy. You can go nuts loading your own samples.

 

I wouldn’t expect to see loop warping/time-stretching. 

 

As for drum sequencing, I expect no significant innovations there beyond the existing sequencer stuff. It’s not going to be a modern DAW-like experience, but you can always import MIDI from another tool. 

[ASCAMP]

On 1/27/2024 at 6:58 AM, UnderGroundGr said:

A 61 note keyboard by Kurzweil, at last...

I am waiting for the specs, but why not a K2761 without the pads, but with all others(sound card etc)?

 

Granted I've always been confused by Kurzweil marketing, much as I love their boards. I love my K2700 but had really hoped Kurzweil would have released a 61 and/or 7{3,6} key version along with it… or at least made an announcement that they knew what they were doing! 😅 I've been pleasantly surprised by my K2700; I was already looking forward to the built-in ribbon controller but Kurzweil did such a superior job in its implementation, the pads turned out to be much more useful than I'd ever expected (I tend to avoid those thing, elsewhere!), and the whole workstation workflow has always been great. I've never been stymied by any limitations (except for working with my own samples… that's been a royal pain!). Oh, and just to start a flame-war, I've always thought the screen was just perfect! 😄

But yes… why not a K2761/K2788? What does K2061/K2088 mean?! It clearly borrows a lot from the K2700, it would be nice to know that this is specifically following in the same lineage, like the K2661 (seriously one of the most under-rated synths of all time, IMHO) followed along in the K2600 family. 

[ASCAMP]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:39 AM, murphybridget said:

The metal enclosure and the absence of drum pads suggest a different focus, but I'm curious about the drum aspects.

 

The pads on the K2700 are surprisingly useful; Kurzweil really nailed it on the implementation, IMHO, primarily because they didn't limit it to a "drum pad gimmick". I was really surprised how useful the pads turned out to be for being able to modify patterns in real time or trigger samples during performances. OTOH, all that functionality (minus velocity and multi-coloured indicators) is technically available anywhere you want to assign it, and I see those two soft buttons above the wheels that look promising…. 

[zxcvbnm098]

I really hope they'll consider a 76 as well, although it feels like that may not be in the cards......:(

[jerrythek]

On 1/28/2024 at 10:22 PM, The Piano Man said:

 

There is a thread somewhere with a link to keyboard action names. Any time I see it, it reminds me of the following musings:

 

- Korg M3 action is also excellent (another Technics reworking?)

Yes, it was a significantly reworked version of the technology KORG acquired from Technics. 
 

Jerry

[David Emm]

46 minutes ago, jerrythek said:

Yes, it was a significantly reworked version of the technology KORG acquired from Technics.

 

I'd love to know how closely the new Keystages resemble that. The M3 keybed rivaled Roland's D-50 for "sweet spot" status. Creamy.

[johnchop]

No joke… my favorite by many miles.

 

Meanwhile this Kurz has me VERY intrigued.

 

I do wish DAW control was a bit more slick so I could have one board to rule them all. If they could just make the transport controls send CC, that would be something. 

[jerrythek]

2 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

I'd love to know how closely the new Keystages resemble that. The M3 keybed rivaled Roland's D-50 for "sweet spot" status. Creamy.

I agree. And the aftertouch was so responsive/easy to control.

 

But I'm too long gone from there to know anything about the newer stuff.

 

[UnderGroundGr]

8 hours ago, johnchop said:

No joke… my favorite by many miles.

 

Meanwhile this Kurz has me VERY intrigued.

 

I do wish DAW control was a bit more slick so I could have one board to rule them all. If they could just make the transport controls send CC, that would be something. 

Daw control, audio recording via usb and polyphonic aftertouch. I will buy it instantly...😉

[murphybridget]

On 1/30/2024 at 10:18 PM, johnchop said:

If this is a K2700 derivative, I’d expect to see the drum kits from the Kore64 expansion in this board, and they are pretty punchy. You can go nuts loading your own samples.

 

I wouldn’t expect to see loop warping/time-stretching. 

 

As for drum sequencing, I expect no significant innovations there beyond the existing sequencer stuff. It’s not going to be a modern DAW-like experience, but you can always import MIDI from another tool. 

It's a good thing they allow you us to import MIDI from another tool.

[poserp_returns]

On 1/30/2024 at 7:18 AM, johnchop said:

I wouldn’t expect to see loop warping/time-stretching. 

 

As for drum sequencing, I expect no significant innovations there beyond the existing sequencer stuff. It’s not going to be a modern DAW-like experience, but you can always import MIDI from another tool. 

Oh hey people, some may know me from other places. As my username says, I have returned. I think my old username (poserp) was used by me in the past but associated with an email address that's no longer active, so it is now orphaned.

Anyways, so a thing that VAST does (kinda where I left off before I fell into the timewarp (pun intended) of learning to play drums) is allow a control source to set the sample start point. If said control source is KeyNum, you can effectively use arpeggiators, sequencers, and other things to "play" a drum loop back at whatever tempo, without changing pitch. IIRC I was in the middle of figuring out all the math for that, along with how to set up FUNs to do it. So basically while it'd be cool to have, there are (per usual w/VAST) other ways to accomplish the same thing. It's not as elegant as, say, the Akai-inspired method of mapping a loop across pads. But, when you have 127 different "pads" generally there will be some key/note num that corresponds to where you want to play within a loop. This can be combined with another control source, such as a knob/fader/the ribbon, to fine-tune how the loop is "mapped" across the keys. I have a K2700, so I am also going to work this out with the pads to do some of the Akai-style sample manipulation stuff with those.

I will probably switch over to a K2061 at some point, I'm a big fan of synth actions as opposed to piano actions and losing the pads and audio interface bits aren't a huge "loss" for me. Plus, I like the overall look of the knobs/sliders/buttons on these new boards.

[Dave Weiser]

10 minutes ago, poserp_returns said:

Oh hey people, some may know me from other places. As my username says, I have returned. I think my old username (poserp) was used by me in the past but associated with an email address that's no longer active, so it is now orphaned.

Anyways, so a thing that VAST does (kinda where I left off before I fell into the timewarp (pun intended) of learning to play drums) is allow a control source to set the sample start point. If said control source is KeyNum, you can effectively use arpeggiators, sequencers, and other things to "play" a drum loop back at whatever tempo, without changing pitch. IIRC I was in the middle of figuring out all the math for that, along with how to set up FUNs to do it. So basically while it'd be cool to have, there are (per usual w/VAST) other ways to accomplish the same thing. It's not as elegant as, say, the Akai-inspired method of mapping a loop across pads. But, when you have 127 different "pads" generally there will be some key/note num that corresponds to where you want to play within a loop. This can be combined with another control source, such as a knob/fader/the ribbon, to fine-tune how the loop is "mapped" across the keys. I have a K2700, so I am also going to work this out with the pads to do some of the Akai-style sample manipulation stuff with those.

I will probably switch over to a K2061 at some point, I'm a big fan of synth actions as opposed to piano actions and losing the pads and audio interface bits aren't a huge "loss" for me. Plus, I like the overall look of the knobs/sliders/buttons on these new boards.

 

Hey PoserP - great to have you back!! Sending much love from Boston!

[johnchop]

 

poserp… a name I have not heard in a long time.  A long time. 😀

I see what you’re saying. That’s … a pretty great idea actually.

 

But I was told there would be no math.