Wurlie with guitar amp

[BluesB3]

I have an Ampeg Gemini I with a 12" that I bought with the 200A in mind but it is too heavy to schlep to a gig. I had a vintage silverface Princeton Reverb sitting in my office so, even though it only has a 10" Mojotone in it, I thought I'd give it a try with the Wurlie.

 

The Wurlie has a Warnecke preamp in it, so no unsightly humming or bs. I stuck a dummy 1/4" plug in the headphone out so I would just be hearing the amp by itself. I added just the slightest touch of reverb and used a taste of the Fender tremolo just for kicks and   I was blown away it sounded so good.😁 I didn't crank it up enough to get a little "grit" out of it but it might be there.

 

Although I swore I'd never take the Wurlie to another gig, I was so pumped playing it I might consider it.  Our guitar player is not too loud but I could mic the speaker if necessary.

 

Just curious if any other Wurlie people have a favorite guitar amp?  How about in the studio @SteveNathan?

 

 

 

 

[Phil Aiken]

One of my Wurlies lives at a friends studio and he has an older Princeton reverb. Match made in heaven. At my place I generally use a Silverface Twin or a Kemper amp simulator.

[mate stubb]

I also used a Princeton in the studio, but on my Nord Wurlie. Sounded great.

[Baldwin Funster]

Put a high headroom speaker in a Deluxe Reverb. 

[CEB]

I have this old 65 I like a lot.  I had an old 66 Super Reverb I liked a lot.  But a friend offered me stupid money for it and I sold it.  I should have kept it. 

 

When I actually played electro mechanics through guitar amps I couldn't have used a Princeton.  I would need more headroom.   I don't know if I could the lower end punch I like when a EP barks from a single 10... maybe if I had a 10" EV Force.  Not sure.

 

My mindset totally revolves around live play.  In a studio I always just did what I was told.    Live stage levels are more intelligent today.  It may work great live.

[CEB]

20 minutes ago, Baldwin Funster said:

Put a high headroom speaker in a Deluxe Reverb. 

 

What is today's  goto high headroom 10"?   For me it was the EV Force but they haven't made that speaker in decades.  Maybe WGS or Eminence makes a copy or something... I don't know.

[Baldwin Funster]

A Deluxe has a 12" speaker. There are some neo-dyne speakers from celestion that would probably be good. And they are lightweight. 

 

If we're sticking with Princetons, I just think those dont have the balls for gigs while staying at least half clean. But there ought to be some full range 10" bass guitar speakers that would sound good with a tine piano. 

[mynameisdanno]

I started a long thread on this topic about 12 years ago and most were in favor of old tube amps with 10" speakers.  At that time Steve Nathan had an old Fender Concert that is his Wurly amp of choice, I imagine he still has it.  I took the plunge on a blackface Vibrolux Reverb and have been thrilled with it for Wurly ever since.

 

 

I have one Eminence Legend and one Ragin' Cajun in the Vibrolux for a little variety, and it always comes out when I bring the Wurly to a gig.  I have to admit I've been copping out and using a Strymon Iridium amp sim pedal quite a bit lately when I'm recording myself at home, just for ease of tweaking and to quickly provide an amp-y option as well as a clean DI.

[bjosko]

Great idea. I have a Fender HotRod DeVille 410 with a “output reducer” in the effect loop I might try.

I have never done it before, as I tough the impedance from a clone wouldn’t match.  

[Docbop]

The last tube amp I had I think would be a good amp for Wurlie.   Fender does these Special Run amps now and then and I had a Special Run  65 Princeton reissue with a 12" speaker, it was great sounding amp. 

[The Real MC]

Don't rule out tube bass amps.  A tube bass preamp in rack mount format (Tubeworks BlueTube, Ampeg SVP) can be a compact solution.  Tube bass amps have less distortion than guitar amps, they work pretty well with Rhodes so why not Whurlies.

[The Real MC]

5 hours ago, CEB said:

 

What is today's  goto high headroom 10"?   For me it was the EV Force but they haven't made that speaker in decades.  Maybe WGS or Eminence makes a copy or something... I don't know.

 

Actually they are 12" speaker.  I heard a vintage pre-CBS blackface Deluxe Reverb with a Weber 12A125-A alnico speaker.  Wow did that sound good.

[Docbop]

1 hour ago, The Real MC said:

Don't rule out tube bass amps.  A tube bass preamp in rack mount format (Tubeworks BlueTube, Ampeg SVP) can be a compact solution.  Tube bass amps have less distortion than guitar amps, they work pretty well with Rhodes so why not Whurlies.

Most the tube bass amps traditionally the company takes a guitar amp that had the wattage they wanted then remove reverb and-or tremolo and then change the tone stack to hit frequencies better for bass.    Like the old Fender Bassman that is so popular is a Fender Bandmaster changed like I described. Ampeg did the same and others.   So really same amp with a slightly different tone stack.  Even some SS amps the guitar amp heads they modded the same way. 

[The Real MC]

2 hours ago, Docbop said:

Most the tube bass amps traditionally the company takes a guitar amp that had the wattage they wanted then remove reverb and-or tremolo and then change the tone stack to hit frequencies better for bass.    Like the old Fender Bassman that is so popular is a Fender Bandmaster changed like I described. Ampeg did the same and others.   So really same amp with a slightly different tone stack.  Even some SS amps the guitar amp heads they modded the same way. 

 

Uh, not always.  Bass amps use a lower gain 12AU7 or 12AY7 in the preamp so that they don't reach overdrive so quickly.  Guitar amps typically use the high gain 12AX7, which guitar players prefer for crunch.

The examples I provided use a lower gain preamp tube..  

 

In fact the tweed Fender Bassman - designed for bass - uses a 12AY7 for the preamp.  If I'm not mistaken, all the old tweed amps use the 12AY7.  Swapping the preamp tube for the high gain 12AX7 doesn't always work, as the signal is so hot it actually pushes the tweed amp into brownout which is not musical.

[CEB]

I know.  Princeton has  a 10".  I love a Princeton with a 12.  Morgan Amps make a PR12 which is a Princeton with a 12".  I almost bought a used Morgan PR12 but I need another amp like I need another hole in my head.

[BluesB3]

The Vibrolux sounds like a good suggestion. I had a Musicman 65 with 2-10's that always sounded good on rhythm guitar.

 

I've thought about getting another speaker board and putting a 12" speaker in my Princeton. But if the Princeton isn't loud enough for a gig, then it doesn't make sense. I was going to replace the Mojotone (which is probably an Eminence but I don't know which one) but it really sounds good the way it is. I went back and read the 2011 thread that Danno referenced. It seems that Steve, Al Coda. and Kanker were in favor of 10's.

 

I've the Ampeg hell built for stout, Gemini that has a 12 in it. I haven't really shaken out the Ampeg since my move to Arkansas, it's sat under its cover in the hallway. Maybe I should give that a try?

 

re: Steve Nathan's rig

My guitar player in my college band had a brown 4-10 Concert with his pre-CBS Strat. Nice sounding rig.

[Docbop]

9 hours ago, The Real MC said:

 

Uh, not always.  Bass amps use a lower gain 12AU7 or 12AY7 in the preamp so that they don't reach overdrive so quickly.  Guitar amps typically use the high gain 12AX7, which guitar players prefer for crunch.

The examples I provided use a lower gain preamp tube..  

 

In fact the tweed Fender Bassman - designed for bass - uses a 12AY7 for the preamp.  If I'm not mistaken, all the old tweed amps use the 12AY7.  Swapping the preamp tube for the high gain 12AX7 doesn't always work, as the signal is so hot it actually pushes the tweed amp into brownout which is not musical.

 

Being I spent most my life as a guitar and bass player changing preamp tubes is just part of finding your sound.  I've put higher gain tubes in bass amps for more bite and lower gain ones in amp I used for Jazz.   Tube amps are interesting beasts in tube, transformer, capacitor, and speaker changes and change the personality of the amp.  Then the tube added for reverb and vibrato adds a touch of gain.   Or like the Deluxe Reverb the Normal channel sounds better at least to me because it doesn't have that "bright" capacitor on the second channel.   Many Deluxe Reverb users clip one leg of that capasitor to get rid of the Bright sound.    That the nice thing about playing guitar is you find a nice guitar and amp and then you experiment and tweak it to be exactly like you want.   Acoustic pianists with $$$ get to do that getting the action changed, but with digital keyboards they are what they are and if you don't like it you buy another brand or model.  

[CEB]

46 minutes ago, BluesB3 said:

The Vibrolux sounds like a good suggestion. I had a Musicman 65 with 2-10's that always sounded good on rhythm guitar.

 

I've thought about getting another speaker board and putting a 12" speaker in my Princeton. But if the Princeton isn't loud enough for a gig, then it doesn't make sense. I was going to replace the Mojotone (which is probably an Eminence but I don't know which one) but it really sounds good the way it is. I went back and read the 2011 thread that Danno referenced. It seems that Steve, Al Coda. and Kanker were in favor of 10's.

 

I've the Ampeg hell built for stout, Gemini that has a 12 in it. I haven't really shaken out the Ampeg since my move to Arkansas, it's sat under its cover in the hallway. Maybe I should give that a try?

 

re: Steve Nathan's rig

My guitar player in my college band had a brown 4-10 Concert with his pre-CBS Strat. Nice sounding rig.

 

A real Vibrolux is sweet.  That Fender Custom Vibrolux thing they brought back is a hard pass.  Well most modern Fender stuff is a hard pass for me.  Probably because the shop is a Fender service center and I see all the problems.  LOL

[KRK]

some examples of mine, with different amp/cabinet (or simulation).

 

Wurly with Mooer tube head (Fender Bassman replica) and 12' cabinet (miked inside isobox)

 

Wurly with GSi BURN (guitar combo simulation)

 

Wurly with Ik Multimedia AMPLITUBE (Fender Twin simulation)

 

Wurly with real Leslie (miked inside isobox)

(hammond and clavinet are with the same leslie too)

 

I also I tried miking my 200A internal speakers, but still have not found the correct "taste"...

🍻

[BluesB3]

It's odd, I had a couple of reeds in the upper register that never sounded right to me regardless of any tweaking I, or any of my techs did. I took the Wurly to my best friend Hammond and EP maven Tony in Mississippi and he said my board sounded as good as any he had heard. Better than most. Through the amp they don't bother me at all. Something evened out or "livened" up.

[Steve Nathan]

1960 Fender Concert with original 10" Blue Jensens

[The Real MC]

4 hours ago, Docbop said:

 

Being I spent most my life as a guitar and bass player changing preamp tubes is just part of finding your sound.  I've put higher gain tubes in bass amps for more bite and lower gain ones in amp I used for Jazz.   Tube amps are interesting beasts in tube, transformer, capacitor, and speaker changes and change the personality of the amp.  Then the tube added for reverb and vibrato adds a touch of gain.   Or like the Deluxe Reverb the Normal channel sounds better at least to me because it doesn't have that "bright" capacitor on the second channel.   Many Deluxe Reverb users clip one leg of that capasitor to get rid of the Bright sound.    That the nice thing about playing guitar is you find a nice guitar and amp and then you experiment and tweak it to be exactly like you want.   Acoustic pianists with $$$ get to do that getting the action changed, but with digital keyboards they are what they are and if you don't like it you buy another brand or model.  

 

And the cabinet.

A Mesa Boogie 4x12 will not sound like a Marshall 4x12.  Even with same speakers.  I 

 

I play guitar and experiment with amps/tubes/speakers/cabinets too.  Experimented with playing the Rhodes through the amps too.

[David R]

Just echoing the love for the combination of Wurly & Princeton Reverb. I did a couple of sessions in 2019 with that setup - one was into a stock silver-panel Princeton, and the other was passing through a Roland Space Echo (no delay, just the preamp) into (I believe) the ‘65 British Green edition with a 12” Celestion greenback.

 

A Princeton Reverb of my very own is on my to acquire list.

[zxcvbnm098]

 

5 hours ago, David R said:

Just echoing the love for the combination of Wurly & Princeton Reverb. I did a couple of sessions in 2019 with that setup - one was into a stock silver-panel Princeton, and the other was passing through a Roland Space Echo (no delay, just the preamp) into (I believe) the ‘65 British Green edition with a 12” Celestion greenback.

 

A Princeton Reverb of my very own is on my to acquire list.

It's stunning how much the PR's have gone up over the last couple of years...often more than Deluxe Reverbs!

[Baldwin Funster]

32 minutes ago, zxcvbnm098 said:

 

It's stunning how much the PR's have gone up over the last couple of years...often more than Deluxe Reverbs!

And Twins are the opposite. Nobody wants them so a new crop of newbies buy them for $900 and proceede to get kicked out of the band for insane volume. It's a shame that outdoor summer shows on flatbed truck stages are kinda gone now.

[Docbop]

6 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

And Twins are the opposite. Nobody wants them so a new crop of newbies buy them for $900 and proceede to get kicked out of the band for insane volume. It's a shame that outdoor summer shows on flatbed truck stages are kinda gone now.

 

A Twin Reverb would be my choice if younger and could deal with 70 lbs of amp.   For keyboards they have the headroom for warm tube tone, the problem is cranking them up enough to get grit they are 80 watts of crazy loud.   So I'd probably go with a Deluxe Reverb 22watt and 12" speaker from more bottom. 

[D. Gauss]

21 hours ago, BluesB3 said:

The Vibrolux sounds like a good suggestion. 

 

Pretty standard choice for whurly back in the day. that or a back breaking twin. However, a vibrolux most likely weighs more than the Gemini you have, well at least mine does. fwiw, my gemini is crazy light relative to its size.  Also, old vibroluxes have kinda wimpy output transformers.   As for Princetons, for recording, sure, but I wouldn't gig with one as they run outta gas waaay to early.   IMO, heavy but good vintage choices (not cheap) would be a bassman reissue (replace the 1st 12ax7 with a 12ay7), Pro Reverb (essentially a half power twin), or a 90's tweed Blues deluxe (sorta kinda like a 1x12 bassman). 

 

If weight is a consideration and you have some cash, maybe look into the new "fake" fender tonemasters, specifically the twin reverb and super reverb. (they also make a deluxe).  these are modeling amps that weigh nothing. i mean nothing. the twin reverb version weighs only 33 lbs!  I did a tour last year (guitar) with the deluxe reverb version and it's so light that if you have it really cranked, it will actually hop across the stage.  For guitar they sound really good. awesome? no.  really good?  yes. For whurly ima guess they'd sound awesome.

[CEB]

I can use my twin anywhere and not get fired.  It is good having the headroom on tap.   If I’m doing a steel gig I really want the headroom.  If I want breakup I have attenuators.  There are advantages to having the bigger power supply that can keep up regardless of the frequency content you are pumping through it.  

[SteveNathan]

I’ve always felt that 10” speakers were best for fitting in frequency wise between the bass & the EG. I’ve put a lot of Wurly through 10s on records for several decades, but only once or twice live, so your mileage may vary. 

[BluesB3]

Back in the '60's I had a beautiful blonde tone ring Tremolux with a 10 for my Combo Compact. I wish I had never sold it (the Tremolux, not the Farfisa). One of the most beautiful amps ever.

 

The truth is though, it could never keep up with Super Reverbs and the Concert the guitar players had on gigs.