A Quality Keyboard Amplifier

[zxcvbnm098]

50 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

I know this comes up here a lot, but I'll still say it - if you only have one keyboard to amplify, and it has efx & eq built-in, save the hassle and connect directly to the speaker. Actually the QSC can take two inputs (even three if you have to, my K8s have an RCA jack that's paralleled with input #2 - no separate volume level control though). And with the gain switch set to "mic" you can drive it (or any other PPA with a similar switch or trim control) to full output with the quietest of -10db keyboard outputs.

Agree, and I have done this with my two boards and one QSC. But I really am spoiled by the stereo with the MS amp. It makes a difference....

[Docbop]

15 minutes ago, The Piano Man said:

Disclaimer: I am not a pro paintshopper. 😂

 

Also, I’d want eq on each channel, but you get the idea! 

 

Or just buy a mixer and accomplish the same thing with even more possibilities.     

[cassdad]

1 hour ago, Dave Ferris said:

If I were still doing rock/ pop/ r&b gigs strictly for the dough and was in that mindset of - get in, get out, no one gets hurt- I would definitely get a MS amp for that purpose.

 

As things are now, I'm highly selective on what I do take and most of the time know what to expect upon arrival. Things are more relaxed, I'm enjoying the music more instead of looking at my watch every 15 minutes. My CP88, JMK Audio JM-110 and pair of RCF TT-08A mk2s take up very little space and sound great. There's no longer a rush to set up or tear down and get the F out of there as quickly as possible like my MO for decades.

 

I do have a lot of dough invested in my set up, it sure doesn't coincide with the monetary compensation, but it makes my overall experience much more fun and fulfilling.

 

 

Wow - I bet that sound is absolutely pristine!  Just wondering what digital piano a pianist of your caliber is using?

[JoJoB3]

2 hours ago, kpl1228 said:

That QSC K12.2 is perfect for any keyboardist. I know what you mean about convenience but the QSC and a small portable mixer would sound better than any combo amp. It would be two additional cords (mixer out and mixer power) plus the small mixer (like a Radial Key Largo)....hardly an inconvenience for the improved sound.

I doubt any combo amp will sound better than that powerful full range cabinet and quality small mixer.

 

For bassmaker synths, organ clones and like keys and ranges I can't fully agree on a 12in QSC. 
If Mid to High synth patches, e pianos, small to med PA reinforcement need, etc. a QSC 12in pair is ok (w 15
is better). The real world issue however is I'm seeing venues I perform at constantly having to repair their QSCs.

Regardless, it's hauling 2 heavy speakers, a mixer and all the cabling along with the sound makers.  If the OP is game for all that then cool but I think he was keying on keys amp format (maybe not). If mainly for home a PA rig makes more sense.

[CEB]

You can buy an old Peavey KB300.  Those things were practically indestructible.   But they are heavy as f***.   I have had them as backline.  I have played through worse.  A Vent sounds good out of that 15” Black Widow and horn in that big box. 
 

An example.  https://reverb.com/item/71629980-peavey-kb300-bw-300-watt-1x15-keyboard-amplification-system-with-horn-1980s-black

[JoJoB3]

Just now, CEB said:

You can buy an old Peavey KB300.  Those things were practically indestructible.   But they are heavy as f***.   I have had them as backline.  I have played through worse.  A Vent sounds good out of that 15” Black Widow and horn in that big box. 

What he said ☝️ (and likely found between 'just get it out of here' to $150.00)

[KuruPrionz]

14 minutes ago, CEB said:

You can buy an old Peavey KB300.  Those things were practically indestructible.   But they are heavy as f***.   I have had them as backline.  I have played through worse.  A Vent sounds good out of that 15” Black Widow and horn in that big box. 
 

An example.  https://reverb.com/item/71629980-peavey-kb300-bw-300-watt-1x15-keyboard-amplification-system-with-horn-1980s-black

I've used those for guitar and bass. I agree with "indestructible" and heavy. Clubs should buy one and bolt it to the stage floor. 

[Phil Aiken]

I'm quite curious about the new Fender FRFR12 for use with keys.  Basically just a powered speaker, but I prefer the form factor to my QSC K10.2

[CEB]

18 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

I've used those for guitar and bass. I agree with "indestructible" and heavy. Clubs should buy one and bolt it to the stage floor. 

There is a house band gig I do where a group of us play behind whoever the guest talent is.  I use a house owned 80’s KB 300.  They sound way better than Roland KCs.  Other than weight the other disadvantage is the only way out to front house is a 1/4” line out.  Later models may have XLR outputs, I don’t know.  They use the 1/4 out and it works fine.  

[Mills Dude]

52 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

I've used those for guitar and bass. I agree with "indestructible" and heavy. Clubs should buy one and bolt it to the stage floor. 

Ah my old KB300 went everywhere with me in the 80's and 90's, definitely indestructible, bolt on a set of casters and its good to go.  In college I would wheel that thing across campus with my DW6000 in original box to rehearsals.  It could even double as a stand, just put 2 books on either side of the handle. 

 

I never did swap out the speaker for a BW, for me it was just fine. Even used to plug my Strat in with a Tube Screamer or ProCo Rat for those tunes when we needed a second guitar to play some crunch, pop up the gain, tweak the eq and it sounded like most Peavy 80s vintage solid state guitar amps, well almost!

 

Did it sound great?  No way!  But it sounded better than the KC350 that I replaced it with.  The only benefit of the KC was the stereo mixer with line out.

[Reezekeys]

The KB300 - that's the one with the non-defeatable limiter? I remember those. I'd rather carry a mixer and two QSCs, any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[CEB]

LOL. Yes sir.  That is why it’s indestructible.  

[Docbop]

22 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

The KB300 - that's the one with the non-defeatable limiter? I remember those. I'd rather carry a mixer and two QSCs, any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

The Peavey probably weighs more than the mixer and two QSCs.   Those old Peaveys were built like tanks. 

[16251]

I think I owned the KB100, and Roland Cubes and KCs, and a few other co's but here a blast from the past circa 1981. I owned a Fender Rhodes with Satellite speakers but it wasn't a great piano and sold it. I bought a new Rhodes and had Chuck Monty Dyno mods including a pre-amp he sold. I also bought a power supply that would work with the Rhodes Stereo Vibrato. (I never did find the unit and sold power supply.)   It's the speaker set up that I was going to get Stereo sound.  Two Heil white fiberglass cabs with a separate power amp and mixer. I also had a Morley echo pedal among other pedals.  Young and stupid.

[Reezekeys]

 Since we're going down memory lane, here's my story. In my teens I started with this amp, which I built from a kit. The HEATHKIT TA-38!

 

 

After that I continued with more solder-it-yourself gear: first, a Dynaco PAT-4 (yes, a home stereo preamp!) mated to a Southwest Technical Product Corporation "Tiger" power amp...

 

  + 

 

...later updating to the same company's "Tigersaurus" amp... a 250 watt beast with a power transformer that weighed what my two current speakers weigh, maybe more:

 

 

The Tigers fed an old Fender Bassman cab I put two JBL 12s into. Yea I got looks and comments from a lot of people!

 

At various points I had a Roland Cube, also a Carver power amp running bridged into a JBL PA cab with a 15" & horn. I forget what came first; maybe I used both setups through the same time period (too many brain cells ago!). I fed the Carver from a TOA D4 mixer:

 

 

I entered the modern age in 1999 with two Mackie SRM-450s. I had the "Session" expansion board in my Roland XP50 keyboard, my first true stereo-sampled acoustic piano so of course I had to have stereo. I've been a PPA person ever since, and never used a mixer since either. I hauled those two 51-lb guys to every gig I did for the next ten years. In 2009 I replaced them with QSC K8s, and last year I got Alto TX308s for quieter gigs. 51 lbs to 27 lbs to 12 lbs. I think the laws of physics might mean my quest for lighter speakers ends with the Altos, which is fine - when those start feeling too heavy for me to carry I know it'll be time to hang it up!

[octa]

I really dig the sound of my motion sound kp-610s but it falls apart often. Currently it has 3 issues. (1. Tweeter aka driver’s screws and particle board don’t get along. Tweeter hangin’ by a thread. 2. Another potentiometer is loose/wobbly/noisy, replaced one recently. 3. Exposed wood on bottom corner, duct taped.) You kinda have to be patient w/ customer service but they’ve been responsive. Think I’m gonna switch back to QSC K12’s when my gear gets stuffed in a van and use the motion sound for local gigs. I’ve had K12’s 10 or so years and they’re mighty tough and sound good. 

[Noah DC]

18 hours ago, The Piano Man said:

Disclaimer: I am not a pro paintshopper. 😂

 

Also, I’d want eq on each channel, but you get the idea! 

For what it’s worth, this is almost literally what a Motion Sound KP-612 amp is. It’s a box that contains two full-range 12-inch speakers with a multi-channel mixer, EQ, stereo XLR outs, XLR in, 1/4” out, and bass port output for a sub. And I can confirm that’s exactly what it sounds like. 

[Docbop]

Quilter amps same company as QSC has had a series of small guitar and bass amp heads called Super Blocks.   It would be great if they would make one that is stereo for keyboards. 

[drawback]

I'm also an amp guy. Throughout the years (decades) I've owned Kenwood, Kustom, GK, Wire, Peavey, Traynor, Motion Sound, Roland, Spacestation, and bought & sold a few PPAs along the way. I wish Roland would put out one more true stereo KB amp between the KC-220 and the 990 with two eights.

[wineandkeyz]

I'm an amp guy, too (when I'm not using IEMs). Like @drawback, I've owned a number of different brands over the years and I've tried the mixer/powered speakers route. But I keep coming back to my Traynor K4 (now discontinued), which to me has the best combination of sound, features, convenience, and versatility in one package.

[DroptopBroham]

The new Roland KC's are the bee's knees. The 400 and 600 sound great. Like @drawback, I'd like to see a smaller stereo amp than the 990 but something with 300watts and 2 - 10" speakers I think would be ideal. The Traynor K4 is a solid choice too but the new KC's sound better.

[Moonglow]

On 11/26/2023 at 5:48 PM, JoJoB3 said:

I still think right now the best bang 4 the buck in keyboard amp format is the Behringer KXD15 at $400. 4 stereo Inputs, direct output (1/4in and xlr), 15in woof,  passable/meh fx if you want, built pretty damn well.
It's 600 peak though but loud enough for most. Pretty swiss army knifey, all-in-one and done. Connect 2 of them for true stereo. That or a mixer with powered speakers (12in min, 15in woof better) and added setup.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KXD15--behringer-ultratone-kxd15-600w-15-inch-keyboard-amp

I purchased one of these to use with my smaller/back-up rig for low-profile, plug-n-go type gigs. Nice not having to mess with all the extra stuff, kind of what makes keyboard amps cool. Reminds me of the early days of using my Fender Rhodes with a Twin Reverb. While it can’t compare to my powered speaker/mixer set-up, it’s fine for it’s intended purpose. I definitely agree with the bang for the buck thing. Biggest drawback is the weight.

[JoJoB3]

20 hours ago, Moonglow said:

I purchased one of these to use with my smaller/back-up rig for low-profile, plug-n-go type gigs. Nice not having to mess with all the extra stuff, kind of what makes keyboard amps cool. Reminds me of the early days of using my Fender Rhodes with a Twin Reverb. While it can’t compare to my powered speaker/mixer set-up, it’s fine for it’s intended purpose. I definitely agree with the bang for the buck thing. Biggest drawback is the weight.

Mmm, not that heavy for an amp really at 48lbs Sound is great, i/o is a haul and time saver.  If you dime it not so much as it's 600w peak but you shouldn't have to.
Much better than a Roland and KB300, those were nasal and heavier (still have the KB though!).

[stoken6]

I've always thought 15in+tweeter is a poor compromise for keys, as the midrange region is outside the sweet spot of both drivers.

 

I've used cheap-ish B wedge monitors in the past, and was pleasantly impressed by the sound, and the low weight. So feedback on the KXD is interesting. The only full-range amp/speaker I own is a 10in PA speaker rated at (old-school) 65 watts - rising to 100 if you add a passive cab! Wooden construction, sounds nice, indestructible, not-quite-loud-enough (115dB).

 

Cheers, Mike.

[The Real MC]

17 hours ago, stoken6 said:

I've always thought 15in+tweeter is a poor compromise for keys, as the midrange region is outside the sweet spot of both drivers.

In my 40 years of gigging, I never heard a cabinet with 15in plus tweeter that didn't have a void in mid frequencies.  Same with any cabinet that is polymer or constructed from anything other than birch plywood.  My current keyboard monitor is a QSC KW122 with 12in plus tweeter and I am very happy with that monitor.

[CEB]

Yes. All my serious Keyboard stage amplification rigs were 3-way passive cabs  with 15” bottom drivers.   For mids I’ve had both mid horns and mid cone drivers.  I usually favored the cone speakers because I didn’t need to throw very long and they sounded less harsh to my ears.  But it all could have been a self inflicted Jedi Mind Trick. 

[The Real MC]

On 11/26/2023 at 1:56 PM, The Piano Man said:

Does such a thing exist? It’s all subjective, of course, but I would love QSC or RCF to make a keyboard combo. Basically, take the K10 or K12.2 or whatever but repurpose it in keyboard amp format with a built in mixer accessible on the front panel (ie three or four channels with eq etc in easy reach of a keyboard player’s hands)

I prefer to use my own mixer.  I've heard too many combo amps with less than stellar mixers.
 

One exception are Barbetta keyboard amps, sadly no longer made.  Their amps had built-in mixers and a DP sounded really good through them.  Their Achilles Heel is a power IC that is no longer available with no direct substitute so if you play the amp too loud it will blow the IC and presto it's a doorstop.  I still have a Barbetta Sona 31 that I only use for low volume applications.  That thing even projects my Taurus bass pedals quite well.

 

I toyed with other combo amps over the years and frankly they sound like crap.

 

Last year I started looking into powered monitor for keyboards and I have been very happy with my QSC KW122 which sounds as good as the Barbetta and at louder volume.  I don't want built-in mixer or EQ, I prefer my own devices.  Only two inputs but that's all I need - one for my keyboard send, the other for the monitor send from the FOH mixer.  I want a separate channel for the keyboards so that I can balance the monitor mix against the FOH monitor send which has vocals, guitar, and other stuff.  The QSC is built with birch plywood, same materials used in the professional touring cabinets.  

 

When those aren't loud enough, I pull out my Bose 802s.  A pair of those with the companion Bose 802c processor and a good power amp can easily compete with a guitar player using a 100w Marshall stack.  If I'm playing LH bass, my Peavey 2x15 cabinets biamped with the 802s makes a very good stage amp.

[stoken6]

12 hours ago, CEB said:

Yes. All my serious Keyboard stage amplification rigs were 3-way passive cabs  with 15” bottom drivers.   For mids I’ve had both mid horns and mid cone drivers.  I usually favored the cone speakers because I didn’t need to throw very long and they sounded less harsh to my ears.  But it all could have been a self inflicted Jedi Mind Trick. 

Three-way's the charm. A midrange driver puts both crossover frequencies outside the sensitive zone of the ear. Heavy though.

12 hours ago, The Real MC said:

Bose 802s.  A pair of those with the companion Bose 802c processor and a good power amp

The 802s do sound nice, but they slurp amp power.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

On 11/27/2023 at 5:56 AM, The Piano Man said:

However, sometimes, I find myself using a Roland KC or Peavey KB because of convenience. I just wish they had more competition. 

 

Your thoughts? 

 

One thats over looked a Hartke KM60 Keyboard Amplifier (60 Watts, 1x10")

 

I think possibly discontinued now but i bought one around 5 years ago when i joined a band and my vintage amp karked it.

 

So to look proactive as a problem solver when i couldnt fix it I did a quick look on ebay and found one of these thru a distributer and thus had it by next practice.

 

Took a chance on it and was very happy. 

 

My only gripe is the name I aways forget how its spelt. I had to look up the name just now to spell it. 

 

Hartke.     H a r t k e

 

Just giving you an alternative that i never hear mentioned

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

One thats over looked a Hartke KM60 Keyboard Amplifier (60 Watts, 1x10")

I've got an *old* Hartke 2x10" bass amp with the alumin(i)um drivers. Sounds very nice. I remember I took my tiny Yamaha CBX-K1XG to the shop to audition it for keyboards!

 

Cheers, Mike.