Yamaha Montage M

[Motif88]

Since there are other threads outside of the original “Rumor”…it’s time to discuss the actual use of the Montage M.

 

I haven’t used a workstation in more than 5 years and had 3 versions of the Motif in the early 2000’s. Coming from the Roland PHA-50 action to the M8x has been no issue. In fact, the M8x replaced both an RD-2000 and Hydrasynth Deluxe. Other than the recent addition of the Hydrasynth, my setup has been mostly focused on software synths since 2017.

 

Initial M8x observations:

1. The GEX action is great - adjust the velocity curve to your liking.

2. The UI and sub display totally change what I remember about the Motif series. Loved the sounds, hated the OS. The Montage M is so much easier to navigate and get to parameters quickly while playing “live”

3. Much less menu and mouse diving across the board that includes my workstations (Kronos, Motif XS8, ES8 and Motif8) and my Logic Pro/Soft Synth/MIDI Master Keyboard setup

4. The existing performances drive inspiration and creation without endless soft synth choices and patches within. That being said, the ability to use any/all soft synths is fantastic but sometimes you get so caught up in the setup and options, the creativity dies.

5. Plenty of old Motif patches still exist. The good news is a saved all of my old patches/backups in case I miss 2001+

6. Still struggling with MIDI zone implementation on the Montage M. All of the existing videos and detailed documentation is specific to the previous gen Montage. Different OS, different menu options and clearly a different Remote DAW mechanism 

7. Hoping the Yamaha team can update the materials to reflect OS changes soon

8. Roland still does DAW integration and MIDI zones better. The Roland RD had red/green LED’s for internal/external zones. Montage M has blue/cyan - WTF? I need a pantone color chart to tell the difference in shades of blue. No way to quickly eyeball internal/external channels/faders.

9. Does Montage Connect work with the M series? It appears no, but some official indication would be nice.

 

Overall, I’m very happy that I made this purchase. It is engaging more than the dozens of software synths I own (Omnisphere & Keyscape excluded) have in years.

 

Cheers!

 

[miden]

sorry redundant question...hadn't realised OP had posted an answer elsewhere.

[TJ Cornish]

Firmware 1.20 released and supposedly the first version of the VST is going to be released today, though I haven't found a link yet.

[xp50player]

https://yamahasynth.com/learn/montage-m/blakes-take-expanded-softsynth-plugin-for-montage-m/

[Paul Woodward]

From Blakes take, I can't see any link with details about cost etc. and nothing on the net yet, but I am UK time.....

 

[Jose EB5AGV]

2 minutes ago, Paul Woodward said:

From Blakes take, I can't see any link with details about cost etc. and nothing on the net yet, but I am UK time.....

 

 

It seems only available for free for Montage M owners. Which was predictable 

[Paul Woodward]

Ah, I misread this bit as meaning the software wont cost the earth....

"Of course, the real benefit of the Expanded Softsynth Plugin for MONTAGE M is the considerable power it adds. You can open multiple instances in a DAW and drastically increase your music making potential. With modern computer systems the horsepower needed is completely within reach and won’t cost a fortune"

[CHarrell]

Yeah I wanna say non MMers are gonna have to wait til later this year for the VST to drop.

[CHarrell]

2 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

With modern computer systems the horsepower needed is completely within reach and won’t cost a fortun

 

Right here I believe he's referring to the system requirements of a computer to run ESP (8GB RAM). 

 

I admit, I was initially skeptical: why buy hardware sounds on a computer when you have access to what most likely be far more capable plugins and libraries? But as time has gone on, and I've scoured the Internet for all kinds of solutions (where am I gonna get my clav? Does it have the effects I need built in? If not, where am I gonna find those effects? etc.), having a reliable, fat bank of modern sounds (around 10 GB apparently), hardware-limited or no, with a reliable bank of what I'd presume is VRM effects.......it's an appealing thought.

[Mark Schmieder]

I didn't realize this thing already existed vs. being a rumor, so I didn't pay attention until today when Yamaha announced it at NAMM as a new product sporting a new AN-X engine alongside the FM-X engine and standard AWM2. Their demos sound nice. I didn't yet see fully detailed specs on the keybed action.

[sherry]

Now this is a game changer.  Might even consider dumping Korg Kronos for this.  Hardware at home, light performance controller and macbook for live use.  Wow.  One question as I'm someone that's never owned a Montage.  The performance screen where you touch and change performances/programs, is that in this software?  I know not for touch, but wonder if the performance screen is in the software and triggered by a midi controller.  Thanks.

[AnotherScott]

6 minutes ago, sherry said:

Hardware at home, light performance controller and macbook for live use.  

I do see the appeal in that, though it's almost like ownership of the Montage M is a $3500+ dongle for your live rig. 🙂 Though in a way, that's not so different from what I've said I had wished the Vox Continental and Grandstage were... if users could load (same-engine) Kronos programs into them... The bigger, heavier Kronos stays home, while you gig with a lighter board that just held your favorite gigging patches.

[TJ Cornish]

1 hour ago, sherry said:

Now this is a game changer.  Might even consider dumping Korg Kronos for this.  Hardware at home, light performance controller and macbook for live use.  Wow.  One question as I'm someone that's never owned a Montage.  The performance screen where you touch and change performances/programs, is that in this software?  I know not for touch, but wonder if the performance screen is in the software and triggered by a midi controller.  Thanks.

According to Moessieurs, Live Set Mode is not in this version yet, but is expected when the full version ships this summer.

[DeltaJockey]

Well, I'm sitting here playing my vst Montage! They seem to have done a tidy job on the first iteration. The software version is 1.00 build 120, and it behaves very well on my Mac. No operational bugs found so far. I find it has value in just being a Librarian/Stand alone Player. It's kind of weird scrolling though and playing the performances with no assistance from the hardware. The sounds are of course identical. But as I'm running it through the Montage M audio interface, I don't expect any audio differences. I've yet to try it with another controller and audio interface but it should perform well.

 

So if you own a Montage M, obtaining it from Yamaha's perspective is pretty straight forward, but to my dismay, Steinberg are in the picture, and I still don't find their process straight forward. You get a serial number bundled with your original purchase.

 

So after upgrading your firmware to 1.2, you also download the install instructions for ESP, which requires you to install the Steinberg download manager thingy.

(I uninstalled this many moons ago in disgust )

 

So far so good. You just enter your serial in here and the download is available. It's about 7.7GB. Installing the software is easy, but

the thing I'm not loving is the way the authorisation process has the Steinberg app and your web browser bouncing back and forth, and for me several passes before I got over the login error messages. (Nothing I did wrong)!

 

As expected for a first release, it seems moderately heavy on my Mac Studio resources, but it is fairly sonically chunky, especially with all those Montage arpeggiators and voices!

 

I still don't know how the licensing works when I want to use it on a laptop, and whether I have only one licence to transfer. That would be a pain. I would hope they allow the second install so you don't have to deactivate the home copy when away from the hardware Montage.

 

I guess the most interest will be in the performance of the vst. So far with my limited tryout, it performs just as well as the hardware. Selecting attributes on the large screen is nice, especially the performance list. The limited editing is smooth and responsive, so too are the realtime controls from the hardware. The rotaries and super knob movements are liquid smooth on the screen when using the hardware controls.

 

The utilities settings are very limited at this stage, but I'm guessing there'll never need to be as many parameters in the vst as the hardware anyway.

 

This is not a review, but my first experience with its use. If this is a taste of what's to come, then it'll be worth the wait, and I suspect worth the cost to folks who want to buy the stand alone software.👍

 

 

[jazzpiano88]

2 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

It's kind of weird scrolling though and playing the performances with no assistance from the hardware. The sounds are of course identical. But as I'm running it through the Montage M audio interface, I don't expect any audio differences. I've yet to try it with another controller and audio interface but it should perform well.

Are you saying you only used it as an editor and that the audio was still generated by the Montage M audio outputs?

 

I would be interested in how faithfully the vst generated audio from the computer matches the Montage’s hardware.  
 

[DeltaJockey]

1 minute ago, jazzpiano88 said:

Are you saying you only used it as an editor and that the audio was still generated by the Montage M audio outputs?

 

I would be interested in how faithfully the vst generated audio from the computer matches the Montage’s hardware.  
 

No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that because at this stage the editing is limited, just using it as a player vst without the hardware for all it's performances is still pretty neat. I said above that I hear no difference between the hardware sound and the software sound. I just happen to be using the Montage in my setup as my master controller, so I'm using the Montage USB audio. When using the vst, I have local off, so the Montage hardware engine is not sounding. I'm just using the keyboard controller. That's just the same as plugging in any old keyboard and any other audio interface. The sound is coming from the vst in the DAW. No Montage needed!

[DeltaJockey]

Just to be clear, as it is a confusing thing to describe...I turned off the Montage, and tried it with another controller and audio interface. That all worked well.

[jazzpiano88]

35 minutes ago, DeltaJockey said:

No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that because at this stage the editing is limited, just using it as a player vst without the hardware for all it's performances is still pretty neat. I said above that I hear no difference between the hardware sound and the software sound. I just happen to be using the Montage in my setup as my master controller, so I'm using the Montage USB audio. When using the vst, I have local off, so the Montage hardware engine is not sounding. I'm just using the keyboard controller. That's just the same as plugging in any old keyboard and any other audio interface. The sound is coming from the vst in the DAW. No Montage needed!

Got it.   If I’m reading you right, the Montage digital USB is generating your Montage M sound for comparison with the standalone vst audio.    

 

Are you using a good audio output interface on your Mac?    I think the acid test is comparing the Montage analog outputs to the standalone vst.    As you mention, one would expect the Montage USB digital reconstruction to sound similar (identical?) to the vst since the converters to analog are identical.  

[DeltaJockey]

11 minutes ago, jazzpiano88 said:

Got it.   If I’m reading you right, the Montage digital USB is generating your Montage M sound for comparison with the standalone vst audio.    

 

Are you using a good audio output interface on your Mac?    I think the acid test is comparing the Montage analog outputs to the standalone vst.    As you mention, one would expect the Montage USB digital reconstruction to sound similar (identical?) to the vst since the converters to analog are identical.  

Yes, I was first only using the Montage USB audio as if it was just a separate audio module, because my studio gear is routed to use the Montage as my main controller and the 4 audio outputs of the Montage to surround monitors. (I then routed the sound to a Presonus studio interface and controlled the vst with my Kawai MP7SE, just to prove the point of independence from the Montage hardware).

I prefer using the Montage audio interface as it is the best sound audio I have. When comparing the sound of the vst to the internal Montage sounds, I hear absolutely no difference. The sound of the vst via the Presonus, is marginally less quality, but is the same less quality if I route the internal Montage sound via that external Presonus interface.

 

I hope that clears up any of my ambiguities. I have to confess, my description was initially a bit rushed!

[DeltaJockey]

So just to eat humble pie on my rant about Steinberg. I read the updated news about their improvements recently. I'm sure many folk here may have put me straight on this.

It seems most of my concerns are historic. (other than my activation frustration). They have a similar policy to NI allowing 3 activations. This is quite acceptable to me. So laptop here I come

 

On a not so happy note, the word on the other Yamaha forums is that Yamaha will not be releasing a retail purchase only version for the foreseeable future. It will be only available to Montage M owners apparently. This will dampen interest in the detail for many people. I guess there's not a lot of reason now for me to provide much discovering discussion for other folks benefit. Maybe it's a herring to get people to purchase the hardware and then when they've sold enough, they'll do a general release? Who knows.

[Jose EB5AGV]

 

[GovernorSilver]

I'll listen to any Matt Johnson video, even if he's featuring something I don't plan to buy.

 

He seems to really, really like the action on this one.

[jazzpiano88]

I’d still be interested in comparing the vst audio quality versus the analog outputs of the Montage M HW.  Maybe live it’s good enough. 
 

Yamaha boasts: [PURE ANALOG CIRCUIT 2] The upgraded Pure Analog Circuit included in MONTAGE M reduces noise and improves the dynamic range, crosstalk, low-frequency phase, and distortion rate, resulting in clearer sound at all volumes. You’ll also find the sound has more detailed low-mids and presence.
 

It’s not clear how the vst models/generates the Montage Synth engine tones but it sounds like they’ve done a good job.  And then there is the vst audio interface D/A quality, which is as good as you want to pay for on your compute platform.  

[Stokely]

Argh.  I thought my days for keyboard GAS were pretty much done.  I really want that weighted one.  As I said in another thread, my instant reaction was that it's my favorite weighted action ever.  Now, that is quite a bold statement and I'd need to give it weeks at least to feel confident in that.   

62 pounds.....62 pounds...argh.    If I hadn't tried the weighted one, I'd target the 6 or 7.   But I did.

Honestly the main thing stopping me isn't the size or weight...I could make that happen though certainly it would add some annoyance to my shlep.   The main thing is that I've decided to go for broke on getting up on stage with guitar--finally!  40 years late!---and if I bring a guitar and modeling pedal, I don't really want to also bring two keyboards.  I've been getting on very well with "just" a Nord Stage 3 compact lately.  Sure, it's a bit limiting but load and setup are SOOO quick and easy.

If I used a workstation at home that's a big rationalization point.  But I don't...it would just be a controller, albeit a very good one.  And no interest at all in a VST, I am more than covered in that area.

But damn this thing looks great.  I've done probably 75 gigs with a Modx so I'm pretty familiar and comfortable with that OS, though I'm sure this has some differences.

[DeltaJockey]

2 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

I’d still be interested in comparing the vst audio quality versus the analog outputs of the Montage M HW.  Maybe live it’s good enough. 
 

Yamaha boasts: [PURE ANALOG CIRCUIT 2] The upgraded Pure Analog Circuit included in MONTAGE M reduces noise and improves the dynamic range, crosstalk, low-frequency phase, and distortion rate, resulting in clearer sound at all volumes. You’ll also find the sound has more detailed low-mids and presence.
 

It’s not clear how the vst models/generates the Montage Synth engine tones but it sounds like they’ve done a good job.  And then there is the vst audio interface D/A quality, which is as good as you want to pay for on your compute platform.  

Well, that's the thing. When using the vst with any hardware other than the Montage M, the sound quality is only going to be as good as the DAC hardware. This is also why one reason my initial comparison was using the Montage audio itself. But one of the attractions of having the vst is so you don't have to have the Montage with you, So there in lies the premise that the vst potentially may not sound as good as the original. But it will sound as good as your other vst's. When out and about, you're not going to carrying the the best studio hardware with you, but at the same time, you're probably not going to be in a position to be nit picking the audio either. I've always said I'd love Yamaha to produce a separate USB audio interface module with the same kit that's in the Montage, that would be the icing on the cake for having great sound without having a Montage.

[Jose EB5AGV]

2 hours ago, Stokely said:

Argh.  I thought my days for keyboard GAS were pretty much done.  I really want that weighted one.  As I said in another thread, my instant reaction was that it's my favorite weighted action ever.  Now, that is quite a bold statement and I'd need to give it weeks at least to feel confident in that.   

62 pounds.....62 pounds...argh.    If I hadn't tried the weighted one, I'd target the 6 or 7.   But I did.

Honestly the main thing stopping me isn't the size or weight...I could make that happen though certainly it would add some annoyance to my shlep.   The main thing is that I've decided to go for broke on getting up on stage with guitar--finally!  40 years late!---and if I bring a guitar and modeling pedal, I don't really want to also bring two keyboards.  I've been getting on very well with "just" a Nord Stage 3 compact lately.  Sure, it's a bit limiting but load and setup are SOOO quick and easy.

If I used a workstation at home that's a big rationalization point.  But I don't...it would just be a controller, albeit a very good one.  And no interest at all in a VST, I am more than covered in that area.

But damn this thing looks great.  I've done probably 75 gigs with a Modx so I'm pretty familiar and comfortable with that OS, though I'm sure this has some differences.

 

I am also under a keyboard GAS crisis... I am thinking on having an M8x in the studio and then using the MODX6+ along the ESP on stage. Or perhaps just a generic controller (which I also have, as the NI Kontrol S61 MkII or the Arturia Keylab 61 MkII). What I am not going to do is move the beast. It would stay at home, as is the Kawai VPC1

 

To make things worse, GAS-wise, I am selling quite a bit of my other hobby (amateur radio and electronics) excess gear, and raising the needed money would not be hard. Oh my! 😅

[jazzpiano88]

2 hours ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

I am also under a keyboard GAS crisis... I am thinking on having an M8x in the studio and then using the MODX6+ along the ESP on stage. Or perhaps just a generic controller (which I also have, as the NI Kontrol S61 MkII or the Arturia Keylab 61 MkII). What I am not going to do is move the beast. It would stay at home, as is the Kawai VPC1

 

To make things worse, GAS-wise, I am selling quite a bit of my other hobby (amateur radio and electronics) excess gear, and raising the needed money would not be hard. Oh my! 😅

 

Same here, I'm having an intense bout of GAS although I haven't acted on it.   I've got the original Montage8 but this M8x is almost too much to resist.   I've never gigged with the Montage8 so I'm thinking of just keeping it as a time capsule.

 

I also have your other hobby (amateur radio) that is tugging at me to get some antennas working at my new locale.   It's a curse!   Radio, Music, Photography, not enough time!

[DeltaJockey]

5 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

 

Same here, I'm having an intense bout of GAS although I haven't acted on it.   I've got the original Montage8 but this M8x is almost too much to resist.   I've never gigged with the Montage8 so I'm thinking of just keeping it as a time capsule.

 

I also have your other hobby (amateur radio) that is tugging at me to get some antennas working at my new locale.   It's a curse!   Radio, Music, Photography, not enough time!

Yeah, I often feel the same, just too many interests to fit in to my life. And I'm lucky to be retired now! and still don't spend as much time with my music as I'd like.

I often wonder how I ever fit work in before I retired, with all the interests I have.

 

Having sold my Montage8 for the M8x, I don't think you're too far behind with the Montage8. It's still a fine instrument! I just love the Montage build quality.

Sadly, I had to sell my 8 to help fund the M8x. I bought the M8x for the GEX action and the improved audio, the ANx is a bonus, but I was able to do most of what the M8x can do on the older 8. I guess as time goes on I'll learn to leverage the extra functionality from the M8x. I'll never be an expert on them, just don't have the time!