Synths that haven't made it to software yet...?

[David Emm]

I love my gear, but I'm feeling my own version of Synth Fatigue. Even far reaches like the Solovox have been covered. You can't re-do the D-50 (proprietary samples), case closed. (I love mine.) We're covered up in Moogs and ARPs, with Oberheim coming up fast on the outside. Modulars abound, both as platforms and singles like the Korg PS-3300.

 

There are a few that reside in a grey area. I'd lightly kill to have a software Novation SuperNova 48-voice, hell yeah, but would it be kosher with Novation? That was one superior synth. I'd even settle for just the 6-voice Nova. The company hasn't offered software versions since their KS release. A good team-up with the right house could make it happen.

 

E-mu Morpheus, anyone? Its an unrecognized dream synth. Maybe not, because its real strength was being able to sweep through numerous complex filtering options with a pedal. It was a primo soloing instrument. Nothing had spoken with such a liquid voice before. Would enough people wrestle with that as a softsynth to make it fly? An upgrade with MPE reception would shred.

 

The Yamaha FS1R, that inscrutable legend. To me, it feels like the ideal partner for a Morpheus. The vocal movements of Formant Shaping Synthesis are real ear-grabbers, far beyond FM alone. It all but demands an editor. Programming it through the stingy display is a doorway to madness. Still, listen to some YouTube demos. The same issue exists with the E-mu: would it sell in profitable numbers or just be a novelty for aficionados?

 

The Technics SX-WSA1? That was a very capable 64-voice (!) physical modeling synth, unlike anything else at the time. It featured 300+ drivers that emulated acoustic instruments. I got to play one and it was gorgeous, eerie fun. I have Chromaphone, but I'd lean in closely if a soft-SX appeared. Another natural candidate for MPE.   

 

The Crumar GDS? Or its lesser cousin, the Synergy? Not likely, as current additive synths put them in the garage and slam the door.

 

The Hartmann Neuron? "Neural networks" whaa? Very few, including me, knew what to make of the hardware, so a software version would surely sink as well.   

 

Got any other favorites? What can we request that isn't already in the rack?

[mate stubb]

Rhodes Chroma. I only know of a one off project that is not commercially available.

[felis]

Andromeda and John Bowen Solaris come to mind.

[timwat]

Yamaha VP1?

[o0Ampy0o]

I know there is the official Roland software version on the rolandcloud. Has anyone else done a JD800? Could anyone else do one or has Roland locked that down?

[AROIOS]

3 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

I know there is the official Roland software version on the rolandcloud. Has anyone else done a JD800? Could anyone else do one or has Roland locked that down?

Unless specifically licensed, romplers are locked in their original brands by nature.

 

Personally, I'd love to see Korg 01/W ported to a plugin.

[Paul Woodward]

37 minutes ago, AROIOS said:

Unless specifically licensed, romplers are locked in their original brands by nature.

 

Personally, I'd love to see Korg 01/W ported to a plugin.

With Triton (and extreme) and M1 available was the 01\W different enough to warrant a software version. I recall a lot of similar sounding boards from that era, T1, TR, N364, X5 etc. 

[Jim Alfredson]

15 hours ago, felis said:

Andromeda and John Bowen Solaris come to mind.

The Andromeda is covered in IK Multimedia's Syntronik 2 though editability is limited.

[Radagast]

16 hours ago, David Emm said:

I love my gear, but I'm feeling my own version of Synth Fatigue. Even far reaches like the Solovox have been covered. You can't re-do the D-50 (proprietary samples), case closed. (I love mine.) We're covered up in Moogs and ARPs, with Oberheim coming up fast on the outside. Modulars abound, both as platforms and singles like the Korg PS-3300.

 

 

 

The Crumar GDS? Or its lesser cousin, the Synergy? Not likely, as current additive synths put them in the garage and slam the door.

 

 

Im not familiar with current additive synths.  Can they do FM?  The reason I ask is the GDS could do FM and additive.  Wendy Carlos talked about using FM to get complex attack sounds while using additive for the rest of a sound.  I’d like a software version of the GDS with a complete set of sounds Carlos created.

 

In addition, I would like a software version of the Technos Acxel synth from Canada.

[RABid]

17 hours ago, mate stubb said:

Rhodes Chroma. I only know of a one off project that is not commercially available.

This. Would love an accurate emulation, not just a sample set, with the original programs.

[AROIOS]

11 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

With Triton (and extreme) and M1 available was the 01\W different enough to warrant a software version. I recall a lot of similar sounding boards from that era, T1, TR, N364, X5 etc. 

For me it's about the ROM waveforms and waveshaping synthesis of the 01\W.

Unlike T1 series, 01/03 has a a lot of new sounds and better programming that wasn't inherited from M1/T1 lineage. On the other end, the Triton series moved pretty far away from 01/03. They were geared more towards beats-oriented genres (HipHop, Dance) and lacked most of the Pop-friendly sounds in 01/03.

The N and X series do have a lot of the 01/03 ROM samples. But they don't have waveshaping synthesis, and rumor has it that their samples were of lower quality.

01/W is one of those classic boards like the D-50 and XP-50 with a warm sound and a lot of distinctly unique sounds. The Pop players in Latin America still get them for the DynoPiano patch alone. Nostalgia certainly playing a big role in my fondness towards the board. But then it's no more than other folks' obsession with yet another emulation of (insert random synth from Moog, Sequential Circuits, Oberheim) 😃

[Tusker]

In the spirit of the Harmann Neuron you mentioned, wouldn't it be nice to see software versions of the Nonlinear Labs C15 and the Eagan Matrix engines.

 

Native Instruments offers a slightly less developed version of the C15 engine which they call Contour, but it's not quite the same.

[David Emm]

Good responses!

 

I was an 01Wfd acolyte. It had enough voices to make a big splash when contrasted with its predecessors. I think that inspired a lot of programmers, because the patch sets were quite creative. My carbon footprint is littered with Mirage and 01W floppies. When it began to falter like a greying dog, I Autosampled the hell out of it. I have a healthy Best-Of library. That includes personal sounds featuring a lot of programming sweat. I built a creditable piano by splitting & layering things just so.

 

For me, it was the perfect prog-like stage between the limited M1 and the massive, semi-dance-y Triton. My advice: drop a coupla hundred on Korg's software Triton. The UI is a win and you can hear the 01W ancestry. Its a bargain, coming as it does with ALL of the sound card sets for it. Part of it smells like the 90s; part of it is simply broad & useful.        

 

A proper Chroma seems doable; it was waveform-based, not sample-based. The Andromeda could be managed for similar reasons, although its a lot more parameter-dense. It might dismay anyone but the most unhinged modular-minded fans...

 

Didn't the Solaris end production a while back, although John recently released a firmware upgrade? I wonder if he'd take to the idea...

 

The JD-800 has the D-50's issue: copyrighted samples as its base, some of which felt clearly drawn from the D-50. Roland's Cloud sputters at times, but its your best bet for a proper JD-800. I have their D-50 and it delivers.

 

The Yamaha VP1 is such fantasy-ware, its hard to say. It was rather brute-force at the time, with a startling $30K tag. I found this excellent history, featuring useful tech explanations.

 

https://javelinart.com/yamaha-vp1.html

 

The Axcel is another dream synth. It could synthesize a sound based on your 'finger-painting' of a wave on the display. I'd say that was a negative, because the resolution of things is so much finer now. I also can't make claims of god-like finger precision, so I dunno if that's the most practical entry method.

 

The GDS fascinates us because Wendy Carlos and Klaus Schulze were notable players. How could you sit at one and not feel their creative aroma? Yes, it does both additive and FM, up to the limits of the time. 32 oscillators! 16-voice polyphony! Two double-density disk drives!! Find ample history here:

 

https://www.polynominal.com/Crumar-GDS/

 

I don't see the C15 or Eagan Matrix appearing as stand-alones. The former was configured from the start to be a total player's synth based on its custom hardware, so you'd need a comparable controller to fully engage it. The Eagan Matrix began in a similar manner, aiming for a new performance paradigm. Could you play either one passably by plugging a new Korg Keystage into your USB/Firewire interface, feeding a DAW? Aw hell, do I look like a genie to you? 🤨😛

 

[UnderGroundGr]

Kurzweil?

I would love to see Kawai K5000.

I have K1 plugin and it is fantastic(I have both K1 and K5000W).

[David Emm]

I don't think the company would want to commit the resources required to make that a reality. They seem fully vested in hardware. I also doubt you'll see their old expanders sampled. Those goods are already in the K series and generally upgraded, IIRC. You have a recent K, so you'd already know that one.

 

If you mean the legendary VA-1 that never happened, I'd go for it. It had 16 voices and was 4-part multitimbral. Another great piece of Synth History that never rose above the vaporware level. Hey Kurzweil, break out your code, new revenue stream over here!

[Jim Alfredson]

19 minutes ago, David Emm said:

If you mean the legendary VA-1 that never happened, I'd go for it. It had 16 voices and was 4-part multitimbral. Another great piece of Synth History that never rose above the vaporware level. Hey Kurzweil, break out your code, new revenue stream over here!

That technology is in the latest Kurzweils starting from the Forte, iirc.

[Radagast]

6 hours ago, David Emm said:

Good responses!

 

 

 

The Axcel is another dream synth. It could synthesize a sound based on your 'finger-painting' of a wave on the display. I'd say that was a negative, because the resolution of things is so much finer now. I also can't make claims of god-like finger precision, so I dunno if that's the most practical entry method.

 

The GDS fascinates us because Wendy Carlos and Klaus Schulze were notable players. How could you sit at one and not feel their creative aroma? Yes, it does both additive and FM, up to the limits of the time. 32 oscillators! 16-voice polyphony! Two double-density disk drives!! Find ample history here:

 

https://www.polynominal.com/Crumar-GDS/

 

 

The Acxel was a lot more than finger painting a waveform.  It could do additive synthesis/Resynthesis.  I heard one in person.  The person demonstrated a sound file that was several seconds of the bass guitar in the intro of “I’m Running” from Yes’ Big Generator album.  Holding down one note, it went through the bass guitar lick that included fret noise when Chris Squire slid across frets.  All done with additive synthesis.  The touch screen allowed for real time changes to various settings.  I was blown away.

[AnotherScott]

On 10/13/2023 at 8:49 PM, felis said:

Andromeda and John Bowen Solaris come to mind.

 

On 10/14/2023 at 4:49 PM, David Emm said:

Didn't the Solaris end production a while back, although John recently released a firmware upgrade? I wonder if he'd take to the idea...

 

Hardware is still in production, but most of a given run is sold prior to production, based on latest info at https://johnbowen.com/new/purchase/

 

And there is a software version... kind of. It still requires (pricey) custom hardware as well.  https://sonic-core.de/product/solaris-v5/

 

[Konnector]

Don't recall seeing a softie version of this.  

 

 

"In its day, the 101, as most of EMLs instruments, were marketed and sold to universities and other educational markets. But with the 4-oscillator architecture, multi-mode filter, duophonic voice capability and elaborate patch control, the EML-101 was one of the most flexible of all of the portable patch-synthesizers available at its time of manufacture. It has been used by Skinny Puppy, Tommy Mars, Frank Zappa, Weezer, Foreigner, etc."

[obxa]

Cherry Audio rumored to release the Chroma on  5/14/24

 

Love to see the Roland JD990 &   MKS70  as virtual. Haven't been too impressed with Roland Cloud stuff.  I've got enough mono synths.  I've always felt the PCM-hybrid sample  type stuff (e.g. Wavestation) actually sound better in software.

[CEB]

If there exists one XILS Lab will probably do one.  They have done Kobols and I believe they have done Polvoks.  

[J.F.N.]

 

I wonder what happened to Yamaha's partnership with Stanford for the physical modeling stuff, the VL/VP machines, it would have been FANTASTIC if they included this technology in one way or the other in their flagship machines, but also created some interesting software/plugins, I assume that would be Steinberg taking care of this. I have the EX5R which contains some flavours of this, and I will never sell that machine!

[kelp]

On 10/13/2023 at 7:19 PM, mate stubb said:

Rhodes Chroma. I only know of a one off project that is not commercially available.

 

[Synthaholic]

Crumar DS-2 - it was a unique sounding synth, and it would be nice to play one that didn't break.

 

Sequential Six-Trak - programming that thing would be so much easier on a screen. I used two on stage in the late 1980s and I could never get the hang of programming them, with the 2-digit display. Talk about cryptic!

[David Emm]

3 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

I wonder what happened to Yamaha's partnership with Stanford for the physical modeling stuff, the VL/VP machines, it would have been FANTASTIC if they included this technology in one way or the other in their flagship machines, but also created some interesting software/plugins, I assume that would be Steinberg taking care of this. I have the EX5R which contains some flavours of this, and I will never sell that machine!

 

David Sancious has been one of the VL's more serious adopters, although its not a plug-&-play device. He said he loved how expressive it was, but that after a while, the fatigue of playing it would set in. The idea is still being advanced a lot on Kickstarter. Woodwind controllers are a natural for synthesis, even though its not an approach you can take up casually. You can go all ambient and get away with a lot. Learning how to rip is a few pay grades up from there.

[jerrythek]

On 10/14/2023 at 2:44 PM, AROIOS said:

For me it's about the ROM waveforms and waveshaping synthesis of the 01\W.

Yes, this is the "special sauce" that the O1/W had that was not carried forward into the Triton and others. As just one reference, Roger Hodgson of Supertramp told me that the O1/W was his favorite synth to recreate his Wurlitzer piano sound before larger sample libraries and modeling came along, and nothing else that Korg made could get the same vibe/character that it had.

[YashN]

On 10/14/2023 at 6:06 PM, Jim Alfredson said:

That technology is in the latest Kurzweils starting from the Forte, iirc.

Starting from PC3 actually. Not everything VA-1 has been ported over, Dave would be able to give more details, but a lot of the important things like the improved Ladder filter, anti-aliased oscillator and other blocks. And they managed to give us these things with up to 32 layers of Cascade and Dynamic Edit too.

 

The integration of those within the rest of V.A.S.T. and in a workstation like a PC3 line or Forte or PC4/K2700 and soon to be K2061/K2088 is fantastic enough not to have to lust after a VA-1 IMO.

 

Incidentally, seeing the start of this thread, one of the first things I created was emulations of my D-10 which also does Linear Arithmetic Synthesis (the little brother o the D-50 although it's not an exact match) on my then new Kurzweil K2000.

 

I wasn't held up on the actual D-10 ROM samples: there's no need for that when you have far better PCM samples to play with on a Kurzweil and far more ways of processing those in real-time, and also excellent filter implementations for the Synthesis part of the Samples + Synthesis engine.

 

Results: the two reproductions I did sounded way better on Kurzweil.

 

Personally, I'd rather re-create most architectures in the Kurzweil rather than use software these days.

[jerrythek]

On the Korg front, they've done the Prophecy, now it's time for the Z1.

 

There are many fans of the Yamaha EX5 and especially its FDSP technology. How about a recreation of one of their combo organs like the YC-45? I don't think it is available within their reface model, is it?

 

I'm sure some others will come to mind, I'll post again when my synapses are firing fully.

 

Jerry

[YashN]

3 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

 

I wonder what happened to Yamaha's partnership with Stanford for the physical modeling stuff, the VL/VP machines, it would have been FANTASTIC if they included this technology in one way or the other in their flagship machines, but also created some interesting software/plugins, I assume that would be Steinberg taking care of this. I have the EX5R which contains some flavours of this, and I will never sell that machine!

VL-1 is one of a kind. The Anyma Phi & Omega synths might be interesting along this vein but I doubt they are as advanced. Any patents have expired by now for the Stanford/Yamaha kind. They were being licensed through Sondius XG. Korg also was a licensee, as some other companies - Seer Systems by Dave Smith too I believe.

 

Software-wise, I heard good things about SWAM, Pianoteq for classical sounds but to me, the more interesting outputs of the original VL1 and VP1 were the Syncoustic sounds. It is not just the tone generation, it is the expressiveness that is a big draw for me, as is the Uncanny Valley effect of hearing what is definitely an Instrument that has Acoustic Expressiveness, but one that clearly doesn't exist.

 

I'd love to see Yamaha make new VL1s or new VP1, especially since the latter are unobtainium: there are probably less than 20 worldwide is what I've read.

[Michael Wright]

26 minutes ago, jerrythek said:

Yes, this is the "special sauce" that the O1/W had that was not carried forward into the Triton and others. As just one reference, Roger Hodgson of Supertramp told me that the O1/W was his favorite synth to recreate his Wurlitzer piano sound before larger sample libraries and modeling came along, and nothing else that Korg made could get the same vibe/character that it had.

I agree . I love my 01w.  I have had several,  and had my present one all cleaned and an LED screen put in it.  I think it's a great synth.